|
SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1435340395 Message started by Dave on 06/26/15 at 10:39:55 |
|
Title: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by Dave on 06/26/15 at 10:39:55 When I first built my Cafe' conversion....I did what almost everyone else does and put a 100/90-18 tire on a 2.15" wide front rim, and a 130/70-18 rear tire on a 2.50" wide rear rim. It all appeared normal and rode fine....however it didn't take long for me to see that the tread on the rear tire was rolled over onto the sidewall....and a lot of tread was never going to be used no matter how far I leaned the bike over. The unused tread (chicken strip) on each side of my front tire appeared to be about 3/8", while the unused tread on the rear was closer to 3/4"! (If you look closely at the picture below you can see the width of the chicken strips, and how the tread profile on the rear tire rolls over onto the sidewall and doesn't match the front tire). http://i60.tinypic.com/2ymwrqp.jpg The center tread on the rear tire wore pretty quickly and I developed a wide flat spot in about 4,000 miles....about 2/3rd of the tread was gone in the middle while the sides were not worn. This was a bit of a surprise as I don't ride on straight roads much and corner pretty aggressively. As I began to look and see what tire options I had, I discovered that at 130/70-18 tire is not recommended or approved to be mounted on a 2.50" wide rim....it is supposed to be on a 3.50" wide rim and the narrowest rim it is recommended for is a 3.00". http://i61.tinypic.com/291nvvt.jpg So the next tire I ordered and used was a 110/80-18 rear tire. Before I took the 130 tire off the 2.50" rim I measured the width of the tire tread...and it was 116mm - the 110 tire width was 109mm when mounted. I also changed the front tire from the 100/90-18 to a 90/90-18 tire as it was a better size match for the smaller rear tire. I rode on these tires for a couple of months last summer, and the smaller tires proved to be plenty of tire for the bike. The front tire cross section didn't change much and the tire was just a bit narrower and less tall, the rear tread cross section laid flatter to the road. I was able to get over to within 3/8" of the tire edge on both tires. The tires appeared just a bit skinny compared to what I was used to.....however they seem to be perfectly suited to the weight and HP of the bike. Last winter I did some more changes, and I wanted to explore the 130/70-18 tire on a 3.50 rim where it is supposed to be. At the same time I decided to upgrade the front tire to a 100/80-18 for a bit more width. The change went fine....although it is hard to find a tube to fit a 100/80 tire...Heidenau is the only tube I could find in that size. This year I have been riding on the larger tires for a couple of months including a Dragon trip a couple weeks ago. The tires work good and look OK...however the 3.50 wide rear rim and wide 130 tire have brought back a bit of the Cruiser look and less of the Vintage Road Racer look....old bikes don't have wide rear rims or tires! I made some templates for the tire cross section/width, and here is what I found: This sketch shows the comparison of the tires on the rims they are made to fit. The 110/80 tire is on a 2.50 rim and the 130/70 tire is on a 3.50 rim. The 110 tire has a tread width of 109mm and the 130 tire had a tread width of 128mm. You will note that the tread shape is almost identical.....it is designed to have this shape on the recommended rim width. http://i59.tinypic.com/173dlj.png This is a comparison of the 130 tire mounted on the 2.50" rim and the 3.50 rim. You can see how the narrow 2.50 rim arches the tire out of the proper shape. http://i60.tinypic.com/2evbxnb.png This sketch shows what the 130/70 tire looks like on a flat road surface, as well as on a 45 degree surface. A street bike will be hard pressed to obtain this lean angle - but note how close the edge of the tire is to the 45 degree line that represents the road in a hard turn. http://i62.tinypic.com/15mcyty.png This photo shows what happens when you squeeze a 130 tire onto a narrow 2.50 rim. The tire tread is arched and pulled away from the paving so that the tread touching the road has been narrowed. The tire on the 3.50 rim has 4.2 inches of tread that can touch the road between the 45 degree lines in both directions...this tire only has 3.8 inches between those lines (The 110 tire has 4.0 inches between those same 45 degree lines!). The difference might even be more as these profiles don't take into account the tread will flatten a bit when the weight is applied to the tire. http://i61.tinypic.com/352ordh.png CONCLUSION - It is my belief that if you want the lightest and quickest Cafe' bike....you should go with a 90/90-18 front tire on a 2.15" rim and a 110/80-18 rear tire on a 2.50 rim. If you want a bit beefier tire combination you can use the 90/90-18 front tire on a 2.15" or 2.50" wide rim.....You can also use the 100/80-18 tire on a 2.15" or 2.50" wide rim for a bit lower profile tire (although you will find that it is hard to get this size in some performance tires like the Battlax BT-45......they list it as being made but it doesn't seem to be imported into the US). For the rear tire you