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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Starter self engaged... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1474154459 Message started by Serowbot on 09/17/16 at 16:20:59 |
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Title: Starter self engaged... Post by Serowbot on 09/17/16 at 16:20:59 I started it,.. it was running for about 3 seconds, and the starter re-engaged (all by itself)... (a loud metallic clack, followed by the starter motor running) ... it ran for about 3 or 4 seconds with the engine already running then disengaged. YIKES!... I have heard a clank followed by a starter whir, 2 or 3 times in the past few weeks... but, this time the starter really ran... Sooooo... starter button sticky?,.. relay under seat?... or solenoid?... Any idears?... :-? PS// 'till I get it figured out, I have the pet shut off, and have disconnected the power to the starter... ..(I don't want it driving off without me)... ;D Please don't let it be the starter clutch... ....PLEASE... :-? |
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Title: Re: Starter self engaged... Post by oldNslow on 09/17/16 at 18:01:14 the starter relay gets its + 12V from the decomp controller - failing controller maybe? |
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Title: Re: Starter self engaged... Post by verslagen1 on 09/17/16 at 18:15:07 most likely decomp controller. but if you want to eliminate faulty button, put a 12v led light on the clutch safety either wire, to ground. use an led cause they don't draw much current. anytime you use the starter button, that light will light. |
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Title: Re: Starter self engaged... Post by Serowbot on 09/17/16 at 19:39:06 Ooooooohhhh!... Both ideas!,... so cool!... thanx!... I'm officially the idiot Moderator... Don't tell... :-X |
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Title: Re: Starter self engaged... Post by v-pilot on 09/18/16 at 18:38:50 We love ya anyway Bot :-* |
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Title: Re: Starter self engaged... Post by Serowbot on 09/20/16 at 13:17:41 66585955475B5A340 wrote:
312235342B2620222976470 wrote:
Considering a temporary bypass of the de-comp,... but... How would a failing de-comp cause the starter to engage?... (wouldn't it have to receive juice from the starter button?)... Just askin',.. hope I'm wrong really... :-? |
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Title: Re: Starter self engaged... Post by youzguyz on 09/20/16 at 13:25:18 Starter does not get juice until dcomp controller says it can. Which is why you hear the "CLACK" of the dcomp solenoid before the starter starts starting. |
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Title: Re: Starter self engaged... Post by youzguyz on 09/20/16 at 13:37:15 Clymers shows how to test the dcomp controller on page 245. But, you have an intermittent issue with the dcomp starting the complete cycle on it's own. Do you remember if the clutch was pulled in at the time it acted goofy? If so, the starter switch is acting like it is pushed, when it ain't. OR, you have something else that is putting voltage on that line. |
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Title: Re: Starter self engaged... Post by Serowbot on 09/20/16 at 14:19:23 That's more what I was thinking... (dcomp wouldn't trigger the starter without juice from the starter button,... and starter relay sticking wouldn't trigger the dcomp, only the starter)... Clutch cut-out has been bypassed for years... So,.. I just took the starter switch apart, and cleaned the contacts. Tested it with the starter hot disconnected, and it seems to trigger the dcomp and starter relay consistently. I put it all back together, and I guess I'll just have to ride it for while. ...(carrying a 10mm just in case I have to disconnect the starter hot).. ;D ;) |
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Title: Re: Starter self engaged... Post by verslagen1 on 09/20/16 at 14:36:17 6375627F67727F64100 wrote:
It has happened at least twice. Middle of the night and the savage dreams of riding just like a dog dreaming of chasing squirrels. Maybe they had a flaky starter button... don't know. BUT, the decomp controller has power to it all the time. What I'd do is redo the power wire to the decomp and put it thru the ig switch. That branch does more than just power the decomp, I'll have to look at it later. |
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Title: Re: Starter self engaged... Post by Serowbot on 09/20/16 at 16:14:35 Hate the idea of my bike riding off without me... Tempted to go to a manual dcomp... |
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Title: Re: Starter self engaged... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/20/16 at 18:51:18 Standing behind the bike, I wanna say the second wire from the left, you put 12 volts to it and it cranks over, even if the key is in your pocket. Make sure nothing is accidentally doing it. I put a switch on the hot wire right next to it, and used a membrane switch from a dead dvd player. It's a very low amperage thing. Find out which wire will crank it, then be sure nothing is accidentally doing it. |
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Title: Re: Starter self engaged... Post by Kris01 on 09/20/16 at 19:39:53 41574D425F4D4142380 wrote:
Pg. 245 and 246 |
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Title: Re: Starter self engaged... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/22/16 at 09:24:40 My screen won't let me read the How to test the decompression controller. All I have to offer is what I posted. Mine, when still pretty new, would just Die, and no matter what I did, it would not spin over. After ten minutes or so, back in business. Never figured it out, but by putting the switch on the wire on the decompression controller I could make it go again. So I Know there is a wire that spins the starter and the current required to kick it is so minimal that a membrane switch, small enough to sit on the nail on my pinky will handle it. That tiny switch got used quite a few times and never failed. It was slipped into the finger of a rubber glove and tie wrapped up under the frame. There's a red wire, 16/18 gauge with 12 volts Always on it, right next to the controller. Could be your problem if it's laying over and rubbed a bit. |
