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Message started by och on 10/04/16 at 08:25:23

Title: Better battery?
Post by och on 10/04/16 at 08:25:23

I was wondering if there is a better battery that can be installed into our bikes. The factory battery is a liquid battery with a breather tube - those are really antiquated. Looking for something more modern, perhaps with more punch and more charge?

Title: Re: Better battery?
Post by stewmills on 10/04/16 at 08:38:47

I have an AGM (absorbed glass mat) battery. Comparable price to wet cell batteries if you shop right. Sealed, no maintenance, no tube. Lasted me about 3.5 years so far. Downside, unlike traditional wet cell batteries, is that when it dies, it dies with little to no warning. There are lithium batteries for close to twice the price. Light, but some say they don't have a good life span.

AGM versus traditional.

Advantages

Spill-proof through acid encapsulation in matting technology
High specific power, low internal resistance, responsive to load
Up to 5 times faster charge than with flooded technology
Better cycle life than with flooded systems
Water retention (oxygen and hydrogen combine to produce water)
Vibration resistance due to sandwich construction
Stands up well to cold temperature
Less prone to sulfation if not regularly topping charged

Limitations
Higher manufacturing cost than flooded (but cheaper than gel)
Sensitive to overcharging (gel has tighter tolerances than AGM)
Capacity has gradual decline (gel has a performance dome)
Low specific energy
Must be stored in charged condition (less critical than flooded)
Not environmentally friendly (has less electrolyte and lead than flooded)

Title: Re: Better battery?
Post by Dave on 10/04/16 at 08:43:28

I don't use wet cell batteries anymore.....I buy a good AGM battery when I have time to choose......sometimes they die in very inconvenient place and you have to get what you can. (I had a friend riding a bike home and was several states away and his charging system died.......he had to buy a car battery and strap it to his luggage rack so he could make it home without a charging circuit)

Try to get one made in the US or Japan for the most consistent quality.........

Some discussion on Li-Ion batteries.

http://www.bikebandit.com/blog/post/tough-questions-answered-are-lithium-iron-batteries-really-better-than-lead-acid?roi=echo3-38052729351-37878092-9694315220351484adc4477cc5710af7&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=BBNews&utm_source=Fri_0100216_BBNews&utm_content=tqa_lithium_vs_lead_acid

Title: Re: Better battery?
Post by och on 10/04/16 at 08:56:43

I see the biggest draw back of Li-Ion seems to be that they require specific charger. Don't really want to mess with the charging system of my bike, so I'll just go with AGM.

Title: Re: Better battery?
Post by Dave on 10/04/16 at 09:15:07

4C404B230 wrote:

I see the biggest draw back of Li-Ion seems to be that they require specific charger. Don't really want to mess with the charging system of my bike, so I'll just go with AGM.

The Li-Ion batteries don't require you to do anything with the bike - only a charger that you plug into the wall needs to be special. I have an Earth-X Li-Ion battery in my bike....it hasn't been charged in 4 years, and you aren't supposed to connect them to a battery maintainer........they don't lose a charge from sitting for a year or more. But - if you do something stupid and run them flat by leaving the key on - they are ruined.

Title: Re: Better battery?
Post by och on 10/04/16 at 09:16:59

152E2334252932342F272A35460 wrote:

[quote author=4C404B230 link=1475594724/0#3 date=1475596603]I see the biggest draw back of Li-Ion seems to be that they require specific charger. Don't really want to mess with the charging system of my bike, so I'll just go with AGM.

I have an Earth-X Li-Ion battery in my bike....it hasn't been charged in 4 years, and you aren't supposed to connect them to a battery maintainer........they don't lose a charge from sitting for a year or more. But - if you do something stupid and run them flat by leaving the key on - they are ruined.[/quote]

But what about the charging system (generator) on the bike itself with Li-Ion batteries? Does that need to be replaced with something more suitable?

Title: Re: Better battery?
Post by ohiomoto on 10/04/16 at 09:28:33

Nope, as Dave said, NO changes needed to the bike. Just don't ever put them on a normal charger.

Title: Re: Better battery?
Post by och on 10/04/16 at 09:37:22

I once left the bike with the key ON overnight, and it depleted the stock battery. I put the bike in neutral and put booster right on the starter - the bike started and I rode it for an hour to charge the battery. Happened almost two month ago, it charged just fine and has been fine ever since. If something like this happens with the AGM or Li-Ion, and I still going to be able to recharge it just by riding the bike, or I'll have to take it out and charge it?

Title: Re: Better battery?
Post by verslagen1 on 10/04/16 at 10:10:34

From the earthx battery weby...

