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Message started by ihasabike on 05/13/14 at 17:12:32

Title: Regearing for more gears?
Post by ihasabike on 05/13/14 at 17:12:32

I've had my S40 for about 2 weeks now, and I'm wishing this thing had more gears. So I'm wondering if there is a drop in transmission or some kind of way to get more gears that will give me a smooth second gear in slow turns and lower RPMs when cruising on the highway at 75mph. Any ideas?

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by S-P on 05/13/14 at 17:37:38

From what I've read, you can do a chain conversion (I'm sure there are discussions in the tech section). You're swapping chain maintenance issues and some bucks for the conversion for some lower RPMs at higher highway speeds. You need to decide if you ride enough highway miles to make it worth it to you.

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by engineer on 05/13/14 at 17:48:21

Quote:

So I'm wondering if there is a drop in transmission or some kind of way to get more gears

Haven't heard of any. Adding more gears is a major undertaking even for the manufacturer.

Quote:

will give me a smooth second gear in slow turns and lower RPMs when cruising on the highway at 75mph

I understand your complaint about an awkward point when turning corners in second or first. Today I rode my other bike around some well know corners and noticed it had exactly the same problem on those same corners as the Savage does, too fast in second so had to do them in 1st. That's the way it is. I had a dirt bike that did all the corners in second but it wasn't any good on the open road.

You shouldn't be lugging the engine in second. If you are going that slow downshift to 1st. That goes for any vehicle.

Many people on this forum agree that 5th gear should have been made with a bigger gap from 4th to 5th so that highway speeds could be done at lower revs.

Quote:

Any ideas?

Some people change the final drive ratio. There are two ways to do it. One is by replacing the belt drive with a chain and sprockets. Then you can pick whatever ratio you want. Some on this forum have substituted a different final drive pulley for the existing belt drive. Both methods require a decent amount of work and expense. I have a slightly larger tire on mine which changed my ratio slightly, I can feel it when I start out in first gear. There are some good threads on this forum about changing to a chain and sprocket. Changing the overall ratio will help your top end revs but it will make your 2nd gear turns even more difficult. Easiest solution, downshift to 1st when negotiating a tight street corner.

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by engineer on 05/13/14 at 17:55:58

You are in luck ihasabike. Dave's thread about pulley conversion just popped up in the current threads with your post. "Kawasaki Pulley Conversions"

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by ihasabike on 05/13/14 at 18:38:30

I'm bummed there is no drop in transmission for the S40. That Versy guy should just make a drop in 6 or 7 gear transmission. I'm pretty sure that would sell like hotcakes.

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by pgambr on 05/13/14 at 18:44:13

Just do the chain conversion then you can stretch out the gears as much as you want. Put a really big from front sprocket on.

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by ihasabike on 05/13/14 at 18:52:22

I'll be honest, there is no way I am doing a chain conversion on this thing myself. Is there is a pro in the DFW area that will do it for me? If so, I have the money. Other than that, I'm more likely to buy one that has already been converted. Anyone selling one of those?

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by verslagen1 on 05/13/14 at 19:04:01

I wish I could but hell no.
I wish I had a few spare trannys laying around from other bikes.

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by ihasabike on 05/13/14 at 19:06:56

253621203F3234363D62530 wrote:

I wish I could but hell no.
I wish I had a few spare trannys laying around from other bikes.

What if I bought a new one of your choice and sent it to you?

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by oldNslow on 05/13/14 at 19:08:08

Quote:

...a drop in 6 or 7 gear transmission.

Changing the final drive ratio by switching to a chain drive and playing with different sprocket sizes may not make enough of a difference to make you happy. You might be happier in the long run with a different motorcycle.

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by pgambr on 05/13/14 at 19:09:37

http://shop.rycamotors.com/chain_conversion_kit.html

Their is instructions on the web site. If you got tools, the forum can answer whatever questions may come up.

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by pgambr on 05/13/14 at 19:12:06

Quote:

I wish I could but hell no

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/13/14 at 19:37:01

Ride it for a few months,, YOull get used to droppin into first & ramming the thing thru turns

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by ihasabike on 05/13/14 at 19:58:50

716E686F72754474447C6E62291B0 wrote:

Ride it for a few months,, YOull get used to droppin into first & ramming the thing thru turns

Yeah, I think i can get used to the low gear aspect. But driving at 5k rpms at 75 mph, when the engine redlines (according to the manual) at 6k rpms leaves me wanting more. Plus, the vibrations simply become uncomfortable past 55 mph.

