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Message started by JRLeathercraft on 03/28/13 at 19:17:45

Title: Head gasket
Post by JRLeathercraft on 03/28/13 at 19:17:45

Hi
Dealer says I have a leak at the head
Gasket.

I think they are correct.

I ordered the gasket.

How big of a job is this?

Jay

Title: Re: Head gasket
Post by Serowbot on 03/28/13 at 19:34:12

Head gasket is a big job... head gasket problems are rare...
It is more likely a leaky head plug,... which is way easier and cheaper to fix...

Can you cancel your gasket order?... until we find out?...

Title: Re: Head gasket
Post by JRLeathercraft on 03/28/13 at 19:38:16

I can probably pay a restock fee.

What is a head plug?

Thank you. Jay

Title: Re: Head gasket
Post by Serowbot on 03/28/13 at 19:43:24

Read here... ;)...
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1099227295

Title: Re: Head gasket
Post by SALB on 03/28/13 at 20:41:17

Pleeeeese tell me this isn't the same dealer that "fixed" your rear brake. :-[

Title: Re: Head gasket
Post by verslagen1 on 03/28/13 at 20:46:54

[quote author=21222135232B25400 link=1364523465/0#4 date=1364528477]Pleeeeese tell me this isn't the same dealer that "fixed" your rear brake. :-[/quote]
SNAP!!!

ooooh... that one will leave a mark. :o

Title: Re: Head gasket
Post by JRLeathercraft on 03/28/13 at 21:02:04

Yes, I'm beginning to see a pattern here.

Title: Re: Head gasket
Post by RidgeRunner13 on 03/28/13 at 21:28:27

NO ONE KNOWS MORE ABOUT THE LS650 THAN THE MEMBERS ON THIS FORUM.
WE ARE THE ONES WHO FIND THE REAL PROBLEMS & COME UP WITH FIXES THAT WORK.
THE DEALERS DON'T WORK ON ENOUGH OF THESE TO BE FAMILIAR WITH THEIR PARTICULAR ISSUES.

BOTTM LINE: ALWAYS COME HERE FIRST!!! THEN IF YOU HAVE TO USE A DEALER, YOU WILL BE BETTER INFORMED THAN HE IS!

DON'T TRUST DEALERSHIPS TO KNOW HOW TO REPAIR THIS BIKE, THEY DON'T!!!!!

AND YES, I'M SHOUTING BECAUSE EVERYONE WITH AN LS650 NEEDS TO HEAR IT!!!! THIS HAPPENS TOO MANY TIMES & WE USUALLY ONLY HEAR ABOUT AFTER THE DEALER HAS GOT YOUR MONEY FOR SOMETHING YOU DIDN'T NEED!!!!!! 8-)

Title: Re: Head gasket
Post by Serowbot on 03/28/13 at 22:31:06

Ridge speaks the truth... loudly... ;D...
... and that's not even a dig against dealers...
If I were a dealership manager,... the Savage is the bike I'd turn over to the less experienced mechanics...
Motorcycle mechanic's, really is rocket science nowadays...
...it's only reasonable to give the Savage repair to the new guy...
That's just smart management...
We are the victims of it,... but, on the good side... this bike is a beginners DIY dream...
;)...

Title: Re: Head gasket
Post by ToesNose on 03/29/13 at 04:16:10

JR snap some pics and show us where she's leaking from ;)

Title: Re: Head gasket
Post by Dave on 03/29/13 at 04:56:29

If you ordered the head gasket from the dealer that gave you the bad advice.....maybe they are responsible for eating the restocking fee?

Have them order you a head plug instead.

Title: Re: Head gasket
Post by WD on 03/29/13 at 06:37:06

If it just has a piddly little oil leak, it's the head plug. Mine has leaked for 15 years. Total accumulation on the engine? Couple tablespoons to 1/4 cup range. In 15 years.

If you're hearing an odd hissing in the upper part of the engine, tappet covers, intake boot, loose spark plug, very slim chance it's the head gasket.

