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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> OIL WAR First oil change... (5w-30 and STP) /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1357060631 Message started by raydawg on 01/01/13 at 09:17:11 |
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Title: OIL WAR First oil change... (5w-30 and STP) Post by raydawg on 01/01/13 at 09:17:11 I have almost 3 grand on my bike already, had the first service covered at what, 400, 600 miles? Thought I'd change the oil as my rides are every day short ones (26 miles total commute) and its cold and wet. Not sure if that strains the lube action or not, but I just got a hankering to get to know my gals workings a little more intimate and I have some good multi weight 5-30 sitting here. Anything I should do or look for? I know wet weather and air filters don't go well together, think I should peek in there too? Thanks gang and hope all have many safe miles in this new happy new year.... |
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Title: Re: First oil change..... Post by Dave on 01/01/13 at 10:03:34 You need to be careful about what that 5W-30 oil is.....not all modern oils are compatible with our old technology engine. Modern energy efficient and reduced emissions oils could have friction modifiers that will make your clutch slip - and reduced ZDDP levels that may not be compatible with the cam and rockers. Here is the info you need to consider: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1344471565 |
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Title: Re: First oil change..... Post by raydawg on 01/01/13 at 10:09:34 Thanks Dave, this oil is from the bike shop, I'll post the particulars before I add it just to be sure. I was wondering if STP might help, or does it coat the clutch too much? |
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Title: Re: First oil change..... Post by Oldfeller on 01/01/13 at 10:14:38 Raydawg, Have fun with your oil war. Remember, facts and sources are required when oil warring. I am calling you out on your oil from the bike shop -- where is this bike shop that recommends 5w-30 oil for a Savage? What brand is this oil that "the bike shop recommended"? I think you are just trolling for the chuckles of it, and if you can't back up your statements I will certainly lock your thread post haste. Oil wars are sacred turf around here, not to be taken lightly. ;D ;D ;D Happy New Year everybody STP indeed ..... |
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Title: Re: First oil change..... Post by WD on 01/01/13 at 10:22:18 Don't use the stp, and if that is Actevo, take it back to the bike shop, Actevo is repackaged Syntech car oil. Straight from the Castrol rep's mouth. Golden Spectro is Mobil 1 yellow/gold top car oil per their rep. Savage clutch and cam are straight out of the 1970s. Plain old Delo, Rotella or similar is all you need. Even plain old cheap Super Tech 10W40 (get the pre-1986 formula) is fine. |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR First oil change... (5w-30 and STP) Post by Charon on 01/01/13 at 10:24:49 I suppose you could consider the wisdom of reading your Owner's Manual, which recommends 10W-40 oil, with JASO MA rating. It has been a long time since I ran across the reference, but STP is said to be a "Viscosity Index Improver" or in plainer language an oil thickener. Using it is a more expensive way to make your oil a grade or two heavier. Far as I know, no manufacturer of either cars or motorcycles recommends additives of any type for either oil or fuel, with the exception of fuel stabilizers for machines kept in storage for relatively long times. |
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Title: Re: First oil change..... Post by raydawg on 01/01/13 at 11:38:08 71525A585B52525B4C3E0 wrote:
Now c'mon OF, every cotten pick'n post ain't a troll of devious magnitude. Perhaps, a suggestion mind you, no need to bank it, but PERHAPS some of us greenies don't have/share your wisdom and expertise on the matter of cycles....so in other words, dumbing down a wee bit might provide dividends to the overall demeanor to the board. Lord knows if I had thin skin instead of leather, I might very well shrink away from posting, and the site, from my knuckles getting whacked by an intolerant teacher, And sides, I was told as a wee grasshopper stupid questions don't exist, only stupid answers..... So, in all fairness, I wish you'd remove the "war" verbiage from my title, as I ask in sincerity. As to my STP question was because my Pa used it on all his motors and I never ever recall him having to rebuild a single one. Sorry if that ruffles the reasoning of some, can't do much about that, now other than shutting up, eh? As I stated before, I will report the brand of oil before I change it, so please stay turned. I have to finish editing the photos I took of my wife's bead work that she sells on the INTERNET, then the rest of the day is mine :D |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR First oil change... (5w-30 and STP) Post by raydawg on 01/01/13 at 11:58:18 Here it is.....GN4 4-stroke motorcycle oil SAE 10W-40 SJ distributed by Honda has the MA rating ???? and meets JASO T 903;2006 and API performance. Well....proceed or what? |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR First oil change... (5w-30 and STP) Post by verslagen1 on 01/01/13 at 12:03:53 6F7C6B6A75787E7C7728190 wrote:
1... Clymers has errors... Suzuki/Clymer Manual Errors (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1119775997) 2... Owners will sell a bike rather than do maitenance... Cam Chain Adjuster check (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1191167029) 3... Lot's of info in the tech section. The link is in my sig where the orange is pointing. Control F will help you find what you're looking for. 4... Don't ask about oil, not even where it goes. Especially not to bill.[/quote] you were warned ;D |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR First oil change... (5w-30 and STP) Post by Dave S. on 01/01/13 at 12:24:47 Never add STP to a motorcycle engine, it's a friction reducer and could cause your clutch to slip, plus it would be difficult to remove. Also, I would not use 5w-30 oil, 10w-30 works just fine in weather down to 40 degrees, colder than that is too cold to ride, IMO. Everyone has their favorite oil, Bel-Ray makes an oil for big singles, called "Thumper oil" and at about $10 a liter it would be a good choice. Also use a good oil filter, K&N or Hi-Flo. You only need to change the oil once a year, use good stuff, the bike will last a long time. |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR First oil change... (5w-30 and STP) Post by Gyrobob on 01/01/13 at 12:36:28 If you ignore all the research and expertise in previous threads here from the likes of Verslagen and Bouletard, we will think of you as a silly man. Based on what these guys know (not their opinions, but what they know) I will never use anything other than Rotella T6 with a little Redline zddp additive (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1344471565) added for insurance against tappet wear, etc. I have multiple engineering degrees,... I have an FAA mech cert with A&P certs,.. I have about about 52 years and a third of a million miles of motorcycle building, riding, and maintaining experience. I assess what they say as valid. I have spoken. ;) |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR First oil change... (5w-30 and STP) Post by raydawg on 01/01/13 at 13:08:47 714F4459545954360 wrote:
No need to think, I readily admit.... I know I will heed the advice and use the recommended oil once my warranty expires for fear if anything did happen it might present a loophole for them to deny a claim. Just a little background to my paranoiac...I bought a brand spanking new Rebel and it only last 3000 miles and had to have the top-end replaced. Nothing but headaches and without a commuter in the summer for 3 weeks I was waiting in my cage for hours to and fro work in the ferry lines. Once I got it back, the clutch started to fail, ARG....bullet- proof Honda's my butt-end. So, I am leery about straying away from the manuals recommendations at this point, for it was their discretion as to cover the other bike based on how they thought I treated it, etc.... |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR First oil change... (5w-30 and STP) Post by Oldfeller on 01/01/13 at 13:21:00 OK, same question. What manual recommends 5w30 oil for a Savage engine? and don't think we didn't notice you changing the weight on the oil 10w40 on us while our backs were turned ;D Limber up some, son. This here is now a declared OIL WAR and we is all bored and you are merely the "most excellent excuse" for general mayhem now .... Whether or not you intended to troll one up is a moot point, we gots us one now !!!! |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR First oil change... (5w-30 and STP) Post by Dave S. on 01/01/13 at 13:34:18 Well, there's those of us who ride and service our bikes. And then there's genius's like reply #10 who like to brag how smart they are. I guess you'll just have to follow the Suzuki manual, but only use 2.2 liters of oil. |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR First oil change... (5w-30 and STP) Post by raydawg on 01/01/13 at 14:35:42 183B3331323B3B3225570 wrote:
You turn your back on me then complain....HA. B'sides I didn't know my grammar and punctuation was be scrutinized.... :P So....all done, but know I have another question, stupid one too. When the bike is running the oil leaves the inspection window, yes, as its pumped through the head, etc. It only settles back once its off and setting in the bottom of the case, right? darn....only 364 more days of understanding and cycling bliss to go this year ;D |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR First oil change... (5w-30 and STP) Post by Dave S. on 01/01/13 at 14:45:29 After the engine runs a while, turn it off and wait 3 or 4 min. for the oil to settle, hold the bike straight-up and check the site-glass, the oil level should be about in the middle. |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR First oil change... (5w-30 and STP) Post by Oldfeller on 01/01/13 at 15:00:29 OK, that's better. Gots to get yer juices flowing if you are going to tread the churned earth of an oil war .... kelvar undies helps a bit too. Suzuki Manual recommends what oil grade again? SF? That's an issue you get when your owner's manual is over 20 years old and the grade of oil it recommends dropped off the face of the earth 15 years ago. We are currently in the era of SN oils and all car oils ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR A SAVAGE AT ALL, PERIOD. SJ isn't much better, a smidge or two better yes (1,000 PPM vs 800 PPM generally speaking). SF back in the day had 1,350 to 1,500 PPM of ZDDP in it commonly, but SF had no minimum ZDDP requirement listed, just a 1,500 PPM max that was referred to but not enforced. So watch out for what is actually in a"claimed modern SF" oil as lots of them are showing up at 800 PPM and are just relabeled SJ through SL car oils .... remember, no minimum number was given as part of the SF standard. Additional aggravation comes from expensive bike oils not always being suitable for the Savage as well. Example: GN4 4-stroke motorcycle oil SAE 10W-40 SJ as distributed by Honda. Honda may well recommend this oil for their current bikes as they use roller cam followers and direct actuated buckets in their modern stuff and they may well get away with it. SJ grade means no more than 1,000 PPM of ZDDP and remember, older grades than SL didn't list an enforced minimum number on ZDDP. But you don't see the old single cam with flat tappet Honda straight fours and the flat tappet old Goldwing groups recommending that oil, as they are in the exact same boat we are in. Antique Flat Tappet Rocker Arm Valve Trains .... which require the old 1,350 plus high levels of ZDDP that were common in the SF era. Even the old flat tappet Honda bike guys don't recommend Honda oil any more. Bobistheoilguy has a Honda dude asking questions about Honda oil, you can catch some info from the Bob's boys concerning using Honda brand oil in Honda motorcycles. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1452523&page=all Now, having said all that --- what does SuzukiSavage.com in their Tech Section recommend for oil for use in the 1980's designed Antique Flat Tappet Savage Engine? |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR First oil change... (5w-30 and STP) Post by raydawg on 01/01/13 at 15:17:13 On the pantie level....I've no doubt I could keep up with you, but this other mumbo jumbo you toss at me makes my head hurt from trying to figger out what it is, HOWEVER, take heart (but leave me panties alone) a fog is starting to lift and I think I see what you mean.... Now what is it about those additives you site, how do they perform, you know, in the physical sense, do they cling and coat the parts better, a higher heat range, etc, without compromising the clutches ability to grab? Why would a manufacturer risk warranty claims by not addressing the issue? I know you can only provide a supposition, but it makes me wonder, especially when you consider how much they pay to advertise and name recognition when this INTERNET can wipe out millions of dollars of "spin" with owners (us'ins) telling of their woes and disalusion of that (their) product via the WWW.... BTW....how you feel about yellow moons and purple hearts on yer panties? |
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Title: Re: OIL WAR First oil change... (5w-30 and STP) Post by Oldfeller on 01/01/13 at 15:30:59 37243C21243222450 wrote:
Not trolling for trouble, are we? ;) No, you get no personal lessons -- go read the Tech Section. BTW, this is your second offense of attempting to troll up trouble. First offense was here: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=135233302201 Trouble we get enough of naturally, we don't need folks trying to create it just for their own jollies by dredging up upteen years worth of oil wars. Thread is locked, Raydawg warned. |
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