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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> remove crankcase cover without taking out enigne? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1468802647 Message started by Xenokilla on 07/17/16 at 17:44:07 |
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Title: remove crankcase cover without taking out enigne? Post by Xenokilla on 07/17/16 at 17:44:07 dropped the bike last summer and its had a small leak out of the bottom, my friend who has stands offered to give it a look for me. We figure its the crank case seal and would need to replace it. I have the manual and it says the first step is to remove the engine, and i'm wondering if its possible to get the cover off and change the gasket without pulling the engine? |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/17/16 at 17:52:42 Is the engine obviously distorted? If not, even if it IS, torque the foot peg bolts. The engine will drip if they are not tight. Wrench on each end. The bolts go Through the engine. |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by Xenokilla on 07/17/16 at 20:45:18 6D7274736E6958685860727E35070 wrote:
you sure you have the right thread?? |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/17/16 at 20:53:26 Dude, are you sure you know what you're asking? Check the foot peg mount bolts. Don't do anything else. Start there. You need to work on each end at the same time. I've only been here eleven years, I don't know much about these bikes. You Might have a bigger problem, but why Start with splitting the cases when just Tightening a couple of peg mount bolts will Prove if you have a big problem? But you can pretend I'm stupid.. it's okay.. |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by verslagen1 on 07/17/16 at 21:13:37 615C57565250555558390 wrote:
Which seal are you talking about? |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/17/16 at 22:10:01 dropped the bike last summer and its had a small leak out of the bottom, The only seal that I know of that Could be involved is the string between the case halves.. seems to me that the first step is Tightening the peg bolts. The engine can be torn down later if it doesn't work. O r, if it's a small leak, just add oil.. Or, split the cases,,, No way I would want summathat... |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/17/16 at 22:11:20 Or, maybe the description of the problem is not quite enough.. |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by Serowbot on 07/17/16 at 22:45:51 We may have a terminology problem... ...but,.. the bolts that attach the footpeg mounts, compress the engine case seals... They have been known to vibrate lose... Snug them up,.. and see if the leak succumbs to pressure... Sounds like engine interrogation... ;D |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by verslagen1 on 07/17/16 at 23:06:17 647B7D7A6760516151697B773C0E0 wrote:
I agree, but his response is questionable. |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by batman on 07/18/16 at 11:17:10 He saying,get the cover off ,not split the case ,I think he's talking side cover,"I dropped the bike" that doesn't sound like a center case leak to me, I think his friend said case leak instead of case to side cover leak ,and when he looked in the book it said to remove the engine. |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/18/16 at 11:46:59 That's probably a lot closer to what he was saying. I only pulled the clutch cover, but I Think either side Can be pulled, engine in. I've heard the timing cover side is Hard to get off because of the magnets.. My brain was stuck on Leak Bottom Crankcase seal,,, I should've focused on wondering if its possible to get the cover off and change the gasket without pulling the engine? |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by youzguyz on 07/18/16 at 13:20:04 14292223272520202D4C0 wrote:
There are two "covers". I don't think you said which side the oil is leaking from. Right side = clutch cover. Left side = stator cover. Both can be removed with the engine in the frame. Clutch cover: you will need to remove the left side foot peg, header, and exhaust. Stator cover: you will need to remove the right side foot peg. On the foot pegs, when I say "remove", I mean get them out of the way so you can easily get to the bolts that hold the covers on. |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/18/16 at 14:25:15 I think Xenokillah iz gone... Maybe I wuz Ray Cyst .. |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by stewmills on 07/18/16 at 14:35:13 322D2B2C31360737073F2D216A580 wrote:
Not nice JOG. Remember.... |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by verslagen1 on 07/18/16 at 14:40:02 Why can't we all get a bang, blow, suck, squeeze? |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/18/16 at 14:41:55 Both of those posts are frikken hilarious.. |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by Xenokilla on 07/18/16 at 17:04:21 Right, sooooo a little clarification? Picture of what cover i was talking about: http://i.imgur.com/THXJ2v0.jpg?1 gasket i think it is: http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/2002-suzuki-savage-650-ls650p/o/m147696#sch234698 part 11 we got the cover mostly off but stopped. we did take the long bolts out that held the pegs and the front of the engine on, but it looked like we'd need to take the kick stand and what not fully off to get the cover off. after putting it back together it leaks a bit less. are we going in the right direction? |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/18/16 at 17:22:09 Is that side cover damaged? Did you get it apart far enough to see if the gasket was torn? Did you manage to aply a thin film of sealer? |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by Xenokilla on 07/18/16 at 17:53:09 Is that side cover damaged? not visibility Did you get it apart far enough to see if the gasket was torn? no, we did not get the cover more then about half an inch off. Did you manage to aply a thin film of sealer no |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by verslagen1 on 07/18/16 at 20:01:16 there's magnets under the cover that make it a beotch to get off. the kickstand is held on by 1 bolt inside the frame. and you'll need to take off the pulley cover too. |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by batman on 07/18/16 at 20:10:40 Well.....your a little late seeking our advice,you should have tried tighting the through bolts that hold the pegs first,then the rest of the bolts holding the cover. but now you've moved the cover and may have torn the gasket ,you/ll have to get it off now and replace it after cleaning the surfaces,you may have to remove all the motor mounting bolts ,exhaust ,dive belt ,speedo cable, clutch cable, so you can lean the motor over to have room to pull the cover,or maybe just remove the side stand,don't know haven't been there. |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/18/16 at 20:26:34 I don't know about all that.. The clutch cover side has oil passages,but I don't know about this side. If it's safe, why not just get that 1/2" clearance and wipe a thin layer up inside? |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by Dave on 07/19/16 at 04:56:54 37282E2934330232023A28246F5D0 wrote:
Most likely....they only got the cover off 1/2" because they didn't do anything to loosen the clip that holds the wiring in place behind the pulley. There is only one way to fix this now, and that is to loosen the wiring harness, take the cover off, remove the old gasket and clean up everything, install a new gasket, and put it back together properly. |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by batman on 07/19/16 at 07:30:54 546F6275646873756E666B74070 wrote:
Most likely....they only got the cover off 1/2" because they didn't do anything to loosen the clip that holds the wiring in place behind the pulley. There is only one way to fix this now, and that is to loosen the wiring harness, take the cover off, remove the old gasket and clean up everything, install a new gasket, and put it back together properly.[/quote] And hope they put the washers on the right starter gear before reassembly! |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by guffikins on 07/19/16 at 10:15:28 Hi, I'm the friend with the garage. This seemed like a pretty straightforward question, I'm not sure why this forum is so hostile and assuming that we're incompetent. The bike was leaking oil, it seemed to be coming from behind the sprocket cover so we pulled it. After that, it was pretty obvious the crankcase cover was leaking. Since we knew we'd be replacing the gasket entirely at some point, we figured we'd open it up and see how difficult it was while we were there. Surprisingly, Dave, we noticed the wiring harness bolt and removed it and the wiring there was freed. We started late in the day, so once it was obvious that the gasket needed replacing and that we'd have to do anything more than just unbolt the cover, we buttoned it back up, added oil, rode it half an hour and checked the oil to make sure it would be fine for a while (it was), and ordered the gasket. Certainly not permanent, but good enough to ride until the part ships. So, Dave, you pointed out that we'd need to remove the cover, clean up, and replace the gasket. Since that's exactly what we set out to do in the first place, can you tell us if we need to remove the engine from the bike to do it? Batman, you just mentioned washers on the correct starting gears. Care to elaborate on that? Are these washers actually held on by the case? Is there any reason we'd remove them if not? Verslagan1 thanks for the mention of the magnets- that explains how the cover was moving on us. |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by Dave on 07/19/16 at 10:34:29 The cover can be removed with the engine in the frame.....both sides. You may have to remove the footpeg mounts, I am not sure about that as my bike hasn't had the stock peg mounts for years. When you remove the cover, often the washers for the starter gears fall off. Both washer go on the most forward of the two gears (one on the inside and one outside of the gear), the small gear nearest the starter does not get any washers. And those magnets.....sure makes it feel like somebody is pulling inward on the cover while you are pulling outward! This is not a hostile forum....but when you post a question and then let everyone guess for a day, creative minds begin to wander. |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by verslagen1 on 07/19/16 at 10:40:59 495B4848474547405D2E0 wrote:
To paraphrase an old joke... How do you piss off a lot of people trying to be helpful? Tell you tomorrow... |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by guffikins on 07/19/16 at 11:23:44 546F6275646873756E666B74070 wrote:
Thanks Dave, this is a perfect answer. |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by Xenokilla on 07/19/16 at 17:08:35 03383522333F242239313C23500 wrote:
yea sorry i posted, went to sleep, then couldn't post at work. |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by batman on 07/19/16 at 17:37:09 Gruffi, I mentioned the washers on the starter gear to be sure you wouldn't place them on the rear idler gear(as one tends to fall off when removeing the cover and fits on either of their shafts)they go on both sides of the anti kick back gear(the one with three rows of teeth) because if you had put it on the idler you could warp the cover, freeze the idler which would lock and maybe cook the starter motor.If you think that sounds ruff sorry,but I was really just trying to save you time ,money and heart ache,it didn't seem to me that you guys were that familiar with this particular bike.If you go to Ron Ayers web site ,pump in suk,your year,and s40 there are pictures of the entire bike (exploded) and should help in reassembly.(He is also a well known ,and reliable supplier of parts).I don't think we're hostile so much as honest,which at times may sound a bit brutal? |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by guffikins on 08/07/16 at 10:15:37 Thanks all for the help and advice! Hasn't gone as planned yet, unfortunately. We had no problems getting the cover off, getting the gasket pulled, putting the new one on and reassembling it (thanks for the washer advice). Unfortunately when we fired it up on the stand, we got a pretty spectacular rattle seemingly in the transmission- only happens with the clutch out and in gear. Everything appears to be in place and moving freely and appropriately (starts fine, no wear in the cover, etc). Is this likely to be a related problem, or have we found a new and exciting problem to fix? The link below is a set of pictures- if there's anything obvious we've screwed up in there, feel free to point it out. Thanks! http://imgur.com/a/boMYV |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by batman on 08/07/16 at 19:23:20 GRUFF ,looked at your pic's you did it right!....I have to ask if when the bike went down was it a hard drop? I think you should take the bike for a short ride ,does the noise/vibration occur when running at a constant speed ?or does it occur when shifting or right after shifting? or anything you can tells us (yea ,more info again ) |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by guffikins on 08/08/16 at 07:29:55 47445148444B111D250 wrote:
Glad I got that right- the advice was helpful, that washer definitely fell off. The drop wasn't a recent one, and the bike has been ridden since so I'm not sure how bad it was in the first place. We haven't had the bike out since, I don't love the vibration and it makes me a little nervous to run it for long while it's banging away. I'll put it all back together and take a video in the next couple days. As far as info, I can just tell you what we saw: -Bike starts fine and everything in there seems assembled correctly -While on the stand, bike bangs away at idle in gear -When the clutch is pulled or the bike is in N, it sounds fine -When it's banging away, the front sprocket and belt seem to vibrate a lot Thanks again! |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by youzguyz on 08/08/16 at 07:53:42 Check that front sprocket and see if it shifts on the shaft. That shaft has splines that engage the sprocket, and it has been known for the sprocket to get eaten up by the shaft if the nut isn't tight enough A thread that might shine light on the subject a bit: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1335739552/0 |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by batman on 08/08/16 at 12:15:56 Gruff,go with youzguyz's advice, that pulley needs to be torqued to 94 ftlbs or it will ruin the shaft (big job ,big money). these bikes vibrate a lot at idle,but the banging ? you might check the the compression release to make sure it isn't set to tight making the little release cam come in contact with the exhaust rocker arm after starting. A video with sound would be helpful. |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by verslagen1 on 08/08/16 at 12:20:05 2C2F3A232F207A764E0 wrote:
75 to 95 ft.lbs. |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by guffikins on 08/14/16 at 15:12:59 Took a bit, but here's the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY2re7dO0Hk |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by verslagen1 on 08/14/16 at 15:59:43 looks like you gotta pull that pulley. |
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Title: Re: remove crankcase cover without taking out enig Post by batman on 08/14/16 at 20:00:32 Vercy"s right you need to pull it and hope you don't have damage to the splines on the output shaft ,take another video so we can advice. |
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