can use a 130/70-18 if you mount it on a 3.50" wide rear rim (or even a 3.00 rim if you can find one) - but squeezing this size tire onto a 2.50" rim will actually get you less rubber on the road than you will get with the narrower 110 tire. FOR ME......at this point I am sticking with the 100/80-18 front tire. I am not sure which back tire/rim I am going to stick with....a summer of riding/testing is in progress! |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Tire Discussion Post by engineer on 06/27/15 at 05:49:50 Great discussion Dave, thanks for posting it. The illustrations help a great deal to demonstrate how tire profiles change with the rims they are fitted on. And also helps illustrate how the contact patch moves as a bike leans over. |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Tire Discussion Post by Rylee on 06/27/15 at 15:53:00 Good write up Dave. I went thru this issue years ago with a track built SV650 I had. I noticed it was harder to get a 130 rear to push over than it was a 110 rear. Tire options were even more difficult to find and I was stuck with a Pirelli Diablo slicks because I had 17's and a 120/70 front was the smallest I could find for the rear tire. Man did it wanna lay over once you got leaned off the crown enough though! |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Tire Discussion Post by Dave on 09/28/15 at 05:33:23 I have been searching for the "perfect" rear tire size to work with the 2.50x18 rear rim (the 130/70-18 is not made to fit a 3.50x18 rim)....and I believe I have found it. A 120/80-18 rear tire is available in the Pirelli Sport Demon, Bridgestone Battlax BT45 tires. This tire is measured at 120mm wide on a 2.75x18 rim - but is suitable for use on rim widths from 2.15-3.00. This will get you the most usable tread on the 2.50 rim - the 130/70 tire is only 116mm wide when squeezed on the narrow rim....and the tread is rolled over onto the sidewall where it can't be used. I have used a 110/80-18 tire for one summer and it proved to be plenty of tire for the weight/HP of the bike - however it does look just a bit narrow on the bike. I believe the 120/80-18 will be a better choice (better than the 130/70-18) on the 2.50-18 rim. If you want to use the 130/70-18....you really should have a 3.50x18 rear rim. (NOTE: I had been looking to see if a 4.00-18 size might be a good fit, as some tires are offered in that size and it does work on the 2.50x18 rim. It turns out the 4.00-18 tires are really tall. The 110/80 tire is 630mm OD, the 120/80-18 tire is 654mm OD, the 130/70-18 is 637mm OD....the 4.00-18 tire is 675mm OD.) |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Tire Discussion Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/28/15 at 14:38:56 Motorcycle mag, doctors office, discussing traction and tire deformation in corners. A picture showed the bike in a hard left. The contact patch looked huge, because the tire was so distorted. I wish I could describe it. |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Tire Discussion Post by verslagen1 on 09/28/15 at 15:00:53 The tire contact patch will increase due to the additional g load of the turn. If you're leaning over 45°, you're putting 2 g's on the tires effectively doubling the weight of your bike + your @$$. What would your tire look like if you put another 600 lbs of dead weight on it? It'd look flat. The tire is further distorted by rolling or twisting of the tire caused by the lean angle. |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Tire Discussion Post by Dave on 09/29/15 at 04:26:06 The deformation of the tire....and resulting contact patch area is one of the reasons I started this thread. The current trend is for the Cafe' owners to stuff a "Too Wide" tire on a "Too Narrow" rim, and the result is the tire no longer has the contact patch that was designed into the tire. Instead of the arched oval pattern...the tire beads are pulled in a full inch and the result is a round pattern and the tire has tread rolled over onto the sidewalls. Modern tires....especially the Sport Touring tire that are being used on the Cafe' bikes have tire cross sections that look like this: http://i58.tinypic.com/vdpz03.jpg And when mounted on the proper width rim....the tire contact patch changes with lean angle. Notice that the maximum contact patch occurs at 45 degrees.....however when the 130/70-18 tire is mounted on a the 2.50 rim - the sidewall tread has been rolled over and the contact patch will no longer look like what is shown in the following diagram. http://i58.tinypic.com/2wom7sz.jpg I started this thread as I had followed the tradition and mounted a 130/70-18 tire on my 2.50 rim....and there was nearly a full inch of the rear tire that was not being used (chicken strip) - while the front tire has only about 1/4" of unused tread. It is my belief that when folks mount a 130/70-18 tire that is designed to be mounted on a 3.50" rim (and is listed as being recommended on a 3.00" - 4.00" rim) - they are forcing the tire to create a tire profile that is too rounded.....and it rolls the edges of the tread over onto the sidewall where it will never be in contact with the road. The 2.50x18 rim is able to accept the 110/80-18 and 120/80-18 tire size....and will accept