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Title: Re: Starter self engaged... Post by verslagen1 on 09/22/16 at 14:56:55 Pretty good description of the safety system. I'm planning of removing the decomp controller. So, if you short 2 to 4 on the wiring harness, the starter button activates the starter directly w/out the decomp controller. http://www.savageriders.com/verslagen/Decomp/decomp-control-test.jpg |
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Title: Re: Starter self engaged... Post by Serowbot on 09/22/16 at 22:24:51 This, constant hot, to the dcomp/starter relay, is disconcerting to me... I'm following your lead, Versy... Also,.. considering an, on/off/on switch... on/dcomp bypassed, off/no juice, on/hot to relay through dcomp... (could actually be wired to the stock ignition switch)... off would be parked... dcomp bypassed would be normal running,.. and hot to relay through dcomp would be for TDC compression stoke, emergencies... ????... Bad side... sounds more complicated than stock... (I hate complicated) ;D ... better?... a good, simple, manual dcomp... I await my highjacked, Versy brain solution... ;D ;D ;D Must be simple enough for a muppet... :-? |
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Title: Re: Starter self engaged... Post by verslagen1 on 09/23/16 at 07:06:44 The only reason I can come with why that box is on all the time is the chips might be sensitive. |
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Title: Re: Starter self engaged... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/23/16 at 09:10:22 Bot, if you will find that wire I told you about and make sure nothing is hitting it with power, then you can put a switch in it. It's not hot when you are riding,only when starting. Flip it on, hit start, turn it off. No starter engagement. That switch doesn't have to be a big current flow switch. Just cut it leaving room to work, splice in a couple of wires and put a switch up under the frame. You flip it off and walk away with the key in it and nobody can fire up and ride away. If im wrong, remove the switch and patch the wire. You're back to square one. But I don't think I'm wrong. I made mine spin over by putting power to one of the wires. You either have an intermittent short, putting power to that wire or the decompression timer is having an intermittent internal problem. First place I would look is the always hot red wire running right next to the decompression timer. |
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Title: Re: Starter self engaged... Post by Serowbot on 09/30/16 at 15:01:41 Well, it wasn't the starter switch... I now have the dcomp bypassed... We'll see how that goes... :-? |
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Title: Re: Starter self engaged... Post by Serowbot on 10/01/16 at 15:21:52 A'righty then,.. dcomp bypassed and I'm still hearing random starter noise... What I'm hearing is that 2 second wind down sound after you release the starter button... except it's happening while the engine is running... ...(a couple of times,.. I've heard it while backing the bike into a parking space, in gear with clutch pulled, other times goin' forward or idling in neutral)... As a reminder,... I cleaned the starter button contacts, bypassed the dcomp... Now,... on the way home... I disconnected the starter hot wire, and rode 25 miles home... no noise... SOOOOO?... starter relay?... or could it be that fancy ratchity, starter torque limiter goin' funky?... Versy?.. Dave?... I'm not too proud to be told what to think... :-? |
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Title: Re: Starter self engaged... Post by verslagen1 on 10/01/16 at 15:41:41 4751465B43565B40340 wrote:
I'm not getting this sound... I release the button, all I hear is a prrrr... no cat getting it's tail pulled, and then let go. |
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Title: Re: Starter self engaged... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/01/16 at 16:01:59 While the hot wire is off the starter you don't know if something is firing it. You could put a light on the wire up by the handlebars and if it comes on, you know something is trying to fire the starter. You can put a switch in the hot wire to the solenoid, so it can't fire the starter. Did you check out the red wire that runs by the decompression timer? |
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Title: Re: Starter self engaged... Post by Serowbot on 10/01/16 at 16:05:23 Dcomp is bypassed... I guess I'll rig me a new idiot light... One that won't be triggered automatically by my wit... :-? |
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Title: Re: Starter self engaged... Post by youzguyz on 10/01/16 at 17:21:47 Stating the obvious.. You have an intermittent short that is either delivering 12 volts to the solenoid control winding OR the starter wire itself. Disconnecting the wire at the starter didn't really eliminate any possibility. Disconnect the starter wire AT the solenoid. If the starter runs again, then you have a short from the starter wire to a hot wire.. somewhere. Fortunately, it isn't a very long wire. If not, then you have a short delivering 12 volts to the solenoid control winding.. Good luck finding that.. |
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Title: Re: Starter self engaged... Post by Ruttly on 10/01/16 at 17:38:19 Bot , That light would never go out ! |
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