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Message started by rl153 on 05/03/15 at 10:42:51

Title: does any one else have this
Post by rl153 on 05/03/15 at 10:42:51

It seems when I fill my gas tank on the kick stand ,then stand it up balanced the gas level goes higher ,and some leaks out,with the cap on. . If I'm real careful and balance the bike while I'm filling, so It doesn't go high , I don't have a problem ,and when I'm riding there is no problem. It's hard to see in there . I don't really think it's the cap gasket , but I don't know. Any one else experience this? Thanks!

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by verslagen1 on 05/03/15 at 11:25:14

when level, don't fill above the bottom of the fill tube.
of course you could need a new gas cap gasket.
how old your bike?

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by rl153 on 05/03/15 at 12:11:31

My bike is a 2005.It's just hard to see in the tank ,and balance the bike,while filling .I suppose I could bring a brick with me.I'll have try your suggestion.Thanks!

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by jcstokes on 05/03/15 at 12:41:41

If you want a few miles more range, you have to live with the seepage. Don't cram fill a hot engine and then go for food or drink. If you intend to cram fill, start riding immediately

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by Kris01 on 05/03/15 at 19:42:45

I don't know how many times I've overflowed the tank when not paying attention. That's a very bad thing when the engine is hot!

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by stewmills on 05/05/15 at 13:07:41

Had same problem as a new rider. As noted, the solution is when on the kickstand, fill only to the bottom of the fill tube (you'll see it sticking down in there about 1.5" below the cap). When you stand it up to leave, don't "throw" it up level off the stand and slosh the fuel aggressively to the right side of the tank, just be gentle and level the bike out.

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by MMRanch on 05/05/15 at 20:01:25

rl153
I carry some extra gas in my saddle bag. I find an empty "Sea Foam" can works good , along with a little sea-foam for fuel preservative

Filling only to the filler-neck works for me :).

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by arteacher on 05/06/15 at 03:29:11

I carry a small pen-light that I use when filling, and fill it up to the bottom of the neck. Then I take a china marker (grease pencil), add 100 to the mileage on the odo and write it on the right side mirror. When the numbers get close I stop for gas.

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/06/15 at 07:32:51

I didnt write the mileage, but I did use a lite and stood the bike up and was careful. Gas on the pants is Zero fun.

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by savskad on 05/07/15 at 15:20:21

A friend of mine (the one who actually turned me onto savages) told me when he had his, what he would do is:

1. Fill it
2. Cap it
3. With the bike still on it's kickstand and in neutral, he'd start it up and let it run for a few seconds before taking off

He didn't say anything to me about the level, I would just stick to what these gentlemen are saying about going to roughly the bottom of the fill tube. Mine is a 2014 and I'll still have it spill out on me occasionally. I try not to lean too hard to the right after a fill up.

Personally, I've just started not getting it to the brim. As long as I get 100 miles out of a tank before switching to reserve (stock petcock) I'm satisfied. I aim to fuel up on the 100's personally, or at least keep a mental note of when I last fueled up.

Happy riding, hope you get it cleared up. :)

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by rl153 on 05/07/15 at 18:40:08

I don't know why ,but I get bad gas milage,only about 60 to 70 miles per tank. The bike runs good with alot of power ,and doesn't backfire,so I think I won't mess with it.I think verslagens sugestion,to balance the bike ,then fill it to the bottom of the fill tube will solve my problem along with a flashlight. Thanks for all the input.

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by Dave on 05/07/15 at 18:42:55

4D4457484F4410131818210 wrote:

I don't know why ,but I get bad gas milage,only about 60 to 70 miles per tank.

Do you ride in 1st and 2nd gear most of the time? :o

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by Kris01 on 05/07/15 at 18:44:43

So you're getting ~20-25 mpg?!?!?

Somethin' ain't right! :o

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by rl153 on 05/07/15 at 18:50:51

I do ride around in town alot ,so I'm always going through the gears,That might have something to do with it.I don't go on the highway really.There probably is something wrong,but I don't know what.

