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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Voodoo Vintage hardtails /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1421419365 Message started by FDM on 01/16/15 at 06:42:24 |
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Title: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by FDM on 01/16/15 at 06:42:24 I'm working on a Voodoo Vintage Hardtail build. Wondering what others doing similar builds have used for wheels and tires? Was originally planning to stick with the stock wheels but now I see how low the frame clearance is and am rethinking my original plan. |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by Dave on 01/16/15 at 09:23:29 There is only one VooDoo build in the Bike Build Threads. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1395723490 He went with an 18" rear and 21" front rims. (Why you building that bike upside down?) |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by paulmarshall on 01/16/15 at 12:45:00 Its the right way up down here in NZ. ;D |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by Demin on 01/17/15 at 04:19:32 'cuz he's from the land down under. ::) But yes.Most guys are running an 18" rear.Or maybe run a 150/90.Here is a comparison of a 150/90 to a 140/80. |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by FDM on 01/17/15 at 06:41:40 I've heard a few have mentioned going with GS550 or GS750 wheels. David at Voodoo Vintage mentioned them to me recently also. Wondering just how compatible they truly are. Trying to decide if it just makes more sense to buy a new 18' rim and have it laced to a proper savage hub. Although it sounds like the more pricey option it might save me a ton of aggravation. Of course I've already cleaned up the stock rear wheel and had new rubber mounted and balanced on it. Not to mention I had Led Sled make me a beautiful fender blank that fits the thing like a glove. At least I haven't finished it off yet. I can't risk ending up with a bike that I can't ride. I've yet to find a single person that has tried to tell me that I will be content with 2.75" of frame-ground clearance. |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/17/15 at 07:16:50 We have speed bumps that are more than 3" tall. I would not appreciate the bike lower,,the pegs grind anyway. If you don't care about getting through curves, Ehhh... |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by Colxjon on 01/17/15 at 12:13:33 The 18 inch is a must. The bike already sits low with the hard tail. When you go to the 18 it helps you gain some ground clearance. The only tricky part is getting some custom spacers made. I had a buddy of mine that works at a machine shop make me some to match the stock axle and then I cut them down to the length I needed. |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by FDM on 01/20/15 at 11:36:47 So I'm looking for someone to build me a wheel with a Savage hub and a 16-18 inch rim, preferably in the northeast U.S./Boston area. I drove around and checked out a few of the local independent bike shops that advertise custom work on their websites and found that their idea of custom work is quite different than mine. They all claim that they build a bunch of wheels but when I mentioned drilling out a rim to get the angles on the holes to match the savage hub they all seemed intimidated. I'll also need the other wheel redone to match and a whole bunch of powder coating and paint. I have a reasonable budget. Anyone got any suggestions? |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by Dave on 01/20/15 at 15:59:13 Yep...the only way to get a proper rear wheel is to: 1) Find a rear rim for the GT380, GT550...whatever is documented to be the same rear hub as our bike. 2) Order new rims that have the holes punched at the proper angle, and get the proper spokes. Buchannan Wheel and Rim can make you whatever you want. You can get the 21" front wheel you want! |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by FDM on 01/21/15 at 16:11:01 I put it together and sat on it with the 15" on it. It's low but I have to lay it over pretty far before it drags, A lot lower than I plan on leaning it. Either way still probably going with a bigger rim but might be able to get what I need with a 16". Not sure if a 16" that laces to a savage hub is easier or harder to find than a 18"? |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by Dave on 01/22/15 at 04:14:59 60626B260 wrote:
When in the corner, the tires and forks will compress a bit....you will drag the pegs sooner than you expect. |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by paulmarshall on 01/22/15 at 22:20:39 Looking really good, are you going to run forward controls? |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by FDM on 01/23/15 at 06:14:53 Not sure on controls yet. I was assuming some modification would be necessary all along but now that I've been able to sit on it it feels pretty good with the stock controls. The Voodoo hardtail claims to add 4" of stretch. It doesn't look like much, but it seems to do the trick. I'm 5'11" with a 30" inseam if anyone is curious about fit. I'd like to stick with as much of the stock control setup as I can cause everything just bolts up so nicely. (that being said those that came with my bike are pretty rough and it's gonna take a couple bucks and some effort to make them look sweet so I might consider an aftermarket setup if I come across something that makes sense before I fix them up) |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by nickythegreek on 01/24/15 at 04:03:55 Looking good! I am in the same boat as you right now. Gotta figure out what rear tire to use on my voodoo build. The voodoo hardtail comes with the 20mm axle as opposed to the stock 17mm. I'm in the back of a van on my way to a lowbrow customs swap meet to check if I can find any 18" Harley rear drum wheels that will work. What tank are you using? |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by Demin on 01/24/15 at 05:36:37 Nicky...Where are you located?I'm going to miss the Lowbrow 'meet.But there is one in Canton tomorrow. |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by nickythegreek on 01/24/15 at 13:57:05 69686064630D0 wrote:
Over in Columbus. I ended up picking up an 18" triumph rear with drum break and sprocket (both on left side) for $80. We are gonna see if we can make it work. |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by FDM on 01/24/15 at 21:39:19 The tank I'm using is from Pandemonium. I still haven't made a call on my rear wheel yet. I'm going to get a price on having one built and see if it scares me. Be interested to see how that Triumph wheel works out for you nicky. |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by nickythegreek on 02/16/15 at 07:25:10 Triumph wheel is gonna be a pain. Looks like I am switching back to the stock. I am contemplating getting the 150/90 but I think I would rather put 4 over tubes on front. |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by FDM on 02/26/15 at 09:45:02 Does anyone have any experience lacing a 21" front rim to a stock savage Hub and running it on an otherwise stock Savage front end? Wondering if there were any issues? How does the brake work? I'm leaning towards having a rear wheel built with a savage hub and an 18" rim. Going to end up building a front wheel to match it. Thinking a 21" up front might work with the 18" on the rear. |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by paulmarshall on 02/26/15 at 10:45:27 Providing the rim is a 36 hole and the spoke holes are drilled at the right angles you will have no problem.You will need longer spokes of course. The front rotor is bolted to the hub so this will bolt back on with out any problems either. You will either have to run with out a front fender or modify something to fit. |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by FDM on 03/19/15 at 06:27:28 Winter is finally giving us a break in the northeast and I've finally had a chance to get back to the bike project. I've decided to go the custom built wheel route. I couldn't bring myself to chop up the stock wheels that I'd already restored(not to mention I had a perfectly sized fender made for the rear) so I sourced a couple of other Savage wheels off eBay. I cut out the hubs, gave them a polishing and dropped them off at the powdercoater yesterday. When I get them back they're going to Buchanans to be laced to matching black anodized rims. Trying to find an appropriate used rim proved challenging. Most of the compatible rims I could find were a little bit on the narrow side for what I was looking for. So I'm biting the bullet and throwing down to get this done right. Here's a before picture of the stuff that's at the powdercoater. Looked so good after I polished it that for a split second I thought about leaving it polished but then the reality of what a nightmare that would be to maintain set in. |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by Dave on 03/19/15 at 07:13:12 Yep....That bare aluminum is a tough decision. It looks really good bare - but does need polishing and attention if not coated. If you don't store the bike outside, and don't put it away wet - it can hold up reasonably well. I did not coat mine, I occasionally get caught in the rain and I need to spend a couple of hours polishing 2-3 times a year to keep it looking nice. Are you having it powder coated with clear....or black? |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by wolfsgrin on 03/19/15 at 10:32:05 That's coming along great I like that tank. I got my rear wheel back from Buchanan's