Normally, if you lose the head gasket on a Savage, the engine falls flat on its face. You're more likely to lose the timing chain plunger than the head gasket, and if you didn't hear a big crunch when the valves and piston made contact and destroyed the engine... ::)

Title: Re: Head gasket
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/29/13 at 07:24:38

Dude, if you have a head gasket leak, you will be, I think the first, maybe second.. How many have come here SAYing they have a head gasket leak?
Ohh,, no fewer than 50 Id guess Ive seen. Its the plug. Its a rubber plug,,
& if you take that bike to that dealer for engine work & it comes back dead, I wont even feel bad for ya,, HOw many engines ruined in the last 5 years? Is it 3? Or just 2? They put oil filters in BAKKERDS,, at Suzuki dealerships,, & your guy, so far, is batting a Biggo Zero.. HE said Head Gasket,, it HIS restock fee, not yours.,

Title: Re: Head gasket
Post by Cavi Mike on 03/29/13 at 08:52:38

Yeah man, you gotta come around here more often. Stop bringing that thing to the dealer. People don't call them "stealerships" for nothing.

Title: Re: Head gasket
Post by JRLeathercraft on 03/29/13 at 09:18:26

You guys are right.

I brought it over to the service manager and he doesn't think it's the head gasket.

Next week, he said he'd look at it himself for no charge.

Thanks for all your help.

I'll get some pix put up.

Title: Re: Head gasket
Post by JRLeathercraft on 03/29/13 at 09:39:38

Pix 1

Title: Re: Head gasket
Post by JRLeathercraft on 03/29/13 at 09:40:45

Pix 2

Title: Re: Head gasket
Post by JRLeathercraft on 03/29/13 at 09:41:27

Pix 3

Title: Re: Head gasket
Post by JRLeathercraft on 03/29/13 at 09:42:56

FYI the red wire goes to the battery, it is for an add on cigarette lighter holder to plug in a GPS

Title: Re: Head gasket
Post by verslagen1 on 03/29/13 at 09:48:32

oil on top of the cover (around the valve inspection ports)
can be bad seals on those ports or loose cover bolts.
and there's a few with sealing washers.

oil by the header, just to the left of the header is a hole, look in there.
if you see fresh oil all the time, there's your leak, and it'll run out the back and over to sparky.

there's 2 nuts below the head, oil there can be bad head gasket but retorque those nuts, they don't stay tight.

suggest you clean those areas thoroughly and check again.

Title: Re: Head gasket
Post by JRLeathercraft on 03/29/13 at 09:51:49

6A796E6F707D7B79722D1C0 wrote:

oil on top of the cover (around the valve inspection ports)g
can be bad seals on those ports or loose cover bolts.
and there's a few with sealing washers.

oil by the header, just to the left of the header is a hole, look in there.
if you see fresh oil all the time, there's your leak, and it'll run out the back and over to sparky.

there's 2 nuts below the head, oil there can be bad head gasket but retorque those nuts, they don't stay tight.

suggest you clean those areas thoroughly and check again.

Yes, there is oil at the spark plug but I don't understand anything else you have described.

Jay

Title: Re: Head gasket
Post by Steve H on 03/29/13 at 11:05:31

Given that the pictures are all of the top end of the head, could JR possibly be confusing the top cover with the head? I only saw one pic that was close to the head gasket.

I've not ever had a head gasket problem on a motorcycle. But, wouldn't the leakage be much more around the gasket than up top?

Title: Re: Head gasket
Post by oldNslow on 03/29/13 at 12:08:43

Question for the experts 'cause I'm just learning my way around these bike also and don't really know. Would a head gasket leak actually cause an external oil leak? Not just a damp or sooty lookin' spot but liquid oil running out.

All of the bad head gaskets I've encountered were on liquid cooled engines, and the external leaks ( if there even was an external leak) were always coolant, not oil.

Symptoms were mostly poor performance - lack of power,missfiring cylinder,poor compression in the affected cylinder - or the coolant mysteriously disappearing.

Or will Savages actually spew out oil?

And,yeah, I also think the guy at the dealer booted this one.

Title: Re: Head gasket
Post by WD on 03/29/13 at 12:15:24

Look next to the exhaust pipe where it exits the head. There is a passage that if it is oily indicates the notorious "plug cap leak".

The tappet covers (ovals with 2 bolts in them) may or may not have intact seals. Or dried out seals. I think they are rubber ring type, has been so long since I pulled a cover I honestly don't remember.

Look around the underside of the cylinder head, find the 2 nuts, and retorque them. These engines tend to shake fasteners loose.

