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Message started by ralfyguy on 05/22/16 at 12:02:09

Title: Head Oil Leak, NOT the Plug
Post by ralfyguy on 05/22/16 at 12:02:09

After a 30 minute run today I discovered an oil leak on the right side in the cavity below the head cover in front of the speedo and clutch cable.
Shining a light in there you can see the shaft of one of the head or head cover bolts and that is the area the leakage comes from.
I verified that it is NOT coming from the rubber head plug. This area is bone dry. It is behind that where it starts.
There is no oil seepage anywhere else on the head cover either.
I cannot tell if it comes from the top or bottom. I cleaned the area thoroughly and did a test run with frequent stopping and checking and I cannot tell why and what is leaking there.

Which bolt is that and why would it leak there?

Title: Re: Head Oil Leak, NOT the Plug
Post by batman on 05/22/16 at 18:08:11

There are 6 nuts holding the head on 4 from above ,but 2 in the bottom dead center front and back that sometimes drip a drop at a time,kind of sounds like your rear one is leaking dripping oil in the area of your starter/clutch/speedo cable.the cure is to remove the nut clean off the oil(solvent) put some high temp silicon around the stud that's sticks down and reinstall the nut.(be careful to torque it 20psi if I recall, it is after all a head bolt).this leak has been seen by a few ,your hardly the first.

Title: Re: Head Oil Leak, NOT the Plug
Post by Dave on 05/23/16 at 03:33:38

I read your description, and went out and looked at my bike....and I can't tell for sure which one you are talking about. The pressure oil supply for the head comes up the right rear cylinder stud, than between the top of the head and the bottom of the head cover the oil galley moves over to the right rear head cover bolt. There is an odd shaped o-ring in that location between the head and head cover, and the bolt should have a sealing washer under the head. This long bolt can strip the threads out of the aluminum cylinder....then you are in a real fix!

I think you need to take a photo...or identify what bolt is leaking before I understand where the leak is.

Title: Re: Head Oil Leak, NOT the Plug
Post by ralfyguy on 05/23/16 at 05:32:59

Thanks for the reply guys. When you look at the rear of head, just in front of the speedo and clutch cable, there is a cavity in the head that goes all the way through the front. You can look in that cavity from the front as well to see the head rubber plug.
Now shining the light in that cavity from the back further in, you can see the shaft of a bolt that goes from the top part of the head down to the cylinder. This is the area where the oil leakage comes from.
I am not talking about the head nuts that are on the back and the front in the middle of the motor. Those are fine.
It is inside that aware shaped hole or cavity.
I looked inside it from the front, there is a nut on the bottom of the cavity and right above is the infamous rubber plug. But the plug is dry, so it is not coming from here.

Title: Re: Head Oil Leak, NOT the Plug
Post by batman on 05/23/16 at 06:11:43

Dave's right we need more info. that hidey hole is hard to see into ,how many mi. on the bike ,have you ever replaced the plug ?If not it could be just be starting to weep and your not seeing it until the air pushes it out the rear opening.If you've had no leaks before this the rubber head plug is suspect,look again and see if there is any oil on the roof of the opening just behind the plug.you noticed it after a 50 mi ride it could be weeping at speed (your oil pressure being it's highest) then driping down to the cyl. area when you slow/stop.

Title: Re: Head Oil Leak, NOT the Plug
Post by ralfyguy on 05/23/16 at 06:46:41

The bike is an '06. It has 21,000 miles on it and the only thing ever done to the motor is the extended tensioner plunger. The head nuts/bolts have never been torqued as I didn't see a problem all these years. The bike has been run on Rotella T6 for the past 7 years.
The rubber plug and surrounding area, especially the roof is dry. I paid really close attention to that. I cleaned the are with a pressure washer.
It must be coming from around the exposed bolt shaft.
Everything else around the head cover is dry.
At highway speeds it is the worst.
Looking at the schematic of the bolts, it seems I'm talking about the C25 bolt.

Title: Re: Head Oil Leak, NOT the Plug
Post by Dave on 05/23/16 at 07:16:10

Is the oil leak coming from up on top of the head cover and then running down.....or is the leak under the head cover in the cavity that runs from the cavity where the head plug and the right front cylinder stud?