Quote:

This battery comes with advanced technology to protect it from over-discharge, the number one killer of all batteries. If your battery reads near 0 volts, the over-discharge feature has been activated, thus your battery must be charged. If you left your lights on, key on, have a faulty stator, or have a parasitic drain this can easily happen. Our BMS is designed to disconnect the flow of current in the event of over-discharge (internal disconnect switch is opened). Many smart chargers will not attempt to charge a low voltage battery (below 9V), including a Battery Tender Jr. If this happens, the easiest way to charge (and reset the internal switch) your EarthX battery is to use the lithium charger from Optimate (model TM-471 or TM-291) as it has the built-in feature that allows charging of batteries that are below 9V. With the Optimate, all you have to do is attach the charging cables to the battery (step 1) and then plug the unit into the wall (step 2). A second method using another brand smart charger is to connect the charger to the EarthX battery as normal, then put greater than 9 volts across the terminals which can be done by connecting a portable jump pack or connecting jumper cables from another battery (a battery of equal or lesser size). Once the charger sees voltage it begins to charge as normal. After 5-20 seconds you can remove the jump starter or jumper cables (being careful not to disconnect the charger). Recharging this battery from the depleted state can take from a couple hours to overnight.

Title: Re: Better battery?
Post by ero4444 on 10/05/16 at 14:43:35

if I was looking then I would consider this "homebuilt", 3D-printed case, supercapacitor array. Small and light, with limited starts, theoretically long life and super-fast charging.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111883927289?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

"12V super capacitor module 6x 350 farad caps 300A (engine starting, car audio)"

For now my existing Yusa? AGM battery is on a tender and it's been good for 4 years of light duty.

Title: Re: Better battery?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/05/16 at 15:01:55

I would never have even thought it was possible.

Title: Re: Better battery?
Post by gizzo on 10/05/16 at 16:44:15

What Dave said. My lithium one is 3+ years old and working fine. The charge circuit is built into the battery.

Title: Re: Better battery?
Post by ohiomoto on 10/05/16 at 17:49:44

I ordered a Antigravity AG-801 from Amazon for $140. We'll see how it goes.

Title: Re: Better battery?
Post by BSTON on 10/06/16 at 06:22:00

That's the battery that I have. So far I like it but I've only had it on the bike for a couple months.

One thing to note with this battery. The posts are different than the stock battery so the tabs on the positive terminal wire won't sit flush on the battery. I just ground the small tabs off of the connector to let it sit flush.

Title: Re: Better battery?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/06/16 at 06:34:55

IIRC, when I replaced my battery the positive lead would not go on and I used pliers to straighten out the tabs. Took seconds.

Title: Re: Better battery?
Post by och on 10/06/16 at 16:37:07

Ended up getting an AGM battery - YUASA YTX14AHL-BS

Title: Re: Better battery?
Post by och on 10/07/16 at 09:06:52

The battery came in, with a separate pack of electrolyte. I filled the electrolyte and it turns out I need to charge the battery. It says I need to wait for 1-2 hours before charging it - but I don't even have a charger. What if its a couple days before I charge it, will it be ok?

Title: Re: Better battery?
Post by och on 10/07/16 at 09:14:33

Also, the instruction said seal the battery, wait 1-2 hour and then charge, so I sealed it. Now I'm finding information on internet that the battery shouldn't have been sealed before first charge to allow for gassing. Did I ruin my battery?

Title: Re: Better battery?
Post by Dave on 10/07/16 at 10:22:51

Do what the instructions that came with the battery say - if they want it sealed....then seal it.

And you will need to charge the battery with a 1.5 - 2 amp charger before you put the battery in service. If you and your friends/family don't have one - time to go to get one!

Title: Re: Better battery?
Post by och on 10/07/16 at 10:27:41

Is it ok if I wait until Monday until I charge it?

Title: Re: Better battery?
Post by Dave on 10/07/16 at 10:47:21

616D660E0 wrote:

Is it ok if I wait until Monday until I charge it?

I don't know?

My only experience with not doing what I was told..ended up with a very short battery life. I put in the acid....and I didn't wait a couple hours and put the 1.5 amp charger as soon as I was done adding the acid (I should have read the directions better). The battery only lasted 2 weeks.

I took the battery back to the dealer for a warranty replacement (1 year warranty), and I did exactly what the direction said on the next battery....and it worked fine.

Title: Re: Better battery?
Post by jcstokes on 10/07/16 at 10:50:17

Don't get one called Motobatt, it won't go in a standard battery box.