not to long ago they did a great job. I got the Excel 18x2.50x36 spoke rear rim. Kinda pricey but they're the best in the business. What size width was the the rear rim you ordered? And the brand? It's a great rim but if I build another bobber I do a couple things different like order a much wider rim. I didn't go with a voodoo hardtail I wanted 3" of stretch too which is what voodoo advertised maybe it was 4" not 3" but that is overall stretch with the backbone sitting higher and I just wanted 3" past the seat post. anyways, (voodoo's look great though) I went with a custom hardtail from cycleone in OK. With the new hardtail my axle plates are close to a 1/2" thick so I had to find a longer axle that was 17mm(stock) then have the step up side machined down to fit. For the price of that and the rim relaced. I could have got me a wider 18" rim with tire and rear disk brake off a harley or something and save about 400 bucks and have that sweet disk brake instead off the stock drum. I'm having red at cycleone machine my wheel spacers now and darn if those rear spacers aren't gonna be long as hell. Got me kickin myself why didn't I go with the wider tire. For me it seems that the excel 18x2.15 rim is more for the cafe conversion it clears the swing arm I guess no problem but for a bobber hardtail if you got extra room go wider. It was hell trying to squeeze on a 130/70 on that 2.15 rim. That and most your 18" rear tires are for crotchrockets or knobby enduro tires. The sidewalls are smaller than your cruiser tires. unless it's like an 18" rear tire for a harley which is gonna be a wider rim than 2.15" it's probly a sportbike tire. But I've drunkenly rambled long enough and I'm still gonna rock that excel rim it's so shiny :D. Can't wait to see yours done love the hardtail bobbers. |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by Dave on 03/19/15 at 11:38:56 Cafe bikes normally have a 2.15 rim on the front and a 2.50 rim on the back. Wider rim....absolutely. A 130/70 tire should be in a 3.50 rim. A 110/80 on a 2.50 rim, a 90/90 on a 2.15 rim. If you squeezed a 130 tire on a 2.15 rim.....it will be pinched narrow and have a very arched tread profile. Here is a link to a Bridgestone chart that shows the tires size and recommended rim width. http://www.bridgestone.com/products/motorcycle_tires/products/battlax/bt45.html |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by wolfsgrin on 03/19/15 at 12:43:11 my bad supposed to read 2.50" rear not 2.15". That's my front rim width. |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by FDM on 03/20/15 at 06:42:40 I'm going with gloss black powder on the hubs and as many of the small parts as I can. I'm using parts from a bunch of different savages but the majority of my parts came from a rough 87 with 22k that was stored in a covered but open garage for the last few years before I got my hands on it. Lots of the small parts are way beyond just cleaning up and using. They pretty much all need to get taken down to bare metal so the powdercoat seems to make sense after that. I realize that there are a bunch of different rear ends that I could adapt to this project which could be found for a reasonable price and which would offer substantially better performance than the Savage. I understand and respect why many go that route. That being said I'm trying to build a hardtail Savage and like it or not that antiquated rear drum brake setup is one of the bikes defining features. If I was building a bike for total performance or comfort this wouldn't be it. I'm building this bike to cruise up and down the MA North Shore, not race or take on trips. I thought long and hard about this once it became obvious that the stock wheels weren't going to swing. I haven't committed to an exact pair of rims yet but I'm leaning in the direction of Buchanan's house made Sun rims. 18x2.75" for the rear to hold a 130/90 tire. And a 21x2.15 for the front to hold a 90/100 tire. I have a couple of weeks to decide while the hubs are getting powdered. |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by FDM on 04/12/15 at 04:59:20 I picked up my hubs from the powdercoater and dropped off the front end. I am very pleased with the results. I'm glad I went out of the way to find someone that does lots of bike parts. First thing Monday morning I will be shipping them off to have the wheels built. I need to decide in the next couple of days what size rim and what tire I am going to run on the rear. I love the look of vintage style tires like the Firestone replicas but they get such horrible reviews for performance that I'm not going that direction. A lot of the other vintage style tires are on the narrow side. I'm thinking about going a completely different route and going with an Avon Cobra 150/70. Their website suggests compatible rims are 3.5-4.5 with 4.25 