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Message started by BikeNovice on 10/15/15 at 21:53:10

Title: I am not getting a Spark
Post by BikeNovice on 10/15/15 at 21:53:10

I was riding down the highway going 70 mph when all of a sudden felt like I had ran out of fuel. I coasted to the side and the engine felt like getting very little power. once the bike stalled I was unable to start and ran down the battery trying.

I have changed the spark plug, cleaned the carburetor, cleaned the petcock. (the gas does not flow in on or reserve but does in prime) cleaned the air filter, even changed the ignition coil and still no spark. I tested the wire and was not getting a reading.

I have also checked the kick stand switch

I am running out of options any recommendations

Title: Re: I am not getting a Spark
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/15/15 at 22:06:13

d ran down the battery trying

What did you do about that?
What's the battery voltage when the starter is running?

Title: Re: I am not getting a Spark
Post by BikeNovice on 10/15/15 at 22:09:21

I had it charged at auto zone for about an hour and then left the trickle charger on over night.

I am not for sure how to check the voltage meter or which one I am suppose to be using

Title: Re: I am not getting a Spark
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/15/15 at 22:21:49

Don't pull the plug, get a plug, connect to the plug wire, hold against engine, crank..
Volt meter on starter motor connection and a ground,

Title: Re: I am not getting a Spark
Post by verslagen1 on 10/15/15 at 22:26:33

Quote:

(the gas does not flow in on or reserve but does in prime)

The petcock turns on when the engine is running.
But if you vac line is bad it will shut off anyway.
In the tech section index there's a listing for testing your petcock and repair.

Once you run down the battery by running the starter too long, there's not enough power to create a spark.

You also risk burning up your starter.

Title: Re: I am not getting a Spark
Post by Steve H on 10/16/15 at 04:14:20

It is my understanding that if any of the safeties or the kill switch have been activated, the engine will not turn over until said problem is corrected.

If this is correct and the engine turns over when you hit the start button, all your safeties and kill switch are fine. Your problem is elsewhere.

Is there any power on either side of your coil. The coil should be hot and is grounded by the transistor in the ignition box to create the spark.

Title: Re: I am not getting a Spark
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/16/15 at 08:44:47

Don't go hunting gremlins in the wiring harness until you Know what the battery voltage is under load.
And make sure you didn't bump the kill switch during all of this.

Title: Re: I am not getting a Spark
Post by BikeNovice on 10/16/15 at 11:46:12

This is awesome and overwhelming at the same time. How do you test the voltage meter? I want to make sure that it is working. The reason I say this is i get zero reading from the battery when it was showing a reading seconds before. When the ignition is on the lights are bright so I don't understand how I am getting a zero reading.

Title: Re: I am not getting a Spark
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/16/15 at 18:57:10

On the side where the starter is, the wire that goes to the starter, and up, to the left, is where the ground is. I hope you have a friend or slip on clips for the meter. I don't even know where to begin to find those anymore. Our Radio Shacks closed... both of them..
Anyway, when you hit the starter,,check the voltage between the hot wire at the starter and the ground. Or, you can go across the battery, there are a buncha ways to check, but that's the two easiest ways I know.
Another thing that is easy to do is as soon as you let go of the starter button, feel around for any hot connections. The ground on the engine is electrically just as important as the hot connection to the battery. Well, dang near it. If it feels warmer after a try at starting than before, take it loose and clean it up. Since you have a meter, you could set it on Ohms and test it.
If you have never had a meter, I bet you could learn a lot from a YouTube or two.
Be careful about connecting to voltage when it's set to read Ohms. Can kill a meter, I don't know if that applies to digital, but the old analogs would leak smoke.

I can't remember if there is a connector under the tank that will allow it to crank over, but not start.

You do understand the part about the spark plug against the engine, right?
If you do pull the plug, blow the dirt out from around it first.
IF the electronics are okay, But, the battery is less than optimal, then, with the plug out, the starter motor isn't loading the battery much, and the plug might spark.
A plug held against the engine, while the spark plug is IN the engine, will show you if the battery and ignition system will fire the plug while the battery is being challenged by spinning over the motor.
It's not impossible that you've just lived through the death of a spark plug.
You did say it felt like it was trying to run, losing power, but now, no spark..

How do you know that there is no spark?
Have you shot anything into the intake? Ether, anything that burns,

Title: Re: I am not getting a Spark
Post by Dave on 10/17/15 at 04:49:58

060B0C0B0A3E0 wrote:

Most meters have an internal battery, and if it goes dead you don't get any reading. If your meter has a ohm setting to measure resistance, try and see if it shows 0 resistance when you touch the probes together. Meters sit in the drawer a long time, and years pass before need them again.

Title: Re: I am not getting a Spark
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/17/15 at 21:18:04

And left on in ohms position will kill the battery, in hours. Never leave on on unless you're using it. I turn mine off and on many times in a project.

