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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Technical Documents/Reference >> Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1366486692 Message started by scubachef on 04/20/13 at 12:38:12 |
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Title: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by scubachef on 04/20/13 at 12:38:12 I am finally at the point in my quest for cast wheels that I am comfortable posting where I am at. I didn't want to post something every week or so and keep everyone waiting. I know there are other threads covering the topic so some info may not be new, but hopefully this will help someone do this conversion and maybe clarify the process...or at least it will show one way to get cast wheels on your bike. I apologize for the length of the post...I'm going to try and document the process in it's entirety :) Parts list: wheels- '80 gs550l 19x2.15 front 16x2.75 rear rotor- gs 450 machined down to match the OD of the stock rotor 6ea- m8x1.25x35 bolts 24ea-m8 washers (used to space rotor) tape measure or preferably calipers assorted paints and abrasives if you intend on painting rotor/wheels etc. I started by sourcing the wheels and rotor. From my research multiple years of the gs550 and gs450 wheels will work. The gs wheels come in two designs, one like I used here and one that is more of a star pattern. http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j339/chefsamurai/MikeIphoneDownload31513145_zps226b6fdb.jpg (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/chefsamurai/media/MikeIphoneDownload31513145_zps226b6fdb.jpg.html) There are no differences I know of that would prevent you from using them interchangeably in this conversion. These are the closest to a drop in wheel that I found. I looked into the yamaha xs wheels but rotors and spacing proved to be a hurdle. The gs wheels require only minimal machine work to the rotor. As stated before in previous posts, you need a gs450 rotor no matter the bike you source the wheels from. I accidentally purchased a gs550 slotted rotor before realizing the importance of the solid 450 rotor. You will need to machine down into the slots of the rotor on the gs550 rotor...which obviously isn't going to work :) I took the rotor to a machine shop that used an automotive brake rotor lathe to turn my rotor...so any automotive shop should be able to do this job. I took the savage rotor and the gs rotor and had him match the two. The measurement is 10.25 inches. Does anyone know what the gs rotors are made of? The guy said he had not seen anything where where metal came off the lathe golden like this did. http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j339/chefsamurai/MikeIphoneDownload315130052_zps00b4c7b2.jpg (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/chefsamurai/media/MikeIphoneDownload315130052_zps00b4c7b2.jpg.html) After getting the rotor back home I got it cleaned up and painted. before: http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j339/chefsamurai/MikeIphoneDownload31513062_zpsab62055c.jpg (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/chefsamurai/media/MikeIphoneDownload31513062_zpsab62055c.jpg.html) after: http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j339/chefsamurai/MikeIphoneDownload31513068_zps1f3dc3ab.jpg (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/chefsamurai/media/MikeIphoneDownload31513068_zps1f3dc3ab.jpg.html) After mocking up everything in the front I found that four washers per bolt (.23") worked for spacing the rotor. I am going to make a solid aluminium spacer soon, but for now the spacers will do fine I think. http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j339/chefsamurai/MikeIphoneDownload31513056_zps5b87813c.jpg (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/chefsamurai/media/MikeIphoneDownload31513056_zps5b87813c.jpg.html) http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j339/chefsamurai/MikeIphoneDownload31513057_zps51ba92c6.jpg (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/chefsamurai/media/MikeIphoneDownload31513057_zps51ba92c6.jpg.html) http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j339/chefsamurai/MikeIphoneDownload31513045_zps613221e2.jpg (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/chefsamurai/media/MikeIphoneDownload31513045_zps613221e2.jpg.html) http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j339/chefsamurai/MikeIphoneDownload31513047_zpsc21b7021.jpg (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/chefsamurai/media/MikeIphoneDownload31513047_zpsc21b7021.jpg.html) and the stock axle spacers put me just about dead center in the forks. clutch side: http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j339/chefsamurai/MikeIphoneDownload31513048_zps6d6e2c1a.jpg (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/chefsamurai/media/MikeIphoneDownload31513048_zps6d6e2c1a.jpg.html) brake side: http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j339/chefsamurai/MikeIphoneDownload31513050_zpsfb374697.jpg (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/chefsamurai/media/MikeIphoneDownload31513050_zpsfb374697.jpg.html) After