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Message started by paulmarshall on 12/04/12 at 18:57:37

Title: Stronger Clutch Springs
Post by paulmarshall on 12/04/12 at 18:57:37

I read a post here regarding gearing up the drive ratios and upgrading clutch springs to prevent clutch slippage. There was a link posted also as to which springs to use. Can anyone confirm that this in fact is true and if so can anyone provide a part number.

Title: Re: Stronger Clutch Springs
Post by paulmarshall on 12/04/12 at 20:07:24

I found the post in question.

"Since hutch mentioned clutch slippage, if you go to a gear ratio that is high like 2.5-2.75 it may be an issue.
the springs on the savage are not that good so here are the part numbers for a high friction plates and springs from bike bandit.

Bike bandit sells the vesrah plates and springs for the savage.

VC330- Plates - 79.95
SK330- springs - 10.95

These should take care of any clutch slippage that is caused by the additional load generated by these gear ratios.

Is their any truth to this?

Title: Re: Stronger Clutch Springs
Post by Oldfeller on 12/04/12 at 20:40:23

Paul Marshal,

Many things were written over 2 years ago concerning clutch plates and springs on the Savage.

What was missing from our knowledge at that time was the different lengths of push rods and the beneficial effect that it had on prolonging the useful life of our clutch. MANY SETS of clutches were replaced over 2 years ago that likely were not needed. Much fiddling with washers under the springs was also done, also not always needed.

If you have been using miscellaneous oils instead of recommended oils, you can clean your fiber plates and steel disks to get rid of the slicky stuff.

What you should do now is go to the Index and look up the current references for Clutch and read up some.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1181745927

========================

Dave, did the folks at EBC ever get their clutch springs sorted out correctly? Hate for folks to buy springs from them and get what you got.

=========================

Hop up motor guys, what is the story on your clutch pack? Mine is still OEM stock.

Title: Re: Stronger Clutch Springs
Post by paulmarshall on 12/04/12 at 20:59:32

Thank OF. That Index you provided is very informative and I have saved it to favourates. Thanks :)

Title: Re: Stronger Clutch Springs
Post by Serowbot on 12/04/12 at 21:11:04

I'm wondering now,...
This issue of top gear clutch slip, came up before,.. and I posted that I get it 4th to 5th,,,
... but, now, since the mention of gearing up,... it may have been while I using the extra 2 cogs Kawa 454ltd front pulley... (and it only slipped WFO, 4 to 5shift, while drag racing my buddy)...(we tend to do that regularly, on one specific stretch)...

I just never tied, gear ratio, to top gear slip before...
Huh... (.. and, I appear to be typing my thoughts,.. rather than any useful info),.. sorry 'bout that...

Any way,... the concept, that gearing effects clutch slip. is interesting, and new to me...
Maybe,... our stock clutch is overtasked at final ratio's beyond stock?...
:-?...

Title: Re: Stronger Clutch Springs
Post by verslagen1 on 12/04/12 at 21:12:00

I put some barnett heavy duty springs in mine, fixed right up.

others have added a thin washer under the spring.

thin, a thick one with bottom out the spring.

Of course, that was the '96. the '88 has a kevlar clutch with stock springs, man that ain't slippin'.

Title: Re: Stronger Clutch Springs
Post by paulmarshall on 12/04/12 at 21:45:12

42514647585553515A05340 wrote:

I put some barnett heavy duty springs in mine, fixed right up.

others have added a thin washer under the spring.

thin, a thick one with bottom out the spring.

I have faint signs of oil coming out past the arm release, So while I have it open I will look at replacing springs? I will look at length of rod. I dont think I will go as far as cleaning the plates as OF suggests, In saying that I will look at them. Anything else?

Title: Re: Stronger Clutch Springs
Post by paulmarshall on 12/04/12 at 21:47:05

Regarding the leak it is the rubber o ring I need to replace?

Title: Re: Stronger Clutch Springs
Post by paulmarshall on 12/04/12 at 22:00:44

283B2C2D323F393B306F5E0 wrote:

What was the part number for those springs you used? I am on there site looking at spring conversions but not sure which ones.

Title: Re: Stronger Clutch Springs
Post by Oldfeller on 12/04/12 at 22:20:06

Paul, if you are going to take your clutch pack apart at least roughen up your steel plates on both sides with a finishing sander and medium coarse paper.

You may find that the steel plates are currently showing smoothing and perhaps some dark steaks of glazing (energy star compounds at work).

Any USA energy star compounds that were used within the last 5 years operate mainly by binding to steel, so the steel plates are what gets mostly affected.

By sanding your steel plates good, you get it all off the steel plates and the contaminated darkened zones on the fiber disks will then be fairly quickly abraded clean up by the rougher steel plates (those steels will become smooth again fairly quickly as they wear some).

You've asked about Rimula oil, it has a GOOD detergent and suspension package (similar to Rotella) which will help in your clutch clean up efforts. Rimula would also help keep you from going back to a slip situation. Getting energy star contamination out of your engine is a process that takes some time and quite a few oil changes to accomplish.

Thin washers put under the springs won't hurt. What mainly helps the most is getting your chrome rod pointed into the center of your marks on the gear case halves This means tuning your push rod length. If you don't have this and are out of that zone, then you are drifting in the wind.

