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Message started by dhabicht1 on 06/17/14 at 22:12:54

Title: testing starter solenoid/starter
Post by dhabicht1 on 06/17/14 at 22:12:54

Finally getting my newly purchased S40 back together. Did chain tensioner mod changed out oil and sat or cover. The problem I'm having is starter won't turn. I have a new battery, manually actuate the decomp, I have 12 VDC at one of the large terminal at the relay but when I try to start the bike it only has 4.3 on the other side. I have tried jumping directly from the positive to the starter and it doesn't turn seems likes if I held the wire it would weld in place...same if I try to jump the large starter solenoid terminals. Any ideas would be great.

Title: Re: testing starter solenoid/starter
Post by dhabicht1 on 06/18/14 at 03:59:46

more info to add
When I hit the starter switch the decomp engages and so does the starter solenoid. I have tried to push start just to see if the engine turns and it does. Next step manually turn the engine with a wrench? I'm thinking since all the oil was drained and the tensioner was changed maybe it is too tight for the starter to turn until some oil gets circulated around. Will manually turning it circulate oil enough?

Title: Re: testing starter solenoid/starter
Post by Dave on 06/18/14 at 04:48:34

Engines don't tighten up just because you drained oil, and 4.3 volts won't make your starter turn. You won't have any luck turning the engine over manually to run oil through the engine....you won't be able to spin it fast or long enough...at less than 1,000 rpm the engine doesn't pump much oil up to the head....and at speeds less than that the oil will just flow to the bearings on the crank.

Sounds like you have a battery issue. Is the ground wire for the battery tight to the engine case? Sealed batteries can go bad in an instant.....and without warning...even new ones. I had one fail that was only 2 weeks old.

Dave

Title: Re: testing starter solenoid/starter
Post by dhabicht1 on 06/18/14 at 04:53:10

It is a brand new battery and I still have the old one which tested OK under load. I'll check ground wire this evening, where should it go to on the engine case? I don't remember seeing it when I took the cases off.

Title: Re: testing starter solenoid/starter
Post by humblegeo on 06/18/14 at 05:15:48

Same issue I'm having with mine. Battery, starter, starter relay or connections. Generic starter relays are cheap on ebay maybe $10. Starters can be disassembled and cleaned serviced with videos on youtube. Check frame connection from negative side on battery. Im not sure I like the AGM sealed batteries yet. I went thru 3 the past two days before I think I finally got a good one. I never had this kind of trouble before with batteries. I think I perfer the old lead acid type battery but they dont fit the battery box.
Good luck.

Title: Re: testing starter solenoid/starter
Post by dhabicht1 on 06/18/14 at 05:21:08

sounds like you were able to get yours working? where does the frame connection go to?

Title: Re: testing starter solenoid/starter
Post by humblegeo on 06/18/14 at 05:30:09

No it's not working yet but its at my storage facility and thats where I work on it. Plan to check a few other things today, like connections and I charged the battery for 5 hours last night. Battery reads 12.8 vdc this morning. Should be fully charged now.

Title: Re: testing starter solenoid/starter
Post by verslagen1 on 06/18/14 at 08:31:44

4C40494A414B405C19280 wrote:

Did chain tensioner mod changed out oil and sat or cover. The problem I'm having is starter won't turn.

Did you have the stator cover off?

Title: Re: testing starter solenoid/starter
Post by dhabicht1 on 06/18/14 at 08:35:37

yes I did have the cover off, the old one was all beat and had crack in it, I replaced it and swapped over all parts I'm thinking what you are about to tell me won't be good news

Title: Re: testing starter solenoid/starter
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/18/14 at 08:46:44

Pull the plug. Put it in gear & see if you can roll it,, If not ( & that LOW voltage makes me think bad things) youve got something in a bind & the starter cant spin it,
IF ( as I suspect) youve screwed yourself a bit, then the wires to the starter will be getting hot,, Its passing current but going nowhere.

