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Message started by Pine on 05/22/14 at 07:19:49

Title: $400B China-Russia Gas deal
Post by Pine on 05/22/14 at 07:19:49

So hopefully an acceptable news source to all:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-05-21/russia-signs-china-gas-deal-after-decade-of-talks.html

My take:
Well first theres alot we dont know, or that isnt reported.. which itself is saying something...
(it is my belief that while the report states everything in $.. I really doubt the deal was in $ (dollars).. and THAT is the most significant part of the deal!!!!!! I really really want know why all the reports are noted in US dollars!!!!

So assuming I am right and the deal is NOT in US dollars.. what does/could that mean? What it means is that China will need rubles not DOLLARS in order to pay for their gas.  It would make sense that China would seek to gain these rubles by re-directing exports from the US to Russia. This re-direction would then lower the volume of imports from China and using supply/demand.. China imports in the US should go up in price. This isn't a China is evil thing... its just being logical. China may also see fit to reduce ( even more than they are now) their total holding of US dollars ( swapping for Rubles). The day the deal went through.. the Ruble rose in value against the dollar. I could see Russia needing less US dollars well, as the import/export with China goes up.. I would think that total sales from the US to Russia would decline somewhat and Russia would seek to bolster their Yuan holdings while decreasing their US dollar holding.

darn Pine.. sounds like its gonna really really suck for the US!!! maybe... but there will opportunities too! With China re-directing imports from the US to Russia and that causing import prices to go up.. US factories ...that at one time could not compete, will get a much needed breathing room! Imagine clothing mills, electronics, and heavy industry returning to our shores! Places like Harbor Freight would be wiped out, replaced with Ace hardware stores filled with US made tools and engines! Oh and Russia cant supply both China and Europe at the same time with that much gas.. so US exports of gas to Europe may go up, and ship building ... JOBS!

So what to do?
I suspect that we will see a one-two punch for the dollar:
1) China imports (volume) will go down causing a rise in prices of those imports
2) China and Russia will dump dollars causing a "glut" of dollars forcing the value of dollars to go down, which will show itself as price rises in all things.

For me this means get out of dollars (not that I have any), and get things/capital. I also would not increase debt ( which of course is never good anyway) but  as everyone will seek to move out of dollars and into capital - interest rates MUST go up. Even though we will be awash in dollars, the falling value of the dollars will mean that lenders will need to make up for fall.  If I could position myself to be part of small manufacturer.. I would.  

I am totally against playing with the stock market. Its run by crooks for the benefit of crooks ONLY.  Unless your on the inside with the crooks.. your on the outside with victims.  

Pine predictions May 22, 2014
8-)

Title: Re: $400B China-Russia Gas deal
Post by Paraquat on 05/22/14 at 09:18:03

Right now Putin is in China meeting with Chinese President Xi Jinping in Shanghai. Though the talks are ongoing, they have already released a joint statement which takes several jabs at U.S. foreign policy. Specifically, the two countries committed to "reject unilateral sanctions rhetoric". Putin and Xi also agreed to expand military cooperation and expressed "grave concern" over the crisis in Ukraine, and condemned the funding of regime change. The U.S. government was not named explicitly in the condemnation, but the inference was very clear.

"The sides noted the need to respect historical heritage of countries, their cultural traditions and independently chosen public and political system, the system of values and ways of development; counteract interference in domestic affairs of other countries, give up the language of unilateral sanctions, organize aid, fund or encourage activity aimed at changing a constitutional system of a foreign country or its involvement in any multipartite association or union" the document stated.

The statement also called for “universal rules of behavior in information space,” saying that some communication technologies run "contrary to international stability and security, damaging countries’ sovereignty and violating personal privacy."

One one hand, this shot is obviously directed at the NSA, but on the other it seems to signal Russia and China's agreement on issues of online speech. As we reported earlier Russia has recently passed new laws regulating bloggers and requiring them to register with the government.
Related: Russia and China Announce Joint Naval Drills as NATO Declares Russia an Enemy

Some pro-Western analysts are watching the emergence of this Russia-China Alliance with alarm, insisting that it will have a disastrous impact if allowed to continue, and calling for diplomatic efforts to disrupt it. Incidentally these are often the same people who avidly pushed for tougher sanctions against Russia during the Ukrainian crisis, and who refused to report on the overwhelming evidence of U.S. involvement in the coup.

