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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Ram air type cone filter /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1391206464 Message started by Greg on 01/31/14 at 14:14:24 |
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Title: Ram air type cone filter Post by Greg on 01/31/14 at 14:14:24 I am wondering if something like this could be done without hurting performance. I guess what I am asking is if I were to use a U shaped piece of tubing/pipe and attach the cone filter like this one, would the U shaped tubing hurt performance? I realize putting the filter this way won't help performance. http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/m2k3eAh-928WrMJWT0P_mWg.jpg |
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Title: Re: Ram air type cone filter Post by Serowbot on 01/31/14 at 14:40:59 It will get a lot of turbulence sticking out there... and rain... ..but hey,.. everything ain't about performance... if it's what you like, give it a try... You can always change it back or try something different... |
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Title: Re: Ram air type cone filter Post by verslagen1 on 01/31/14 at 14:45:51 Unless you got really short legs... |
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Title: Re: Ram air type cone filter Post by Greg on 02/02/14 at 10:23:33 Thanks. I will see what I can come up with. |
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Title: Re: Ram air type cone filter Post by Dave on 02/03/14 at 05:24:33 One of the potential problems with a real "ram air" approach is that if you really start to "ram" air into the carb throat....you will be lowering the vacuum created in the carb throat and upsetting the fuel/air mix. The fuel is pulled up out of the float bowl and though the metering jets and emulsion tubes by the vacuum in the carb throat. The carb float bowl is vented up through the tubes that exit the top of the carb and go up under the fuel tank.....and those will not pressurize the float bowl to match the ram air that is created. You could potentially re-route those tubes to the intake air that is being boosted.......but in reality hanging an air filter out in the breeze is not really going to create any ram air effect that will do much. (Drag cars that use ram air pressurize the entire carb so that the fuel/air mixture is consistent.) If you truly created a ram air system for the Savage that made much boost....then you have to worry that the gravity fuel system can flow fuel down into the pressurized float bowl. Hanging a cone filter out in the breeze is going to be more of a fashion statement than a performance mod. |
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Title: Re: Ram air type cone filter Post by Greg on 02/03/14 at 05:42:51 I understand and agree Dave. It is a fashion statement. That is why I called it a ram air type instead of ram air. I am just concerned about the U shaped tube. Wondering if it will hurt performance. I am not trying to boost performance. I don't want to hurt performance. |
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Title: Re: Ram air type cone filter Post by danjray on 02/03/14 at 06:32:09 The larger the radius of the bend the smoother the air flow will be, so if you give this a shot (I like the idea personally and would like to know how it goes for you) try and find the largest radius bend possible. That or you could have a straight section on either side of the u-bend so you still get the advantage of the straight sections that way. |
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Title: Re: Ram air type cone filter Post by axa on 02/04/14 at 21:28:44 needed to do such a thing on my other bike. was trying to squeeze all the power out of the small Honda CG clone and just couldn't better balance the mix at high speed any other way. |
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Title: Re: Ram air type cone filter Post by mpescatori on 02/05/14 at 01:16:22 IMHO... it's a waste of time, money and power. Most diagrams will show you graphs such as this http://www.etrailer.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/pics/A/F/AFETA-4107P_bb.jpg Oh, gee, umpteen percent performance increase ! :D What they don't tell you is that these measurements were taken in a laboratory, where they can "tailor" atospheric parameters to suit their (commercial) requirements. :-? http://www.knfilters.com/images/mas4.jpg In the real world, the true air flow will improve (maybe) like this ... http://https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQmrBWb_ZK2TCgW9rZsTM_ivPSZpCCik72xZs2GQave5L3zQFozoA ... where most of the time the improvement is negligible ... co$t a lot, nice to look at, but really... :-? Furthermore, many tests are done on filters such as this http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l275/m/m7DSFFykm6RrHIuuY8wMCjA.jpg where air is compressed in the "doughnut hole" and throught the filtering material... ...but then they sell you THIS filter in the same box, with the same fancy diagrams, but with actually a completely different aerodynamic response... http://https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTDi-oK45XSxNP45QsZ230BHI4XEtHEySVbV-zaM1yH77281sZu What's wrong with this filter ? NOTHING, provided you fit it as part of a system... http://www.performance-car-guide.co.uk/images/Boxed-Cold-Air.jpg ...where the plastic shroud acts like a "virtual chamber" where air pressure is made (more or less) equal on all sides of the filter. Now... imagine fitting such a filter to our Savage, with a "U"-shaped pipe, so that it looks forward. The plastic "nose" will actually deflect air away from the front part of the filert, creating an area of LOW air pressure, much like what we see when a pickup with a tarpaulin runs at speed and the front part of the tarpaulin will inflate ? http://www.atdynamics.com/images/CFD.jpg Nevermind the "Trailertail", look at the Orange lines in the nose and "ears" of the truck, that's low air pressure, which makes the tarp swell in the front of the loading bay. The same happens to a "closed nose" ram air filter :P little or no air in the front half of the filter. It is no wonder that V-Twin professionals at HD give you a good air filter setup as standard, and leave it to the individual to ruin it all... http://www.v8tvshow.com/V2/DynaAirFilterMod/DynaAirFilterMod_01.jpg Harley Davidson OEM setup http://https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcReV1mgB_7YSGGKRv4w1bNAzc1bef_NXx4GKKLxdhoRxhLQulIZjQ GOOD aftermarket airbox http://www.hdforums.com/forum/signaturepics/sigpic75651_1.gif BAD aftermarket airbox |
