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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> New Member - A Few questions /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1441225395 Message started by Jstat on 09/02/15 at 13:23:15 |
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Title: New Member - A Few questions Post by Jstat on 09/02/15 at 13:23:15 I am a new member here. I'm in St. Louis (Elev 750ft). Thank you for providing this forum. I've already taken advantage of some of the modifications described here. I recently inherited a stock 2007 S40 with only 2300 miles on it. Unfortunately it sat in a garage with gas in the tank for over four years. So now I'm trying to bring it back to life. Here is what I've done so far: 1. New battery. 2. New stock air filter. 3. New stock oil filter and oil change with 10w-40 synth. 4. Raptor petcock and fresh tank of high octane with a dab of sea foam. 5. Cleaned the carb. However I am a novice at carburetor work. Also I could not get the top screws off the carb so I could not get to the top portion (I need to get an impact driver). I cleaned the rest with gum out and a toothbrush. It did not look terribly filthy on the inside. 6. Seat raised 1" with #7 stoppers. 7. Purchased a good condition HD Dyna muffler and clamp but I have not installed it yet. So now, here is what is going on with the bike: 1. It will fire up and will run (I put about 50 miles on it last weekend). However I have to keep the throttle opened a little bit because it will die at idle. I cranked down the idle screw as far as it will go. However there is still about a quarter to half inch, depending on how warm the bike is, between the end of the screw and the point where the bike will die. I drilled out the plug on the idle mix screw and I've been playing with different settings for the mixture but none of those seem to make a difference. The bike still dies if I don't stay on the throttle. So that's my issue 1. Any suggestions? 2. The bike backfires like crazy (shocker!). As before, tinkering with the idle mix screw does not seem to change it. I've ordered a new header gasket just in case the old one is somehow letting air in the pipe. Also, I'm installing a dyna muffler. Any other suggestions? Also, with regard to the dyna install, the tech section suggests using a tin can to make the crush gasket. Won't the tin rust pretty quickly? Also, I bought some Permatex Ultra Copper Maximum Temperature RTV Silicone Gasket Maker that I plan to use at the joint and on the header gasket. Do you see any problems with using this? I'm guessing that some of you may say that both of my problems are still carburetor related, but I was hoping I missed something or that there may be other easier fixes. I really hate carb work ;D Thanks again! |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by strang on 09/02/15 at 14:20:46 1. My bike had exactly the same symptoms as you describe when I first bought it. The owner had taken the bike to at least one mechanic to remedy with no joy. The solution is to trim the white spacer that Suzuki put on the carb needle to get the bike through emissions blah blah. white spacer mod: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1104205157 Maybe before you do that mod however you should get your dyna done, as the carb and muffler interact, so before messing with how much white spacer you want to keep/modify you might want to put the dyna in place. Dyna will make the bike run much better, faster, bit louder :P Well did for mine anyway. If you're worried about the muffler tin can gasket rusting you could maybe use a bit aluminium or stainless pipe with a slash in it. I would just use the tin can and see how you go for a season. You might ending up modding further if you get the bug... Anyway chuck the tin can on there, bit of gasket goo, dyna in place. Then do the white spacer mod. Will be a different bike. Effort, but I think you will like. |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by Steve H on 09/02/15 at 15:07:25 If the bike won't idle. Idle mix adjustment makes no difference at all. 1/4" of space between the idle screw and where the bike stalls, there is one thing to fix. The pilot (idle) circuit in the carb is plugged up. You're relying on the needle jet slightly opening to keep the bike running with a throttle position like that. Pull the pilot (idle) jet, very small wire through the hole...make sure it's clear. Carb cleaner in the passages. Remove the mixture screw. Blow out the passages with compressed air. Air should come out the idle mix screw hole. Once you have air there, you need to get air coming out the small idle holes in the carb bore. When air flows cleanly through the circuit, fuel should flow as well. Oh, and welcome! You've got a nice bike there. Just take your time, learn as you go, and it will last a long time with you taking good care of it. |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by Jstat on 09/02/15 at 15:22:43 Thanks, Steve and Strang. Since I'm going to be installing the Dyna, should I also increase the main jet to 152.5 at that time since it sounds like I need to take the carb apart anyway? |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by verslagen1 on 09/02/15 at 15:26:04 I don't believe the RTV will take the heat. Don't put it on the header at all. The gasket will do fine. I believe steve is right, idle circuit is plugged. Clean again. Do back up the screws with a solid object if you're gonna use an impact hammer on them or you'll break off the tabs. I would prefer to use vice grips on the head and replace with allen head screws. So you raptorized, did you plug the vac port? |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by Jstat on 09/02/15 at 15:33:43 Yep. I went to Autozone and bought