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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Bike not running right after rebuild. Ideas?
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Message started by 87 savage on 04/19/13 at 18:40:08

Title: Bike not running right after rebuild. Ideas?
Post by 87 savage on 04/19/13 at 18:40:08

Ok lets see who can figure out what I messed up!
First let me explain the changes I have made to the bike:
Ok, so I bought a 96 engine for my 87 savage. I really wanted the five speed. Also my 87 was clunking hard when I shut it down so I wanted a post 95 engine so it would have the torque limiter assembly in the starter idle gear. (Turns out on my 87 the one way starter clutch was froze up and siezed to the hub of the starter driven gear! But that's another story) However, it would not be just an easy swap out. The 96 engine's right crank half had a hairline crack in the bottom and leaked enough so that I couldn't run it as is. Therefore I needed to completly disassemble both engines so I could install the right crankcase half from my 87 engine on the 96 engine.
I used Hondabond HT to seal the two crank halves and put in new gaskets and cleaned everything good while it was apart. Also I needed to swap Magneto rotors to retain my stock 87 ignition. Thanks to forum member Dave I was able to borrow his rotor puller tool and saved about $50! After the engine was back together it was time for the Dyna muffler swap I've been wanting to do. Thanks to Serowbots awesome post on Dyna mufflers it sure makes the swap easier to tackle. I ended up getting a 10 degree offset adapter pipe made up at my local exhaust shop to connect the header to the muffler.
Next I had to swap carburetors. When I got the 87 savage, it had sat in a barn in New Hampshire for ten years and the carb was a mess. The pilot screw was froze and the the slot on the top of the screw was stripped. The float and bowl were covered in green slime and just reeked. So to save time getting the bike on the road I picked up a carb on ebay and have run that up until now. That being said, I wanted to put the stock carb back in the bike because it came stock with a 155 main jet which I figured would be better with the Dyna muffler. Also the one I have been running is a California model and the pilot air jets are different so I wanted to get back to the original carburetor. I ended up drilling a small hole in the pilot screw and using an easy out to back it out. then I thouroughly cleaned and reassembled the carb.
Now let me explain the way the bike ran when I finally got it all back together.
Fully charged newer AGM battery.
Fresh gas
Clean plug with good spark

Choked it and hit the starter button, It fired immediately, but was running roughly. It absolutely would not idle, but, I could keep it running by constantly working the throttle. Every time I tried to get an idle it stalled and backfired loudly. When it would run it was backfiring, and misfiring and very rough. The closest I could get to an idle was about 1700-1800rpms and very very rough and all over the place. If I opened it up it would rev up and ran slightly better, but, still didn't feel right. I had a fan on it the whole time I was working on it running to keep from overheating. Clue: It ran as though it were lean trying to die and backfiring, but, it was puffing black smoke!
Now for total disclosure, I have found the problem!
Let's hear some guesses and ideas. You guys are always so good at helping newbs with their bike issues that when I finally figured out what I had done my first thought was whether any of the forum members will be able to diagnose by reading my description. Can't wait to read replies. :)

Title: Re: Bike not running right after rebuild. Ideas?
Post by rfw2003 on 04/19/13 at 19:15:15

Sounds like you mixed up which rotor was which and put the newer one back on instead of the 87's so the ignition timing was off.

R.F.

Title: Re: Bike not running right after rebuild. Ideas?
Post by Serowbot on 04/19/13 at 21:49:44

I was gonna' guess timing, too...
I guess there's a lot of options,... as deep as you went,... but, I'd start with timing...

Glad you got it figured out,... anyway... :)...

...I have a sneaking suspicion,... this is a trick question... :-?...

Title: Re: Bike not running right after rebuild. Ideas?
Post by verslagen1 on 04/19/13 at 22:10:24

Stock petcock... yeah that's it. ;D

wrong idle mixture screw or forgot to adjust.

Title: Re: Bike not running right after rebuild. Ideas?
Post by Oldfeller on 04/20/13 at 02:06:03

Hmmmm .... Everything is a joke now, isn't it.

Let's play guessing games about my torn apart & put back together with mixed parts from across the years engine.

And I already know what's really wrong with it, let's see what you can guess.

No thanks --- :P

Title: Re: Bike not running right after rebuild. Ideas?
Post by apache snow on 04/20/13 at 06:00:52

Lighten up Frances :) life is short, seize the day.

Title: Re: Bike not running right after rebuild. Ideas?
Post by 87 savage on 04/20/13 at 07:19:11

2D0E0604070E0E0710620 wrote:

Aw come on Oldfeller! Your spoiling the fun :'( Actually it was you who inspired me to produce this post. Well kinda, I spent an hour trying to find the actual post but I can't. Anyway in this post I mentioned to you that I would have to split my crankcase to fix my leak. You replied that when I made the repair to take pictures so I could post it on the forum. Well I did take pictures but I don't have an external site to upload them to and unless I missed something, I can only include 1 photo with a post. So I decided to present it the way I did. Besides, I really do love reading other folks interpretations of bike issues. Ironically, I was hoping you would reply. Gotta admit you caught me off guard, maybe this wasn't the right way for me to present the repair? Anyway, I hope you will reconsider and take a shot at it...you know you want to. :)
I will reveal later today ok OF?