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/07/15 at 19:01:43

A rolodex card , billfold, write down mileage, gallons, do the math, dont guess. At 25 MPG,that thing ottsta smoke.

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by verslagen1 on 05/07/15 at 19:11:45

What size jets?
White spacer mod?
Petcock?

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by rl153 on 05/07/15 at 19:39:40

The previous owner ,who bought the bike new,said something was done to the carb,might have been the spacer,I'm not sure..I think the previous owner said the carb was jetted,but i don't really know what they meant.The bike has 6500 mi ,I put the raptor petcock on two years ago .It's not smoking at all,starts right up ,even after the winter, and I don't know what the jet size is.I couldn't really work on the carb myself,the cost of the gas isn't really an issue.I love the bike,and don't mind the bad mileage.

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by verslagen1 on 05/07/15 at 19:46:29

An overly rich jet will wash down the cylinder wall and wear out the rings

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by rl153 on 05/07/15 at 19:58:12

That's not good news,it probably is something like that.If the jet was rich,would there be smoke?

That's valuable information,I don't know what I'll do about it.

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/07/15 at 20:03:34

make sure that the choke knob is pushed in

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by rl153 on 05/07/15 at 20:27:32

I definately push the choke in.I wonder how long it will run this way before the rings are a problem?I use rotella t6 with an ounce of that redline zddp aditive. Is there an additive that would prevent further deterioration?I know I should just get it fixed.

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by Art Webb on 05/07/15 at 20:50:22

Most gas additives are pure snake oil, if your jet is too big, it needs to be changed
this is not a difficult job, at all. it'll take longer to open the carb up than to change the jet, and even longer to get the carb out of the bike, but at least it's not a sportbike with lots of tupperware

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/07/15 at 21:12:10

Loosen the carb , tilt it, swapjet.

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by Art Webb on 05/07/15 at 21:18:38

That's how it worked on my old GN400, rusty tank, jet would get plugged now and then, ten minute fix (pull jet, blow through it, reinstal, kick er over and ride off)
didn't know you could do it on an S40, too 8-)

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by rl153 on 05/08/15 at 12:11:06

First off I'm going to fill the tank full and run it till I hit reserve. I actually am not certain what the mileage is, but I suspect it.s pretty bad. If that's the case , I was thinking an oil additive ,but when Art said gas additive, I think that might work. If I add marvel mystery oil to the gas , wont that add extra lubrication to the rings?! I really can't change the jet myself.What do you think ,JOG ,Verslagen? Thanks for bringing this to my attention!

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by verslagen1 on 05/08/15 at 12:26:38

232A3926212A7E7D76764F0 wrote:

I really can't change the jet myself.

http://www.savageriders.com/verslagen/smiley/angry021.gif

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by rl153 on 05/08/15 at 12:36:33

Oh well, I guess that answers that question.What can I tell you, I'm not quite as handy as some of you guys.

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/08/15 at 17:28:45

calculate the MPG.
Fill up, write down the miles on the odometer.
Ride till you need gas.
Fill up to the same level in the tank.
Subtract first mileage from current mileage, that's how many miles you went, divide that by how many gallons it took.
That's
Miles. PER . gallon

It's important to know. The carburetor could be wrecking the motor. Not just wasting money on gas or inconvenient because of needing a fill up.

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by rl153 on 05/08/15 at 19:22:10

Thanks JOG, I'm going to fill it tomorrow.

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/08/15 at 20:20:32

And why can't you swap the jet?
IF someone has pulled the bowl then the bolts aren't stuck, hopefully.
It's a simple job.

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by WD on 05/09/15 at 00:12:30

Mine is averaging in the low 30s, when it should be getting in the high 50s to mid 60s. Time to change the oil and check the air filter. Might even be time to service the wheel, pulley hub and steering head bearings, seeing as how Savages are primitive and still need manual greasing occasionally... Probably another delaminated rear brake shoe jamming up the works as well... Really need to get off my lazy butt and drill/tap the hubs and steering head for grease fittings and fill them up.