taking off the tires and giving the wheels a cleaning with simple green a scrub pad and a wire brush I wiped them down with acetone and got ready to change their color! Finished: http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j339/chefsamurai/MikeIphoneDownload31513151_zps27327bbe.jpg (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/chefsamurai/media/MikeIphoneDownload31513151_zps27327bbe.jpg.html) I used a low gloss engine enamel rattle can. I found that 1 can was needed for a solid first coat and about 3/4 can did subsequent coats. I mounted the new tires after rehabbing the wheels. I did this with two tire irons and using automotive fuel line split and put on the rim to protect it from the irons. Getting the tires off was actually more difficult than mounting the new but the new tires( mounted with tubes as I was not sure of the "trueness" of the wheel and due to its age wanted to be safer than sorry) were not holding air. Feeling defeated I took them to a trusted mechanic. He inspected the wheels and determined the tubes were not needed. He did not have the correct stem in stock so to get my wheels back faster I went to a local powersports dealer that handles suzuki and gave the wheel specs, was handed the stems, and repeated the wheel specs to be sure I got the right stems. Guess where this is going. Dropped them off for the and he calls back to tell me they will not work. I tell him the story and he says that he is standing there with his Parts Unlimited rep....he will ask him. I hear the conversation after the phone was put down where the rep is heard saying that the parts guys where I went don't know sh*t. The right one were ordered, tires mounted and balanced and here is where I stand $49.00 later. (I originally was going to go with a internal balancing product but I just want to get back on the road. Maybe I will try one of those at some point down the road. ) ready for the bike: http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j339/chefsamurai/photo3_zpsd1d39227.jpg (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/chefsamurai/media/photo3_zpsd1d39227.jpg.html) With all the sweat that went into unmounting and mounting tires...money well spent I think. That is where I am with this, I hope to have the wheels fit today or tomorrow. Part 2 coming soon. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by scubachef on 04/21/13 at 21:26:45 I was able to get into the garage for a little time today and did some mock up with the finished parts to see that everything still was lining up...it didn't as I thought was possible. The mock up with the painted parts needed the rotor spaced only .17" versus the original .23". With my original spacers the rotor was far to the clutch side of the caliper and was badly dragging. For reference i am using pads with about 1500 miles on them. I need to take some material off one of the stock axle spacers as well. I must have mis measured the stock axle spacers originally because I need to take some material off of the clutch side. No big deal, but kicking myself for a sloppy first mock up. Some other info, I switched bolts from a hex head 8.8 bolt to a Allen head 12.9. According to the bolt supplier both are of adequate strength, I chose a black Allen head more for looks than anything else. You can get by with a 30mm but will be a little short on threads. I chose the 35mm as they did not carry anything between 30 and 35. I will have pics up soon, need to get them loaded to photobucket. So this far into the process my major conclusion is that each person attempting this should be prepared to measure, remeasure and adjust for variables. My measurements are not falling in line with measurements I found posted by two other members. So it looks like the spacing and ease of install might not be consistent bike to bike maybe due to the exact year of wheel used or various other details. I will posts more pics and findings as soon as I get back in the garage. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by srinath on 04/22/13 at 07:04:10 You're making me feel bad for abandoning my maxim FE project. That would have given me twin discs too in front. Sheesh ... maybe I should go back to it. But I was getting tired of having the savage without a working FE (it was on it, but I had to finish the brake spacing etc). Anyway I never got within a 100 feet of that rear wheel though. I had a brand new tire on the back, I aint swapping out a wheel with a shiny new tire ... Yea yea I can put it on the maxim wheel, but then I lose all the mount and balance $$$ yea I am that frugal. It will be changed when its bald or loses air ... else hell no. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by scubachef on 04/25/13 at 08:17:07 Well guess you got to get back to it ;) That would be a cool conversion to see! Front end is officially finished :) http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j339/chefsamurai/photo5_zpsf4662712.jpg (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/chefsamurai/media/photo5_zpsf4662712.jpg.html) the measurement from the wheel to the inside of the fork is 2.25" the axle spacer on the clutch side is 1.4' and the spacer on the brake side is stock (the one with the the flared end. Sorry I didn't take a pic, know the actually name....or which side of the bike it was originally on :-/) The rotor is spaced .17" and the caliper is not spaced. http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j339/chefsamurai/photo4_zpsc26b62aa.jpg (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/chefsamurai/media/photo4_zpsc26b62aa.jpg.html) Sorry for the poor quality of this pic! This does not follow measurements from prior members that have done this conversion. My thoughts are that there might be minor variation in the wheels of some of the donor bikes year to year, or possibly that the wheel of a bike that had dual disks up front could be used with either side as the brake side? Maybe this would change the rotor spacing? Just guessing, don't have a dual disk wheel to confirm or deny. I believe if that was the case that it would dramatically affect at least the axle spacing as my wheel has a significant difference in depth side to side in the bearing area for the spacer to sit. My spacers are definitely not equal on each side. I think the difference in rotor spacing could be due to the mil thickness of the paint on the wheels and rotor that I used and the thickness of the rotor itself. I would think the offset would be identical for all the rotors, but the thickness might still require the spacing to be fined tuned. The tire I am using is a 110/90/19 as I commute on the freeway so I went for a bigger tire and more stability. I will see what the handling is like and report back. I know I made a sacrifice there. I will be completing the rear tire soon....since I read that is essentially a drop in I focused on completing the front first. My overall findings thus far are that these wheels are as close to a direct replacement as we have....but each person that does the switch should be prepared to fine tune spacing and use all write ups, including this one, as a guide and less as exactly what they will find in their project. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by scubachef on 04/25/13 at 20:32:21 So....my rear wheel doesn't exactly fit. :-/ I learned some new info today after consulting with thegsresources.com....in order to do this swap on the rear without modification to the pulley hub or replacing it with a GS hub, we need a '79-'82 gs550 wheel. I can't verify that this applies to the 450 wheels, but have been told the second generation of gs550 was '83-'85 and used a different size hub. So for this swap don't use the rear wheel of a gs550 if it is a second gen year. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by srinath on 04/25/13 at 21:00:24 I'll put up pics, but I am getting it off in a few days as soon as I get the savage FE. Anyway the worst thing about the savage is that Idiotic fork offset. That's the only thing that will clear the tank. So no matter what legs we slide into that triple set, the bike will always handle like an overloaded wheel barrow. I made a chopper out of a set of degreed triples. I put dirt bike forks and wheel with the legs flipped left to right ... that result was such a neutral handling bike. I am tempted to do it again sometime on one of my frames. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by Cavi Mike on 04/26/13 at 00:26:15 Is that rotor magnetic? Bike rotors are typically made of 400 series stainless(magnetic) but I've never seen gold chips come off like that before. That's what you see when dry-cutting 300 series(non-magnetic). The really high chromium content is what does it. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by scubachef on 04/26/13 at 13:37:23 Rotor is not magnetic. My initial guess was that it may have to do with heat. You see a straw coloration on metals during some welding processes and I thought maybe that could account for the color. The shavings almost looked like bronze laying on the floor. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by Cavi Mike on 05/01/13 at 05:55:02 Yup, 300 series stainless steel then. Didn't know they made brake rotors out of that. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by scubachef on 05/01/13 at 07:42:23 Thanks Cavi Mike for the clarification. Update: I have a hub coming (with free 47th sprocket....chain conversion has begun :)) I am going to be in Mexico for next next week and a half, so in about two weeks I should be able to post a completed swap and have a usable bike back. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by srinath on 05/04/13 at 19:30:55 1436213E1A3E3C32570 wrote:
My savage rotor is plenty magnetic. I dunno what rotor is not. Cos the MZ, GS, GSXR, eliminator, maxim and every other one I had was pretty magnetic. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by srinath on 05/08/13 at 06:20:57 One other thing I just have had the ability to measure - and I better measure and picture it for my own memory too ... Putting a maxim front end on a savage increases rake by about 5 degrees. Its extra length ... the bike isn't leaned over excessively jus with that, it is more than stock but not crazy more. The better guage is the extra wheelbase ... especially your foot to front tire clearance. The bad thing I'd think is that the bike will handle even worse. The triple clamp offset is the same as we are using the stock triples. Extra wheel base and the extra rake will be a disaster^2. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by scubachef on 05/11/13 at 13:44:46 Got back from Mexico and the hub I ordered was waiting or me....only it is the same dimensions as the stock savage hub ;D I asked the seller to verify the year and he assured me it was from an '85 550l. So it looks like the problem must be that the wheel is not as it was described. Machining the two to mate is the new plan. I'm going to remove half the material from the OD of the hub and half from the ID of the wheel. So where I'm at is that you should really verify the years of the gs parts used since it seems there is more variation than previously thought. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by srinath on 05/11/13 at 22:01:15 As far as I knew, suzuki did not change parts mid year without issuing a recall. Like the 86 savage had a air intake that was swapped out in 87, but it was done as a recall. You may have some mish mosh cos a lot of suzuki parts fit each other - like on a GS500 bandit 400 wheels, bandit 600, katana 600 etc etc fit, sv 650 fits with a bearing swap etc etc. Your seller may have pulled em off the bike and labelled them with the bike he pulled it off, but that dont mean its the original for that bike/year. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by scubachef on 05/12/13 at 18:02:28 So it looks like this conversion is going to stay half done for now. Before moving forward with any more work I decided to measure everything to verify if I fixed the pulley hub situation it wood be smooth sailing from there. It won't be >:( The brake side will not work. The wheel opening is a little more than 1 inch larger than the savage and so my brake assembly is much smaller than whatever the bike the wheel came from had. So I am stopping for now until I can do more research on gs wheels and what years had what dimensions. And then attack at a later date. I need to get moving on my car project so the bike is being tabled for the foreseeable future. |
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Title: Re: Front Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by OldSport on 06/03/13 at 09:00:14 I bought a set of 83 GS450T wheels on ebay. The specs on the bike listed the wheels as 18" wheels. My fault that I didn't question the seller on the size of the wheels. When they arrived they were 19" front and 17" rear. The brake side fits perfectly on the rear but the drive is different. I will have to convert to a chain drive if I use them but I am still undecided. The front will be a similar conversion to what you did. |
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Title: Re: Front Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by scubachef on 06/07/13 at 18:55:10 Yeah, after doing some research on my own and asking around on the gs forum there is more to getting this swap to work than I previously expected. I will get the rear to work for my bike because now it is a challenge.....but in hindsight, I would have stuck with the spokes. |
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Title: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by scubachef on 02/27/14 at 11:21:39 This project is still alive. I know I have left it unfinished up till now. Life in the way big time, but now I am back on the bike and finished up the wheel conversion. I still don't know what bike my rear wheel came from..the sprocket hub is from an '85 GS650E and the drum assembly is from a '78 GS550L. But it is done so it is what it is and I will no longer buy off ebay without confirming measurements. Lesson learned. I laid out the front wheel conversion so here is the rear. 16X2.75 GS rim Tubeless 140.90.16 Shinko Tourmaster 230 tire http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j339/chefsamurai/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps6786fcae.jpg (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/chefsamurai/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps6786fcae.jpg.html) To fit the tire I had to grind the bead on the inside of the swingarm and repaint but no cutting was necessary. I checked the gaps rode a test run to make sure it was all good and then took it to work yesterday. At 80 mph I have no rubbing issues so good to go. The spacers are the stock spacers without modification but only one is in the stock location. If your wheel fits the stock savage parts then it looks like you are good to go, but I am not using anything stock but the belt drive pulley so there was some measurement and head scratching until I got the correct placement and now the belt lined up perfectly and the wheel is nicely centered. I had to fire up the ghetto machine shop to turn down the shoulder on the spacer inside the drive hub. http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j339/chefsamurai/IMG_2272_zpsf56cdf93.jpg (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/chefsamurai/media/IMG_2272_zpsf56cdf93.jpg.html) The