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Title: Re: Ram air type cone filter Post by Tempted on 02/05/14 at 17:05:30 Generally speaking you won't see a gain or loss in performance. Especially on a Savage. It doesn't take much air flow for <30hp. If the filter you choose is higher flowing than the stock system then you'll need to re-tune or possibly re-jet. If you change from stock intake to higher flow and add a higher flowing muffler then a re-jet will be required. |
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Title: Re: Ram air type cone filter Post by thumperclone on 02/05/14 at 22:58:35 12 volt electric turbo unit.. get the one with switch to activate unit only at wot |
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Title: Re: Ram air type cone filter Post by Dave on 02/06/14 at 06:28:10 362A372F322730212E2D2C27420 wrote:
Those electric turbos are a total waste of money and you might as well just throw your money away. People that offer those for sale should be arrested as theives and scammers. Those tiny little fans can't flow the kind of air that a 30 hp engine needs. I just looked at the grainger catalog and a 12v blower with a 4" diameter wheel flows about 100 cfm at 2" of static pressure (boost). The little electric motor turns about 3,200 rpm. These blowers are made for ventilation. The 650cc (39.66 cu. in) Savage engine at 6,500 rpm flows 895 cubic feet per minute, and the atmospheric pressure pushing the air is around 14.7 psi.....which is equivalent to 384" of static pressure, or 192 times what the tiny electric blower can produce! The electric fan only flows enough air to keep up with the Savage engine at 726 rpm.....and even at that speed the fan is only allowing the air to pass through and not producing any boost. Don't waste your money on an electric fan.....turbochargers spin up over 100,000 rpm to make boost....that tiny little electric fan at 3,200 rpm isn't going to do anything but waste electricity and become a restriction for the intake air. |
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Title: Re: Ram air type cone filter Post by thumperclone on 02/06/14 at 07:31:04 e-racing motor sports http://www.electricsupercharger.com/ |
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Title: Re: Ram air type cone filter Post by Dave on 02/06/14 at 09:42:12 5B475A425F4A5D4C4340414A2F0 wrote:
Just because they have a website....doesn't make them honest. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbGWgvJN1_8 http://www.carsdirect.com/aftermarket-parts/the-pros-and-cons-of-an-electric-supercharger http://electricsupercharger.blogspot.com/ |
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Title: Re: Ram air type cone filter Post by Serowbot on 02/06/14 at 10:41:28 That's a joke,... looks like it would slow airflow if anything... ;D... |
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Title: Re: Ram air type cone filter Post by verslagen1 on 02/06/14 at 10:42:37 112A2730212D36302B232E31420 wrote:
While I agree that it's a waste of money... I'll point out a few facts. A ventilation fan will be pushing against 14.7 psia and never a vacuum. So the cfm's will change. The intake flow pulses and the fan could act as a reflective surface to rebound the backpressure back down the pipe. But 2" of boost versus 384 natural... why bother. I might if I were tied in a drag race, not for cruising. |
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Title: Re: Ram air type cone filter Post by Tempted on 02/06/14 at 11:29:27 312D302835203726292A2B20450 wrote:
Kidding or serious? You'd be better off carrying a bottle of compressed air under your seat and opening it up at WOT. |
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Title: Re: Ram air type cone filter Post by diamond jim on 08/27/15 at 11:10:39 Just stumbled on this thread. Airflow is so much more than filter performance. Currently building a prototype intake for a bike that includes many little things that all add up to better performance. Things like minimal distance to a wall from the inlets radii, some separation between turbulent filtered air and inlet air, surface contours to maximize volume and flow, bell-shaped housing design to create a pressure drop behind the filter as well as air expansion above the inlets, look decent and all within a small format. Some of you might be interested so just thought I'd share. http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o794/Russell_Rodgers/image.jpg2_zpsu8l372qa.jpg http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o794/Russell_Rodgers/image.jpg1_zpsiutfnpoo.jpg http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/o794/Russell_Rodgers/image.jpg3_zpsbkfcshap.jpg |
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Title: Re: Ram air type cone filter Post by JutMan on 08/27/15 at 11:44:28 774C4156474B50564D454857240 wrote:
[/quote] That site has to be legit, it made a zoom noise when i launched it! |
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Title: Re: Ram air type cone filter Post by verslagen1 on 08/27/15 at 11:50:36 All that and it looks happy :) |
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Title: Re: Ram air type cone filter Post by verslagen1 on 08/27/15 at 12:58:22 A friend with a HD had put a larger air filter on his and was sucking up some road grime until he extended the air shield to cover it. http://www.savageriders.com/verslagen/Beast/beast%20mode.jpg And I got the same problem with my hammerhead air filters on the beast. I need to add some shields or live with half dirty air filters all the time. |
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