the vintage 4.00-18 size if you can live with the very tall tire diameter (most likely it will create a swing arm clearance problem). NOTE: This discussion is directed toward Cafe' and Tracker conversions that are using the common 2.50-18 rear rim.....this size rim uses Sport Touring tires that are designed as performance tires for somewhat aggressive cornering.....these tires can wear out in 6,000 miles. The stock 15x3.25 rim can easily accept the commonly used 140/80-15 and 140/90-15 tires, as those tires are made to fit on that width rim and they are more designed for long mileage and acceptable performance in all weather conditions.....MMRanch has about 20,000 miles on his Michelin Commanders. For best handling the Savage would very likely respond better to a 130/90-15 tire....but that is not the Cruiser look that we have come to accept. |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Tire Discussion Post by LANCER on 09/29/15 at 08:15:52 Good info |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Tire Discussion Post by Dave on 12/15/15 at 12:27:13 I just stumbled across some photos of my 100/90-18 front tire on the 18x2.15 rim and the 130/70-18 rear tire on a 18x2.50 rim after a lap of the Tail of the Dragon, the tires are Pirelli Sport Demons. This is the front tire, and the relatively narrow Chicken Strip that shows I am using most of the available tread. http://i67.tinypic.com/2nld74g.jpg This is the "Too Wide" rear tire on the "Too Narrow" rim, and you can see that the chicken strip is much wider. The tire cross section is too round when you force the 130/70 tire onto a rim that is 1" narrower than the tire is designed for. http://i68.tinypic.com/nyskea.jpg The rear tire would work much better if it was a 120/80-18, and that will be the size of my next rear tire! |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Tire Discussion Post by gizzo on 12/15/15 at 21:58:32 Hi Dave. Those pics are a good illustration of what you described. FWIW different tyre brands seem to have different cross sections as well. For example my Other Bike has front rim 2.15/18 with a 100/90/18 tyre. The rear is 3.00/18 with 130/70/18 tyre. Pirelli Sport Demons were stock fitment. I could ride the rear to it's edge, and the front as well. No chicken strips. The front tyre was pretty trashed on its edges, with more tread in the centre that the sides. The new tyres are Dunlop Arrowmax, exact same dimensions. They handle just great , But: To look at them, they look taller and skinnier, with a more rounded profile than the Pirellis and I haven't yet got to the edge of front or rear, despite dragging frame a few times. Have chicken strips on these about 1/4" that won't go. They seem to drop into a turn faster than the Pirellis, maybe because of their rounder profile, maybe just because they're new. But, they don't look so right and I'll go back to the Sport Demons next time. I got 10500 km from the Pirellis. Just FWIW and thanks for the informative tyre thread. Cheers :) |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Tire Discussion Post by jcstokes on 12/15/15 at 23:37:27 Wow, you guys get techo, I'll stick with my Michelin Commander and Pilot Activ , but I'm only a wuzzle. |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Tire Discussion Post by gizzo on 12/15/15 at 23:46:46 Nah, not me. I just fit the stock size and call it good... |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Tire Discussion Post by Gus on 12/18/15 at 15:38:16 Thanks for the informative tire article Dave. This is something I've been mulling over of late before I tear apart the Savage. |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Tire Discussion Post by Dave on 07/27/16 at 04:28:32 I spent last weekend riding around in TN/NC with MMRanch, Stewmills and Badwolf. In that weekend I made about 4 full up/back trips on the Dragon, and on Sunday morning we only had time to ride about half way out and back......that would be about 50 miles of Dragon riding. The rest of the weekend we rode about 800 miles of mountain roads at a brisk pace. On this trip I was using the Bridgestone Battlax BT-45 tires, a 100/80-18 front tire and a 110/80-18 rear tire. As noted earlier the rear tire is a perfect fit for the 2.50x18 rear rim - but it does look a bit narrow as we are used to seeing much wider tires these days. It proved to be plenty of tire for the bike to stick and corner well....it is not lacking for any traction in acceleration, cornering or braking. This is the front tire. The chicken strips don't show up well in the photo, it has about 3/8" of a strip along the edge that is not scuffed. The whiskers on the edge have been worn off - and this is most likely from the very tight corners and hard braking on the Dragon. If you only ride sweepers the edge whiskers most likely would still be there. The tire is working really well, it has developed a bit of a humming noise when leaned over hard, as the tread blocks are wearing at a bit of an angle. It is not a bothersome noise and only makes itself known as you lean over really hard. http://i68.tinypic.com/vhdkzp.jpg The rear tire has a nearly identical 3/8" strip along the edge - but the whiskers on the edge remain. This "narrow" tire has all the rubber and traction