Title: Re: Stronger Clutch Springs
Post by paulmarshall on 12/04/12 at 22:23:40

56757D7F7C75757C6B190 wrote:

Paul, if you are going to take your clutch pack apart at least roughen up your steel plates on both sides with a finishing sander and medium coarse paper.

You may find that the steel plates are currently showing smoothing and perhaps some dark steaks of glazing (energy star compounds at work).

Any USA energy star compounds that were used within the last 5 years operate mainly by binding to steel, so the steel plates are what gets mostly affected.

By sanding your steel plates good, you get it all off the plates and the contaminated darkened zones on the fiber plates will then be fairly quickly cleaned up by the rougher steel plates (which will become smooth again fairly quickly).

You've asked about Rimula oil, it has a GOOD detergent and suspension package (similar to Rotella) which will help in your clutch clean up efforts. Rimula would also help keep you from going back to a slip situation.

Thin washers put under the springs won't hurt. What mainly helps the most is getting your chrome rod pointed into the center of your marks on the gear case halves This means tuning your push rod length. If you don't have this, you are drifting in the wind.

I did that rubber band test and the top mark was in the middle of the arm. Would this require a longer rod?
When you say thin washers how thin?

Title: Re: Stronger Clutch Springs
Post by Oldfeller on 12/04/12 at 22:35:14

You gage off the bottom edge of the arm, while the arm is being lifted up with a rubber band to take all the slack out of the system.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1348364195/0

Here, we went all through this about 3 months ago, take a look (he had the same questions you did).

Title: Re: Stronger Clutch Springs
Post by paulmarshall on 12/04/12 at 22:39:34

54777F7D7E77777E691B0 wrote:

Mine is like the top pic so mine is good. :D

Thanks OF

Title: Re: Stronger Clutch Springs
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/04/12 at 22:50:28

Considering the fail rate of the throwout arm & the potential for it to create huge damage should a hunk of it get into some gears, Id leave the clutch springs alone until I knew I had a reason to stiffen them up.

Title: Re: Stronger Clutch Springs
Post by paulmarshall on 12/04/12 at 22:56:21

3D2224233E3908380830222E65570 wrote:

I am removing the clutch cover to replace the o ring, How do I establish wether the springs are stiff enough?

Title: Re: Stronger Clutch Springs
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/04/12 at 23:16:24

Is the engine giving you RPM that isnt represented by MPH?

IOW, is the clutch slipping?

Title: Re: Stronger Clutch Springs
Post by paulmarshall on 12/04/12 at 23:18:23

From what I understand that the springs have to be removed to measure them. Is it really that differcult to remove them?

Title: Re: Stronger Clutch Springs
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/04/12 at 23:21:43

Is your clutch slipping?

Title: Re: Stronger Clutch Springs
Post by paulmarshall on 12/04/12 at 23:26:04

37282E2934330232023A28246F5D0 wrote:

Is the engine giving you RPM that isnt represented by MPH?

IOW, is the clutch slipping?

Yes when I am travelling at about 100km/75mph and turn the throttle the clutch slips a little.

Title: Re: Stronger Clutch Springs
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/04/12 at 23:28:27

Is that due to a gearing change or did it have the wrong oil in it once?

I think if theres a way to avoid shimming or putting stronger springs in, its a good move. MY opinion.,

Title: Re: Stronger Clutch Springs
Post by paulmarshall on 12/04/12 at 23:34:50

455A5C5B4641704070485A561D2F0 wrote:

Is that due to a gearing change or did it have the wrong oil in it once?

The guy I brought it from didnt have a clue. I would say its had the wrong oil in it. I have relaced the oil with one similar to the Diesel oil you guys use. It helped heaps and the slipping reduced.

Title: Re: Stronger Clutch Springs
Post by paulmarshall on 12/04/12 at 23:35:28

The gearing has been changed too.

Title: Re: Stronger Clutch Springs
Post by verslagen1 on 12/05/12 at 08:58:50

4C5D4950515D4E4F545D50503C0 wrote:

[quote author=283B2C2D323F393B306F5E0 link=1354676257/0#5 date=1354684320]I put some barnett heavy duty springs in mine, fixed right up.

others have added a thin washer under the spring.

thin, a thick one with bottom out the spring.

Of course, that was the '96. the '88 has a kevlar clutch with stock springs, man that ain't slippin'.

What was the part number for those springs you used? I am on there site looking at spring conversions but not sure which ones.[/quote]

Gonna have to find the package with the old ones, p/n wasn't on the invoice... flea bay find.

Title: Re: Stronger Clutch Springs
Post by verslagen1 on 12/06/12 at 18:36:27

found it

7B687F7E616C6A68633C0D0 wrote:

scored them on fleabay.

p/n mt10-4

fits several bikes

Title: Re: Stronger Clutch Springs
Post by paulmarshall on 12/06/12 at 18:39:26

465542435C5157555E01300 wrote:

found it

[quote author=7B687F7E616C6A68633C0D0 link=1189208401/0#13 date=1189290156]scored them on fleabay.

p/n mt10-4

fits several bikes

[/quote]
Thank You