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by WD on 05/13/14 at 22:31:25

Vibration? That's easy... change the handlebar for something comfortable and order some decent grips. Decent means like the old Gran Turismo jobbies that Emgo (among others) is cranking out copies of. Finding them in 1" can be a bit of a pain, but worth the effort. Also, pop off one riser cap, drill a hole, and fill the bar with sand or bird shot. No more vibration.

Gearing? Pull off the front pulley cover (3 8mm bolts). Spin off the 32mm nut. Swap on the front chain conversion sprocket. Put the nut and the cover back on once the chain is draped around the sprocket. Drop out the rear wheel assembly (2 bolts you back off, and 1 axle bolt you pull out). Remove the pulley bolts, toss the pulley in the junk bin, bolt on the sprocket. Install the wheel all the way forward in the swingarm notches, drape the chain around the rear pulley, add the master link (clip type is fine). Set your tension. Adjust the rear brake. Go for a ride. Reset the rear brake a couple more times.

Takes about as long to do as to type. Have not done either of my current rides, have converted another local one. Piece of cake.

I'm lazy, I just keep the engine wound up a bit.

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by old_rider on 05/13/14 at 22:53:09

If your bike is vibrating so bad a 55mph that you can not tolerate it, there is a problem with your wheel balance, or your engine is loose.

At 65-70 you should have some vibrations, but not shake your teeth vibrating.

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by WD on 05/13/14 at 23:10:12

I ran my 98 for years with only one bolt in the top mount, 15" rise bars, very high mounted mirrors... and could see everything fine in the mirrors, which were not blurry.

Check your riser bolts, the nuts can back off. Check the riser bushings, they are cheap rubber and get worn out, I usually replace mine with oilite (self lubricating) bronze. Check your wheels, if the rims have a bunch of glue on weights, somebody at some point was extremely lazy and mounted the tires improperly. For that matter, check your tire pressures, overinflated can cause a lot of front end issues. You want no more than the maximum pressure listed on the sidewall, less if you like a softer ride. If the maximum safe pressure listed is less than 35psi, you need a better quality tire... cheap tires can cause a lot of handling woes... won't be buying anymore Shinko 712Fs with their 33psi max, I like running 40psi front and rear.

Also, check the tension on your steering head bearings, they do need to be reset occasionally. And, they are old style Timken bearings, not sealed bearings, so, they need to be greased every once in a while.

The Savage is straight out of the late 1970s, except the factory forgot to install a kick start mechanism.

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by ihasabike on 05/14/14 at 05:33:03

5546020 wrote:

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/14/14 at 07:21:48

Check the peg bolts & moto0r mounts

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/14/14 at 08:58:48

Guys,, our new rider hasnt had time to learn the bikes strong points. The bike needs a good going over, making sure things are tight, pegs, motor mounts,etc, to kill the vibes. He said he wouldnt even begin to try that chain conversion,, so,, if that chain conversion is intimidating, then that "Inside the transmission" thing would be an absolute heart attack.. The only way I would even consider splitting the cases would be
A The engine is dead & I just wanna see what all is in there
or
B I have a spare engine Im gonna play with

But to walk off into my one & only running engine because I dont like the vibration level? Uhh, no,,Not This old boy,,

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by Dave on 05/14/14 at 10:12:13

7D6264637E7948784870626E25170 wrote:

Naaaah....I was throwing out that thought to the general population....hoping that someone, someday, would be in a spot to expore that longshot possibility. It is far easier to change the final drive ratio with a pulley change....or go to a chain and sprocket.....or an oversize rear tire.

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by WD on 05/14/14 at 12:07:05

2021283A282B20222C490 wrote:

[quote author=5546020 link=1400026352/0#14 date=1400045485]Vibration? That's easy... change the handlebar for something comfortable and order some decent grips. Decent means like the old Gran Turismo jobbies that Emgo (among others) is cranking out copies of. Finding them in 1" can be a bit of a pain, but worth the effort. Also, pop off one riser cap, drill a hole, and fill the bar with sand or bird shot. No more vibration.

This modification sounds doable. Mind you, I just spent nearly an hour searching the web trying to figure out what a "riser cap" is, and I'm still not sure. But if the idea is just to fill the handlebars with sand or shot, I bet I can figure out a way to do that.

As far as grips, would these grips work?

http://shop.rycamotors.com/grips.html

Also, do I have to get different handle bars or can I do this modification with the stock handlebars? If I do get new handlebars, what kind of limitations are there? Do they have to be 1 inch, for example? Do you suggest any handlebars in particular?

[/quote]

Yep, those exact grips, and that is a great price for them. Will be ordering a set for my own daily rider.

Riser cap is the upper clamp that holds the bar in place. You can also remove the switch boxes and drill the holes (one per side) under those if you want to fill the entire handlebar.