that is needed on the Savage - but it may be a bit narrow from a "visual" point of view. Most Cafe' bikes and the vintage bikes they are made from do have narrow tires.....I saw a Norton 850 Commando on the Dragon last weekend and it had a 100/90-18 rear tire as standard, and I am sure it can out accelerate and outweighs the Savage. The visual narrowness of the rear tire on the Savage is also amplified a bit by the wide belt pulley. The tire is wearing fine and has just a bit of a flat strip in the center of the tire from riding down the highways. The BT45 is a Sport Touring tire, and the rubber compound is a bit soft and likely will only last 6 - 8,000 miles on the rear. http://i63.tinypic.com/bg3b81.jpg So.....I do believe the 110/80-18 works fine on the rear and is a perfect fit on a 2.50x18 rim. I also believe the 120/80-18 rear may be a better visual fit, and it will work just fine on the 2.50x18 rim. If you want a 130/70-18 tire - you should be using a 3.50x18 rear rim (the rim and tire weight will increase several pounds). The front tire in a 90/90-18 or 100/80-18 are nearly identical in size, and they both work well with the 110/80-18 or 120/80-18, and even the 130/70-18 rear. The 100/90-18 tire is just a bit too tall to look good on the bike (my personal opinion) - it just looks too large for the 70 or 80 series rear tire that is used. Using the shorter 80 series front tire also helps to lower the front and steepen the fork angle and reduce trail, and they are lighter - and this all helps to improve the steering response. If you want to ride aggressively - the Pirelli Sport Demons are the softest and stickiest (and faster wearing) tires you can get in the proper size. The Bridgestone Battlax BT45 tire is almost as sticky but is supposed to last a bit longer, and the rear tire has a dual compound with a bit harder strip in the center to resist wearing out the center too soon. The Avon AM26 Road Rider is a bit harder and longer lasting - it most likely is not as sticky as the Pirelli or Bridgestone.....but is most likely just fine for most riders. I have not explored the cheaper options made by Shinko or Kenda. |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Tire Discussion Post by old_rider on 07/28/16 at 15:14:31 Ok Dave.... leaning or turning into the curve? I noticed in the first pic of your old 90's that your toe is still 4" from the pavement. Is it because you "break loose" any further in the lean? or that you don't trust the tire to lean into it further or is it a semi-aggressive angle you are taking in the curve? I understand the "angle of attack" you are talking about and the "patch" that touches as you approach your apex. And the front is always going to be worn more than the rear due to steering into the turn, or corrections made while doing so. Style of riding and wear have an impact one your remaining "unused" portion of rubber. Each person will have to find the "perfect fit" for their riding style, but this is just my opinion... I suppose it is the reason for your post. More info is needed! guess I will have to do so with my next set of rubbers :) which is soon. |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Tire Discussion Post by Oldfeller on 07/28/16 at 15:38:57 Dave rides mostly upright and he does not seem to require the expected heavy lean angles as he weighs a lot less, both him and his bike. The amount of cornering force necessary to get him around a turn is much less, accordingly. Following Dave is fun, as he makes all things look very easy. Following Dave very closely up behind him is a giggle blast, as you can get a little bit of adventure out of some fairly standard looking roads as a sedate Dave is really taking that corner pretty durn fast for us normal mortals. My pegs get scraped regularly following Dave around, him and his half inch wide chicken strips ..... |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Tire Discussion Post by Dave on 07/28/16 at 18:28:51 That photo with my toe 4" from the pavement is during a transition between the curves at the Dragon, and I was not at a maximum lean at that point - it was posted to show the really wide chicken strip caused when you put the 130/70 tire on a too narrow 2.50 rim (the tire should be on a 3.50 rim). That photo was also the first time I took the Cafe' conversion to the Dragon, and I was not pushing it too hard yet. On this last Dragon trip I actually surprised myself.....I drug my toe on the pavement in one corner! It was the fist time I have ever done that! :) |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by Dave on 01/03/17 at 05:00:03 Piedmontbuckeye just brought the Michelin Pilot Activ to my attention as another tire option for the Cafe bikes. It comes in the 100/90-19 standard front size, along with the 100/90-18 size for the smaller rim. For the smaller front tire that I prefer it is also available in a 90/90-18 size, and I like the reduced mass and shorter sidewall (I wish it came in the 100/80-18). For the rear tire to fit a 2.50-18 rim the tire is only available in a 120/90-18 tire - which is really tall (26.6" tread diameter). For the 3.50-18 rim the tire is available in a 130/70-18 size that is a 25.6" tread diameter). If you jam the 130/70-18 tire on a 2.50 