When in doubt....you can remove the breather hose, and put 5-10 psi of air pressure into the engine - then use a plastic sprayer to apply soapy water....then look for bubbles. If there is an oil passage there....it most likely will ooze some oil before the bubbles show up.

http://i60.tinypic.com/11blzdl.jpg

Title: Re: Head Oil Leak, NOT the Plug
Post by ralfyguy on 05/23/16 at 07:31:05

It's under the head cover in the same cavity the head plug is in. The top of the head cover is dry, not running down from it.
After cleaning the area real good it is no doubt that it is not coming from that infamous plug leaking. It is all dry there.
The oil accumulates behind that around that bolt you can see there.
It just builds around it, not running there from somewhere else
When the bike is idling not much happens. It is when out in the road at speed when it accumulates and runs out the back down the cylinder fins.
When stopping and checking then, the area where the rubber Plug us is still dry, nothing running towards the back from there. It almost seems like it is only building around that Bolt and then at Speed gets blown out backwards. It the also spits all over the Starter and the Speedo cable and battery Box.
Id ut possible that it runs down that Bolt shaft from the top, That C25 Bolt has a acorn but it seems from pictures and a copper washer.

Title: Re: Head Oil Leak, NOT the Plug
Post by Dave on 05/23/16 at 07:38:08

If you are talking about the large nut that is directly under the head plug...that is the right front cylinder stud. It is possible that the head gasket is allowing some oil to come through the layers that make up the gasket, and it weeps out from between the coppers washer and the nut....or the clearance between the stud/nut threads (generally the never seize fills the voids in the threads).

The only way you are going to fix that leak if the stud is the source.....is to remove the head cover, remove the head plug, remove the nut and washer on the stud - then clean them up, install a bit of sealer on the washer and nut, and torque it back down....then do the same on the left front cylinder stud which can also weep oil. Then put in a Versy head plug.....and new sealer on the cylinder head cover - it is a big job!

Title: Re: Head Oil Leak, NOT the Plug
Post by ralfyguy on 05/23/16 at 08:19:10

I was talking about the Bolt behind that Front one. I looked at pictures where the head Cover was removed, and it is the bolt next to the chain sprocket with the acorn nut on it, inside the head. It is I believe one of the bolts/studs that hold the head to the cylinder.

Title: Re: Head Oil Leak, NOT the Plug
Post by Dave on 05/23/16 at 08:26:05

64777A706F71636F160 wrote:

I have no idea what bolt you are talking about....you are just going to have to show us which one it is:-?

Title: Re: Head Oil Leak, NOT the Plug
Post by ralfyguy on 05/23/16 at 08:39:20

The nut/bolt on the left between the sprocket and the valve springs.
This one goes through the cavity and the shaft is visible looking into the cavity.

Title: Re: Head Oil Leak, NOT the Plug
Post by Dave on 05/23/16 at 09:27:12

Is the oil coming out up on the head.....or from the space between the top of the cylinder and the bottom of the cylinder head? (You can see the edge of the head gasket at this location).

Here is a photo of the top of a cylinder. The place you have a leak is at the top left side of the attached photo. That odd shaped cavity on the top left is the oil galley....it takes the oil from the cylinder and moves it over to the hole where it travels up the cylinder head.

I believe your head gasket is weeping oil at this location. Maybe torquing your head will make it stop.....maybe not. If torquing the head doesn't make it go away - it will be time for you to remove the head and put a new head gasket in the engine.

Title: Re: Head Oil Leak, NOT the Plug
Post by ralfyguy on 05/23/16 at 09:41:19

It is coming out of that hole in the head. The head gasket is not leaking.
Looking at the rear of the motor, right next to the carb flange, there is a cavity on the left, and a cavity to the right of it. It accumulates in the one on the right and dripping down right by the bolt that attaches the carb flange. If you take a flashlight and look into that cavity, you can see a silver bolt shaft going vertically. That is where it originates from. And it is not from the rubber head plug, because that area is still dry.

Title: Re: Head Oil Leak, NOT the Plug
Post by Dave on 05/23/16 at 09:58:04

I got no other ideas. I will go home and look at the right side of the bike, next to the carb flange....and look forward in the cavity to see if I can see any bolt in that area - right now I don't know of anything that has a bolt in that location.