ANY 1" Harley, Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Yamaha or aftermarket bar can work. I'm 6'2" 235# with a 35" inseam and a 72" tip to tip "wing span".... I generally use wide handlebars or high and wide handlebars.

The epitome of comfort and handling for me was my last Panhead, a 1957 rigid barhopper with a springer, Flanders dogbones and a medium rise buckhorn bar...
http://i1277.photobucket.com/albums/y490/mphsgal/LISA-HP/Photos/The%20Bikes/JunkPan_zpseb388e5c.jpg
Gone but not forgotten, Rust in Pieces. She's actually in storage out in Buckley WA with the friend I got her from. and Rust in Pieces is actually that bikes name, it's a serious s*** pile of a shipwreck. Needs everything redone, to the tune of about $28K...

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/14/14 at 22:24:56

& make sure the bolts are tight..

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by verslagen1 on 05/14/14 at 22:27:33

756A6C6B7671407040786A662D1F0 wrote:

& make sure the bolts are tight..

Here... hold my beer [smiley=beer.gif]

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by ihasabike on 05/15/14 at 04:44:44

I'm really talking about "hand numbing" vibration, not "teeth rattling" vibration. Different standards for "intolerable," I guess.

I might be able to get my husband to help me with some of this stuff, but we know a mechanic who owns and works on motorbikes and who runs his own shop, so he might be able to help us if I can figure out what to do.

I'm wondering, what does WD's proposed sprocket job do as far as handling? Does it make the gearing better at the top end and worse at the bottom?

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by Dave on 05/15/14 at 06:46:00

I have "regeared" mine with Kawasaki pulleys....and I love it. It is now a fully capable freeway cruiser. First gear is now really tall, and pulling away from a stop on a hill involves a little more clutch slip to get going. If you ride with two on the bike or have it loaded with luggage.....it might be a bit too tall of gearing. At a minimum you should consider having the front pulley changed to the Kawasaki Pulley....you need to find someone with a machine shop to have the pulley cut to fit.

Thread derail post:

I don't know to capture parts manual pages and post them here - but her is the link to the LS650 transmission. The 5th gear drive and driven gear sets are part numbers 9 and 29.
http://www.hondaofflorence.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=432125&category=Motorcycles&make=SUZUKI&year=2005&fveh=10118

Here is the SV650 transmission link. The 6th gear set appears to be the same set up as far as the drive and driven arrangement, and how the fork sliders engage. Once again part numbers 9 and 29 are the parts (6th gear on this bike) that are of interest. It is not common that parts will interchange between transmission on different bikes.....but the diagram looks like the parts are very similar in arrangement. I have no idea if the shaft spacing is the same, the shaft splines match, or if the gear sets are compatable. It may be that the ratio is not helpful.....but it is the closest thing I have seen in looking through a whole bunch of parts diagrams.
http://www.hondaofflorence.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=434419&category=Motorcycles&make=SUZUKI&year=2003&fveh=10157

I watched for a while and never saw a SV650 gear set that was cheap enough to buy out of curiosity......and I don't have an LS650 gear set to compare it to. This is a long shot that it would work.....and it also requires tearing the engine completely down if the gears are a different ratio and can be swapped.

I solved the gearing issue on my bike by changing to Kawasaki pulleys, and it works well enough I no longer have any reason to go into the transmission.

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by ihasabike on 05/17/14 at 05:01:33

I noticed lately that I don't think my hands have gone numb since I got the dry filter issue sorted out and the stock pipe reinstalled. The dry oil bath filter was making my bike stall. Is it possible the dry filter and/or aftermarket shorty pipe also produced increased vibrations at higher RPMs or road speeds?

EDIT: Nevermind, I just duplicated the problem. I think it happens at high speeds on the country roads around here with rougher asphalt than the smoother interstates.

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/22/14 at 11:07:03

44454C5E4C4F4446482D0 wrote:

SOME of the felt vibration has to do with just how firmly youre gripping the bars. If you arent wearing gloves, you should be. You go down your hands are very likely to get messed up. Just some good leather work gloves will help. Dont go cheap, look at the leather edge. Ive forgotten what the color is, but theres vegetable cured leather & theres chemical cured, chemical cured puts heavy metals on your palms, which absorb things, Bad News,, Cheap leather gloves, like Harbod Freight, from China, NO.. Ill wear them, IF Im only gonna wear them long enough to "Do Something", not long enough to sweat.
You mite even go for some gloves with gel pads in the palm. I noticed my right hand went numb more than the left, so I decided Id see how softly I could hold the gas on & the numbness issue went away,,
Once I learned I could literally just lay my hand on the gas & it stay "right there" everything changed. Of course, rough roads or running thru turns requires fingers around the gas, but I beat "Numb hands" by changing my habits,

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by verslagen1 on 05/22/14 at 12:00:38

I split the 2 topics regearing and reducing the vibes... OK?

