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Message started by stewmills on 09/18/14 at 07:58:56

Title: Heat Shield Questions
Post by stewmills on 09/18/14 at 07:58:56

I used the heat shield that came with my dyna muffler. I think it looks good, but I am wondering of it is getting too hot or if i just never felt how hot the factory shield got.

There appears to be less clearance on this shield versus the larger factory shield, and on the front end the shield actually touches the header pipe. I robbed a piece of the fabric material from the back of the factory shield and glued it on (jb weld) to this spot in an effort to create a small heat barrier and reduce friction/rubbing on the header as well. Still got pretty hot.

Got some muffler repair tape and folded it over to make a thicker barrier and it still got fairly hot and the factory glue (supposedly heat resistant) was all stankin' and smokin' when i got to the office (7 mile ride).

a) Is there a better, cheap alternative to making a heat pad/friction barrier where the pipes touch to minimize the heat on the shield?

b) Should I stick more padding on the inside brackets to step it off the muffler a little mire or will it not really matter and get just as hot since it's so close and the key to this puzzle is air moving across it while moving?

c) How hot do yall's after market heat shields get? Hot enough to melt your britches or just hot enough to make you realize you don't want to keep touching it?

Thanks all!

Title: Re: Heat Shield Questions
Post by verslagen1 on 09/18/14 at 08:31:32

Key to heat shields being heat shields is air gap and air flow.
Otherwise they will heat up the same as whatever they're attached to.
pipe wrap may help but it's sure to discolor what's underneath/stink when wet.

I'd think you'd want it cooler that what will cause a burn, but you may have to settle for less than what will burn your pants.

I'd shift it back till it was off the header pipe or raise it up.

Title: Re: Heat Shield Questions
Post by stewmills on 09/18/14 at 08:46:51

I have two of the shields (same as what's on there) so I'll play around with one and see how I can modify it to give me more air flow. Worst case. I'll get what some of the other members have referenced and see if it works better. I think they got their for around $10 or so.

On a positive note, today's first official production run proved to be good. Nice sound, very smooth engine performance, and I actually felt like it ran a little better on the top end as I was rolling into 65mph and didn't realize I was cruising along that fast (well 'fast' is sorta relative I guess). Not sure if the dyna helped with this or it's just me wanting it to have helped to validate my efforts, but I like it.

Rolling off the the throttle and running through the gears I get very little pops and crackles as some have noted, but when do get them I embrace them, stiffen up my shoulders a little, and look around to see who heard the awesome rumbles from my mean, grumbling machine ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Heat Shield Questions
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/18/14 at 13:31:28

I'd want to see close to 1/4" gap and the ability for air to flow between the header and shield. Can you post a pic of the inside of the shield and let us see how it mounts? We might be able to help you figure out how to get it spaced right and mounted up nice.

Title: Re: Heat Shield Questions
Post by Dave on 09/18/14 at 13:44:32

The problem with the front of the shield, is that the Savage header outer pipe has a 2" diameter....while the original header used on the Harley is 1-3/4" ID pipe. Harley has nice chrome shields that hide the smaller pipe behind it. The shield on your muffler used to have a larger shield on the header pipe that connected to the muffler...and a smaller header pipe hidden behind it. (Next time you see a Harley.....go look at the shield set up).

I really believe that these shields are cosmetic additions.....the exhaust on these bikes get hot...with or without the shields. The shields hide the clamps, bluing, and rust. While the shields may lower the temperature some.....they will still be hot and most likely capable of burning your polyester pants and bare skin.

(I have purposely avoided calling these "heat shields" in my post).

Title: Re: Heat Shield Questions
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/18/14 at 14:08:56

Given those details about the different sizes of the pipes the shield mounts to and,of course,the obvious but rarely stated fact regarding the actual function of the "heat shield",what it does and,more to the point,doesn't Do,the question becomes IMO,is there anything really to be gained by working on the way it's mounted? If you decide to put the time in to see about spacing it out some,I'll sure put some time into studying the pics and see if I can be of any help.

Title: Re: Heat Shield Questions
Post by stewmills on 09/18/14 at 20:28:55

Justin and Dave:

I do feel this is more of a cosmetic than a true super duty heat shield after reviewing your comments and considering my case. I like the longer, sleek look of it and think if I get it off the header and increase the space it will suffice.

I have some thoughts on adding a spacer using the little hole in the clamp bracket, just gotta get time to tinker in between yardwork and installing laundry room cabinets. :o :o

If you have suggestions, I'll take `em.

Title: Re: Heat Shield Questions
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/18/14 at 21:25:35

I see myself with a pair of tin snips and a coupla tin cans. I'd pull the clamps and look at how it fits and start shimming. Remember,the clamp is gonna wrap around the pipe on the bike,so shims have to be bent and fitted to the pipe,not the radius we see inside the shield. But it's gonna hafta fit some what with that or you risk it rocking.. It's not gonna be hard to do. I just don't know anything about you,your tools,experience..nothing.. But,if it's clamped down good enough that it won't move,then you don't have to screw anything into the hole.