being reccomended. Since Buchanans makes a 4.25 in their Sun line of rims I'm leaning in the direction. I have also looked at the Kenda Challengers but am concerned they are cheap. They offer a 130 which would provide me with the most OD and therefore help most with the low frame clearance issues. I think just about any 18" is going to get me sufficient clearance though, especially if Nickythegreek is putting miles on his with the stock wheels. |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by FDM on 04/18/15 at 04:43:30 Still haven't pulled the trigger on the rear wheel. I'm nervous that a 150 rear tire might be too wide and interfere with the chain. Can't afford for this not to work. Most 18" tires are 130 and below or are "fat" tires. Wondering what people's thoughts are on fitting a 150/70 with a chain conversion? |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by FDM on 05/12/15 at 05:05:26 The front end parts got back from the powdercoater yesterday. I couldn't be happier with the results. |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by FDM on 02/14/16 at 04:38:04 I am finishing up roller #2 on my VV build. The decision to change up the wheels officially set me back nearly a year. In the end I'm happy with the result. The bike now has at least 4" of clearance below the frame. With the stock wheels there was barely 2". In the end I went with a Firestone ANS 18X4.50 On a 2.15" Sun Rim on the rear. And an Avon Speedmaster 21" on a 1.85 Sun rim for the front. Powdered hubs, anodized rims and polished stainless spokes/nipples from Buchanans. |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by Whistles83 on 04/09/16 at 05:59:08 I am also doing a VooDoo hardtail build... Should have some pics that ive posted on here.. Im using the stock tires and rims... doing this on the cheap.. Im digging you bike so far. Whistles |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by FDM on 04/10/16 at 08:14:49 I'd assume you also dug up the other VV related threads on this forum. In a couple of them people discuss running into clearance issues at the point when they first try and put a chain on it and put the rear end together. I recently got through that point of the project so I figured I'd share my experience. I am sure that to anyone that's done a few of these this is commonly understood, The first issue people used to mention involves chain clearance over a bottom cross support piece that some choose to weld in place. When mine was shipped that piece was really just a spacer to keep the thing together right in shipping. My chain runs clear and smooth. I will probably run a small chain tensioner that mounts to the side rail instead of the big spring loaded one that most seem to run with the big bump to clear the cross piece. The side to side clearances are another story. First off just cause your frame rails are a perfect 8.5" up higher in the loop, the measurement you need to pay attention to is at the bottom. They tend to creep in a bit as they run their length. The little blue print that David Roy(great guy) sends with the tail is accurate. The key is getting your wheel spacers right. The side to side clearance between the frame rail and chain is pretty tight. The spacers are the critical component to getting everything to go together. Just make sure you are making measurements from the bottom of the rails or the axle plates and not the top when you're trying to center everything else. The inner frame rails should be 8.5" at the bottom also. Keep in mind that the axle plates aren't specifically made for our bike. They are designed to accommodate a 3/4" Harley axle. You will need a bushing to accommodate your 17mm stock axle (get one from VV. They're cheap and easy). Also you won't be able to use close to all of the length of the slot for the chain adjuster cause the nuts that hold down the sprocket will hit it. I've seen at least a couple of others get longer chain adjusters only to realize that it's the nuts that limit travel. There's sufficient travel as is to tighten the chain. |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by FDM on 04/10/16 at 08:43:06 Whistles, I started this "budget" project three winters ago. I also intended to use the stock wheels. I even went as far as getting new tires mounted on them and having a beautiful fender made by Led Sled that fits the rear like a glove all now collecting dust in my shop). My attitude was that although I had seen a few people advise against using the stock wheels that mine would be different cause I think I'm different and so therefore I wouldn't have a problem. I put my first roller together and man did I think it looked sweet. I was sending my buddies pics etc. only after staring at it for a while did it dawn on me just how low the clearance was below the frame tubes. If you use those little grind