Title: Re: I am not getting a Spark
Post by BikeNovice on 12/23/15 at 15:12:40

ok so checked the connection and cable from the kick start switch. There is no constant flow of electricity when pushed in, more like a pulse. Still No spark. The question is does there have to be a constant flow of energy.

Title: Re: I am not getting a Spark
Post by verslagen1 on 12/23/15 at 15:18:10

should be constant on.
pulse no good.

Title: Re: I am not getting a Spark
Post by BikeNovice on 12/23/15 at 18:48:03

I took the CDI to a shop to see if they could test. I was told the only way to test is by eliminating everything else. I was told that it sounded most likely to be the Pickup Coil. How do you test the pickup coil and is it the one that has a silver case that goes from the case to under the gas tank?

Title: Re: I am not getting a Spark
Post by BikeNovice on 12/23/15 at 18:56:16

verslagen1 if pulse is no good do you know what I should be checking?

Title: Re: I am not getting a Spark
Post by Kris01 on 12/23/15 at 19:01:07

Just FYI:

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1245984387

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1293638302/0

Title: Re: I am not getting a Spark
Post by verslagen1 on 12/23/15 at 19:14:19

this...
Quote:

I was told the only way to test is by eliminating everything else

the power goes from the run/stop switch to the clutch safety to the kickstand safety to the decomp controller to the cdi.

try disconnecting the clutch safety shorting the 2 wires together.
then do the same with the kickstand safety, but 1 at a time.

Title: Re: I am not getting a Spark
Post by hotprops on 12/24/15 at 08:29:57

all the safety switches stop the starter from working/turning so you have a spark or a fuel problem .starting fluid down the carb throat should result in a engine fart . if no than it is spark do as said above and check spark.try it with plug in and out of the engine get back to us

Title: Re: I am not getting a Spark
Post by mjs3790225 on 12/26/15 at 08:12:39

Here are some videos and directions I put together for testing a couple parts of the ignition system.

How to test the pickup coil with two LEDs shoved in the connector.

Get two different color LEDs. 5mm size are fine. Blue and green are better choices but I used blue and red.
Disconnect your pickup coil connector.
Shove the LEDs into the connector coming off of the pickup coil.
- The LEDs should be inserted with polarity opposite of each other.
While making certain you have the leads from the LEDs making good contact inside the connector, try starting the engine.
- This will cause the rotor to spin around the pickup coil. Each time it passes the pickup coil it will cause the coil's magnetic field to collapse and shoot voltage through the LEDs. One LED will light up when it approaches the pickup coil, and the other will light up after it passes it.
If you are getting blinky lights, your pickup coil is working correctly.

Here is a really poor video of me talking about the theory behind this test and stimulating an old pickup coil with a wrench. The video was made as a series talking about something else so it isn't a great substitute for the instructions listed above.
https://youtu.be/EpfbL_aCoNA

How to test the ignition coil by forcing it to spark without the CDI

https://youtu.be/PWDGqB-hW3w

How to test the CDI box by forcing it to spark

NOTE: This test assumes you already know your ignition coil and pickup coil are both good.

First verify power to the CDI box. I am using the diagrams for a 1996 Savage.

Remove CDI box from wire harness
Remove spark plug from engine but keep in socket
Turn on key switch
Turn engine run/stop switch to run
Check voltages on the CDI wiring harness
- Put a voltage meter on the Orange wire with a white stripe, and the black wire with a white stripe. You should have battery level voltage. This means your CDI box is getting power to actually think and make operations. If it isn't, you have a issue with power getting to your CDI box.
  - Check your you safety/bypass switches.
- This same orange/white wire supplies positive power to the ignition coil.
  - If no power on this line, no power for your coil to make a spark

Second, verify power can make it through your ignition coil to the CDI box

Put a voltage meter between the blue wire with yellow strip, and black wire with white stripe. You should have pretty close to battery voltage.

Third, disconnect the pickup coil wires and halfway bypass it.

After the plug is disconnected, jump the orange wires together. Leave the green wire disconnected.

Fourth, reconnect your CDI wiring harness.

Fifth, ground your spark plug.

Use an alligator clip and ground the plug to a clean part on the engine case.

Sixth, force the CDI to spark by dumping the pickup coil's magnetic field - look at the spark plug for a spark or listen for it

On the pickup coil's harness plug, tap the green wires together.
- This sends a pulse to the CDI that is normally only made while the rotor is spinning around.
You should have gotten a spark out of this action. If you didn't your CDI is likely bad. (Or your rotor is currently sitting over the pickup coil. Move your engine a bit more ahead so it is past the timing mark).

Video kind'a outlining this test
https://youtu.be/KdEjrKjbUYM

Title: Re: I am not getting a Spark
Post by verslagen1 on 12/26/15 at 10:13:39

great tip, I'm adding it to the trouble shooting guide.

Title: Re: I am not getting a Spark
Post by hotprops on 12/26/15 at 11:48:55

that is why this place is great the last 2 posts mjs great info and versa adding to tsg .i have said this before i was on the fence about buying a s40 till i found this place. :) a lot of great advise given in a friendly manor