Not sure about you, but, I routinely forget that Savage/S40 parts would have been state of the art no later than 1975, and that I really need to treat the machine as if it was in fact a real vintage motorcycle... :-X

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by rl153 on 05/09/15 at 06:53:36

WD,I'm glad I'm not the only one getting bad gas mileage.I just filled the tank ,i brought a brick,glasses and flashlight with me .was able to fill it pretty good without spilling,so now I'll get a good indication of what the mileage is using JOGS method ,which I wasn't really doing before .We'll see.

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by Art Webb on 05/09/15 at 07:07:18

there's evenn a website for this, it's called fuelly, every time you fill up, you enter mileage and gallons added, and it tracks your mileage
I haven't made enough entries yet to get any numbers
http://www.fuelly.com/dashboard
I'm interested to see the diference between my S40 and the Yamahammer

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by rl153 on 05/09/15 at 07:14:17

thanks,i'll check it out

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/09/15 at 13:13:10

If it rolls like pushing a truck in neutral, do the math.

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by rl153 on 05/09/15 at 14:34:42

I'm curious,people say they are getting 50 mpg. Is that in the city too,or just the highway?

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/09/15 at 15:51:38

I got 49. Supertrapp, rejetted, Stage one cam, sevenish miles to town, some twisties, hard accel, clutchless shifts, peg dragging as often as not. Driving to survive and avoid tickets in town. My girl got 51.

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by Drey on 05/09/15 at 15:56:01

I generally get low 40s in city/commuting but 50+ on long rides where I'm going 45+mph the majority of the time.

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by rl153 on 05/09/15 at 16:40:54

thanks,i'm just wondering at around what point do you have a serious problem with your carb

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/09/15 at 18:03:42

Mine was jetted bigger than stock, had a cam , free exhaust and Kand N
airfilter AND I rode that thing brutally. If you arent doing all that and your MPG sux worse, something ain't right.
If it's running that rich, its future is in question.

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by rl153 on 05/09/15 at 19:55:57

I believe you.What would make the jet go bad ,or suddenly start running rich?I think it's been this way for a couple years.but i'm not sure how bad it is.But I'll know in a couple days when I go through this tank.

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/09/15 at 20:19:30

Im no carb guru.
Figure out what you're getting,

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by Art Webb on 05/09/15 at 21:51:36

make sure you're really getting as bad as you think
If so, check the air filter to see if it's wet / dirty
Do you drain the puke tube when you do oil changes?
barring that it's gotta be internal, and if your valves are adjusted right, you'll have to open it up
did it get better MPG before? if so, what happened right before it started getting bad mileage?
I'm no carb guru, but I know a bit

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by rl153 on 05/10/15 at 06:35:28

I'll check the air filter, I did drian the tube last fall I switched from the stock air filter to the hi filtro air filter. I'll know my exact mileage in a few days.My valves chatter when the bike is hot,they may be off a bit. Thanks!.

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by Art Webb on 05/10/15 at 08:27:47

Valve chatter isn't a bad thing, on an air cooled solid actuator engine, noisy vales are happy valves, within reason

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by rl153 on 05/10/15 at 08:49:52

I just ordered a new air filter , my old one was installed in 2011.I don't think it was that bad ,but I thought you had a good idea.I went to the Suzuki dealership ,they wanted $42, I thought, I'll check ebay ,which I should have done first, $15 delivered.I'm hoping that helps. I'm going to do a before and after gas mileage check.