belt tension is correct which I was worried about. I thought I might have to do the chain since clearance at the front with the larger tire was a concern but I have the belt tensioned and could even go forward a touch without issue. http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j339/chefsamurai/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps3f69c6ca.jpg (http://s1080.photobucket.com/user/chefsamurai/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps3f69c6ca.jpg.html) So all and all I hope this shows the availability of a much larger OD on the rear tire while retaining the belt and without cutting the swinger. The OD of the front and rear tires is much closer so the stance is highly improved IMHO. After riding for two days I definitely notice a positive difference in the bike and am happy that I got this done. |
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Title: Re: Front Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by Detuned on 03/22/14 at 06:42:58 off hand, would you know the diameter of the rotor and how big of a offset it has? |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by scubachef on 03/23/14 at 10:59:20 10.25" is the OD of the rotor. Not sure why the offset is, I would have to measure when I get home. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by uigiroux on 04/07/14 at 14:57:58 I have a 07 Savage and want to do this mod. So after reading this I'm a bit confused as to which parts I need exactly besides bolts and spacers. What year and make wheels do I need and the same for the hubs etc... I already have a chain conversion with a 17/43 if that matters. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by scubachef on 04/07/14 at 18:05:38 My journey was rough because my rear tire was not from the bike the seller described. To use your current brakes and drive hub you will need: -Wheels from a GS 550 or GS450 -years ranging from 82-85. The 450's came with rear 17" rims, but they are 2.15 so basically a 120 is the fattest tire you can run. -GS450 rotor. A 550 rotor will not work as it is vented. The rotor needs to be turned down to match the Savage rotor. 10.25" OD Any automotive shop can do this on their brake lathe...that was how mine was done. -Spacers for the rotor. Mine is spaced .24" but you may need to play with it. You will be able to modify the stock spacers front and back and will not need to purchase additional axle spacers. Hope that is more clear and concise. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by uigiroux on 04/13/14 at 14:55:43 48584E595A58535E5D3B0 wrote:
I've been looking at a lot of wheels online and the rear doesn't seem difficult to find the right one, but most of the front wheels have a width of 1.85in, but they're still running or stock 100/90/19 tires, so would that work or is this a matter of the year being wrong. Coincidently enough, I found a GS550L wheel (year wasn't specified) on eBay and it already has a GS450 rotor on it and it comes with a good tire. The width wasn't specified, but if it works in getting it, only asking like $30 for it! Two birds with one stone... hopefully. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by uigiroux on 04/13/14 at 14:58:48 And to clarify, I NEED to have a 79-82 rear for a drop in replacement, or if other things needed? |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by scubachef on 04/13/14 at 19:08:55 What I ended up doing to finish this up was just shoot a quick message to the seller asking for ID measurements of the pulley and brake sides of the wheel. It seems to me that a cast wheel that is 16x2.50 seem to all be the same. I wanted a 2.75 to get the fattest tire I could and that seemed to be where the rub was. For the front, I contacted Shinko which was the tire I chose and spoke to them about tire fitment. It is safe to mount a 100/90/19 to a 1.85 front and a 110/90/19 to a 2.15 but those should be considered the safety limit. It presents an issue with crowning the tire, but is not a safety thing. My advice is just ask a quick measurement from the seller to get the right wheels. Without fitment issues of the brake and pulley you literally can do this swap in two hours. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by elricfate on 06/11/18 at 07:51:25 Has anyone else done this, recently, with an updated parts list? |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by TeamMarlony on 04/03/19 at 09:22:41 I went through this recently and wanted to give a list of the required parts and years that I know will work. I only looked at the GS550L rear wheels. 1981 and 1982 will NOT work. The drum is too large and the sprocket bolt pattern diameter is too small. I recieved a 1983 GS550L wheel and it worked perfectly. 