Title: Re: Head Oil Leak, NOT the Plug
Post by ralfyguy on 05/23/16 at 10:14:15

704B4651404C57514A424F50230 wrote:

Thanks for checking on that :)

Title: Re: Head Oil Leak, NOT the Plug
Post by Dave on 05/23/16 at 15:55:41

OK....I finally see the silver bolt you are talking about. It is the right rear cylinder/head stud. It extends up into the cam/rocker area, and it is sealed with a copper washer under the nut. For some reason - yours has started leaking if the oil is coming from the stud.

The only way to fix it is to take the head cover off, and remove the nut and washer, clean it up, put sealer on the washer and nut....and put it back together.

Title: Re: Head Oil Leak, NOT the Plug
Post by ralfyguy on 05/24/16 at 07:08:17

073C3126373B20263D353827540 wrote:

That's what I was afraid off. Unless it is a cracked head...
I don't remember if it was possible to take the head cover off in frame though.

Title: Re: Head Oil Leak, NOT the Plug
Post by Dave on 05/24/16 at 07:11:28

Yep...you can take the head cover off with the engine in the frame, the only tricky part is that long stud in the left front that holds on the chrome piece on the side (head cover cap). After I have one apart....I make a new stud for that location that has a nut on the bottom - I can put it in after the head cover is bolted back on.

While you have it apart...you might as well put in a Versy head plug so you won't have to take it apart again.

I would also remove all the copper washers, and seal the washers and nuts....and retorque them.

Title: Re: Head Oil Leak, NOT the Plug
Post by ralfyguy on 05/24/16 at 09:48:16

Thanks for the advice. Now I'm gonna have to see when I get a chance to do it. ;D

Title: Re: Head Oil Leak, NOT the Plug
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/25/16 at 05:38:37

A piece of cardboard with the outline of the head cover with a slot cut where every bolt goes will make going back together much easier.
Don't forget the upside down bolt has to be in and the center bolt is too long to remove or install with the head cover on.

If it's hard to get off,,inspect, and be certain all the bolts are out. Knowing how many bolts are in it , and counting what you pulled...

Title: Re: Head Oil Leak, NOT the Plug
Post by ralfyguy on 05/25/16 at 07:06:18

6E7177706D6A5B6B5B63717D36040 wrote:

Thanks JOG. So that long center bolt is coming out with the cover once loosened, right?

Title: Re: Head Oil Leak, NOT the Plug
Post by Dave on 05/25/16 at 07:34:51

7D6E636976687A760F0 wrote:

[quote author=6E7177706D6A5B6B5B63717D36040 link=1463943729/15#20 date=1464179917]A piece of cardboard with the outline of the head cover with a slot cut where every bolt goes will make going back together much easier.
Don't forget the upside down bolt has to be in and the center bolt is too long to remove or install with the head cover on.

If it's hard to get off,,inspect, and be certain all the bolts are out. Knowing how many bolts are in it , and counting what you pulled...

So that long center bolt is coming out with the cover once loosened, right?
[/quote]

Nope...that long center bolt stays where it is....you will be taking the nut and copper washer off the top, cleaning them, applying some sealer....and then torquing it back into place.

Title: Re: Head Oil Leak, NOT the Plug
Post by ralfyguy on 05/25/16 at 08:22:20

Thanks again JOG. I think while I'm at it, I'm gonna also put a new chain in the motor. Might as well if I already hi that far. It's been about 10,000 miles since I put the extended plunger in there.
One question about that though: Does the clutch basket pull just off the shaft?

Title: Re: Head Oil Leak, NOT the Plug
Post by Dave on 05/25/16 at 08:38:27

The outer clutch cover requires 4 screws/springs to be removed. The inner basket has a nut, and a metal washer with a bent tab to lock the nut from turning. You can use an impact to remove the nut easily....otherwise you you need to find someway to hold the inner clutch basket from turning.....and you need to figure out how to do that when you torque the nut back into place.

Dave

Title: Re: Head Oil Leak, NOT the Plug
Post by ralfyguy on 05/25/16 at 11:43:26

Thanks Dave :)