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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Savage only tops out at 60 /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1431365471 Message started by rtebbs8996 on 05/11/15 at 10:31:11 |
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Title: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/11/15 at 10:31:11 After paroozing around, a lot of people talk about getting around 75 on their savage. Im curious, as I'm only getting about 60, and its revving pretty high there. I bought my 87 model with 19000 miles last November and have been running it the past week since I got my permit. Any tips? I replaced spark plug and changed oil. Runs great, just not a High top speed compared to others |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by verslagen1 on 05/11/15 at 10:51:40 Does it top out at 60 or are you scared to twist it any further? |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Serowbot on 05/11/15 at 10:58:00 Stock belt drive on a 4spd tops out at 94mph at 6500rpm redline... Yer' only about 4k rpm in 4th at 60mph... You won't hit redline in 4th,... but, it should do better than 70 in 3rd... ... around 85 to 90 in 4th before you run out of power... Twist that wrist... ;D... http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt82/serowbot/rerun/4spd.jpg |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by nickythegreek on 05/11/15 at 11:05:41 Do you still have the stock belt drive or has the bike been converted to use a chain? Have you used a speedometer app on your phone to verify that you are getting a correct reading out of the stock speedo? Are you wide open throttle in 6th when you are getting the 60mph reading? |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by engineer on 05/11/15 at 11:05:53 Has the bike been modified in any way that you can see? Does it have a belt drive or did someone put on a sprocket and chain setup? A stock Savage is fairly quick around town and should easily go well beyond 60 mph. I can't remember what the top end is on my bike, probably a little over 85 mph and some people report numbers higher than that. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/11/15 at 11:10:49 Stock belt drive. No I'm not wide open, but it gets really loud. I'm probably just scared. Yesterday it read 57 and my dad said he was going 60 and I was keeping up, and it was really loud but still not wide open. I could have gone further but I guess I am afraid of "breaking" the engine. No I have not tried android speedo but I have thought about it this weekend. I'll try that. It does seem loud though. Maybe its just me . it also backfires when I roll off the throttle at those speeds ( if I roll off pretty quick, if I slow throlle slow its fine" ;D |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by nickythegreek on 05/11/15 at 11:16:57 It might start to scream at you but as you continue to twist the throttle but you should be able to feel the additional power. Vibration will probably continue to get worse as well. I have had my s40 over 90mph and regularly cruise at 70. Putting on a dyna muffler and rejetting your carb should help with some sound and backfiring. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by jcstokes on 05/11/15 at 12:24:54 Are you still running the stock muffler? Some modified mufflers, or straight pipes will be stupidly loud. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/11/15 at 16:14:54 Stock muffler. Might bring it in for a tune up to local shop, just so they can look over everything. If they come out and say that I am afraid of just wailing it and make it scream, then I'll feel better. today it was kind of chilly, and I had it at 45 and still pulling in 3rd, not full throttle. I assume If I was in 4th I could easily pass 60-65 today. Maybe it runs slow when its very humid and hot out like it was yesterday. Everything is stock on it. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Serowbot on 05/11/15 at 16:33:32 A tune-up?,... really no such thing on a single cylinder with electronic ignition... They'll change yer' spark plug and charge you $100... Tune-up, carb work, vale jobs,... none of it will decrease the rpm's at high speeds... That is a fixed ratio... engine pulses to wheel rotation... Just twist the throttle... (if the rpm's scare you... run it at 60 in 3rd, for a few minutes... then, 4th will sound lazy and easy...)... Believe me,... at anything under 50mph, you are lugging the engine in 4th... Just get used to the engine running in it's stride... |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/11/15 at 16:39:17 You're right. I guess I should stop being a girl thingy and just ride it. Its hard to hurt these engines as it is, I'm just paranoid. Lol I'm used to the Chinese scooter I used to ride which was very crappy and would stall half the time, so I'm not used to a proper bike. I keep assuming there's a problem when there isn't haha |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Serowbot on 05/11/15 at 17:27:51 That's right... As long as you don't try to go 60 in 1st,... you won't hurt this bike with rpm's... You'll get more damage by lugging it, or having your idle speed too low....(it needs some rpm to keep oil pressure up)... So, no lopey slow idle... you want a smooth steady purr... ...and, check your oil level every tankful if you do much running over 70mph... It will use a little oil at those speeds...that's normal... |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Kris01 on 05/11/15 at 19:21:52 A taller rear tire (140/90-15) will make a world of difference. It will drop your RPMs only by about 200 or so but your butt and your ear will think it's ~1000. My bike seems much smoother and quieter with the 140/90. Plus, your speedo will be more accurate. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Oldfeller on 05/11/15 at 20:24:49 MMMmmmmmm ..... lemme see here ..... Gots an 1987 year model that is 28 years old at this point in time, with no mods and a NOISY stock muffler (rotted out internally most likely) .... .... sucker jest won't rev up past 60 mph unless he really really works on it. First question -- are you still running the 28 year old stock vac petcock ???? Has the air filter ever been cleaned/changed ???? He's running in essence a straight pipe while sucking his gas through a 28 year old stock vac petcock and an unknown possibly clogged up air filter. ........ mmmmm ???? What comes to mind boys and girls? I'd get him to blow out or replace his air filter and TEST/REPLACE his petcock (get a Raptor preferably) before I'd try to tell him anything else, because until those two thing are right you are off chasing them durn butterflies again. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by jcstokes on 05/12/15 at 00:27:19 If the bike's done 19000 miles you may wish to consider going to the tech section, go to page 7 and go to the fourth post from the bottom about what a loose cam chain tensioner sounds like. If your bike doesn't make this noise, it may be worth your while to inspect the tensioner. There is a good post on page one of the tech section on how to do this, but don't attempt it unless you are comfortable with tools. If you are going to try the bike out you should be able to change out of third at 50 to 55 mph and go from there. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/12/15 at 03:22:59 Same petcock, I've ordered a new air filter, would be here in a couple days |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Dave on 05/12/15 at 03:40:26 Where do you live? If there is another forum member local they could come by and make sure your bike is operating normal and ready for higher speeds. Sometimes the clutch can slip if folks have used car oils with friction modifiers.....and that would allow the rpm to climb as you applied more throttle. (Go to your Control Panel and change your setting so your home town shows up when you post). |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/12/15 at 05:26:51 This morning I had my bike at 50 and still pulling in 3r,meaning I could have gone further in third, when I went to 4th I Was still pulling and hit 60, and could have gone faster easily. Had to slow down before I got too close to the car in front of me. I think it likes to run in the cool temps better than the higher 70/80s, yesterday it was chilly and it ran great as well. 50-55 in 3rd before I entered 4th. The engine sounds fine, I know what the cam chain tensioner is and I don't think its the issue. There is a noise but its just the sound of the headlight rattling. A lose heat shield and the actual sound if the engine ( you can hear the piston and gearsmoving at idle up close as well as when in riding, but it isn't an inconsistent knock that would suspect a bad tensioner) overall I think its fine, I just need to rev it more! |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/12/15 at 05:59:01 I've ordered this petcock when I painted my tank a few weeks ago, but didn't know how to work the odd looking filter as its non vaccume. Says its compatible with savage. Brand new, could I put this on and would it benefit? Its non vaccum |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by bobert_FSO on 05/12/15 at 06:26:51 You might want to eliminate the fuel filter. There has been a lot of anecdotal evidence on this site that Savages can be finicky about inline fuel filters. Unless your tank is a rusty, scaly mess inside there is no need for it. The little screens on the petcock should be enough block anything big enough to cause a carburetor/fuel issue. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by bobert_FSO on 05/12/15 at 06:33:24 It's interesting that you got the petcock as a kit. Is it a genuine Yamaha petcock? There are chinese knockoffs that have a smaller diameter outlet nipple and don't pass as much fuel as the real thing. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/12/15 at 06:34:16 Sounds like a solid plan. I'll put it on this weekend. Also, whenever I turn the engine off and park it, I turn the petcock to reserve. Previous owner said to do it so the carb doesnt flood. I know the middle positions requries a vaccum to suck fuel in, its just a habit. Does this do anything or dies it not matter turning it to reserve when its off? |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/12/15 at 06:35:22 Its not genuine, its a no name. I mean I can still use it right? It says its a non vaccume, is this alright? Is the stock petcock non vaccume as well? |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by bobert_FSO on 05/12/15 at 06:55:56 If it works, it works. Recommendations on this site are to use genuine Yamaha, as some people have had problems with the knockoffs not passing enough fuel or developing leaks. RE turning to reserve when parked. That does NOT shut off fuel to the carb. It is the same result as leaving the petcock in the ON position. You need to manually turn it to OFF. The idea of all petcock valves (vacuum or manual) is to cut off the fuel supply to the carb. This is to keep gasoline from flooding the carb or crankcase or your floor in case the carb float valve doesn't properly shut off fuel to the float bowl. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Dave on 05/12/15 at 07:07:22 That is the kit offered by Windsor Cycles....SuperThumper is the fellows name on this forum. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Manual-Fuel-Petcock-Kit-1986-2015-Suzuki-650-Savage-LS650-Kawasaki-440-LTD-/251718750762?hash=item3a9b9b522a&vxp=mtr It is a not genuine Yamaha.....it is no better or worse than the other Chinese petcocks. The outlet is a bit smaller than the genuine Yamaha part....and I agree that you should not be using a fuel filter as the outlets are too small to pass fuel/air properly. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by verslagen1 on 05/12/15 at 07:09:42 565B56514640340 wrote:
By George I think he's got it! |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Oldfeller on 05/12/15 at 09:06:27 Makes you feel good when the newbies finally start offering good advice, now doesn't it? Now that the current petcock mess of the week has been handled, how 'bout taking that oily greasy gas smelling mess out of the cafe and put it back in RSD where it belongs? I'm getting ready to eat my croissant steak, egg and cheese and even the very thought of stale gas and leaky petcocks is taking my appetite away --- plus Alice is complaining about her floors getting messed up again (yer scooter is dripping stuff on the floor). :) |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/12/15 at 10:06:18 Ordered a raptor petcock. Alls well should make it run better than it already does |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Art Webb on 05/12/15 at 10:30:44 now you're cookin with gas |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/12/15 at 13:31:44 well coming home today, In third at 45 it was jumping forward a bit at high revs, so I went to 4th. Cam home and there was oil on the left side cooling fins in the middle of the head. Its been leaking when I rev high a lot since I got it, previous owner said it did it when he owned it but its no big deal just let it weep, as long as the oil level is fine its fine. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by jachase1980 on 05/12/15 at 14:02:04 73756463637239383837010 wrote:
ride what speed makes you comfortable, and ride safe |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by 01suzsavage on 05/12/15 at 14:02:45 I'm 225lbs and i've had my 01 savage up to 95mph with no problem. You have a mechanical issue if your bike only goes 60. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/12/15 at 15:21:31 If I check the cam tensioner, what benefit is this. 19000 miles, could this be the problem? do I have to buy a new tensioner or can I adjust it if its too far out, and how do I do this? |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/12/15 at 15:48:35 At 19,000 it's either been dealt with or is in danger of destruction. The Verslavy tensioner is the way to get the rest of the miles from the chain and I probably wouldn't start it again till I know.. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/12/15 at 15:54:56 I am going to put on the fake raptor 660 petcock on for now, see if it gives any performance upgrade. I dont feel like spending over a hundred for the new tension-er as I paid 450 for the bike itself. When it revs really high, now that I can think of it it sort of hesitates as if it inst getting enough fuel, so I feel putting in new petcock on for now it will better the performance. Say I drain the oil and look at the cam chain tension er and its too far out, what do I do fro there? |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/12/15 at 15:58:16 What happens If I run the engine on prime instead of the normal on position? |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/12/15 at 16:15:01 The stock tensioner literally comes apart. I think I remember it happening to one guy who didn't ruin his engine. I'm sure of two that destroyed theirs. Its a lot worse than just a bad day. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/12/15 at 17:04:49 Say I open it up, and it looks fine and is at the correct measurement? Then what? If its off, then what do I do, how can I adjust it and fix it? |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Serowbot on 05/12/15 at 17:21:52 Read this... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1191167029 PS.. moved to RSD,... that's the place for Savage related problems... Cafe' is for general chit-chat... ;)... |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Neilap on 05/12/15 at 21:53:20 Im 350 lbs and 6'4 and I top out at 87 on the straights iv had access too. open it up. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/13/15 at 10:12:04 I turned the air fuel screw out 1.5 turns, seems lime it took a bit on backfire on decel away. A bit is still there. But it seemed to run like 5% better |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by HondaLavis on 05/13/15 at 11:13:10 If you open it up and the tensioner is fine, just close it back up. You might need a new gasket if the old one doesn't come off nicely. I'm not sure if you could use liquid gasket instead of buying a paper one, but maybe someone else around here knows. If the tensioner is out too far or popped apart, then count your lucky stars that the engine didn't grenade. The verslavy tensioner might seem expensive in comparison to the initial price of your bike, but it's one of the very few things you'd actually have to buy/replace on this thing. Think of it as a long term investment. ;) |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/13/15 at 11:57:44 Its running fine now, could I just wait until next oil change to open I Up the cover and look at the tensioner? No oddnoises besides the sound of the engine itself ( the valves and gears etc) |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by jcstokes on 05/13/15 at 13:29:07 You can hold your hand on the front of the timing cover with the engine running, this gives some indication of a loose chain but hopefully one of the techies will tell you exactly where to hold it. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by verslagen1 on 05/13/15 at 15:05:27 7D7B6A6D6D7C373636390F0 wrote:
When the semi runs over your bike (hopefully it's parked of course) are you going to say "I only paid $450 for it" or are you going to argue for the replacement cost? Feel the top of the clutch cover right behind the oil filter. If you feel a tappin'... it's time. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/13/15 at 15:52:25 No tapping, just the sound of valves doing their job. I guess its fine for now. New air filter and raptor petcock this weekend should make it run heaps better. I've had it at 62 with android speedo. At that speed it jerked a bit so I slowed down. Felt like it was sort if starving for fuel. Raptor should eliminate this. Air filter as well, as I don't think its been replaced at all. But as for the cam, seems fine no tapping on case or nothing. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Serowbot on 05/13/15 at 16:53:09 You can probably wait until the next oil change to check the cam adjuster... ...but,... Don't come crying to us if it goes before that... They don't necessarily give any audible or performance warning... The plunger will just fall out of the cylinder, and ricochet around the side case until it either gets wedged somewhere or shoots out of the engine... Without a modified (pinned) adjuster from Verslagen, these items are time bombs... Hand grenades... ;)... ...and at 19k miles, yours is set to blow... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/13/15 at 17:04:03 Thank You for posting that. I posted something kinda like that and deleted it. I didn't wanna come across as pushy, but, I couldn't even start it unless I knew that the tensioner is okay. At 19,000 miles? Unless the PO told me that the chain was replaced and the miles on it when they did it, my heart would be in my throat. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/13/15 at 17:23:15 I feel like everybody is trying to sell everybody the verslavy... |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Serowbot on 05/13/15 at 18:03:22 3E38292E2E3F7475757A4C0 wrote:
Then, feel free to ignore the advice... |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/13/15 at 18:14:39 Its not that I'm ignoring it, I'll check next oil change. I'm just saying it all SOUNDS healthy, and from what I've gathered its only a worry if you suspect something is wrong with the tensioner ie a rattling or tapping. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/13/15 at 18:24:42 Well, CRAP! There goes my commission on That sale. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Dave on 05/13/15 at 18:31:41 6660717676672C2D2D22140 wrote:
Some rattle and tap for a bit.....and if the plunger comes out of the housing the rattle stops rather abruptly. The walk back home can be peaceful as well. ::) |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/13/15 at 18:50:21 I don't have $175 to spend on something I might not need. Not everyone who owns a savage has had to replace it past 20k. It's a hot or a miss. Guys on YouTube show theirs with more mikes and they run fine |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by savage_skulls_ on 05/13/15 at 23:48:27 Gotta chime in here. These guys REALLY know what they're talking about. I have yet to get a versy myself but it is definitely high up on my priority list and I'm only a little over 5000 miles on a 2003. I raise 2 kids alone so it's hard for me to throw any money around. The way our bikes are made the versy isn't something you "might not need" it is something that is a must on our bikes if you want to push any kind of life out of her. If you just want to keep her for a few months to a year than sale her off for parts or send her to the metal graveyard, then sure you might not need it. Other than that I wouldn't look at as something extra and unnecessary for the bike. I would look at it as part of the overall cost of the bike because you'll need it sooner rather than later. Let's just hope the 2 of us are able to swing that investment before that fuse blows on the grenade suzuki stuck in our crankcase. Best of luck to ya man |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by jcstokes on 05/14/15 at 01:16:41 I well understand your position about the affordability of the Versy. It would, however, do no harm to check the thing according to the instructions in various posts. If you found that the tensioner was well stretched you could at least stop using the bike until you could afford the replacement tensioner, thus saving you potential angst. If you wish to carry on riding perhaps consider lightly trafficked roads. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by gizzo on 05/14/15 at 01:37:11 My Savage has 32000 km when I bought it. That's 19800 miles. I rode it for about 500km then pulled the side cover off. It had 2mm of plunger left before it sprung out. I'd be looking at it....and make your own one until you have the coin for a Versy tensioner. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/14/15 at 03:31:01 Finding out today if it's been replaced or fixed before. Having my dad ask the previous owners The fuel mixture screw had already been screwed out so its possible some engine work has been done |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by verslagen1 on 05/14/15 at 07:43:43 787E6F6868793233333C0A0 wrote:
Send yours before it gets damaged to get upgraded for $75. Or replace your chain for $110 every 20K miles. Or replace your engine for $900 whenever it blows up. You know the choice is yours. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by greenmonster on 05/14/15 at 13:29:21 Okay, I can't take it anymore. You don't have to get the Verslavy. You will have to do a cam chain mod. (Or as Vers said, replace either the chain or engine) Verslagen1 does a really good job of this mod but you can make one yourself with a piece of flat bar, a drill, and a welder. The thing that everyone on here wants you to do is check! I checked mine at least half a dozen times before I made my mod. It's not nearly as pretty as Verslagen1's work but it's gotten me over 50,000 klicks. If you don't have a welder, flatbar, and a drill... $75 is a heck of a deal for the long term. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by botticelli on 05/14/15 at 14:27:58 With this engine design... it is when, NOT if |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/14/15 at 15:04:35 Put an new air filter on today, got it up to 65 and was still pulling at that speed, heading towards 70 easily. When my raptor petcock comes I think it will run a heap better. My dad talked to a mechanic he works with and he said when he worked in motorcycles, nobody came in reporting the problem, he said 'just because you see it on youtube doesn't mean they all do it" Well REGARDLESS, we are going to check it on Saturday just to be safe. If its fine, then its fine Ill just put the cover back on and be good. I'm not disregarding that its a possible issue. The guy said on the savages you're more than likely hearing the valves, and that's the only noise I hear. Front brake rides on the wheel a bit so it makes a scraping sound at high speeds but Ill fix that some point. Ill check it day after tommorow |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/14/15 at 15:42:19 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhtQUNN1pxc This is a video I just took of my engine. I don't know about you guys, but it sounds pretty good and better than some videos of people's savages on YouTube that are brand new. Many newer ones on YouTube are more rattly and metallic sounding. Again, no obvious cam noise (I am checking it as soon as the cover gasket comes in) or is replacing the gasket necessary if I am just going to check the tensioner? |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by raydawg on 05/14/15 at 16:58:48 4A4C5D5A5A4B0001010E380 wrote:
Lad, you have more issues than not having the scratch to buy a versy......or the $$$ to buy a clue from Vanna. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/14/15 at 17:18:26 What does that even mean |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/14/15 at 17:47:38 Your frustration is understandable, Ray, but the dude IS gonna have a look inside. This is THE weak link in the engine, and nearly always fatal. The petcock, that is just an annoyance. Aside from those two issues, ya gotta be keeping the valve lash in spec, no real reason to not stay stock. Unless you just want to wring a bit more out of it. Or that VW chirp the muffler makes is just disgusting,,, |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/14/15 at 18:05:20 When I open it up, do I have to replace eany gasket or anything ircsn I just put the cover back on. And if it is too far out,what mods can I do to fix it myself? Someone mentioned you can diy with a welder, which is available my dad is a heavy equipment mechanic and has a truck of tools |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/14/15 at 18:12:06 See what you have, no reason to explain how to fix a problem that is yet to be found. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/14/15 at 18:16:50 Has anybody checked out the video I posted,it gives a good idea what mine sounds like. Advice or thoughts on how it runs |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/14/15 at 18:59:33 I did. Hard to tell about the idle.. near the end I thought it sounded odd. Like almost a sizzle, but it only lasted a second. And it's just a recording and it was in motion and not held near the engine, open it up. That's not gonna change unless you can get the PO to tell you the chain has been replaced and at what mileage. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by jcstokes on 05/14/15 at 21:49:52 Sounds ok to me, some of the "sizzle" JOG2 referred to maybe caused by the fact that you are running a cone filter rather than the stock air box. Saturday's exercise should give you peace of mind one way or the other. Do post a photo of the tensioner and your measurement when you open it up. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/15/15 at 05:25:41 Probably the cone and also the crappy mic in my phone breaking up. The high pitched rumble whine from the exhaustvnear the end in real life is just the exhaust which sounds beautiful in real life, phone doesn't do exhaust sound justice. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Serowbot on 05/15/15 at 06:59:45 I think your bike sounds pretty good... ;)... What you're not understanding is, the cam adjuster doesn't give any warning... There is no noise until it falls out, then it's too late... Have your dad modify your adjuster with a pinned slot and an extension... Like this... Once it is pinned,... it will give you an audible;e warning,... because the plunger can no longer fall out... The chain will just get loose and you will hear rattling... You won't get that warning with the stock adjuster... it will sound fine,.. and suddenly fall out... This 1/4 pound of hardened steel will shoot around the inside of the sidecase causing irreparable damage and you will need a new engine... Follow me?... If dad can't get it done,.. send your adjuster to Versy... Once this mod is done, your engine is as bulletproof as any motorcycle made... 'tll then, it ain't.. ;)... http://www.savageriders.com/verslagen/CamChainClub/zipd-verslavy.jpg |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/15/15 at 07:40:22 How do we mod it? |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Serowbot on 05/15/15 at 07:46:17 I JUST TOLD YOU!... Have your dad read it... |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/15/15 at 07:53:15 Say I check it and its at like 11-12 mm, then what can I just put the cover back? Will the gasket be able to be reused? |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Serowbot on 05/15/15 at 08:09:16 Whether or not a gasket can be reused is very much dependent on how it comes off... In your case,.. if you try to do it yourself,... it will be destroyed... |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/15/15 at 08:40:08 Anything to do in removal so salvage it or no? I ordered a gasket. Should be here next week...could I wait till it cones to check?. Don't rip my head off I'm just saying I use my bike to go everywhere and a week without riding is a while. "Well if you wait you could brwk engine and be done with riding forever" yes you're all right. Is it Gary teed I'm destroying the gasket? |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by verslagen1 on 05/15/15 at 08:53:51 3533222525347F7E7E71470 wrote:
I've been able to save a few, but if it's been on there for some time then most likely it'll tear rather than stay whole. I get it up on a lift so I can eye ball the entire joint. remove all the bolts, gently pry one end off, then the other. check the gasket, does it zig zag between case and cover? Take a small screwdriver or a pick and gently separate the gasket from the case or cover, your choice. If it stays whole, you've won, 1 or 2 tears can be repaired with rtv. and it may leak anyway. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/15/15 at 09:37:20 If I can salvage it, good. If it comes apart a bit. I'll repair it somehow then put it back on and deal with a slight leak until new gasket comes before thursday |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/15/15 at 09:53:16 You might not wreck the gasket,but, if its a factory gasket, you're Gonna. The one You put in, you'll decide if, where and how much goo to use. It CAN be done with none, but, I did that last time and I had to tighten the clutch cover bolts tighter than I felt comfortable doing. The Right goo is important, not automotive gasket maker, no RTV, NAMES ARE out there( oops, caplox)) Next time you need a gasket,call a shop that works on multiple brandds. Some indy shops have a gasket maker. Like a printer, but it cuts out gaskets. Walk.in, get it, go. I've had good luck getting jets and advice, they mounted tireson rims, I put rims on bike.. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Gary_in_NJ on 05/15/15 at 09:58:23 Do it once, cry once. Do it right, replace the gasket. Make sure you get the old gasket off from both surfaces. I like to use a flat blade for that job. As for the down time, look at it this way; if you get the cover off and see that the tensioner is darn-near the end of its travel then you'll be waiting for parts anyway. Don't be in a rush to get it back together, the goal is to get it back together and have it STAY together. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/15/15 at 10:45:33 Is permatex motorcycle gasket maker a good solution? If the old gaket rips in half or something I could just repair or or just apply a new line of the goo. Back to the tensioner, I've seen replacement tensioners as a Suzuki part. Could I buy that? I could buy a new cam chain all together and have my local shop install it and pay for labor. Apparently its a good shop and they get work done quick. Rather than butchering the tensioner I could replace the actual chain. And from what I understand once you put a new chain the tensioner goes back to normal. Or no? |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Art Webb on 05/15/15 at 10:51:57 Replacing the chain will push the tensioner back in....for now it won't keep the tensioner from grenading when that chain, too, stretches replacing with a stock tensioner will do nothing to fix the root problem: a tensioner that is very poorly designed getting the Versy will extend the life of your extant chain, and the chain(s) to follow It's your choice, fix it right, take half measures, or waste time doing a 'repair' that does nothing Or ride it till it blows up, then remotor it or get another bike oh, and Yamabond or 3bond works well I believe (somebody correct me quick if that's wrong) |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/15/15 at 11:05:30 What did people do before versey came around. They worked around it. Replacing the chain , by default since it hasn't blown up in 19000 miles, a new chain will not blow up for another 19000. New chain rather than versey will work as well. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Arnold on 05/15/15 at 11:27:23 When you replace the tensioner with a Versy on the old stretched chain, isnt it trouble down the line? Just asking. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Art Webb on 05/15/15 at 11:29:33 63657473736229282827110 wrote:
good point a more involved repair, but it will last a bit don't be too sure about 19k mikes though, the chain stretch seems to have more to do with heat cycles than actual miles, so short trips will wear it out faster thus is why folks talk about checking the tensioner, the first time, at 5k, because a few tensioners have gone south at less that 10k |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Art Webb on 05/15/15 at 11:32:08 31243F3C3C35243522500 wrote:
No, the versy will work on a new chain as well as an old one, from what I understand |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Arnold on 05/15/15 at 11:52:08 Wouldnt the chain eventually reach the end of its life, or does it simply not happen on the life of this bike? |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Art Webb on 05/15/15 at 11:58:53 Of course. Any chain will eventually reach it's limit of stretch, and then it slips and the cam / crank timing will go to hell the idea of the versy is simply to get all the useful life out of the chain, as the factory (mis)design of the tensioner does not permit this and, as any mechanic worthy of holding a wrench will tell you, a newer chain will stretch more quickly than an older one the other point of the Versy is it will not come apart and destroy your entire engine. The factory unit will, and long before the chain is actually beyond it's wear limit |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by verslagen1 on 05/15/15 at 12:20:20 6673686B6B62736275070 wrote:
At the limit of the stock tensioner, the chain has stretched half the allowed limit. You can accept that replace a half used chain or get a verslavy. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by HondaLavis on 05/15/15 at 12:33:01 +1 4C5F595A484F4F2D0 wrote:
If your average Joe Motorcycle bought a savage and read both the owner's manual and the clymers manual, he would not find any interval for servicing the cam chain. The owner's manual maintenance table only goes to 15K miles. His only method of finding out would be through regular servicing at a dealership mechanic who might tell him the replacement interval for the cam chain. When the time comes, he would pay several hundred dollars for this major service and his bike wouldn't blow up, so long as he took it in a bit early. Here, where we have a forum of mechanically inclined enthusiasts, we have revealed empirical evidence of the natural wear and failure patterns of both the tensioner and the chain. People have researched to show that the chain's wear limit extends far beyond it's replacement interval. If the chain is still good and expensive to replace, then why replace it? So the good people here decided to modify the tensioner to get the full life out of the chain. It's been field tested for several years now with excellent results. It does exactly what it's supposed to. If you own your bike for 60K miles, you could replace the chain 4 times over the bike's life. Maybe that's $1,600. OR you could mod the tensioner and the cost will be cut in half with all of the reliability. It's your call, man. Nobody here wants to force you into anything, but we DO want you to understand why we all think this is your best option. ;) |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Gary_in_NJ on 05/15/15 at 12:45:32 20352E2D2D24352433410 wrote:
When the chain reaches it's maximum length you will hear chain slap in the case. This is a far better alternative than a failed tensioner. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Tomi on 05/15/15 at 12:56:45 37243C21243222450 wrote:
Lad, you have more issues than not having the scratch to buy a versy......or the $$$ to buy a clue from Vanna. [/quote] =================================================== Thank you for saying that. I was biting my tongue real hard. :-X |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/15/15 at 13:11:59 Ill just find out when I open it up |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/15/15 at 14:39:01 As a diy fix, if its too far out could me and father weld an exte ion where the hole on the plug is and put a new hole in it, so it goes back in normal ? Could all this be done in a weekend, put some gasket maker in and wait the 24 hours and be back on the road? |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by jcstokes on 05/15/15 at 15:08:42 You need to ask yourselves honestly about your welding skills and if you honestly feel competent and not amateurish with whatever welding plant you have then you can proceed. Be careful disassembling the cover as some bolts are longer than others take digital photos all the way. You could also fabricate the extension and take it and the tensioner to a welding shop and have the weld done professionally. You should be able to buy thin gasket paper at an auto parts supply house and make a rubbing of the gasket on ordinary paper with a soft pencil, you could transfer this to the gasket paper and very very very carefully hand cut one. You will need small wad punches for the holes and because of the thin surfaces be prepared for a couple of failures. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/15/15 at 15:51:34 He has a stick welder. In his opinion its better to just buy a new chain and tensioner and install it ourselves rather than try to weld it. I know its not going to fix the problem that the plunger will still come out, but hey. New chain will give us at least another thousands of miles |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by verslagen1 on 05/15/15 at 21:17:07 If the plunger isn't out more than 19mm, it won't be ovaled and you can just replace the chain. Take a good look at the rear guide, if the plastic is very cracked or worn, replace it. The plastic can come off and plug up the oil pump. and replacing it will make the chain last longer too. listen to pops, he's probably older than I am and within arms reach :-? |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/16/15 at 04:53:48 Alrighty then, thank you |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/16/15 at 11:57:12 19mm out. Were going to weld on and mod it today ourselves |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/16/15 at 13:26:39 Since earlier the cost of the Verslavy was more than what you could do, now would be a good time to weld a tab on the tensioner.The chain has miles left in it. That would give you time to save up for a chain and cam ( if you want to get a bit more performance outta the thing ) and give you time to get familiar with how to work on it by reading the stuff on here. FWIW, you've been the hardest person to get to listen and trust the people here,who have more experience with these bikes than you'll find in most dealerships.in the future I won't be virtually begging you to listen. Several of us went to great lengths to get you to do what we knew needed done. I think you owe the forum an apology and I think you should tell them that you will be willing to listen to the experts they are. We have carb guys who just Know. I listened to them and my bike ran great,, without these guys, Verslagen and Serowbot in particular, and possibly others who have tired of the forum, sold the bike, for whatever reason, moved on.. I don't remember that far back that well. For all I know im giving credit to people who weren't here when I did the work. Point is, I listened to people who owned and modified and tuned and wrung a bit more power out of these bikes. Nobody here gets paid when Verslagen sells a part. I don't recommend them because he buys me beer, but because they allow a rider to do a simple,cheap job and ride. Now, when you get to End of the chain life using the Verslavy, I would be surprised if it's not time for new guides. A cam, new chain and guides, Dyna exhaust, I had a fork brace and really, I think that it mattered, Rowboat, not on board, Another thing to be aware of is the spark plug sits in a cavity that gets crud in it. If you just pull the plug without blowing it clear, junk can fall in and screw up the cylinder and rings. Get a long, say 4 inch or more, piece of metal the right thickness. Grind the end to fit the radius of the tensioner. Grind each part into a flat tipped V shape. Put it in a vise, tack both sides, flip it ,tack again. Keep it straight, welding draws things, Grind it, inspect the weld. The load is mostly pressure and then you get vibration. Really, I m not a good welder, but this would not scare me. Now, you've got a handle. Figure out how far from the original hole the new one needs to be. Drill, then cut the excess off, Dress the end up, Fabrication requires certain tools. I expect anyone who has a welder also has a 4 inch grinder and hopefully a handheld grinder with a cutoff disk. A bench grinder is handy thing,too. Some have replaced the spring in the tensioner with a lighter one. I d wanna do that. Long explanation as to why. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by gizzo on 05/16/15 at 14:18:18 Going by that photo, you only just got away with it. Good luck with the modding. +1 to JoG's comments above. These guys know what they're talking about and I'd take their advice on matters Savage over a dealer's mechanic any day. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Kris01 on 05/16/15 at 14:21:45 All I can say is... WOW! |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/16/15 at 14:26:24 Here's the final product. Going out now to test ride it |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Dave on 05/16/15 at 14:30:38 And it only took 7 pages of discussion. (When the time comes........do we have enough bandwith to discuss that the head gasket is not a blown - but the rubber head plug is causing the oil leak?) |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by verslagen1 on 05/16/15 at 14:53:12 Good job and it looks like you were able to save the gasket too. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Gary_in_NJ on 05/16/15 at 15:03:11 Looking at the photo, the tension or was exactly as people said it would be. Amazing how experience works. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/16/15 at 16:06:33 Half of me knew we were going to fix it. The other half was telling me that I should buy it new. The third half was going to make me ride it until I broke. Thanks for convincing me to fix it. Now I can ride with a clear mind. ;) |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/16/15 at 16:10:31 Sorry for doubting you all. Really. Without this forum I would have continued riding until the plunger came out and then my first bike would probably have been my last for a while. :) |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/16/15 at 16:54:44 1D243F256667560 wrote:
What is it that makes you feel this Wow.. ? |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Kris01 on 05/16/15 at 17:46:09 Not to be insulting, but it took 8 pages of convincing. It's a shame that youth is wasted on the young. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/16/15 at 17:48:44 The first 2 pages were on other problems, the idea of the cam chain came up on page two. Throughout the forum other issues were brought up. Not to mention most of the back and forth regarding the cam chain tensioner were me just asking question before I jump into and and screw something up. I wanted a solid idea before I took it upon myself to fix it. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by oldNslow on 05/16/15 at 18:01:25 Quote:
So, how did the bike run once you got it back together ? |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Kris01 on 05/16/15 at 18:01:33 Once again, please don't think I'm arguing or being insulting. Tone sometimes can be hard to read in a message board. Before I posted a question I would search extensively for an answer. Since this is your first motorcycle, you probably have a lot to learn. Spend 90% of your time researching and learning. The other 10% you can ask questions. There is a ton of info on this site that can be learned from the click of a mouse. Chances are your question has already been asked. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Dave on 05/16/15 at 18:11:29 5B5242455E5A5442310 wrote:
Read post number 14 at the bottom of the first page again.....that is the first time the tensioner was mentioned. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/16/15 at 18:57:49 Ran good, actually a bit better. I don't know how to describe the advantage. It was just smoother. Maybe its placebo. When I pit the raptor petcock on I'm hoping I'll getbeter fuel flow which will in turn ad a few mph on the top end |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/16/15 at 19:47:58 What's your top speed now? What is it doing that indicates the engine is using fuel faster than it flows into the bowl? Have you tried putting it on prime and see if it acts different? |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Dave on 05/17/15 at 03:53:04 5A5C4D4A4A5B1011111E280 wrote:
The Raptor is not necessarily a Performance Modification...unless your stock vacuum petcock is already failing. Both petcocks will flow enough fuel to keep the engine running properly when they are working properly. The problem with the stock vacuum petcock arises when the diaphragm either becomes dissolved from ethanol fuel....or becomes stiff with age. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/17/15 at 04:38:35 I had it up at 67, still heading towards 70 before I slowed down. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/17/15 at 06:50:22 5056474040511A1B1B14220 wrote:
And not one word about the questions iasked,, |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/17/15 at 07:21:48 You asked how it ran. I said good. I can feel it doesn't bog as much as it did when revving high and shifting like it did. That's how I can explain the difference in performance. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/17/15 at 07:34:10 7B646265787F4E7E4E76646823110 wrote:
And your reply Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Reply #119 - Today at 12:38:35 Alert Board Moderator about this Post! Quote I had it up at 67, still heading towards 70 before I slowed down. Not even almost answers. Tell ya what, I don't wanna be responsible for running you off, so, iim gonna just let the other guys guide you. I clearly know nothing, so you're not hurt if I just shut up. You built your own tensioner mod, so, Verslagen won't be sending me my five bucks, I think im just gonna let you learn from others, and there are plenty who know everything I know and more. You're just frustrating to me. Good luck. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/17/15 at 08:31:25 Sorry? I never said you knew nothing, and I thanked you all for the help. You think I'm being a thingy when I''m not. Why are we arguing anyway. geez So what I didn't answer about the fuel in the bowl, I don't know about that yet. You asked how it ran after the mod, your first question. Then I answered by telling you the speeds I ran at. That was your answer. I didn't answer the other two because I didn't know. Maybe next time Ill be like "For your other two questions, there is no answer' so its clarified for you. what do you want from me? I took your guys' advice, and it worked. That's all. Never did I mention that you guys get commission from verslagen either, don't know where that came from. :P |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Serowbot on 05/17/15 at 09:00:15 Don't worry about it... We are sometimes curt to noobie concerns, because we have been here so long and we have repeated advice so many times... You have saved yourself from a bad engine problem... That's good... As far as top speed,... I wouldn't worry about it... The bike will break any legal speed limit, and as a new rider, and a younger person, you're safer and you'll save a fortune in insurance by staying within the speed limit... Rubber Side Down,.. as they say... |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/17/15 at 09:41:44 Thank you Serewbot |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Serowbot on 05/17/15 at 16:57:40 43455453534209080807310 wrote:
Wheew!... That came close to... "Sewerbot"... :-/... Dodged a bullet there... ;D... |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/17/15 at 17:01:34 darn my spelling |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by gizzo on 05/17/15 at 17:26:11 yeah, speeding's overrated unless you're in a hurry. If you ride too fast people can't see how cool you look ;). Rode a KTM Superduke a while back: At 250 kph (go to jail speed) it felt great. At the speed limit (100), pretty dull. It's not worth it to me. I get the same giggles from the Cabbage at 100 as the KTM gave at warp speed. If you hold wide open throttle for several minutes you might find your Savage's actual top speed. It will sound like it's going to fly apart, but it won't. Not now you've fixed the tensioner. Good work and well done. And like Rowboat said, ride safe. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by AsphaltMan on 05/17/15 at 17:48:35 where the hell were you guys for the past three years??? After doing the carb mod, twice, since the first time gave me results I liked, So I went back for seconds... I went nutz trying to figure out why the darn bike kept boggin out and trying to kill me in traffic, before I re adjusted the float to actually FILL the bowl.... Holy smoke what a difference! |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/17/15 at 18:24:29 Yea. I can easily accelerate to 57 within in a few seconds ( the torque on this bike man equates to really fast off the line speed) ...at about 66 I felt I could have opened up a bit more and gotten up to 75 if I held it wide open. Plus 60 on this small bike feels faster than it does in a car or larger bike, so its small size adds a lot of fun factor to riding at those speeds . however 65 is fast enough for me for now haha |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by gizzo on 05/17/15 at 18:31:56 382A293138352D343837590 wrote:
haha! float level, yeah it matters...... ;D |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Kris01 on 05/17/15 at 20:25:32 4A5054565769584B4D4B505D5E5C390 wrote:
Ain't that the truth! :D |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Serowbot on 05/17/15 at 22:00:13 I hit 94mph one time... 6 or 7 years ago... I was chasing my friends, with an 1 1/2 head start, to Patagonia... with a 75 mile head start... I did catch them before they finished lunch,... and got to ride back with them... I have since wondered if I can still do 94,.. or maybe better.... but why?... It's not a speed I want to go... and I don't want the fine... So,... I've never tried again... One day,.. when the wind is with me,.. and the trend is downhill... I may try for the "ton"... ... but,... all things being in order, I may not... It would only be to say I did... And what matter of that?... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by jcstokes on 05/18/15 at 00:20:35 Mr Tebbs, going back to your first post, you mention that you got your "permit" very recently, have you done the American motorcycle safety course? What is the age of your tyres? |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by botticelli on 05/18/15 at 03:39:36 Doing the ton on a bike like this is what makes it magical! It can just almost get there witch makes it awesome! On a bikes that can do it in 2nd or 3rd whats the point? I haven't hit the ton on the savage, yet! I know it can just make it. riding the bike at the limit, just to touch it, that's the magic. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Dave on 05/18/15 at 03:46:39 000D16160B01070E0E0B620 wrote:
I just looked at Serowbot's speed/rpm chart in the tech section. With the known speedometer error and the stock rear tire....you will have to reach an indicated 104.6 mph on the speedometer to actually reach 100 mph. (Your speedometer error may vary). |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Art Webb on 05/18/15 at 08:40:55 unless he has the oversize rear tire, that corrects it :o |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by chzeckmate on 05/18/15 at 15:31:07 Okay so I've got to ask...How unusual is it to have an accurate speedo with the stock tire size? My speedo is spot on accurate. I've checked it with GPS and radar at various speeds and my speedo is dead on. I've seen so many people posting that the speedo isn't accurate with the stock tire. Am I the only one reporting otherwise? By the way it's an '05 if that makes any difference. I just got it about a month ago with 10k miles on it. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/18/15 at 15:53:44 I had an 05 and it wasn't right. Taller rear tire got it close enough I couldn't say that it was not right. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/18/15 at 16:01:00 I have not taken the safety course. Yet. I plan on doing it between getting my permit and license, probably over the summer. I can't get my license until I'm 16 1/2 anyways which will be in November, right when the riding season will be close to over :/. I just got my class m permit 2 weeks ago today, so I've just been getting used to the roads, which has been a blast. Gradually I'm moving to bigger and larger roads and getting acclimated with traffic. To answer your question, I have not taken the course yet and by the looks of it , the tires are in good condition. Old owenr put on a set of nice pirelli tires. They probably cost him close to what I paid for the bike, $450. Good looking tires as well. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by verslagen1 on 05/18/15 at 16:18:46 291610170A0D25630 wrote:
even a busted clock is right twice a day :-? |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by chzeckmate on 05/18/15 at 18:57:03 312235342B2620222976470 wrote:
even a busted clock is right twice a day :-?[/quote] That's true, but a busted clock is ONLY right twice a day. My speedo is right all the time. If my speedo is is malfunctioning is such a way as to display the correct speed all the time then I'd say that's pretty peculiar. There must be others who have accurate speedos...right? |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/18/15 at 19:16:27 And you are certain about the tire size being stock? |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by chzeckmate on 05/18/15 at 19:31:08 756A6C6B7671407040786A662D1F0 wrote:
Pretty sure it's the stock size. It's an IRC 140/80/15 See here http://goo.gl/4pfACO |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/18/15 at 20:02:36 Yeah, sounds right. Well, a taller tire is gonna mess that up, but shave RPM on the road and top speed up.. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Gary_in_NJ on 05/19/15 at 05:47:07 5F59484F4F5E1514141B2D0 wrote:
I didn't realize that you are just 16...no wonder you were so hard to get through to...you know everything already :) (said by a father with a 16 year old). Here's some advice from someone that started dirt riding when I was 8 years old. When I was your age I couldn't wait to get my first street bike. There were no safety courses back then and besides, no one could teach me how to ride anyway - I already had 8 years experience (16 is a very boneheaded age). I learned that dirt riding and street riding are very different. If you can find them, there are street riding books by Keith Code and Lee Parks. These books are the BEST guides in the world. Read their words and then practice their drills. Here are some pointers for you: 1. Turn via counter-steering (push right, go right / push left, go left). It is the ONLY way a single track vehicle turns (gyroscopic pregression). Weight shifting, weighing a peg, pushing you knee into the tank - ALL BULL CRAP. It's counter-steering and counter-steering only. 2. When stopping, the front brake does 75-80% of all the work. It's a rare occurrence that I even touch the rear brake (usually in a turn to correct my line which is an advance technique). Ride with a finger or two covering the brake handle. 3. Cage drivers don't see you, and some of the ones that do resent you and would be happy to ruin your fun. Assume that the guy that looks like he's gonna make a left in front of you will make that left...because chance are he WILL. Slow down at intersections and look for people blowing through the intersection. 4. NEVER drink and ride. 5. Limit your riding in the dark. 6. Always wear a helmet, gloves, jacket and over the ankle boots (preferably without laces). Leather is easy to replace, skin doesn't grow back very nicely. 7. Use all of your lane. When approaching a bend in the road, start at the far side and move towards the apex (center) through the turn. This allows you maximum visibility through the turn to see traffic and potential obstacles and makes the turn more fun as it also allows for more lean angle. 8. Get your braking done PRIOR to the turn. There is no worse feeling than realizing mid-turn that you are carrying too much speed. Grabbing the brake at this point does two things; 1) it reduces the available traction/grip of the front tire because now you're asking it to do two things (turn and stop) and 2) it will stand the bike up, causing you to go wide in the turn and off the road. If you find yourself too fast in a turn the best course of action is to reduce throttle and continue to ride the bike. If there is a good/hard shoulder use that space as you go wide. If you can't go wide, stay in the turn and continue to counter-steer your way out. I'm 52 years old and I love riding today as much as I did when I was your age. Get the basic riding skills down as early as possible and you too can enjoy a life-time of motorcycling. Over the years I've taught many people how to ride (street, MX and trails) and I think that is the most fun part for me. Enjoy. Be safe. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by chzeckmate on 05/19/15 at 07:36:06 I might add that you don't want to let traffic pressure you into riding in a way that makes you uncomfortable. When I was your age I was riding on a two lane highway and the traffic behind me was going faster than I wanted to go. The road was winding and I wanted to take it easy but the car behind me kept riding my fender so I sped up...The next thing I knew I went wide on a curve and into the ditch (#8 on Gary_in_NJ list). Never ride beyond your comfort and skill level. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by KennyG on 05/19/15 at 10:28:38 Gary, I have been riding for 63 years, and I probably counter steer, but I never under stood the following: "1. Turn via counter-steering (push right, go right / push left, go left). It is the ONLY way a single track vehicle turns (gyroscopic pregression). Weight shifting, weighing a peg, pushing you knee into the tank - ALL BULL CRAP. It's counter-steering and counter-steering only." When a rider pushes right is he pushing forward on the left handle bar or pushing down on the right handlebar? I have never understood the phrasing for counter-steering. Kenny G |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Dave on 05/19/15 at 10:38:36 5E707B566774667D150 wrote:
When I first heard of this concept.....it sounded horribly weird and unbelievable to me. I had a bicycle to test the theory on - but a motorcycle works just as well. Go down a smooth, straight road at a comfortable speed. Keep your hand on the throttle, and take your clutch hand (left) off the bars......and using the index finger on your left hand, gently apply a bit of pressure on the left handlebar grip. Be ready for the bike to start turning to toward the centerline....even though you are pushing in the opposite direction. :o Same thing for coming out of a turn....if you apply pressure to the handlebars in the direction you are turning - the bike will stand right up and go straight! We are all doing this without thinking, and it is the only way you can hustle a 800 pound Touring bike around corners.....my 160 pound body can't make it happen by leaning. Once you become aware of how it works....you have the ability to use it more effectively in your riding and you can ride a large bike almost as easily as a small bike. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Serowbot on 05/19/15 at 10:49:09 Regardless of whether you push or pull... What you are doing is inputting pressure in the opposite direction of the turn... You will turn the bars slightly left, to initiate a right turn,.. and left to initiate a right... What this does, is put the contact patch of your front tire, from the center of the tire, to one with diminished circumference on in the direction you are turning. Once you are on that part of the tire, and leaned, your bars will shift to turning right in a right turn,... or left in a left... It's the same reason that a car turning right has slower rotation on right wheels than the left... (if both wheels went the same speed, the car wouldn't turn... it would plow)... I explained that really badly... :-[... |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Gary_in_NJ on 05/19/15 at 10:59:02 Kenny, Before I get into the weeds explaining counter-steering, know this - you're already doing it - you just may not know it. "Push right, go right" means if you apply forward pressure on the right control bar, you will go right. In other words turn left to go right. Don't believe me? Go out for a short ride and get above 25-30 mph (where the handlebar force begins to increase). Push right and go right. Go ahead and try it...I'll wait. Now, if you were on a trike or a quad, pushing right on the right bar WILL cause you to go left...but we're not on a trike or quad. On a single track vehicle (which a motorcycle is) the force or physics involved is gyroscopic precession. In order for a motorcycle to turn, it has to lean into the direction of the turn. The force applied to the bars is acted on at a 90 degree angle from where the force is applied. Any parent that has taught his child to ride a bicycle has seen the effects of counter steering. For six months or a year your child has been riding with training wheels - essentially making the bike a quad (four wheels). The day you remove the training wheels you help your child get up to speed by running along side the bike..you give them that gentle push-off yelling the word "peddle"...they get about 10 feet from you and the bike begins to drift in one direction and they begin to fall in the complete opposite direction. What happened? Simple, the child began a correction in the direction that they wanted, counter-steering for the first time. This caused the exact opposite reaction, they panicked and threw themselves off of the seemingly out of control machine. After a few more tries their brain subconsciously figures out counter-steering and, still shaky, they begin to control the bicycle. Knowing how counter-steering works is essential, especially during emergency maneuvers. This is the very reason motorcyclists will steer right into the object or animal that they are trying to avoid. With little formal understanding or training the reaction is a quick turn of the bars away from the threat...which drives them right to it. Being aware of the control inputs (not just subconsciously but consciously) is important for both routine and emergency handling of the machine. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Gary_in_NJ on 05/19/15 at 11:05:46 2C3A2D30283D302B5F0 wrote:
No entirely true. The photo below is a sustained turn..and extreme. But the rider needs to hold this input to continue on his current path. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by KennyG on 05/19/15 at 11:25:39 "Go down a smooth, straight road at a comfortable speed. Keep your hand on the throttle, and take your clutch hand (left) off the bars......and using the index finger on your left hand, gently apply a bit of pressure on the left handlebar grip. Be ready for the bike to start turning to toward the centerline....even though you are pushing in the opposite direction." Which way does one apply the pressure? Forward or Down? Kenny G |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Dave on 05/19/15 at 11:27:05 4C6269447566746F070 wrote:
Forward...........the direction that the handlebars/forks can turn. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by verslagen1 on 05/19/15 at 11:35:51 7B555E7342514358300 wrote:
Forward... to turn the bars. Counter steering means just that turning the opposite way to initiate a turn... to initiate a turn, not maintain it. Sooner or later you'll turn the bars in the direction of the turn to maintain your balance and keep the rubber side down. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Gary_in_NJ on 05/19/15 at 12:02:29 716275746B6660626936070 wrote:
That's twice now I've seen this, and it simply isn't true. As soon as you begin to release pressure on the opposite bar, the bike will stand up. At no point does counter-steering revert to non-counter-steering. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/19/15 at 12:03:46 Thank you for the tips. I used to ride my brothers moped, if that counts. The whole counter steering argument is useless. You don't have to think about it, thats just what happens. You don't think about counter steering it just does it. And yeah,other drivers can be real A-holes. I've been cut off twice in the past two weeks, and a few days ago some guy didn't even yield and almost hit me. Luckily I honked at him and put my arm up, maybe he got the message. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Dave on 05/19/15 at 12:35:02 3F39282F2F3E7574747B4D0 wrote:
Well Yes....and no. You can ride a bike or motorcycle without knowing about countersteering - but once you become aware of it, understand what the process is, experiment with it a bit, and learn to use it to your advantage - you will be a better rider. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Dave on 05/19/15 at 12:39:42 5D575359525B5F56080E0A3A0 wrote:
That's twice now I've seen this, and it simply isn't true. As soon as you begin to release pressure on the opposite bar, the bike will stand up. At no point does counter-steering revert to non-counter-steering.[/quote] Interesting.....so if I am in a corner and release the pressure on the bars the bike will stand up on it's own? I am aware that I knowingly apply pressure to bring the bike up quickly.....but I never tried just letting it come up on it's own. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by verslagen1 on 05/19/15 at 12:48:17 464C48424940444D131511210 wrote:
That's twice now I've seen this, and it simply isn't true. As soon as you begin to release pressure on the opposite bar, the bike will stand up. At no point does counter-steering revert to non-counter-steering.[/quote] Not meant to say once in a turn you revert to steering like a tricycle. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Gary_in_NJ on 05/19/15 at 13:04:10 764D4057464A51574C444956250 wrote:
Sorrta depends on rake and trail and how stable the bike is once leaned over. A raked out bike will want to return to straight up (typical LS650). It also requires more force to initiate a turn. A sport bike (or an LS650 cafe conversion) with 24 or 25 degree rake will go where you tell it, so it will require a pull on the inside bar (or push on the outside) to change directions. This is why some people, especially those coming from a cruiser, find sport bikes to be twitchy. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by KennyG on 05/19/15 at 13:09:06 I seldom ride with other guys, but when I do it is to show them the rural roads of North Texas. I always lead the way since I am familiar with the roads. I do have to slow down or stop every now and then to let some of the guys catch up. On the way home I make another guy lead and I never have any trouble keeping up with the other guys who are usually a half century younger than I am. Almost all the above mentioned guys have taken a riders safety course and I hear them talking about counter-steering when we eat lunch. I probably started out counter-steering on a bicycle since I never had training wheels. The next time I am out riding I am going to try "pushing" on the handle bars, now that I know which way to push, and see if it changes my speed any. Kenny G |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Serowbot on 05/19/15 at 13:22:42 We've officially highjacked this thread... ;D... 303A3E343F36323B656367570 wrote:
No entirely true. The photo below is a sustained turn..and extreme. But the rider needs to hold this input to continue on his current path. [/quote] Gary,.. that guy is in a slide... In a slide you must steer into the the slide or you go down... That's called "being crossed up"... http://goodsparkgarage.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/crossed_nixon-150x150.jpg Normal riding, without sliding out the rear tire,... you initiate the turn with countersteering, but once the bike is leaned over you do steer in the direction of the turn... Watch next time you ride... ;)... Watch from 1:30 in this video... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWuTcJcqAng [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWuTcJcqAng[/media] |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Gary_in_NJ on 05/19/15 at 16:21:40 So I just came in from a 25 mile ride on the cafe racer. Here's what I can confirm. Once in a turned (leaned), the bike will hold that angle until a command is made to return the bike to upright. I took my hands off the bars mid turn, and sure enough, nothing changed. Great video. The guy in the green shirt is Keith Code from California Superbike School. I've seen that video many times and it illustrates counter steering perfectly. There is NO steering with the turn once in the turn. Watch it again. The pointer moving in the direction of the turn is when the rider is standing the bike up, or counter steering in the other direction to turn the other way. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Serowbot on 05/19/15 at 17:25:36 Perhaps I should have said... turn the bar left to go right, and once you initiate the turn, you will turn the bar less left... but not past the center point.. ...less left, is in effect turning right,... just not past center... The point is, the only way to turn a bike, is to upset the natural balance point by getting the contact point of the front tire onto the side... Once you get what you're doing to turn a bike, you realize it's basically a controlled falling over... ;D ;D ;D... You are holding the bike in mid fall, fighting to keep it riding on the side of tire... |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Gary_in_NJ on 05/19/15 at 17:39:28 Now we're in violent agreement. :D |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/19/15 at 17:56:07 On a side note. There is a YouTube motovlogger group ride next Saturday and the route includes 4 lane highway with a 65 speed limit. Any thing I can do to get a little boost to my top end speed before then? I've done the cam chain thing, When my raptor petcock comes in that is going on. Its bobbed out so there is less weight. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Dave on 05/19/15 at 18:08:45 616B6F656E67636A343236060 wrote:
I will tell you the one thing I really appreciate....is how the bike seems to automatically correct for the gust of wind that hits you sideways out of nowhere - and the bike automatically leans into it and keeps going straight (mostly). |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Dave on 05/19/15 at 18:10:32 5553424545541F1E1E11270 wrote:
Most Savages don't have any problems with 65 mph speeds. Be careful on group rides.....it is one place that "safety in numbers" does not apply. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/19/15 at 18:17:24 After a bit of research the highway its on is only 55mph speed limit. Now its just a matter if keeping up with 107 bikes, even though speed won't be the issue it will be traffic |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by botticelli on 05/19/15 at 18:30:28 I use a gps app on my phone for speed verification purposes. This gives me the freedom to mess around with tire sizes, gearing, and rim size freely. The stock speedo is off! I have done 94.3 as of today. This summer the ton ig going to happen. I have a new rear tire inbound, and am considering a custom rear sprocket. 645F5245545843455E565B44370 wrote:
I just looked at Serowbot's speed/rpm chart in the tech section. With the known speedometer error and the stock rear tire....you will have to reach an indicated 104.6 mph on the speedometer to actually reach 100 mph. (Your speedometer error may vary).[/quote] |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Gary_in_NJ on 05/19/15 at 19:27:30 72746562627338393936000 wrote:
During a group ride you want to ride staggered. Also, leave enough room for the guys ahead and behind to use the full lane. Fast guys in the front, slow guys in the back. A group organizer will ride round-up (last) to make sure no one is lost or left behind. Ride your own pace. It's not a race, its a ride. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Tomi on 05/19/15 at 19:28:16 I'm just gonna add my 2 cents about the MSF course here, having just taken it 1.5 weeks ago. Rtebbs8996, I recommend you take it as soon as you possibly can. I am middle-aged and burdened with neither the certainty of knowing I'm right nor the sense of indestructibility that comes with being a 16 year-old boy. (Arguing only proves me right, so don't bother.) Anyway, the MSF course is fifty bucks. I can't believe how much I learned during the class, and the seasoned riders in my group each also learned new things. Several of my friends re-take the course every few years just to help themselves shed bad riding habits. It could also save you money on your insurance. It'll be the best money you spend on this bike. Honest. /me |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Art Webb on 05/19/15 at 21:33:34 4B46435E4B5E544E54270 wrote:
Cost depends on location, some states help support the program, some don't here in Texas it costs $200 last I checked It's worth every penny, your body is best in factory form, modification via repair of crash damage will lessen performance, and quality of life I've been riding for 32 years, and I'm gonna take the class myself, and sure that I'll be a better rider for it |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by jcstokes on 05/20/15 at 02:46:35 Mr Tebbs, I feel you should get a little more solo riding experience before taking on comparatively large group rides. Be aware that the S40/Savage rear brake can lock up very quickly in an emergency stop situation. You seem to have only got your "permit" in the last two or three weeks. Have you checked with the riding group that you will be allowed to ride with what appears to be a learner or restricted permit? Does this group have a novice group within the ride? How experienced are you in close quarters riding? I don't wish to be seen as patronizing in any way, but in some respects the pittance spent on gas for the group ride might be better applied to the MSF course, or getting the books Gary in NJ recommended from your local library. I note in the picture of your machine, there is a Mack truck in the background, have you ever sat in the cab of a truck and wondered about or looked for the truck drivers blind spots? Please don't think I'm being paternalistic, I simply want to see you enjoy many years of motorcycle riding without pain , disablement or death. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/20/15 at 15:57:38 You are right. My permit only restricts me from carrying passengers and riding at night. Although I've been riding only bout 3 weeks on my permit and a couple years on a moped (which regrettably I can say I rode o backroads around town without neither license or permit), I wouldn't go on this ride if I didn't feel comfortable. When the time comes, If I'm up for it I will go, if not I'll stay home. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/22/15 at 12:17:29 what will new raptor petcock do for me |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by jcstokes on 05/22/15 at 12:37:47 What it does is permanently eliminate the possibility of vacuum diaphragm failure in the standard vacuum operated petcock. You must remember to turn it to off when you park the bike, something you don't have to worry about with the standard issue. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by verslagen1 on 05/22/15 at 13:19:46 5650414646571C1D1D12240 wrote:
Here we go again [smiley=undecided.gif] |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by chzeckmate on 05/22/15 at 14:19:03 475443425D5056545F00310 wrote:
Here we go again [smiley=undecided.gif][/quote] LOL...At the very least it will make removing the tank easier which is nice for plug reading/changing. At best it may improve your performance. Have you tested your stock petcock? |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/22/15 at 14:20:05 Dont worry Verslagen, haha. I put it on ad tested it, don't notice much of a difference but that could change once I go out to the highway for the first time and really open her up. Fit on great, no problems. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/23/15 at 07:45:52 Well one day after putting the petcock on, I was doing about 50 in 3rd coming down a bit of a hill and it seemed to lose power , popped and died. Pulled to side of the road, started it back up and was fine. Went to the gas station filled up and went home. It didn't die because it was empty still had about half a tank when it stalled. Ran fine home. Whats up with dat |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by gizzo on 05/23/15 at 15:04:09 How about checking your tank cap is venting to atmosphere? If no air can get into the tank a point will be reached when no fuel can fall out of it. If you disconnect the fuel line and drain into a container you should hear the tank cap hissing. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/23/15 at 16:01:52 I'm thinking I just left in the morning without putting the petcock to on, and I ran out of gas. Same thing just happened an hour ago, it died and it was because I forgot to turn the petcock back on after I dumped it. Yes, I was pulling into a dirt road to turn around and I dumped it at like 10, slowed down to nothing keeping it up before I finally dropped it so I wasn't injured at all, just a dinged up turn signal, didn't even scratch the paint which I had JUST buffed! So I'm thinking I just left petcock off, which is going to get old if i keep forgetting |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by gizzo on 05/23/15 at 16:44:03 Well, on the bright side, you forget a few more times,it's gonna stick in your head and remind you to turn the fuel tap on. Dropping it at 10 is better than at highway speed .glad there was no damage. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by jcstokes on 05/23/15 at 18:13:15 You will get used to it, you are of a generation that's never had to turn the petcock on a vacuum or gravity feed fuel system on or off. If you don't know what a vacuum tank is, Google Stewart Warner Vacuum Tank. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by botticelli on 05/24/15 at 07:09:05 Engrained in my head forever... the MSF safety course will teach you an acronym FINE-C for the engine pre-start checklist. F - Fuel valve I - Ignition switch / keys N - Neutral E - Engine cut off switch C - Clutch and Choke in Then hit the starter! or Kick it! As many others have said, the course is extremely valuable, and lessons learned there last. I still have FINE-C going through my head every time I start any of my bikes, and this is 10 years later. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Dave on 05/25/15 at 08:30:38 020F14140903050C0C09600 wrote:
Seems like there should be a "K" in there somewhere......for Kickstand. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by old_rider on 05/25/15 at 12:31:05 F - Fuel valve I - Ignition switch / keys N - Neutral E - Engine cut off switch C - Clutch and Choke in K - Kickstand up Y- your ready to start! um,,, well, I tried ... :) |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by verslagen1 on 05/25/15 at 12:48:30 F - Fuel valve - yes, it's got one I - Ignition switch / keys - in and on N - Neutral - in out in out in eureka E - Engine cut off switch - u kilt C - Clutch and Choke in - clutch no choke K - Kickstand up - not till I wanna go go Y- your ready to start!- wat about oil? |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/25/15 at 13:08:11 I notice when I get real close to front of engine behind forks, there is a ticking,not loud, actually sounds like it would be a normal sound if it is indeed normal. To me its just valves doing their thing, but what are important things I should look for in regards to sounds??https://youtu.be/JsxbRMtdIEs There's a video of the running |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/25/15 at 17:55:34 Now that I know how young of a man you are, I understand a bit more and will be more patient and share with you MY understanding of how the valves work, relative to how they can be adjusted. I don't claim to be a carb guru, but I feel very confident about the valves. It's a crude setup. It's noisy. The valve stem length changes once it's warmed up. Note that the manual says adjust valves on a cold engine... nobody I know is tough enough to do it when it is hot,,, So, cam hits rocker, rocker slaps adjuster into valve stem. I prefer tighter adjustments, in spec, but on the tight side, particularly on intake. Should someone come along with something that suits you better, well, go with what makes you comfortable. If it sounds like a sewing machine up top, you're probably right.. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 05/25/15 at 18:05:05 Yes, the video was taken on a cold start. Not as noisy once ita good and hot...probably nothing to worry about for now don't you think jg? |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by verslagen1 on 05/25/15 at 18:11:27 You got a couple of funny tones, but could be your phone. Best thing you can do is get mech's stethoscope and listen to your engine in various places. Track down odd noises. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/25/15 at 19:24:44 I can't tell from a video.. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Art Webb on 05/27/15 at 11:42:24 YouTube never produces sound well, I didn't really appreciate the difference a Dyna muffler makes on a Savage till I heard one in person |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Dave on 05/28/15 at 13:06:31 [split] [splithere] (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1432843337)[splithere_end] |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Boogie_with_Stu on 06/02/15 at 11:44:49 Ok, so I just finished reading this entire thread and....wow. I learned several things. 1) Most of the folks on this forum are incredibly helpful, for no other reason than they love the Savage and want others to get the most out of their bikes. The way some of you treated the young man who started this thread was, in my humble opinion, not particularly nice or welcoming. I have been involved in specific subject forums for years and the very first rule is..." if you dont have anything nice/informative/helpful to say...then dont say anything". If you are tired of answering the same question over and over, then dont! Let someone else field it. 2) I felt (as someone else mentioned) that the Versy adjuster was being HEAVILY pushed as the only real option to the chain problem. I must admit that it kinda turned me off as well. I am bright enough to understand what it does and why it is a great idea, but when you tell me "buy this gizmo or you are just plain stupid" (which is how it came across to me), then you are going to get an adverse reaction. 3) I am pretty bummed out that I seem to have purchased a bike that has more issues than an old Harley. If I had known that it was recommended that I crack the engine open after just 5,000 miles (or even once a year??) due to the cam chain adjuster issue, I might have bought the Honda VLX or the Vulcan 600. I'm at least grateful that these problems are easily fixed on the Savage. I'm a Savage owner and I am here to stay. I'm smart enough to follow the wisdom of those who came before me. I can tell you however, that this thread bummed me out and makes me a bit nervous about posting here. Maybe it is just best to use this forum as an extended user/repair/upgrade manual rather than a "community forum". |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by KennyG on 06/02/15 at 12:54:07 Hello Stu, I have had a lot of help here and I too am not leaving. If you have a thin skin this is not the place for you. You will have to get used to immature comments from guys that would rather tease you or make an ass out of you than help. If you pay attention on here you will see that some of these guys have serious issues and really need help. Lucky for both of us the right guys eventually come along and save the day. Verslagen is one of the good guys, and the modification he does to the Cam Chain Tensioner is pure gold. He will tell you how you can make the modification yourself if you can weld and have access to a machine shop. My 2 Cents Worth. Kenny G |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by verslagen1 on 06/02/15 at 12:56:03 4E43434B4549015B455844015F58592C0 wrote:
1) stu this is a community and we like to promote a helpful attitude rather than a snarky one. and none of us are immune from a bad attitude once in a while. but being here for the length of time that I've had, you develop a callus thick enough to deflect even the sharpest of barbs. so you as a member all fresh and new need to make us aware when we are overstepping the bounds with a wounded remark. 2) I've seen this in the past and I'm careful not to push my solution in general. In this case the attitude was denial for one reason or another and until there was a commitment to look into it everyone laid into him. whether you buy a verslavy, make yourself a slavy, or buy a new chain as needed makes no difference to me. but we do want you to check it, otherwise you'll be a member we never hear from again. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/02/15 at 17:09:23 Well, I just read the first three pages, bottom of first page, Stokes mentioned chain, I finally made a point of making it clear that the cam chain tensioner problem can be engine killers. Mention ed the Verslavy, because based on experience, and I HAVE been here for a while, that is the easiest way to get it going. First decide if it's okay. I got frustrated with the reluctance of the owner. He was wanting it running good. I get that. But probably best to see if it's gonna be running at all,first. I don't see snarky, Anyone wanna show me, |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Serowbot on 06/02/15 at 18:02:03 7B6D7A677F6A677C080 wrote:
I did get my panties in a bunch there for a minute... ;D... ...but, it was in part meant to be funny... :-?... Sorry if nobody got that... |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 06/16/15 at 17:15:38 In the end it doesn't matter. The advice was taken a while ago and now its running great not that it wasn't before. I went on the highway for the first time and pushed it in the right lane and still got to 68-69 (what the speedo read could have been faster if I used gps) but I could imagine I could juice 70;75 Maybe with a backwind. Given its 30 years old and all I'm not worried as much with the top speed, though I'm curious how some people claim they go up to 90. Belt is kind of stuff I can't really bend it 90 degrees without working it hard and the tires are to proper inflation. Only thing I cna think of is seafoam as on the highway it did pop a couple times when I was nearing WOT but I'm sure that's normal to slightly pop once or twice when youre nearing redline |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by Dave on 06/16/15 at 17:49:19 3630212626377C7D7D72440 wrote:
Nope.....if the bike is running correctly it will not pop as you approach redline. |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by rtebbs8996 on 06/16/15 at 18:14:20 Mk. Well for now it's running good for what I need I don't need/want to tinker with it as if now. What could it be though? |
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Title: Re: Savage only tops out at 60 Post by old_rider on 06/16/15 at 19:21:22 Read all the posts... sounds like you have run the gauntlet of things and replies. Sounds like you have taken it all in stride (good on you)... without being there in person sometimes it can be frustrating as a reader/listener figuring out what exactly someone is explaining, different minds interpret differently even though the words are black and white to the writer. If you have done all the internals and it is running semi-great and you are looking to fine tune....and you have someone who knows carbs and fuel/air flow (there are tons of folks on this site) a walk through would again be needed. First, now this is my first reply on your post... I watched your video.... Have you ever reached the end of acceleration? where the throttle would NOT twist any further? In every post you made, you never ONCE said that, it was always "I could have", never I could NOT twist it any further. I realize you are a young rider, but to post (will not go past 60ish mph) and you have yet to twist the throttle to the stop...well.. then you really don't know if it will do 90mph. Second, you have a cone filter, and i'm guessing you do not know what jets your carb has to compensate for all the air going into the fuel/air ratio (which could be limiting your speed). Third, please spend some time in the "Tech section" of this forum, if you understand all the tech stuff read away or let your dad read about the carb stuff. It is all fine and dandy to ask a question, but the reader needs to know ALL the information to make an educated guess (hypothesis) as to how to help you in the best way. Fourth, I apologize if I am coming off gruffly, old guys are kinda set in their ways and get all antsy when their minds can't rap around what you are trying to get across, and we have ADHD when we can't get our points across, just ask pop, he will tell you... or go buy your experiences with him LOL... my pops would get short with me on occasion. Hope this has shed a little light on what you need to do.... Lancer or Versy could probably explain the carb jets, or possibly Dave, a lot of folks have done carb mods and changed jets. But please... read up a bit in the Tech Section so maybe you can understand what you want to ask, if you can be a little more "specific", it would help a lot, and not knowing about engines or how they work can be a real pain for you and those trying to help. P.S. (edited) If you do not feel safe twisting the throttle all the way in fourth gear, get someone who will and let them tell what is happening with the bike. Don't do it if you don't feel safe, its not smart to ride beyond your feelings...trust me on that. |
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