wide rim, you will cause the tread to be squeezed into a tread profile that does not provide the radius that the tire was made for....the contact patch will be narrower and you will have tread over on the sidewall you can't use. I may try this tire next time - however I likely have a year or two or riding left on my current tires. http://i64.tinypic.com/30nhclj.jpg |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by Ruttly on 01/03/17 at 06:31:45 Do you know what the speed rating is ? They look like a good tire . Michs are top shelf in my book. $$$ |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by Gary_in_NJ on 01/03/17 at 06:37:18 Good info Dave and Piedmontbuckeye. I don't think I'll need tires for my cafe racer anytime soon, but I've decided to use 18" hoops for my DRz street tracker. I was looking at the Pirelli Sport Demon 130/80-18 rear & 100/90-18 front. The Pirelli's are made for Sport-Touring motorcycles (500-600 pound bikes) and I have concerns about these tires getting to the proper heat range on a 275 pound bike. Reading up on the Pilot Activ's on Michelin's website it would appear that these tires were designed for somewhat lighter bikes (Royal Enfield ~ 400 pounds, Guzzi V7 ~ 390 pounds) and are probably a better fit for my project. |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by Gary_in_NJ on 01/03/17 at 06:49:04 1F24293E2F23383E252D203F4C0 wrote:
I think that the 90/90-18 front and 120/90-18 rear is a great combo for the cafe bikes. This combination lowers the front and raises the rear, which is desirable given the frame geometry. Using a 120/90-18 is getting very close to the swingarm brace. |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by Dave on 01/03/17 at 07:20:21 The Pirelli Sport Demon and the Bridgestone Battlax BT45 are both made for lighter bikes, and they seem to work just fine....and both of them are recommended tires on the Ninja 250 forum. The Sport Demon is stated to be stickier and faster wearing than the BT45 - the BT45 rear has a harder compound in the center tread for longer mileage before you wear a flat spot in the center of the tire. I have used both on the Savage Cafe' bike, and there is nothing not to like about them from my experience - I wanted a sticky tire and they both stick well for the 6,000 mile or so that they last. The Avon RoadRider AM26 is another tire option that comes in a lot of vintage sizes - it is not really listed as a Sport Touring tire....but a lot of folks use it as it fits vintage bikes. The Michelin Pilot Active is a V rated tire (up to 149mph) in the 100/90-19 & 100/90-18 front and 120/90-18 & 130/70-18 rear. The 90/90-18 front and 130/70-18 rear are H rated tires (up to 130 mph). |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by Oldfeller on 01/03/17 at 09:56:53 Dave is a small frame, light person. I am not. More mass going around a turn at the same speed requires greater "arc turn forces" and more lean angle to generate them for the more massive biker. I drag pegs and grind frame stuff considerably following Dave through the same turns while he comes up with wider chicken strips and a much more vertical body orientation during the whole thing. Remember, more mass at "same speed same turn" requires more lean angle to generate the appropriate "arc turn force". Keeping up with Dave (ie closely following behind him) these many summers has made for good riding training for me as I have to be more aggressive than Dave on late braking, etc. Following him closely on his little cafe Savage is fun, as is following him on his Ninja. Dave goes quicker than you would think as his light mass and upright riding posture really doesn't tilt nearly much as the rest of us have to do. If he show signs of struggling at a particular turn I back off ASAP as it will be much worse for me when I get there. Braking is fun too --- Dave has better brakes than the rest of us. I occasionally howl my rear tire at him when we are mucking about good as I cannot decelerate at the same rate that his lighter mass and his better brakes permit him to do. My "I over-stressed the rear car tire howl" lets him know about it. I also tend to deep purple blue my front rotor by the time we stop at the overlook on the Dragon. |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by Dave on 01/03/17 at 10:04:43 The only thing more intimidating than having my mirror filled up with "wall to wall" oldfeller......is hearing springman's brother in law Steve coming at me with his fully laden Harley Touring bike (windshield, saddlebags, tour pack) snarlng a few feet behind me! I knew that if he hit me at the entrance to a corner......it would take them 2-3 days to find me over the side of the hill! |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by Oldfeller on 01/03/17 at 10:12:21 Remember that left hand turn that sneaked up on you, when we were on your favorite Kentucky "fly up in the air" road ??? I had to shift my normal position over to the right hand side of you for fear you were going to go ahead and make the left turn ..... and do it right in front of me. But the patented Oldfeller audible sensor alert caused Dave to reconsider that move and he went on past the turn and we all road "U" turned peaceably. ::) |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by Dave on 01/03/17 at 11:22:16 Yep, that side road came up in a location I didn't expect it.....I had never used that road to get down to Maysville before - so I wasn't sure where it was. When it suddenly appeared I began to grab the brake hard and I knew I could get slowed with little room to spare - but it was a bit too much to ask of the 4 folks following behind who were enjoying the scenery. Sometimes it is just safer to make a dorky looking U-turn! ;) |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by Dave on 03/17/17 at 07:20:56 042322223A2F560 wrote:
Who makes a 130/100 tire? That is a size I have never seen - and it is not listed in the fitment chart on Page 1 of this thread. |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by Gary_in_NJ on 03/17/17 at 07:55:32 110/90 would be the best option. It's available in the Pirelli Sport Demon as well as the Michelin Pilot Activ. In the Pirelli Sport Demon it's a dedicated rear, while the Michelin site doesn't reference whether it's a front or rear, just that the size is available. |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by Dave on 03/17/17 at 08:40:34 I think the next rear tire size I am going to try on the 2.50 rim is a 120/80-18. It will be a nice match to a 90/90-18 front. My current 110/80-18 rear works fine.....but it would be nice to have just a bit more width to satisfy my visual desires - the 110/80 just looks a bit skinny. |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by Gary_in_NJ on 03/17/17 at 08:57:21 655E5344555942445F575A45360 wrote:
The 120/80 also has a very similar sidewall height as the 130/70 - unpinched. In it's pinched state it's a taller, probably exactly the same as the 120/80. |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by Dave on 03/17/17 at 09:11:53 These are the numbers listed for the Avon AM26 ....just for a comparison of diameters. 110/80-18.....OD 25.2" 120/80-18.....OD 25.7" 120/90-18.....OD 26.6" 130/70-18.....OD 25.6" So....that 120/90 is pretty durn tall! |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by snels516 on 02/24/18 at 10:51:02 I know this is about cafe bike tire size but it seemed like a decent place to ask the question. I have an 85 GS550L wheel sitting in my garage. 16x2.5. Everything I can find lists the factory size as 130/90. Does that seem too wide? I know you say it does on an 18x2.5 but would that still hold true for the 16” wheel? |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by Dave on 02/24/18 at 18:11:54 48555E57480E0A0D3B0 wrote:
Look at that tire fitment chart on the first page.....the rim diameter doesn't seem to matter - it is the rim width that matters. |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by snels516 on 02/24/18 at 18:17:21 The box for 130/90 is gray but doesn’t have the STD in it for a 2.5” rim. I guess I’ll just see how it goes. Like I said, it seems to be the factory size as far as I can tell. Doesn’t mean that Suzuki is always right tho. |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by Dave on 02/25/18 at 03:52:02 The Tire fitment chart on the first page of this thread shows a 130/90 tire will fit a rim width of 2.50 up to 3.50. The tall sidewalls are flexible and allow a pretty wide range of rims. However....the 2.50 is the narrowest rim the 130/90 tire should be installed on - the tread cross section will be rounder than it would be on a wider rim, and you may have tread rolled over on the edges that you may never be able to access while cornering...and the center of the tire may wear a bit faster than it would on a wider rim. |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by snels516 on 02/25/18 at 07:17:01 Ok thank you. I think that’s where I was in my head I just didn’t quite articulate it. The taller sidewall affecting the range of rims it can be used on. Thanks Dave. |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by Dave on 10/09/18 at 09:29:36 Well I just had an "awakening" last weekend. I rode my Ninja Cafe' on a 1,351 mile trip spanning 4 days. I installed a brand new set of Pirelli Sport Demons ($257.47) before I left, and measured the tread depth. My riding was pretty conservative and I rode at the speed limits, and did very little aggressive cornering. Upon returning I was surprised to discover I had used up 22% of the rear tread and 16% of the front.....so I can expect the rear will be worn out at 6,000 miles and the front at 8.000 miles. This is pretty typical of the tire life I have experienced with sport touring tires - but in the past I was just too busy to allow me to ride more than 2,000 miles a year.....and I could get 3 years out of a tire. My tire expense works out to be around 4.2 cents per mile.....my fuel expense was almost the same at 4.3 cents per mile (64mpg & $2.75 a gallon). So.....as much fun as sticky tires can be - they are not cheap! I finally understand why folks are going darkside or looking for affordable long mileage tires and being tolerant of some slipping/sliding in the rain! |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by Gary_in_NJ on 10/09/18 at 13:35:32 566D6077666A71776C646976050 wrote:
This trip was not indicative of your typical ride profile. Nor is it indicative of the typical trip for a sport touring tire. Since you were mostly slamming down the interstate the center section of the tire saw the majority of use, as opposed to 50-75%. Also, the tire was probably operating at a higher than normal temperature. Both of these conditions would result in greater wear. |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by Dave on 10/09/18 at 14:05:22 You are likely correct....if I continue to ride this Ninja like a touring bike - the center of the tires will be worn and the edges will be like new! I better take a trip down to the Tail of the Dragon so I can even up the tread! ;) |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by MMRanch on 10/11/18 at 11:11:21 So.....as much fun as sticky tires can be - they are not cheap! I finally understand why folks are going darkside or looking for affordable long mileage tires and being tolerant of some slipping/sliding in the rain! Yea Dave , Welcome to my world ! ;D Its worse on a heavy bike . They don't make Commander II's in Sport Bike sizes . The first AM-26 Avon I ran on the front of a Savage ran 40,000 + miles and dry-rotted with 1/3 of the tread left. You know how I am about front brakes too. Don't know how long the rear AM-26 (130/90-17) on the Guzzi will last ? But I got 5,500 miles out of the rear Demon to the wear bars , and about 7,000 from the front Demon . Hay ? You ain't going Dark-Side on us are ya ? :-? |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by Dave on 10/11/18 at 16:43:08 0D1F0D1F12010E0308400 wrote:
No - but I am willing to explore a tire that lasts longer than the Pirelli Sport Demon or the Bridgestone Battlax BT45. I believe my next set of tires is going to be the Michelin Pilot Sport Activ for my next set......since you are testing the Avon AM26. https://www.bikebandit.com/tires-tubes/motorcycle-tires/michelin-pilot-activ-motorcycle-tire/p/3763 |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by MMRanch on 10/11/18 at 17:06:41 .since you are testing the Avon AM26. About 3,000 miles on the rear so far and its not even got a flat spot in the middle yet . :) If the tread didn't look like something off a Sports Bike then I'd think it was a Cruiser tire ! ;D I've yet to check it out on a slick-wet road like the one we found in N.Georga while I was on the Harley/CommanderII. Sliding around trying to keep up with you and that light bike and soft tires ! ::) |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by stinkywheels on 01/02/19 at 12:15:43 Has anyone done anything with 17" rims? Being new to building I was thinking the 17s would be plentiful and maybe cheap as they come on bikes as small as the 250/390 bikes and similar in weight. I've been riding and modifying bikes for 30+ years. This Savage is my first try at turning a cruiser into something a little sportier. |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by Dave on 01/11/19 at 03:00:50 stinkywheels: There is a larger selection of tires available for 17" diameter - however most of them are catered toward sport bikes and motards, and it requires very wide rims. I avoided using 17" wheels as I did not want my bike to look like a motard/super moto or Grom where the tire diameter seems really small compared to the size of the motorcycle. The problem we have with the 18" wheels for the Savage, is that the tires are mostly catered to vintage bikes or sport touring bikes, and there really is not any "long mileage" tires available - the choices are limited to tires that wear out in 8,000 miles or less. The Michelin Sport Active and the Avon AM26 Road Rider may be the highest mileage options. |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by Dave on 03/03/19 at 07:35:53 This needs to be placed somewhere handy.....I have needed this chart and didn't know it existed - until now. It is odd that tires are often listed in metric sizes - but tubes are not. https://www.campusskooters.com/tire-size-conversion-chart |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by Dave on 03/05/19 at 04:26:28 I was pretty disappointed with the mileage I got out of the Bridgestone Battlax BT45's - the front one has a blocky tread pattern on the sides and it wore out on the edges....while the back tire was supposed to have a harder rubber compound down the middle - but it got a big flat spot pretty quickly. I had the BT45's on both bikes - on the little Ninja lasted about 8,000 miles and the front tire wore on the sides just like on the Suzuki - while on the rear of the Ninja you could see that the center tread compound was harder and the rubber was a slightly different color and you could see a small line where the rubber joined and the softer rubber wore a bit faster. I never did see any evidence of a different rubber compound on the BT45 on the Savage, and the center of the tire wore very flat as if I was doing burnouts or just riding down the interstate....I was very dissatisfied with the way this tire wore out and I believe I only got around 5,000 miles out of both the front and rear. I am trying Michelin Pilot Sport Activ tires this time around as they are supposed to get good mileage. The 90/90-18 front is on 2.15x18 rim and 130/70-18 rear is on 3.50x18 rim. The front tire was very hard to get mounted - and it took about 5 tries of