Western opposition to the Sino-Russia alliance is understandable. With China firmly in Russia's corner, the U.S. and Europe have no leverage over Moscow. However, less understandable is the fact that these pundits didn't see this coming.
Related: Why Rebellion Is Spreading In Ukraine

What on earth did the Obama administration expect would happen when they injected themselves into territorial disputes between China and their neighbors, while at the same time saber rattling in eastern Europe, and imposing punitive 'sanctions' against Putin's inner circle? Then, to top it all off, the U.S. government filed charges against China this week for corporate espionage. Taken as a whole it would be difficult to come up with a more effective way to push these two countries together if one tried.

The outcome of these moves was so obvious that I'm hesitant to chalk it up to gross incompetence.
Related: The Lines of Economic Warfare Are Being Drawn & The U.S. Is Not Going to Win

At any rate, the idea that John Kerry or anyone in the U.S. State Department has the diplomatic skill (or the leverage) to pit China against Russia on the global scale is patently absurd.

http://scgnews.com/china-russia-solidify-their-alliance-and-issue-joint-statement-condemning-us-tinkering

These are interesting times.


--Steve

Title: Re: $400B China-Russia Gas deal
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/22/14 at 21:32:18

Whilke the report states the value of the deal in dollars, youre correct in your belief the deal wasnt DONE in dollars. This will be a more & more common occurrence in international dealings, further diminishing the need for dollars in international commerce.
China has divested itself of a huge sum of our debt in past months,, SUPPOSEDLY the Great Economic POwerhouse Belgium BOUGHT IT ALL!

REally? Im supposed to believe that?

Naaah,, I believe the FED is buying back its debt ( using MORE debt, laid on OUR backs), THRU Belgium.. so the People cant see whats hap[pening..


http://usawatchdog.com/fed-laundering-treasury-purchases-in-belgium-to-disguise-whats-happening-paul-craig-roberts/

Just part of the reason why the goobs NEED all those guns & bullets.

Title: Re: $400B China-Russia Gas deal
Post by mpescatori on 05/23/14 at 00:49:30

1. Last time I looked, "Russia is the enemy" was a statement from the 1980's... and NO, NATO has not (publicly) stated "Russia is the enemy" this side of the ocean...

2. Thanks to US interfernce in the Ukraine, the ethnic russian militia has captured a number of "FBI and CIA agents within Ukrainian military units"
:-?
Excuse me ? Am I looking at the old "counsellor" routine that got the US knee-deep in the Vietnam affair?

3. Thanks to too much external involvement, what was originally a bilateral issue between two neighboring Countries was, at a certain point, uncomfortably close to becoming an international affair...
...WTF are warships from the US Sixth Fleet doing in the Black Sea, cruising uncomfortably close to Ukrainian territorial waters ?
Is someone teasing someone else until "the shot that was heard around the world" is fired once again ?
::)
Not in MY back yard, not if Europe can help it...

4. Due to all the above, Russia is increasingly irritated with Europe, and is diverting all the natural gas sold primarily for domestic use to China...
...so... no heating, no cooking gas next fall/winter?
Oh... but the US will come to the rescue and sell Europe its shale gas ?
You mean... that nasty stuff obtained from soggy sand etc. ?
That nasty stuff that is so obnoxious to the environment, it is umpteen times more expensive and polluting to extract than Saudi Oil ?
>:(
AND
Methinks Russia and China will deal in neither rubles nor yuan, but in Euros...
...just like Lybia and Iraq did... just like Iran is currently doing...
...only this time there are no "weapons of mass distruction to go and inspect"...
...if you know what I mean...

Title: Re: $400B China-Russia Gas deal
Post by WebsterMark on 05/23/14 at 04:56:42

I just got back last night from a week at our company's HQ in Sweden and the Scandinavian countries are watching this unfold with worried eyes. Not that they are going to step in, they rarely do and don't have the means to anyway, but the economic impact could really hurt what's already been a slow couple of years. One thing that Americans always forget that most Europeans never do is how physically close everyone is in Europe. It a couple hours on a plane, you can be a 2 just about anywhere in Europe.

Also, they get t to of cool bike models we never see over here.......dammit!

Title: Re: $400B China-Russia Gas deal
Post by mpescatori on 05/23/14 at 06:40:40

Talk about a "crowded Nation"...

http://home.comcast.net/~oscar.voss/US6%20NV%20Next%20Gas%20163%20Miles%20-_DSC2078.jpg

versus this...

http://media.web.britannica.com/eb-media/26/52826-004-B9954E3E.gif
Population density in Europe according to Encyclopaedia Britannica

and this...

http://abitaresociale.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/3_percentuale-popolazione-con-piu-di-65-anni.jpg?w=700
Population density of over 65y.o. people

Europe IS far different from the US.