Title: Re: Heat Shield Questions
Post by stewmills on 09/19/14 at 07:55:47

Justin, that's sorta what I was thinking. If I don't have anything to scrap at home, my brother has access to aluminum plate and a water jet and I think some nice aluminum plates stacked in there (bent to the radius) would be perfect especially considering that aluminum would dissipate the heat faster than a piece of steel or something. I'd probably jbweld the plate to the shield bracket just to keep it from wiggling out with the vibration.

I'm no fancy fabricator, but I have grinders and small cutting tools, a small welder, and such and know enough to be dangerous and will try anything. I like to make stuff just to see if I can. :) So cutting, bending, beating, attaching, etc. are things I can do, just don't critique the cosmetic beauty (or lack there of ) of the finished product. ;)

Title: Re: Heat Shield Questions
Post by Dave on 09/19/14 at 09:34:09

Don't use aluminum as a spacer, as heat will be transferred through it easily. You want spacers that don't have good ability to transfer heat, like ceramic tiles, or the stuff that Suzuki uses on the header shield.

JB Weld also will not handle temperatures reached in the exhaust system. It will work on most engine blocks....but not the exhaust.

Title: Re: Heat Shield Questions
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/19/14 at 11:15:54

Man,don't make it a science project. Take the cans the corn and green beans came in,use the snips,cut some rectangles,bend them to the pipe. Bend one,then stack one and bend it,or,cut a few and run a clamp down on them and they will conform. If you cut them long,okay,once they are properly radiused then cut them to length. Now you've got a stack of crap you'll never get "In There" unless you stick it all together.. As Dave said JB won't survive the heat,,Ohh well,,you gotta do something,,the clamp should hold the shims in,just don't cut them so skinny as the clamps. Make them wide enough and they will stay. And whatever you can do to get them in and lined up is fair. Even if it's gonna get burnt out. So on the edges,not between,or if there is room and you can drill holes and run a tiny"twist-tie" wire at a couple of corners,,lotsa ways to skin that cat. No reason for it to eat a day..
Even if you Do wind up with a thin layer of JB in there,just keep an eye on it. It's not gonna fly off or go from"Well,gee whiz Wally,it was on there rock solid just a minute ago and now it's just barely even hanging on." Might stink a little. I dunno..

Title: Re: Heat Shield Questions
Post by stewmills on 09/19/14 at 11:43:31

No science project? I think you missed this part:

787F6E7C66626767780B0 wrote:

I like to make stuff just to see if I can. :) )

I think I have too much of my brother in me...He is OCD/meticulous/crazy. Ask him for a pencil to take notes and he'll go fall a tree, round up some lead/graphite, and make you a pencil because the ones at the store aren't good enough. Sorta joking, but he was building an 8 x 16 garage door frame and stressing because it was 1/4 inch out of square and wanted to grind/polish all the welds that would be covered up anyway.

Anyhow, I'll see what vegetable medley of cans I can come up with and see what I can create without getting to crazy with it.

Title: Re: Heat Shield Questions
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/19/14 at 12:12:17

Ohh trust me,I get it. I can't count the hours I've spent building things and stressing over details of no consequence. I am currently building a test light from a mini lamp socket.. I don't LIKE the ones I could go buy for 5 bucks..and I Am making a science project of it. I'm having electrical problems with the pick-up and I NEED one that is sensitive to low current And I need to be able to get it into the cab but connected to the battery ground lead that is not on the battery. I'm using a small charger for the"battery"and the lamp needs to be in series with it. It's gonna need to be a little different than the average test light. I'll need to be able to stick an amp meter in line with it,other details not worth the effort of typing.

Title: Re: Heat Shield Questions
Post by stewmills on 09/29/14 at 11:03:40

OK...so i finally got around to the heat shield last night and think I got it handled where it's off the header and there's some breathing room for air flow.

Had some small steel strapping and on the rear bracket I welded 3 pieces together and bent to the radius of the heat shield and it stepped it out close to a total of 1/2" or so from the muffler. So it didn't slip, I welded a little tit (can I say that?) on the back side and filed it down to fit in the little hole in the middle of the heat shield as seen in the previous pics. With this tit in the hole and the strap tight, it's not going anywhere (until the strap breaks!!).

Since the front clamp falls to the immediate rear of the primary pipe clamp (not on the larger radius of the muffler itself) I had to make a bracket with an extension that sorta looks like two pieces of metal in the shape of a 'C' connected with a piece in the middle, I guess like this (--( where the left side of the (--( is on the inside of the heat shield and the right side rests over the pipe.

Sorry, I was working in the poor lighting of my garage last night and pictures in the dark don't generally turn out well so I didn't take any...and partially because I thought I was just mocking up the final fit and it seemed it fit so well that I just went with it.

If anyone is wrestling with the same or a similar set-up, just bump this thread and I'll be happy to pull it off and get some pics for you.

Title: Re: Heat Shield Questions
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/29/14 at 16:05:30

Mannatlooksrealgoodman,realgoodImtellinyaman..

Title: Re: Heat Shield Questions
Post by stewmills on 09/30/14 at 06:24:33

37282E2934330232023A28246F5D0 wrote:

Mannatlooksrealgoodman,realgoodImtellinyaman..