inflating/deflating/lubing to get the beads to seat. The back tire was far easier to get mounted and seated the first try. The tire carcass is very stiff on these tires - and I believe the "tubeless" beads make the tire harder to get seated than the old "tube" tires. I hope to get a minimum of 8,000 miles from these new tires....and more even wear across the tread. The tread cross section on these tires seems very round....I may not be able to get leaned over far enough to scrub the chicken strips off (I may have to get out the belt sander to get any "street cred" with the wear going all the way to the edge). |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by MMRanch on 03/05/19 at 06:33:38 (I may have to get out the belt sander). I did that on my drive belt once ! ;) You know what Dave , you were right about the 110/90-16 on the mag wheel I put on the savage . I think the rim is a 2.5" and I don't miss that extra tire width ... I wasn't using it anyway. It was just extra weight the motor was having to sling for no reason . The bike corners just as good and feels lighter to boot ! :) The front is 1.85" with a 90/90-19 , they just look skinny but feel just as secure once the bike is rolling. I hope to give a millage report latter in the year. In 110/90-16 there ain't many to pick from . I can get a 120/90-16 in AM26 next time . |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by Dave on 03/05/19 at 07:05:32 With your 16" rim...you likely can get by with a 90 series height - it would be too tall for me with my 18" rim. For my Cafe' bike rear using a 2.50x18 rim....I am going to try the 120/80-18 size - I think it is the proper sized tire for the back of the Savage Cafe' and is a good size match for a 90/90-18 front. |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by MMRanch on 03/05/19 at 07:58:30 I was just looking , the AM26 comes in 120/80-16 too ! I got ta wear out this 110 first .... "Come-on Warm weather ! " ;D |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by Dave on 03/05/19 at 10:05:15 Front tire was worn on the sides.....likely from trail braking into the corners and aggressive cornering on tight/low speed curves. http://i63.tinypic.com/apjo8y.jpg The rear tire is worn badly down the center.....I have no idea why? The sides show very little wear, the middle shows a bunch. I wonder if they goofed and to the soft rubber in the center and the hard rubber on the edges? http://i68.tinypic.com/11kkw82.jpg |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by MMRanch on 03/05/19 at 19:35:48 I've found a steady diet of front braking takes that center grove off the front but I must not be trail braking . So all that heavy braking in the first part of the curves causes that ? It does make sense to lean , slow the front tire so the rear tire starts to pass the front ... then pour the fuel to it to help the rear come on around into a broad-side motion then release the front brake and "un-lean" into the exit. But That sounds kinda scary ! |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by Dave on 05/21/19 at 08:58:09 I have come to believe the Avon Road Rider AM26 may be a really good tire for the Cafe' bikes. MMRanch is running them on his Moto Guzzi right now, and he is getting very good wear from them, and they are providing exceptional traction and handling. On this last visit down to the mountains in TN/NC/GA, MM was able to lean his Guzzi all the way over to the edge of the tread and wipe out all the "chicken strips". We also saw a fellow using the Road Riders on a Triumph Street Twin....and the fellow leans over so far that the ends of his pegs are ground off and he even commented that one time the shifter hit the pavement and changed gears mid corner! I installed the Michelin Sport Activ - but so far I have not ridden on them more than a few miles. |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by Dave on 07/20/19 at 08:18:05 I have put about 500 miles on the Michelin Pilot Active tires......at first I thought they were unsafe on this bike and the ride was horrible - it turns out the new rear shocks were bottoming out and making the choppy ride. The casing on the tires is incredibly stiff and I had a real battle getting them mounted on the rims. It might be this helps for tread life, as the tire will not squirm as much and that may help prevent the rubber from being scrubbed away. Time will tell how these hold up - so far they stick really nice. |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by MMRanch on 07/20/19 at 19:17:50 I'm thinking the rear one (AM26)on the guzzi will be gone by 12,000 miles , but its a gripper ! :) But , if ya ever want a really long lasting tire I've tried those Commander II's and know they are good for 20,000 miles or more ! |
|
Title: Re: Cafe' Bike Tire Discussion Post by Dave on 07/21/19 at 03:45:59 627062707D6E616C672F0 wrote:
They don't make the Michelin Commander in 18" diameter that will fit on my rims (90/90-18 front, 120/80-18 or 130/70-18 rear). If the Avon AM26 tires last to 12,000 miles, that will be twice what I get out of the Pirelli Sport Demons or Bridgestone Battlax BT45 tires. |
|
SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2! YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved. |