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/10/15 at 08:59:10

Valves need adjusted. Some more often than others. The adjuster is mild steel will a point like a dull pencil. Smacking into the valve stem repeatedly flattens, and work hardens, that pointy tip. Early on, every five thousand, at 15, it wasnt so far out, I hardly did anything at 20.
Now, seat (should it manage to seat itself deeper) and valve lip wear allow the valve stem to move toward the lifter, possibly losing the required lash.
Oonce I feel comfortable about the seat, I adjust the valves as tight as I can, InsideSpecs. I bought a cam to increase fuel and air in and out, I WANT to adjust valves to help. It takes longer, because playing with adjustments and trying to get them Thaaaat close to potential costly errormeans checking, rechecking and checking again.
The slack in the threads opens the adjustmen when the jam nut is tightened.

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/10/15 at 09:02:57

I'm going to do a before and after gas mileage check.

Scientific approach. Good.

You can fill up, ride 50miles, go to tsame pump, fill up to the same spot.
If it takes 1 gallon, 50 mpg.

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by rl153 on 05/10/15 at 09:06:37

Thats a great Idea!

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by Art Webb on 05/10/15 at 09:47:33

223D3B3C21261727172F3D317A480 wrote:

Think you got that beckerds, the adjuster and the lock nut tighten in the same direction, so tightening the lock nut, if you don't hold the adjuster, will tighten the clearance

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/10/15 at 15:31:27

If, and you must, hold the adjuster, when the jam nut is tightened it Lifts the adjuster in the threads. Maybe a thousandth. The threads in the rockers and the threads on my adjusters were a bit sloppy.

The slack in the threads opens the adjustmen when the jam nut is tightened.

Its not possible to accurately adjust anything and not hold the bits involved while securing the adjusted parts.

I see why you thought that... but ive been in there and am actually pretty good on these valves. Its doggone fidgetty getting them on the tight side of In Spec.

Loosen an adjuster, insert desired feeler gauge,run the adjuster down, finger tight, get an offset screwdriverand a 10mm. Feel how the feeler gauge slides, should have some drag.. Holding the adjuster from turning, snug the jam nut. If the threads in you rockers are as sloppy S mine, the feeler will be loose now.

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by Art Webb on 05/11/15 at 11:04:53

As much trouble as I had just getting a feeler in there, I went fat, tightened the adjuster to a very slight drag, and left it in while tightening the locknuts, it went fro a light drag to maybe a light medium drag, and I call it good
I'm not trying for tight valves, as I doubt it makes a lot of difference, I like em a little loose, for safety's sake
when I tried it the traditional way, like you do it, I couldn't get the feeler gauge back in at all
I don't think this means it was over tight, I think it means I have trouble getting the gauge positioned just right to slip in, as I had to back the adjusters off quite a bit to get them in in the first place
I'm getting the angled gauges for next time

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by rl153 on 05/11/15 at 14:57:13

Well,,it looks like it was a false alarm. I rode 45 miles and when i refilled it only took .79 gallons. I never checked scientifically,and using a brick under the kickstand gives me much better control over filling.Thanks Jog and eveyone for your help.

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/11/15 at 18:28:34

I have to remove the gauge from the set, bend to a Z shape and put a ski tip bend in the end.
Getting it back in? Not easy, not always possible. I test by goijg smaller.
You're probably right about that other thousandth or so,, but, cam lift opens valves and the book says what the safe adjustment is and I wanted it getting as much air in and out as possible. I never checked the valves and found them tighter than I had adjusted them to.

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by Art Webb on 05/12/15 at 10:36:03

Yeah I'm not trying to get the last HP, Don't index my plug, either, I stay on the safe side because I'm too lazy to get very detailed with this stuff ;D

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by Tocsik on 05/12/15 at 13:42:21

2F26352A2D2672717A7A430 wrote:

Glad to hear you got the MPG's figured out. You should be getting around 50-ish if things are good. See my Fuelly link in my sig.

Title: Re: does any one else have this
Post by rl153 on 05/12/15 at 14:12:41

Thanks,I joined fuelly,it's cool.. i think I'm getting at least fifty mpg. The confusion stemed from being unable to fill the tank consistently to the top ,without spilling, but using a brick,and flashlight, solved the problem.