Title: Re: $400B China-Russia Gas deal
Post by WebsterMark on 05/23/14 at 08:28:32

There was a billionaire, Steve Fossett, who crashed his plane 'somewhere' in California. They didn't know his exact flight path, but had a general idea. It was in a very remote area. Took 11 months to find it....  There are still other crashes in California that they know the general area where they are but have not found them yet. "General area" when you are talking about California, Texas and Alaska are big enough to swallow many other countries!

Population density of EU is something like 3 1/2 times greater than US.  

Title: Re: $400B China-Russia Gas deal
Post by mpescatori on 05/24/14 at 05:01:03

http://media.web.britannica.com/eb-media/26/52826-004-B9954E3E.gif

EUROPE



http://modernsurvivalblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/USA-population-density-per-square-mile.jpg

USA



http://www.catsg.org/cheetah/07_map-centre/7_1_entire-range/thematic-maps/human_density_africa_2000.png

AFRICA



Now you understand why we say we're crowded...  ;)

Title: Re: $400B China-Russia Gas deal
Post by WebsterMark on 05/24/14 at 05:46:34

just as an interesting side note; I saw a math problem one time and I did the calculations. In the Bible, it gives a size of what's referred to as the New Jerusalem; aka heaven. It's a 1500 cubic square miles; 1500 wide, 1500 wide and 1500 high. Approximately the area of the US west of the Mississippi and then up 1500 miles.  

Interesting but if you divide that into 7 mile high 'plates' (7 miles because since planes fly around 35,000 feet, that is the practical size of our atmosphere) you get 235 plates, each 1500 x 1500 x 7 miles high. Everyone human who has ever lived on earth would fit in this space with a population density of a typical Midwest state....

Title: Re: $400B China-Russia Gas deal
Post by mpescatori on 05/25/14 at 01:50:09

Webster, what you describe is  a "1500 mile long cube", not "1500 cubic miles".

And anyway, the Book of Revelation already reveals all.

The "Moltitude of 144thousand"

- 12 is the number of the Tribes of Israel, i.e., God's chosen People

- 12x12 in Hebrew theology means "the People of Peoples" = Humanity

- 1000 in all ancient symbolism meant "eternity" or "completeness"

Hence, 144,000 = The Entirety of Humanity, for Eternity"

Else, as there are far more Jehovas' Witnesses than 144,000, even those guys have got it wrong (again... as Forrest Gump would note)

To me, it doesn't matter what Religion or Denomination you are or may be, as long as you livn Peace according to your laws, you are Good.

Now..what does all this have to do with the Russia-China Gas deal ?  :D

Title: Re: $400B China-Russia Gas deal
Post by WebsterMark on 05/25/14 at 05:02:59

Geez....you're one picky sob Mpes!  

Has nothing to do with it. Your population density comments brought to mine the "1500 long cube" description.

And the "entirety of humanity for eternity" fits comfortably in that 1500 mile long cube.

Title: Re: $400B China-Russia Gas deal
Post by mpescatori on 05/26/14 at 01:19:24

Geez....you're one picky sob Mpes!  

Who ? Me ?

::)

Yup !!!

;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: $400B China-Russia Gas deal
Post by Pine on 05/26/14 at 07:51:16

Well back to the Russia-China gas sale...

Mpescatori, I am curious as to why you think they will make the sale in euros? Doesn't that just put them into a different but equally bad currency with regards to their own currency fate/control?  (not saying your wrong.. just curious to why)

Title: Re: $400B China-Russia Gas deal
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/26/14 at 09:02:16

Im curious about that, too, BUT, no matter what, if the sales arent in Dollars, then there are a ton of dollars "out there" that are falling out of favor.. That means theyll come home,, you do the math..

Title: Re: $400B China-Russia Gas deal
Post by mpescatori on 05/27/14 at 05:41:40


467F7873627964160 wrote:
Well back to the Russia-China gas sale...

Mpescatori, I am curious as to why you think they will make the sale in euros? Doesn't that just put them into a different but equally bad currency with regards to their own currency fate/control?  (not saying your wrong.. just curious to why)


The Federal Reserve has been pumping new cash for the last ... 15 years in order to solve the US economic crisis.

The European central bank printed a predetermined amount of cash, distributed it to Nations, and told them "this is your allowance, make it work".

When some EU Nations pointed out "it isn't enough, we need more" the reply was "pay your debts and get opn with life".

So, hard times and grinding of teeth, but the economy is getting better because public spending is being slashed.

Moreover, popular economy is far different in different nations.