a pack of these little rubber caps. http://www.autozone.com/fittings-and-hose-line-connectors/vacuum-connector-and-tubing?filterByKeyWord=rubber+caps&fromString=search Fits snuggly and seems to work. |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/02/15 at 15:35:29 Carry one with you. When one of those caps starts leaking,,, |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by Jstat on 09/02/15 at 15:39:20 Good call. In fact, the bike didn't come with a tool pack, so I'm putting one together and those caps will be in there. |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by chzeckmate on 09/02/15 at 16:28:46 Steve and Versy have it exactly right. Do what they suggested. You can do the white spacer mod after you get the Dyna on and you can get a variety of pilot and main jet sizes to play with. They're cheap, and I wouldn't just assume that the 152.5 will be right. The ones you don't need you can very easily sell or hang on to in case you move or need to tweak for another reason. *I also agree that the RTV won't take the heat and don't see a need for it. |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by Jstat on 09/02/15 at 17:01:57 So, as to the backfiring issue, I guess the reason the mixture screw adjustment did not work is because the idle jet is clogged? I was just thinking there must be air getting into the pipe somewhere and that the silicone might help. (It's not just an occasional backfire, it's ALOT...to the point where I shouldn't ride it around other humans :o). Sounds like I might get a second bite at the apple with the mixture screw fix once I clean out the idle jet. Thanks again, guys. |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by Jstat on 09/02/15 at 17:23:50 79623B38393E3C330A0 wrote:
Steve, are these idle holes the 2 vents with the hoses attached? |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by scotnstl on 09/02/15 at 18:22:19 With the stock air filter you may not need to re-jet with the dyna. Mine runs fine without re-jetting. Welcome from Maplewood. |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by Jstat on 09/02/15 at 19:02:55 Thanks, Scot. Good to know. Wildwood here. |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by Dave on 09/03/15 at 03:50:26 On my bike with the stock air filter and DYNA muffler - the best jetting was a #50 Pilot, #150 main, and 2 washers on the top of the slide needle. Some bikes run fine with 3 washers and that is the standard place to start - but mine still had a uneven "surging" just off idle with 3 washers and removing one made the bike run really well. The #52 pilots most often are used with the cone air filters. And no RTV sealant will work on the exhaust header. Folks can use that on exhaust manifolds on cars as they are water cooled, and the engine block carries the heat away from the gasket surface......the header will get far too hot for the RTV to work. |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by Steve H on 09/03/15 at 04:04:22 The idle circuit outputs beyond the butterfly. Between the butterfly and the engine if I remember correctly. |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by Dave on 09/03/15 at 04:25:35 657E27242522202F160 wrote:
Yes, the small holes are right at the edge of the butterfly - so that the air rushing past the edge of the butterfly picks up the fuel/air fog coming out of those holes. |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by Gary_in_NJ on 09/03/15 at 05:22:08 The idle problem is due to a clogged pilot jet. You can clean it, put the bike back together, and then come to the conclusion that the stock jet is too lean. So I'd bypass a step or two and just replace the pilot jet with a 50. Cleaning jets sucks anyway. Oh, when you get the screws out of the carb, replace them with M4 hex heads. You mentioned that you changed the oil with 10-40 synth. Is this a motorcycle blend or an automotive blend? If it's an auto blend I'd drain it and go to motorcycle specific blend, or even better (because it's inexpensive) you can use Shell Rotella 15w-40. |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by Jstat on 09/03/15 at 15:48:58 I rode the bike to work today, about 60 miles round-trip. All the sudden it is idling properly and not dying. Could it be that the seafoam I had in the tank cleaned out the pilot jet? Or am I being too optimistic? |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/03/15 at 16:15:33 If it was just slightly restricted, it's possible the Foam flushed it out. If a jet is plugged, then, no.. |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by Jstat on 09/03/15 at 20:01:50 4D474349424B4F46181E1A2A0 wrote:
I called a local motorsports parts place and they sent me this pic of the 50 mikuni pilot jets they have in stock. These look different than the pictures I've seen on this site. Again I'm a novice when it comes to carburetor work. Are there different types of number 50 Mikuni pilot jets? |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by Yoshi on 09/03/15 at 20:36:35 Those are the wrong ones, tell the shop its for a suzuki savage I bet they can look it up |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by verslagen1 on 09/03/15 at 20:43:46 Mikuni CV (stock) model carburetor jets Main jets: N100.604 large round, list price $3.68 ea Pilot jets: BS 30/96 (bleed type ... side holes) list price $3.68 ea N151.067 (non bleed type ... no side holes) list price $5.78 ea |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by Jstat on 09/04/15 at 19:12:03 Gotta be a better way to spend a Friday night. :-X. Picked up a 50 pilot w/ bleed holes and a 150 main. I get it back in the bike tomorrow then commence the Dyna install. |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/04/15 at 19:50:08 Tidy, good for a star on the scoreboard. |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by KennyG on 09/04/15 at 20:26:51 Jstat, While you have the carburetor off of the engine it would be a good time to clean the Transient Enrichment Valve. It is the gizmo on the side of the carburetor held on with three small screws. There is a spring in there so hold onto the cover with your thumb when you take the last screw out. Wash the rubber diaphragm with soap and water NOT Carb Cleaner. Kenny G |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by Jstat on 09/04/15 at 20:40:08 Good call, Kenny. I'll do that now. Had a heck of a time getting the pilot jet out. Ended up stripping it. Had to drill it and then hit it with a torque bit. Came out easy after that. |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/04/15 at 21:02:51 507E7558697A68731B0 wrote:
That's the Before picture, right? |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by KennyG on 09/04/15 at 21:03:26 Yes |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/04/15 at 21:06:57 Well, that's good. Looks like you're gonna get to keep the star on the scoreboard. You do know that an After pic woulda got you a coupla more stars, right? Well, as long as it's strikingly different. |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by KennyG on 09/04/15 at 21:38:02 Justin, I pirated that pic off of the forum. My valve wasn't that dirty, but cleaning the passageways did cut down on the after firing. I can post a pic that I know you will like and I am going to be there tomorrow......LOL Kenny G |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/04/15 at 22:01:46 What? You can't wash your own bike? I'm seriously partial to redheads, but little miss America there is just too fine... Does it cost more if you don't get off the bike? |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by KennyG on 09/04/15 at 23:02:52 Justin, I too am partial to redheads, but the patriotic young lady is my favorite. I will ask if it costs extra to stay on the bike while they wash it. Actually I do wash my own bikes, but I am trying to learn how they wash the spokes on a big HOG while bent in half.......LOL Kenny G |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/04/15 at 23:21:21 Ohh, I suspected there was some purely intellectual exercise at the err, root of it all. I'd be happy to have her flag flying from my pole. Strictly as a patriotic gesture, of course. |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by Jstat on 09/05/15 at 09:52:36 I put the carb back in the bike with the new 50 pilot jet and 150 main jet. It is absolutely running right now. 8-) Now onto the Dyna install. |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by Jstat on 09/06/15 at 12:36:29 I put the Dyna on. However, it would not butt all the way to the heavy ring on the pipe. See pic. I used the tin can crush gasket but I'm still getting some puffs of exhaust from the joint. Any suggestions? On a side note, my wife has me smoking ribs today on our Big Green Egg. I just replaced the gasket on it last week. I routinely cook woodfired pizzas on it at temperatures in excess of 700°. The gasket just comes in a roll of tape. Any thoughts on whether this might be a possible fix? |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/06/15 at 13:17:10 The Supertrapp wouldn't seat, either. I used a grinder to shorten the header. Before you do anything like that, inspect the inside of the Dyna. See why it won't go further. And, remember, the heAder is two pipes, so,don't mess up where they join. And, working on it, still on the bike, you've got loads of leverage you can accidentally apply to the header bolts, wimpy, skinny, fragile,, I would remove the whole thing and get it seated. I didn't know then what I know now. The sparks from the grinder hit the battery vent gasses and grenades my battery. Sounded like a 22 pistol. Lots of work to clean up, plus a new battery. And I really doubt the grill gasket is up to the job. You gotta get the end of the slots up over the header. Migh hafta get a drill and arbor and grinding stone inside the Dyna, clean up a weld or something. How long are the slots? How far from the ring to the end of the heAder? |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by Jstat on 09/06/15 at 13:55:14 The end of the slots are definitely completely over the header pipe. The clamp covers them as well. The end of the clamp is also at the end of the muffler, so it's about a half inch from the heavy ring. I may have solved my own problem. I went back and put some extra torque on the muffler clamp. I was able to get about two more turns out of it. Seems to have sealed it up. Just took it for a spin and rides great. Is it always necessary to completely butt it up to the heavy ring? |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/06/15 at 14:02:39 No, its not. Looks like you won. It's more about looks. If you got the back supported and it all Looks straight, then all ya need is a heat shield to hide the connection and it'll look great. Someone did a bang up job, built stand off brackets and made a real , functional heat shield. Looked great and would actually protect from burns. |
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Title: Re: New Member - A Few questions Post by Jstat on 09/06/15 at 14:13:51 Thanks, Justin. I ended up buying some 5/16 bolts, washers and some neoprene washers to put on the front and backside of the bracket on the bike. The stock rubber gaskets on the bike were pretty well toast. Seems to be a secure connection but I'll probably order the OEM rubber gasket and put it on later. I found a Cobra heat shield that I plan to order. Thanks to everyone for all the great advice! Now to get her cleaned up and ride! |
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