Title: Re: Bike not running right after rebuild. Ideas?
Post by 87 savage on 04/20/13 at 07:24:20

rtf2003: Nope, used the correct rotor

Serow: Nope not timing (seat looks great by the way)

Verslagen: Nope, but I did forget something!

Title: Re: Bike not running right after rebuild. Ideas?
Post by Serowbot on 04/20/13 at 08:16:29

...forgot to connect the vac line?... ;D...

Title: Re: Bike not running right after rebuild. Ideas?
Post by 87 savage on 04/20/13 at 08:26:04

4C5A4D50485D504B3F0 wrote:

...forgot to connect the vac line?... ;D...

Nope! Although I've done that a couple times after pulling the tank. It was running much worse than the vac line off would produce.

Title: Re: Bike not running right after rebuild. Ideas?
Post by raydawg on 04/20/13 at 08:58:26

You forgot to put water in the radiator? You got the throttle and clutch cable reversed? You put beer in the fuel tank and drank the gas instead?

What did i win? ;D

You forgot the pilot screw?

Title: Re: Bike not running right after rebuild. Ideas?
Post by docwho on 04/20/13 at 09:02:04

forgot the header seal.

Title: Re: Bike not running right after rebuild. Ideas?
Post by apache snow on 04/20/13 at 09:11:34

How about a hint. Its something to do with the carb I'll bet.

Title: Re: Bike not running right after rebuild. Ideas?
Post by Serowbot on 04/20/13 at 09:58:52

... forgot to air up the tires?... :-?...

Title: Re: Bike not running right after rebuild. Ideas?
Post by Dave on 04/20/13 at 10:00:41

You forgot to put fuel in the tank?

Title: Re: Bike not running right after rebuild. Ideas?
Post by gdrseeker on 04/20/13 at 10:13:10

No main jet in the carb?

Title: Re: Bike not running right after rebuild. Ideas?
Post by verslagen1 on 04/20/13 at 10:18:14

you forgot the air filter?

Title: Re: Bike not running right after rebuild. Ideas?
Post by 87 savage on 04/20/13 at 11:56:34

Raydawg: forgot water in the radiator? Now that's funny ;D ;D

docwho: nope

apache snow: your right about the carb. Ok a hint... jdrseeker is getting real warm. I forgot to put a part back in the carb.

Oldfeller: come on take a guess. ::)

Title: Re: Bike not running right after rebuild. Ideas?
Post by docwho on 04/20/13 at 12:18:28

forgot the spring on tev .

Title: Re: Bike not running right after rebuild. Ideas?
Post by paulmarshall on 04/20/13 at 12:21:32

Forgot the pilot mixture screw?

Title: Re: Bike not running right after rebuild. Ideas?
Post by 87 savage on 04/20/13 at 12:37:32

434844504F48270 wrote:

forgot the spring on tev .

Ding ding ding, and the winner is.......docwho!!! :D

Took me a while to figure it out. after trying the pilot idle screw in every conceivable position I finally resigned myself to pulling the carb to take it apart again. After all, I figured since it had been in storage for ten plus years there could be some stubborn gunk caught in the pilot/idle circuit. When I pulled the cover of the TEV off it hit me like a ton of bricks. The nice clean spring that seemed to just show up on my work bench did have a home! Mystery solved, nice job doc. Thanks to everyone that took a shot at it. :)

Title: Re: Bike not running right after rebuild. Ideas?
Post by paulmarshall on 04/20/13 at 12:41:13

87 Savage can you get more pics of what you did. I may be splitting a 400 soon.

Title: Re: Bike not running right after rebuild. Ideas?
Post by apache snow on 04/20/13 at 14:21:05

Now that was fun and did not hurt anyone. :)

Title: Re: Bike not running right after rebuild. Ideas?
Post by 87 savage on 04/20/13 at 15:12:33

2736223B3A3625243F363B3B570 wrote:

87 Savage can you get more pics of what you did. I may be splitting a 400 soon.

Sure paul. Pm me with your email and I will send you what I took for pictures.

Title: Re: Bike not running right after rebuild. Ideas?
Post by paulmarshall on 04/20/13 at 15:23:25

PM sent thanks

Title: Re: Bike not running right after rebuild. Ideas?
Post by Oldfeller on 04/20/13 at 20:26:04

Now if you are seriously trying to post the pictorial steps of a "split the cases" rebuild, the place to do that is in Tech Section. Start a thread, post a first post with your first step, new post for second step, etc. That would be very useful.

That would be sensible and completely appropriate for that section and that serious type of topic.

The semi-joking or teasing stuff isn't wrong or bad per se, it just belongs in the Cafe.

What is especially "wrong" in doing it in RSD is that is where newbies will read the nonsense joky responses folks are firing off and perhaps act on them seriously because the stuff WAS posted in RDS "where only serious factual stuff goes".

Remember, when your joke gets cold and old, a year or two from now these RSD separate posts are still getting pulled up by SEARCH as separate informational chicklets and are being treated seriously by people who don't know any better.

Title: Re: Bike not running right after rebuild. Ideas?
Post by 87 savage on 04/21/13 at 06:27:52

1B3830323138383126540 wrote:

Oldfeller, you know, I never looked at it that way. That is a valid point. I myself frequently browse "other" forums for answers to everything from auto repair ideas to gardening tips etc... I had considered PMing one of the moderators for the appropriate place to post it, but since it was a question I thought RSD, but, you're right RSD is for serious questions. Point taken, and thanks for your input.