bars he sends you we're talking barely 2" in reality and that's with no one sitting on it. It really doesn't look bad until you think about it, how are are the potholes in Canada? Cause in Massachusetts we've got ones that border on sink holes. Not to mention most speed bumps here are taller than 2". I wouldn't even want to turn into or out of a driveway with a little incline with only that much clearance. I was stubborn about accepting this reality about my project and it cost me around $500 and set me back a year. There was a guy, nickythegreek on this forum that was running all over the Midwest putting real miles on one of these things with stock wheels. His thread is in the cafe but he hasn't been around for a while. The guy had stones for doing real miles on a chopper, it did appear that most of his miles were on nice smooth highways and not what we get in N.E. And Canada. |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by Jeremy on 05/31/16 at 04:21:48 Any more progress on this? I'm working on a VV roller and just bought a GS550 wheel off of eBay and the VV axle bushings. Appreciate the info so far! |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by FDM on 05/31/16 at 05:48:54 Hi, thanks for asking. I've actually been finishing up on the sheet metal this week. It was actually starting to look like a bike again before I had to take it apart to do weld in some tight spots. Also took some filler rod and the old grinder and cleaned up a bunch of the horrible looking welds that were on the small peice of factory frame that remains. That quick and easy task was well worth the results. Some of the welds on that thing looked like some 15 year old Japanese kid must have done them blindfolded 30 years ago. Went with the tc bros fake oil tank, as generic a peice as it is it happened to be the exact size that I could get to fit so had I whipped something up on my own it would have been pretty much identical so I went with it. I also used tc bros air bag seat mount. It required a lot more finagling to make it work then I'd hoped. They call it a "universal" piece but what I found is that the "spring" is quite tall for a "short chop" like this and so the mount requires fabbing up a bar which drops down the mounting point lower onto the frame so that the seat is something close to level. This required dropping the mount down into the area that the fake oil tank is supposed to be. |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by Jeremy on 05/31/16 at 06:50:07 Thanks! Always looking for threads from those that have gone before ;D I'm in sort of a weird position. I bought one complete bike (a '96), but he threw in the VV kit, an already cut frame that included the title, and a complete front end. So I'm doing a stripped down bobber-ish job on the complete bike, but also working on the VV half-bike as well. That'll probably be a long time coming, since I have to buy an engine, chain conversion, and all the other bits and pieces to make it into a complete bike. The GS wheel will at least get into "roller" status :) Anyway, looking forward to seeing your progress. It's looking awesome! |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by batman on 05/31/16 at 17:55:48 I think if I were doing this build I'd stay with the stock wheels and gain the needed ground clearance by 4or6 inch extended fork tubes less money, less hassle.The longer wheel base would enhance the ride on a hardtail anyway. |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by FDM on 06/01/16 at 04:42:11 I went with a chain tensioner that I got from TroyFab in Rhode Island. It is a nicely made piece. I was pleasantly surprised when it arrived and I pulled it out of the package to find that it is nice and heavy and well made. It also mounts to the side rail which is nice on VV tails. The tensioner isn't necessary for chain clearance issues within the frame as it was on a couple of the other VV related threads on this forum. The chain runs clearly through the frame without it but is a long chain and I'm running a pretty full fender hence the tensioner. |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by Jeremy on 06/01/16 at 15:11:02 Looks great! Was your concern that chain slack would hit the fender? |
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Title: Re: Voodoo Vintage hardtails Post by FDM on 06/02/16 at 05:00:32 The clearances between the chain and frame rails are tight so I figured the tensioner was a good idea to help keep everything running in the right places. Im not worried about the chain slapping it but I'm running a full length fender and there is only so far you can go in the axle slots. This will allow me to tighten the tension on the chain as it stretches without worrying about running out of room under the fender. |
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