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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Carburetor Help... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1469490611 Message started by hockmanjosh on 07/25/16 at 16:50:10 |
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Title: Carburetor Help... Post by hockmanjosh on 07/25/16 at 16:50:10 2003 Savage. 6,500ft. elevation. HD Dyna exhaust, K&N cone filter, 52.5 pilot jet, 147.5 main jet. Trying to eliminate backfiring. I changed the 145 main jet to the 147.5, installed, tuned idle screw. Still got the backfire. I bought the 150 main jet, installed, tuned idle screw. Now it dies when I give it throttle. Help please.... When installing the 150 main jet, it never seems to fully tighten in, just keeps spinning. I also noticed that the jet can be pushed up into the carb, then it pushes itself back down, is it suppose to do this? Thanks for any advise!!! |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by KennyG on 07/25/16 at 16:58:36 Josh, IIRC there is a small brass washer that goes under the main jet. Check the old jet that you removed and make sure it is not stuck fast. Kenny G |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by Dave on 07/25/16 at 17:14:34 Kenny has it right....you have lost the washer. The brass tube that holds the main jet is called the Needle Jet, and it has a notch that keeps it from rotating when fully inserted. The washer under the main jet keeps the Needle jet from moving upward. For your elevation, a 52.5 idle jet is likely too big.....and......you will never be able to jet your bike to eliminate backfiring. You should jet your bike to run well. Backfiring is caused when you close the throttle completely and the slide drops the needle completely down into the Needle jet....the fuel flow is closed off from everything except the idle circuit. Making the Pilot Jet bigger can reduce some backfiring - but does that at the expense of fuel mileage and an engine that runs too rich. A better way to cut down on the backfire is to use your throttle hand to eliminate the condition that causes the backfire. Don't close the throttle completely as you shift gears, gently roll it off a little bit - but leave it open about 1/8th turn. Same thing when you are decelerating....open the throttle just enough to reduce the noise - but not so much that the bike accelerates. You can make the bike pretty civilized by just learning what to do with the throttle.....you have to be the "computer" and brains on this bike.....it is not fuel injected and a carb is very primitive in comparison. |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/25/16 at 17:15:00 When installing the 150 main jet, it never seems to fully tighten in, just keeps spinning. I also noticed that the jet can be pushed up into the carb, then it pushes itself back down, is it suppose to do this? I'm gonna start with a question. When you removed the original jet, it was tight and didn't pop in and out, right? You're sure of the answer, you just Really don't wanna hear it.. But, it's true. It's not supposed to be loose. There is a washer under the main jet. I don't know if leaving it out will allow the Jet to screw in, walk past the threads, spin, move in and out. |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by batman on 07/25/16 at 18:18:56 He never said anything about a jet needle spacer mod, and how many turns is his idle screw open? that idle jet sounds way to big for 6500 feet. |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by Gary_in_NJ on 07/26/16 at 10:55:31 Rather then try to jet the backfire away, just learn to love it...because unless you change the carb it's here to stay. |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by norm92de on 07/26/16 at 13:52:15 I must lead a charmed life. My bike never backfires and only sometimes gives a little poof on shutdown, it doesn't do that if I give it few seconds to cool a bit. All I did was adjust the idle and raise the needle .035" which is Mikuni's needle width. My elevation is 4000' and mostly warm. I do have the idle speed set fairly high to protect the cam but not over 1100 rpm, probably nearer 1000. Right now, in Summer, she starts without choke and is only a bit hesitant for the first half mile or so. :) |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/26/16 at 16:32:49 Mine growled, snarled and rumbled on downshift. It was often Loud on shutdown. I just Hope the one I am going to be riding will act the same. I really don't Wanna rejet, but I will. |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by batman on 07/26/16 at 16:34:16 Norm I'm not surprised, at 4000 and above the air is thin enough that the stock jets won't be making your bike run lean .the closer to sea level you are the more you're likely to need larger jets. |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by Savageman on 07/26/16 at 22:40:44 Ahem... Higher elevation means less air and it runs richer. You need to downjet for high elevation especially at 6500 feet. I would downjet both pilot and main jet by 1 even 2 sizes at that elevation. But if you go below 3500 feet it will be to lean again and crack snapple pop kaboom!. Check with Lancer he probably has a high altitude jet set. :-? |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by LANCER on 07/26/16 at 23:31:50 6D5F485F595B535F500B083E0 wrote:
Why are you selling your bike ? Or is it a spare ? If the jets in the JETSET are not adequate for you needs at altitude, then I can get other jets for that purpose. |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/27/16 at 11:02:05 I had similar trouble with my carb. When I tried to install my main jet, I pushed the needle jet up into the carb and rotated it past its notch. I could never get it to catch threads, and was constantly dropping the washer and having to fish it out of little crevices. I ended up removing the whole carb in order to get the needle jet properly seated. Did you try to install the main jet with the carb still on the bike? Did you put the washer back on? That needle jet has a little notch, and the carb body a tiny dowel. If it's not seated, it will probably turn till the cows come home and the main will never tighten. Could be a lack of washer. Could be just turning. If the washer's there, try taking the intake hose off and holding the needle jet with something until you can get it to seat. I guess you've caught some threads. You may have to remove the carb if you can't get a hold on it. Don't damage it. |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by norm92de on 07/27/16 at 12:53:01 Batman, I'm one of the lucky ones. The EPA adjusted my carb for me. 4000' is probably about optimum for a lean sea level bike. ;) |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by Kris01 on 07/27/16 at 16:29:14 685A4D5A5C5E565A550E0D3B0 wrote:
I've heard hearsay that the engine is jetted for around 5000' give or take. What do you guys around Denver run in the carb? |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by batman on 07/27/16 at 17:19:52 SO....LET'S GET THIS GUY IN THE BALL PARK! A 52.5 IS WAY TO LARGE FOR 6500FT GO BACKTO STOCK47.5 ? HOW MANY TURNS OPEN ?NO ANSWER! 1/2 ,IDLE JET TO BIG! 2 1/2 TO SMALL......NEEDLE JET 3 #4 WASHERS (WHY? HARLEY MUFFLER ) MAIN JET ...STOCK 145 (WITH BRASS WASHER ) NEW SPARK PLUG ,DRIVE IT! PULL PLUG BLACK ,SMALLER JET ,WHITE LARGER JET ,LIGHT TAN ,YOU GOT IT! AIR CLEANER ? NO INFO ! STOCK ,MAY MAKE IT RUN RICH,NOT A GOOD MATCH FOR HARLEY MUFFLER ,REPLACE WITH K&N SLIDE IN OR OLDFELLER HOME MADE,(IN THE TECH SECTION) ANY DROP IN JET SIZE SHOULD BE MADE ONE STEP AT A TIME HE'S AT6500 FT BUT A RUN DOWN THE MTN. CAN BRING HIM TO 4200 FT(32mi to Salt Lake City) |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by LANCER on 07/28/16 at 05:40:50 2F28242C2A26292D28342F470 wrote:
Are you clear on the adjusting and tuning procedures for the pilot, needle and main jet systems ? If not, then go to the "Tech Section" and review the several good write-ups on the subject. |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by hockmanjosh on 07/28/16 at 09:44:11 I found the washer. However, now it spaces too far and the main jet threads won't catch. Thanks for all of the jetting info, I will reduce to my elevation. I want to get it back together for now though. |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by Dave on 07/28/16 at 10:40:22 52555951575B54505549523A0 wrote:
Then you need to rotate the brass needle jet until it drops down into the carb body. There is a notch that needs to line up with a pin....and evidently you don't have yours lined up. |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by Savageman on 07/28/16 at 14:00:31 Somethings aren't adding up. Take pictures and post so I can see whats happening. |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/28/16 at 15:10:23 Compare the threads of the original jet to the new jet. Try threading the original jet back in, Using the washer. You will have an answer. How hard did you twist on the new jet screwing it in? Did it ever Feel hard to turn? |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by batman on 07/28/16 at 18:16:07 Make sure you have the right washer,it should be brass and thin enough to allow the threads of the jet to protrude. |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by hockmanjosh on 07/29/16 at 11:28:08 I took the top of the carb off, and seated the main jet sleeve. Main jet (147.5) and washer went on perfectly! Put it all back together, she started up first try. Ran it down the road a bit, when I gave it 1/2 - 3/4 throttle she started sputtering. Took back to the garage, now she won't turn over. Took the carb bowl, the main jet is still intact. WTF!?!?!? |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by verslagen1 on 07/29/16 at 11:39:13 Do you have the right air filter? some have a ledge that blocks the eyebrow port at the top of the intake. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1347609265/0 |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by batman on 07/29/16 at 11:42:38 HMJ, why take the top of the carb the main jet is in the bottom of the carb as is the pilot jet! go to Ron Ayers web site ,oem Suzuki motorcycle parts,your year, carb ,there is an exploded view that show your carb,and on the right part numbers and discriptions.read and learn.Still haven't told us what your running for an air filter!!!! I'm Batman not superman!no x-ray vision ,we need all your info . or we are running blind! |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by Dave on 07/29/16 at 11:45:42 What petcock do you have.....still the stock vacuum operated one? "Won't Turn Over"....what does that mean - the starter motor isn't working, or the bike won't start and run. :-? |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by hockmanjosh on 07/29/16 at 11:46:55 5E5D48515D5208043C0 wrote:
I had to open the because the sleeve wouldn't sit down into the chamber fully. It needed a slight tap from above. |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by hockmanjosh on 07/29/16 at 11:48:03 7E45485F4E42595F444C415E2D0 wrote:
I have a raptor petcock. The starter engages, but doesn't fire up and run. |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by hockmanjosh on 07/29/16 at 11:49:15 6D7E6968777A7C7E752A1B0 wrote:
K&N cone filter. Fits perfectly. |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by Dave on 07/29/16 at 11:56:43 You might want to try charging your battery. The voltage can drop low enough that the ignition doesn't provide spark - but the battery is still able to run the starter. This can occur when people take very short trips and the battery doesn't get enough of a charge to replenish the power used running the starter motor. |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by batman on 07/29/16 at 12:05:12 What sleeve ,do you mean the slide with the rubber diaphgram? If you do the slide needs to be clean ,(not even touched be your fingers) if dirty it could be hanging up .this would explain your bike not running for sh*t. |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by hockmanjosh on 07/29/16 at 12:12:12 2D2E3B222E217B774F0 wrote:
The sleeve that the needle runs down into. I did touch the needle. What should I clean it with? Wd-40? |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by Dave on 07/29/16 at 12:31:48 Just so we can keep things straight. The piece with the rubber diaphragm attached and moves up and down - is the "slide". The skinny tapered piece sticking out the bottom of the slide is the "needle" or "Jet Needle". The brass piece that the needle pokes in at the top, and the main jet screws into the bottom - is the "Needle Jet" The slide is what needs to be absolutely clean to prevent sticking. |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/29/16 at 12:35:59 Clean and dry, no fingerprints even. Yeah, sounds Krazee don't it? |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by cheapnewb24 on 07/29/16 at 12:41:13 Cool (or boring) fact: The slide will actually lube itself with gasoline. Don't worry about lube. Wipe it dry and spotless like they said. Avoid touching any part that contacts the walls of the carb. It's gotta slide up and down really freely. I personally can't say about fingerprints... But I can sure say mud/dirt will stick it. :D Ask me how I know. ::) I like to play with the slides before I take carbs off or disassemble them anyway. It's fun... :D, especially on that old Shadow I've got. The slides on that thing are right in your face. After removing the airbox, I set my finger at the bottom edge and bob it up and down. You're not gonna cause a problem that way (Well... uh... unless you go crazy and break something ::).). It's a way you can roughly test how the slide is doing. No promises, though. You can sure tell if one's stuck good anyway. And you can feel if there's any grit in there. Should be unbelievably smooth as butter. I wouldn't worry so much about the needle itself. It's gonna get sprayed hard with gas all the time. That's the thing that meters fuel, especially in the midrange. It's not really in the position to get stuck anyway. It's the big cylinder holding the needle that sticks-- the slide. |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/29/16 at 13:54:56 The slide should drop without hesitating anywhere. If you see it slow down or stop, it's sticking. When you open the throttle, vacuum lifts it. If it's sticking then it can slow down or even stop. The closer to WFO you are, the less vacuum you have, so, if it's sticking at the upper end of its travel then it's possible that the vacuum is too low to overcome the sticking and you simply won't get the last few MPH out of it. |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by hockmanjosh on 07/29/16 at 14:25:48 Called it quits for the day. Cleaned everything with carb cleaner, put it all back together. No go. Starter initiates, by the bike doesn't fire up, just keeps turning big over. |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by stewmills on 07/29/16 at 14:41:50 Sorry if this has been addressed, but have you tried a new spark plug? Spark plugs, even new ones, can and will fail at some point. I have had this happen with a new lawnmower plug. Iwas recently working on a chainsaw and it would just die after it got warm...got a new plug and VROOOOOOOOM! Also, make sure your float is "floating" and all that jazz. Don't get tunnel vision chasing just the jets...you never know what else you may have bumped or overlooked while you're up in there. Luck! |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by batman on 07/29/16 at 15:38:10 You didn't put a gas filter in line with the new petcock did you? |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by Dave on 07/29/16 at 18:34:41 7E45485F4E42595F444C415E2D0 wrote:
Have you checked the battery voltage....or tried charging it.....it really can make a difference. |
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Title: Re: Carburetor Help... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/29/16 at 18:49:13 Did you put it on PRIME? Shoot ether at the intake? |
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