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by ihasabike on 05/22/14 at 19:15:37

Cool. What's the other thread called?

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by Dave on 05/23/14 at 05:21:39

If the issue is hand fatigue......my used ST1100 came with a CrampBuster and I love it. On long rides it really takes a load off of your right hand, you don't have t squeeze the grip anymore. You just adjust the CrampBuster until you find the sweet spot....and you just rest your palm on the lever portion. If it gets in your way during riding around town....you just rotate it down out of the way and you can ignore it. To get it back you just rotate it again....and put it where it works best for you. It only takes a second to adjust....and a couple of seconds to install or remove.

I most likely never would have bought one.....if I hadn't gotten this one with the bike. It really works well.

http://crampbuster.com/

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by ihasabike on 05/23/14 at 06:07:02

Thanks! I was going to look for an aftermarket palm rest. You saved me some time. I just ordered it.

Meanwhile, my gran tourismo grips are on the way, and I have purchased a bag of #9 lead birdshot. The dealership said they will install the birdshot and grips for me when I drop the bike off with the saddle bags and turn signal relocation kit. I'll report on the effects of this mod.

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by old_rider on 05/23/14 at 08:18:44

I have both the cramp buster and a throttle rocker, I use them on long trips to help ease the cramps of long rides.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Throttle-Rocker-Original-One-Piece-Design-Fits-all-Bikes-Motorcycle-Rest-/230815583938?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35bdae4ec2&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/THROTTLE-ROCKER-II-UNIVERSAL-FOR-ANY-MOTORCYCLE-6255-/121346299337?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c40cd95c9&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Crampbuster-Motorcycle-Throttle-Cruise-Assist-Rocker-CB2-Wide-/150597660500?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item231051ef54&vxp=mtr

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by WD on 05/23/14 at 09:12:35

The bird shot "tunes" the handlebar resonance to a lower frequency. Try filling just the lower section of the bar if you have buckhorns, go ahead and fill it up if you have drag type.

Gran Turismo grips force your hand into a natural relaxed curve. Straight grips force the palm of your hand unnaturally flat. Look in your open palm, see the divot? The padded center swell of the new grip set will let your hand maintain that divot while riding, instead of your hand aching from trying to go flat on the grip.

Small changes that can/do make a world of difference. I've got hundreds of thousands of miles under my butt on motorcycle seats. My hands at full relax look like I'm gripping a set of bike handlebars. My fingers cross over each other slightly when my hands are flat, significantly when relaxed. It's genetic.

Prop your motorcycle upright and sit relaxed in the seat with your feet on the rider pegs and your hands comfortably in front of you. Where are your hands in relation to the handlebar? Can you adjust the bar to suit or does it need to be replaced with a different bend? How do your hands like the levers? You can use a set of wide levers off a cable clutch Suzuki 800 Marauder to change how your fingers work the brake and clutch levers (same perches).

Title: Re: Regearing for more gears?
Post by WD on 05/23/14 at 09:42:54

To continue where I was before our rooster "Satan" starting sounding off in the brooder...

Also, if you have not checked your tires over, do so. Running them underinflated will cause excess "buzz" in the front end. The tires will start to cup along the tread grooves, making high spots that add "buzz" if the bike is leaned over in a turn or going on rough road. Once the tire cups, it is time to replace it. The factory front tire, at the factory pressure setting, is very prone to cupping. Place a plastic bag over your hand, close your eyes and run your hand over the tire from front to back. If it feels lumpy like an alligator hide, it is time to replace the tire, tread depth is irrelevant, you can't fix it. Look over your tire sidewalls and tread, see any cracking you can stick a fingernail in? If so, change your tires, those cracks signal that the tire carcass is disintegrating, going out of round/balance from heat cycling (perfectly normal wear indicator) and are causing vibration and handling quirks.

You said you and your husband are in Texas. Go to the R.o.T. (Republic of Texas) motorcycle rally, find an ancient greybeard with an obviously well used motorcycle, and talk to him. Have him look over your bike, even if his looks like a rusted out pile of junk, odds are he rides it daily... Ask him to go over how you are sitting on your bike and what you should consider doing differently. Most really old motorcyclists are happy to talk about riding and will help out a newer rider if approached properly.

Without physically being on site to go over your bike and your interactions with it, best I can offer.