I'm steppin' in what you're droppin' ;D

If the weather will lighten up I can hopefully ride later this week and test it out. I do think, though, that if I have a few minutes I'll take it off and make sure and use some tie wire to secure the brackets to the shield just in case it gets jolted loose I won't lose my brackets. If I do, I'll snag a few pics of my rudimentary fabricating skills. :o

Title: Re: Heat Shield Questions
Post by stewmills on 09/30/14 at 19:29:07

OK...so I ended up taking it off tonight (the heat shield, not my clothes) and here are a few pics of the brackets:

Here are the brackets. The little 'tit' on the top is what sits in the little hole on the inside bracket of the heat shield. Painted them black with the high-temp black spray paint just to try and avoid rust on the raw steel.
On the left is the taller bracket that goes on the front end where there is more space to fill (as mentioned in a previous post).
http://i59.tinypic.com/lf7ki.jpg

Side view. Here you can see the radius a little better.
http://i61.tinypic.com/2dbm35t.jpg

View of the brackets resting in place. I'll tie them on with a little piece of tie wire before installing permanently on the bike just to make sure if the strap breaks loose the bracket won't be lost.
http://i57.tinypic.com/ogxnye.jpg

http://i62.tinypic.com/24x3rpk.jpg

Enjoy!

Title: Re: Heat Shield Questions
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/30/14 at 20:12:47

You went Full ON,OCD,Science Project!

How much time went into
Number one:
Developing a mental image of the solution.
Number B
Scrounging up materials
Number three
Actually cutting,bending and fitting and installing..

I think it's a Fine example of,well,whatever it is people like me and people like you,do..
Instead of shimming it up,you designed and built parts to do the job..
Big Hat Tip to you.

Title: Re: Heat Shield Questions
Post by stewmills on 09/30/14 at 20:45:04

Thanks. It's all about the challenge. I was one of those kids that you didn't want to tell "don't do that" or "you can't do that". Prove `em wrong every time ;D ;D ;D

The mental image...sorta came to me when I was discussing it with my brother. All told I probably thought about it here and there throughout the week when I was bored. I am OCD and won't really stop until I get to it.

Materials I had...just a small piece of steel strapping.

Fabrication took about two hours to cut, bend, weld, grind, fit, refit, and finally I made myself call it good enough and stopped. :D

Yeah, I guess admitting we have a problem is the first step to recovery ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Heat Shield Questions
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/30/14 at 21:01:04

Good luck with that..
If there was a 12 step program for OCD I'd turn it into 16 steps and that would not get it,anyway. I don't know how to access them now,but I had pics of parts I made from a plastic mop bucket I machined on a drill press with a vise that would move on the X and Y axis and I fixed an AC vent on a car.. Took a ton of hours,but made selling it a lot better.. I set my teeth in something,it's ON,,,
Finally,after Years of telling myself I need to focus on getting the job done more than trying to make it a work of art I Am doing better at Just Doing the Ding Dang Jawb. But,there are just some things I can not cut corners on.

Title: Re: Heat Shield Questions
Post by stewmills on 10/01/14 at 06:24:36

I'm right there with you. Some things I can let go but some I just have to stick with for better or for worse just to know I tried.

Recent example: The teeney tiny bulb behind the "D" on my tundra's gear indicator went out. Pulled the speedo compartment completely out and found a blown bulb so I swapped it with the good bulb in the "L" that I rarely ever use (since I use "D" daily) and I still ordered new LED bulbs for the now defunct "L" and all of the other gear indicators. I'm sure the average person would have left well enough alone, but I can't not do something I know I am capable of doing.

On a brighter note, I rode to work today and the previously acclaimed non-heat shield (via Dave I think) is now in fact an official heat shield given the additional air flow. When i pulled up at work I got off the bike and literally (but cautiously) put my hand on the heat shield and it was of course quite warm but I could keep my hand resting on it as long as I wanted and it kinda felt good considering I rode this morning in ~65 degrees with no gloves.

So...for anyone wondering if the changes helped/worked, the answer is absolutely positively uhh-huh!

Title: Re: Heat Shield Questions
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/02/14 at 07:51:27

The stand off distance makes the difference. Now, instead of it being tucked in tight for the visual "Tidiness" its stepped out, to allow enough flow between it and the pipe to actually make it BE a heat shield.. And, I think it looks Phabulous..

Title: Re: Heat Shield Questions
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/02/14 at 08:29:29

Woo HOO I FOUND 'em!

http://s860.photobucket.com/?postlogin=true

See if that gets ya there..

That drill press passed on,, A friend Gave me a like new, 69 or 70 model Craftsman with 2 work tables and 2 vises. One rotates and travels on the X Y axes.. All Sears, All Made in USA/.. The pamphlet
100 ways to get more outta your drill press
has a copyright of 69.

Went lookin for the pamphlet & LO and BE Hold,, Found an owners manual for one that Juuust like it, except for the number of work surfaces..

So, heres pics, of a sort, of my drill press..

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/222/4890.pdf