Head gasket failure on a Savage generally means somebody screwed up after working on the engine. Like not following torque specs.

Title: Re: Head gasket
Post by Digger on 03/30/13 at 20:56:53

1201450 wrote:

....The tappet covers (ovals with 2 bolts in them) may or may not have intact seals. Or dried out seals. I think they are rubber ring type, has been so long since I pulled a cover I honestly don't remember.....

Yep, I can verify that they are o-ring type seals.

Title: Re: Head gasket
Post by Dave on 04/01/13 at 12:39:26

JR.....

The oval covers for the valve adjustment are held on by two bolts with 10mm hex heads, and the covers have rubber 0-rings that fit in grooves. The 0-rings can get hard and might not be sealing well.

Can you tell if the oil is weeping out from these oval covers? If they do, just order some new O-rings and replace them.

Title: Re: Head gasket
Post by JRLeathercraft on 04/01/13 at 14:29:49

To be honest, I don't see alot of weeping anywhere.

My plan is to pull of the tank and those covers and do a good cleaning to see what happend.

Thank you ,

Jay

Title: Valve cover gasket
Post by JRLeathercraft on 04/04/13 at 09:12:47

Hello,

I am told by the dealer that indeed my head gasket is NOT bad, but my valve cover gasket is leaking.

So, anyone do this? Anyone know where this might be found in the clymer?

Thanks,
Jay

Title: Re: Valve cover gasket
Post by Serowbot on 04/04/13 at 09:16:07

Your "valve covers",.. are the 2 caps front and rear, that cover the valve adjusters... they have o-rings seals, not gaskets....
The head cover,... doesn't have a gasket...

You seriously need a new mechanic... :-?...

Title: Re: Valve cover gasket
Post by JRLeathercraft on 04/04/13 at 09:18:39

3A2C3B263E2B263D490 wrote:

Wow, I think you are right! Ha!
I think I'm done talking to those people.

Thanks for the help

Title: Re: Valve cover gasket
Post by Serowbot on 04/04/13 at 09:24:37

Chances are this is what you need... it's a $10.00 plug cap,... and it's under the head cover... just resealing the head cover won't fix it... you need a new plug...
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1099227295

... if you have no other option,.. just print out the How-to page here... and take it to the mechanic...
(they just don't know Savages)...

Title: Re: Head gasket
Post by Dave on 04/04/13 at 09:26:31

JRLeathercraft:

I spliced this topic......This is the same subject you posted earlier, and we have already told you about the valve cover gaskets.

See reply #25 on the page 2 of this thread.

It only takes 2 screws each to remove the cap and replace the O-ring, however you will have to take the seat and tank off to get to the rear one.

THe part you need is 2 of the O-Rings part number 09280-6004, and they list for $ 2.93 each. You can open the attached link and see the cap #38 that you need to remove and O-ring #39 that you need to replace.
http://www.hondaofflorence.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=432111&category=Motorcycles&make=SUZUKI&year=2005&fveh=10118

Title: Re: Head gasket
Post by JRLeathercraft on 04/04/13 at 09:29:02

Thank you

Title: Re: Head gasket
Post by 87 savage on 04/04/13 at 17:32:36

655E5344555942445F575A45360 wrote:

+1

JR, took a real good look at your photos and the only trace of oil I can see is around the inspection caps. Dave is right, you need new o-rings for your caps. Easy fix. :)

Title: Re: Head gasket
Post by JRLeathercraft on 04/04/13 at 18:06:58

Thank you. Jay

Title: Re: Head gasket
Post by ThumperKat on 04/09/13 at 19:45:38

My '86 Savage has the 'plug' leak, I don't know when it started as when I bought it the entire bottom of the engine case was caked in old oil, prior owner didn't have a clue. Yes, it's annoying, once warm, it smokes like a frieght train from the header as it cooks oil off (it will get you lots of admiring looks from cage drivers). I've had the bike since '09 and haven't fixed it yet, I clean up leaked oil during (when parked LOL) and after a ride. It does tend to accumulate in plug area and left side due to kickstand lean..I'll get it fixed, when I can..until then, I'll keep on riding it.
* Still working on bob conversion *sigh*..maybe later this or next year.
Keep it upright and rollin'!