Title: Re: testing starter solenoid/starter
Post by dhabicht1 on 06/18/14 at 08:49:53

I was able to push it and pop the clutch engine rolled, what on earth could be stuck? I think you may be on to something because the wire to the starter was getting warm but I didn't mess with the starter or gears at all when I took the stator cover off

Title: Re: testing starter solenoid/starter
Post by verslagen1 on 06/18/14 at 08:57:38

It's very common to put a couple of washers back in the wrong location when you have the stator cover off. them darn things jump off when you pull the cover so you don't see where they go. And if you put them back in the wrong location, the starter won't turn.

So pull the starter, reach in with your finger and try to turn a gear.
It should go in 1 direction but not the other. If it doesn't spin, that's the problem.

Both washers go on the gear with 2 sets of teeth (the torque limiter gear), 1 on either side.

Title: Re: testing starter solenoid/starter
Post by dhabicht1 on 06/18/14 at 09:04:00

I guessing the stator cover needs to be removed again to pull the starter? I noticed one washer which I put back on the top right gear from memory, maybe I didn't notice the other one

Title: Re: testing starter solenoid/starter
Post by verslagen1 on 06/18/14 at 09:17:56

no, the starter can be pulled by itself.

2 bolts on the end, lift, wiggle, pull.

oh, yeah, remove cable. ;D

Title: Re: testing starter solenoid/starter
Post by dhabicht1 on 06/18/14 at 09:36:15

thanks so much for all the help, I'll won't get a chance to take a look at it until Thursday but I feel confident your long distance diagnosis is correct

Title: Re: testing starter solenoid/starter
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/18/14 at 10:10:34

PLug out, 5th gear, Id expect it to roll pretty easy,, if not, you may have got it in a bind with the left side cover & washers out of place, You mite need to have a real good look at that cover if thats what ya find.

Title: Re: testing starter solenoid/starter
Post by dhabicht1 on 06/18/14 at 10:13:10

will do its coming off this weekend there has got to be something binding

Title: Re: testing starter solenoid/starter
Post by verslagen1 on 06/18/14 at 10:17:48

5A454344595E6F5F6F57454902300 wrote:

Starter "bind" will not affect rolling effort.
Engine will run, just can't use starter.
Engine "bind" will probably something on the clutch/cam side. :o

Title: Re: testing starter solenoid/starter
Post by dhabicht1 on 06/18/14 at 10:23:59

Engine turns so it is for sure on the stator side, must be something jammed up somehow

Title: Re: testing starter solenoid/starter
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/18/14 at 10:43:07

Right, I was trying to isolate the starter from the problem spinning over. If it wont roll, then theres something wrong away from the starter

Title: Re: testing starter solenoid/starter
Post by dhabicht1 on 06/18/14 at 10:49:27

you guys are great, I've never belonged to a forum where you can get such quick, accurate advice

Title: Re: testing starter solenoid/starter
Post by humblegeo on 06/18/14 at 11:18:24

Well I've been having the exact same issue as you (starter won't turn engine) so I've been following the replies to your original post closely. my bike is a Craigslist bike that I've only had about a week and I have no idea what the guy had done previously to the bike. I did notice the oil had been drained for some reason. I removed the starter and checked the gear to see if it would turn in one direction. it does not turn in either direction even with a screwdriver applying additional pressure so I guess I'll drain the oil back out and remove the cover and take a look.

Bikebandit calls the gear (starter limiter assambly) with two thrust washers. One on either side of the gear. The gear that the starter meshes with. Sure glad to learn about this!

Title: Re: testing starter solenoid/starter
Post by dhabicht1 on 06/18/14 at 14:41:33

just wanted to make sure the washer goes in the correct place should be on the set of gears to the left, I actually put it on the shaft where the screwdriver is pointed.

Title: Re: testing starter solenoid/starter
Post by verslagen1 on 06/18/14 at 14:58:32

yes, should be on the left gear with the retaining ring.

The washer keeps the splined shaft from eating up the case or cover.

on the other gear, basically, the washer is built into the gear.

Title: Re: testing starter solenoid/starter
Post by lkstones on 05/14/18 at 11:58:37

Whoa, this post was hard to find but save my A$$.

Replaced stator cover and would not start, just a click. Was just after a crash so assumed some problem with a broken switch somewhere along the way.

After several other attempts to find the problem....

Moved washer to shaft on the left and fired right up.

Thank You!!