In Italy, for example, over 80% families own the home they live in.
And banks only give you a mortgage for max. 80% of the stated value of the house - and ask for your employer's statement, no self-certification you earn amillion/year.

That's why Freddie Mac and others went bankrupt, and ruptured the housing speculation bubble, while in Europe there was no such bubble.

Title: Re: $400B China-Russia Gas deal
Post by verslagen1 on 05/27/14 at 09:03:22


0E1306100002170C110A630 wrote:
In Italy, for example, over 80% families own the home they live in.
And banks only give you a mortgage for max. 80% of the stated value of the house - and ask for your employer's statement, no self-certification you earn amillion/year.

That's why Freddie Mac and others went bankrupt, and ruptured the housing speculation bubble, while in Europe there was no such bubble.

Not an expect, only know what I went thru to get a loan, I paid 20%, and I got a loan during the toughest part of the scandal.  And if anyone did a self cert of income it was cause they sold a commodity on a corner.   ;)

housing speculation bubble-yes there are house flippers, but these guys just don't buy a house and resell it the next day for a profit, most are renovated.  taking a '80's built house and bringing it up to current standards.  only speculation I heard of was of business property from oversea buyers.

Title: Re: $400B China-Russia Gas deal
Post by Pine on 05/27/14 at 14:04:02


706D786E7E7C69726F741D0 wrote:
[quote author=467F7873627964160 link=1400768389/0#12 date=1401115876]Well back to the Russia-China gas sale...

Mpescatori, I am curious as to why you think they will make the sale in euros? Doesn't that just put them into a different but equally bad currency with regards to their own currency fate/control?  (not saying your wrong.. just curious to why)


The Federal Reserve has been pumping new cash for the last ... 15 years in order to solve the US economic crisis.

The European central bank printed a predetermined amount of cash, distributed it to Nations, and told them "this is your allowance, make it work".

When some EU Nations pointed out "it isn't enough, we need more" the reply was "pay your debts and get opn with life".

So, hard times and grinding of teeth, but the economy is getting better because public spending is being slashed.

Moreover, popular economy is far different in different nations.

In Italy, for example, over 80% families own the home they live in.
And banks only give you a mortgage for max. 80% of the stated value of the house - and ask for your employer's statement, no self-certification you earn amillion/year.

That's why Freddie Mac and others went bankrupt, and ruptured the housing speculation bubble, while in Europe there was no such bubble.[/quote]

My (admittedly very limited) understanding of the situation ( euros) was that, as with dollars and most every other currency,... inflation (due to increased currency creation) was still an issue.  While I have zero evidence to back that up , it would seem counter intuitive that the euro and the US dollar have kept more or less on par and we KNOW that the dollar supply has skyrocketed.  If what you say is true... that US dollar is being inflated and euro is not... it would seem that dollar should have dropped in value to the euro much more than is the case.  

However... Russia, due to the US banking sanctions brought on by Ukraine, sanctions that the EU agree with, has reasons to move away from dollars and euros other that just simple inflation (which is bad enough).

As always your insight appreciated!

8-)  

Title: Re: $400B China-Russia Gas deal
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/27/14 at 18:15:49

Key word
manipulation..??

Title: Re: $400B China-Russia Gas deal
Post by mpescatori on 06/04/14 at 00:24:29

Manipulation ?  :-?

http://https://images.angelpub.com/2012/28/15244/manipulation.jpg

Of course not !!!

http://medicaltv.eu/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Photo-Manipulation-Oooops.jpg

Sir... I am sincerely appalled by your accusations !  :D There is no manipulation, none, I tell you !

http://https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR8bUUN4HlZkW-JYC89tMGpTnJOg-TAntQvIv24a-oZZKSs3ZdU

http://www.secretsofthefed.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/methods-of-manipulation.jpghttp://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/freedom/pyramid.jpg

http://th06.deviantart.net/fs21/PRE/f/2007/259/f/6/Matrix_Pill_by_arielgr92.jpg

Have a nice day, folks !  8-)

(now... where's that pill...)


Title: Re: $400B China-Russia Gas deal
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/04/14 at 06:57:41

Next time you dont agree with me just say so, man,, geeze..



:)

I like the guy w/ the glasses one,, man thats some prescription..

Title: Re: $400B China-Russia Gas deal
Post by mpescatori on 06/05/14 at 02:03:43


312E282F32350434043C2E22695B0 wrote:
Next time you dont agree with me just say so, man,, geeze..



:)

I like the guy w/ the glasses one,, man thats some prescription..


What ? and take away all the fun from searching for nifty google pics ?  ;D ;D ;D

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