1983 through 1986 all have the exact same sizes according to oem website. Check measurements! I list the two important ones later. What you need to buy is the wheel with the rubber sprocket bumpers (shock absorbers) in place. You will also need the sprocket hub (retainer drum). This is the part that the sprocket bolts on to and fits into the bumpers. The retainers(part 12) measured to be the same as the S40 so you may not need them. The bolts in the sprocket are different than the S40 so you need these too. Everything in parentheses above is what the oem website calls them: https://www.suzukipartshouse.com/oemparts/a/suz/50d3f871f8700230d8b4cf0c/rear-wheel So you will use the drum brake, spacers, axle rod, pulley, and left end bolt and washer from the S40. The sprocket hub from the GS550L will be bolted with GS550L bolts to the S40 pulley. Everything goes back on the bike the same way it came off. There are probably other wheels that work, but I can confirm this one. Make sure when buying the wheel you check that the drum brake reads 160.7mm as max size and the bolt diameter on the sprocket is 100mm. Also, make sure the bearings are still all good or buy new ones. I know there are experts who know a TON more about this than me, but feel free to ask me any questions. I am attaching a pic of the bike with the wheel. Thanks. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by philthymike on 06/19/19 at 15:10:37 So the drum, sprocket part # 8 is necessary? The equivalent S40 part won't fit here? |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by verslagen1 on 06/19/19 at 22:24:32 7F6766637B67766266646A0F0 wrote:
I used all savage parts to fit the gs wheel in the bike. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by TeamMarlony on 06/20/19 at 07:48:56 I tried to use the hub from the S40 and it fit pretty well. The bumpers were tighter with the gs550 hub so I used it. They both have the same bolt pattern for the pulley and seem to be the same width to fit within the swing arm. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by philthymike on 06/20/19 at 13:52:10 I'm glad to hear that since I ordered all LS650 parts for both sides. The cast wheels are giong in for powdering Saturday if I can get the bearings out in time. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by zipidachimp on 07/24/19 at 11:16:35 I started following this series of mods thinking that the object was getting 'tubeless tires'. Am I mistaken? Elsewhere I've learned that these wheels were intended to be run with tubes. Am I mising something? Why go to all this trouble if you still end up with tubes? Dazed and confused !!! >:( |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by TeamMarlony on 07/24/19 at 11:22:33 If you put a 1983 to 1985 gs550L wheel on the rear, it will run tubeless. The picture of the teal 2013 S40 on the last page is mine. The front wheel is stock so it has a tube, but the rear mag wheel is tubeless. I listed out all the parts required for the rear wheel conversation. The front wheel is more complicated so I did not do that one. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by philthymike on 07/24/19 at 14:00:34 The 83 GS550 LD wheels have the word tubeless cast into them. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by zipidachimp on 07/24/19 at 14:52:31 Ok, thanks! I was looking for '80 to '82. If '83 is indeed tubeless, that's where I'll go. A tubeless front would be my nirvana, as I have an irrational fear of a tube blowout, in spite of all the road bikes across planet earth using tubed front tires! Cheers! 8-) |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by zipidachimp on 07/25/19 at 00:22:18 I found a couple of '83 rears on e-pay and the tubeless valve stem is pictured. Will carry on. Cheers! 8-) |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by philthymike on 07/26/19 at 15:56:58 Cheers! Just a FYI: a 1981 GS450 19" front wheel can mount two rotors. Just in case I don't like how my bike handles with a 16" wheel which came with the pair I bought last month. Plus I needed the 450 solid rotor. I obtained this 19" wheel for $40. I pried off the plastic cover on the hub and found this. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by philthymike on 07/26/19 at 15:58:24 Then I grabbed the rotor from the 16" wheel and what do you know... |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by philthymike on 07/26/19 at 15:59:45 Spacing is the same on both sides according to my eyeballing. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by philthymike on 07/26/19 at 16:14:38 So I just looked at my forks. The caliper mount is only slightly off center of the tube. Correct me if I'm not thinking straight (2 shots of whiskey) but it looks to me that with a left fork assembly on the right side and some cleverly measured spacers you can rig up a dual brakes setup. Am I wrong? |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by badwolf on 07/26/19 at 17:16:15 If you can make the brackets, have clearnce between the tubes, get a Y hose that will fit, and the will to make it work, maybe.... Or you could get a dual piston caliper from a SV650 (left side) and make just one bracket using the slotted disc (full size) and have a awesome single disc set-up. That is what I have on mine and it is far better than the stock front brake. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by philthymike on 07/26/19 at 18:37:08 I do have the will to make it work. After countless near life-ending emergency stops it is my mission to make this bike safer. Whether I have the technical ability remains to be tested. I'd like to learn about your brake setup. Sounds nice.... |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by badwolf on 07/26/19 at 19:40:07 About a year and a half ago Dave came up with the trick. He sent a caliper and bracket to fit a stock disc to MMRanch. I picked up on it and thought as long as I am making a bracket, why not use the bigger uncut disc? I taped a piece of 14 gauge inslated electric wire to the outside of the disc to set-up the clearance, set the caliper where I wanted it and made a cardboard pattern. When I was happy with that I copied it onto 3/16'' steel, bolted it all together, took off the wire and it worked the first try! I am very happy with the improvment in braking power. And I only have about $80 in it. A used caliper from e-bay, vented disc that came with the wheel, stock master cylnder and hose. When I first put on the 450's wheel I had to find a solid disc and it cost $95 to turn it down to stock dia. (that disc is on MMRanch's bike now) Often guys get caught-up in HP to ''improve'' their bike, never thinking about brake upgrades to slow back down. A old Waylon Jennings song talks about his first pistol ''a cap & ball Colt, shoots as fast as lightning, but it loads a mite slow, it can get you into trouble but it can't get you out'' I live in S.Fla and better brakes can help get me out of trouble as much as a quick throttle. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by philthymike on 07/26/19 at 20:12:43 Dude that's awesome! I love to hear about when people mock stuff up with wire and cardboard and translate it into actual working parts. I'm doing alot of that kinda thing right now rebuilding the kitchen in my old ladies house. One reason I keep pushing bike work back too. It's interesting that such a small difference in brake rotor diameter works out to a big improvement in stopping power. I haven't brought my GS rotor to be cut yet. Maybe I'll see about keeping it as is like you did. Funny thing. One of my neighbors bought an 02 Savage recently. He usually rides a Ninja. He loves the Savage. Tonight we went riding after swapping bike's and it was pretty gratifying to see I couldn't hang with my own bike riding his stock bike. It wasn't happening. My Thumpy outran me in straight acceleration and through the turns to an embarrassing degree. But it made me think of all those near death experiences where I was going too fast for the brakes to do anything helpful fast enough. This has to be addressed. Seriously. I'm going to look further into the dual brakes possibility. Failing that another solution. Then once that's fixed I will make the bike faster ;) |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by badwolf on 07/26/19 at 20:20:34 The dual piston caliper is the biggest boost in power, the bigger disc is just iceing. And the holes tell other Savage riders that 'something's' different. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by Dave on 07/29/19 at 04:14:08 6C6E7D637D7F676E667D0F0 wrote:
The caliper I used is from a Suzuki SV650. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1506653047/11#11 If you are interested in this you should print a copy.......when Tinypic stops working my posts are going to become meaningless. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by ohiomoto on 07/29/19 at 09:59:18 627A7B7E667A6B7F7B7977120 wrote:
Does yours say "tubeless" anywhere on there? I have an 81 450E in the garage and am interested in using the wheels on a 650 build. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by badwolf on 07/29/19 at 11:05:40 Suzuki used those wheels from the late 70's thru the mid 80's, both tubeless and tube type, in 1.85 & 2.15 widths. 450's up to 1000's. The best one to find is a 19 x 2.15 tubeless and 1 or 2 rotors with it. If you use a rotor (disc) that is vented you should switch to the dual piston caliper from a SZ650. (best option, but you will need to make a bracket ) If you want to use the stock caliper and not make a bracket, you will need to have a solid rotor turned down by a shop ($$) and end up with the same weak brake as you started with. The bracket is not too hard to make (see my post above) and the results are well worth it. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by philthymike on 07/29/19 at 12:23:56 That's an excellent solution. |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by zipidachimp on 08/12/19 at 16:23:39 Guys, I bought the rear wheel and new bearings. What is the trick to get the old bearings out without cracking the casting? :-? :-? :-? Cheers! 8-) |
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Title: Re: Cast Wheel Conversion with Pics Post by philthymike on 08/19/19 at 14:16:05 332039202D282A21202439490 wrote:
You can weld a piece of metal to the bearing and use that to pull the bearing out while it's still hot. Or you can heat up the hub area with a heat gun or torch and peck away at the bearing from the opposite side with a hammer and a nailset or drift. I've done both ways and the welding way is much much faster. Problem was I had to have someone else do the weld since I don't have welding gear. |
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