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Message started by rfbznb on 09/22/12 at 18:36:35

Title: clutch is slipping need help
Post by rfbznb on 09/22/12 at 18:36:35

i put a new clutch last year and i have put about 6000 miles on it but from day one it slips but it only deos it after the bike is running for like 15 nins. it does not slip at all when it is cold.
any ideas what i can do to fix it

Title: Re: clutch is slipping need help
Post by Digger on 09/22/12 at 18:40:01

Hi rf,

The first thing we need to know is the history of what brands/weights of motor oils have been in the crankcase.....

Title: Re: clutch is slipping need help
Post by rfbznb on 09/22/12 at 18:44:06

sense the day i put the clutch in i have been using Rotella T 15W40

Title: Re: clutch is slipping need help
Post by rfw2003 on 09/22/12 at 19:00:35

This may seem redundant but did you properly adjust the clutch cable including the rod replacement if needed, also did you replace the steels or at least scuff them up?

R.F.

Title: Re: clutch is slipping need help
Post by rfbznb on 09/22/12 at 19:09:35

i did ajust the rod and cable but i did not scuff up the steel plates

Title: Re: clutch is slipping need help
Post by ZAR on 09/22/12 at 20:09:10

4256524A5E52300 wrote:

i did ajust the rod and cable but i did not scuff up the steel plates

rfbznb the steel plates tend to get glazed over time,especially with worn friction plates/slipping clutches and such. In order for the clutch to grab and hang tight the glazing needs to be gently scrubbed off the steel plates. Also,new clutch discs need to be "broken-in" just like a new/rebuilt engine.

Title: Re: clutch is slipping need help
Post by Oldfeller on 09/22/12 at 22:08:58

5A4E4A52464A280 wrote:

i did ajust the rod and cable but i did not scuff up the steel plates

It is obvious you had clutch slipping problems before (or why else did you replace the clutch friction plates?).

What sort of oil did you use previously (in other words what sort of contamination was burnished into those steel plates that you never cleaned up)?

Also, take a moment and tell us how you adjusted the rod when putting in these new clutch plates. What sort of friction plates were they, what sort of springs .... details, some details please.

Title: Re: clutch is slipping need help
Post by rfbznb on 09/23/12 at 12:22:26

before i changed the clutch i used castrol 4 stroke oil.
i got the bike used with 16000 miles on it and its a 1986
so im not sure what they used it before me.

i used ebc friction plates and i reused the spring that it had on it because they where bigger and stiffer then the ebc spring i got.

and with the rod i just made sure that it had play when i put the side cover on and it was not tight pushing on the clutch.

im not sure if it matters but i did do the chain conversion a month after i got the bike because i do alot of highway riding.

the clutch mostly slips on the highway when im doing about 70 and i try and go faster to pass.

Title: Re: clutch is slipping need help
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/23/12 at 12:38:55

Are you just tired of it doing that, or is it getting worse?>

Title: Re: clutch is slipping need help
Post by rfbznb on 09/23/12 at 12:43:56

im tired of it doing and it is allso getting a little worse.

Title: Re: clutch is slipping need help
Post by rfbznb on 09/23/12 at 12:48:52

ok i going to probably have to change the clutch again what parts should i use.

and is there anything i should do to help it from sliping later on.

Title: Re: clutch is slipping need help
Post by Oldfeller on 09/23/12 at 12:57:11

You have told me nothing about how you adjusted your push rod length, nothing about checking the chrome lever vs the marks on the case and about putting in the correct push rod length for your new EBC plates to put your chrome lever in between the marks on the crankcase.

Indeed, you have never told me where your chrome clutch lever points to right now, so you may be out of whack or not -- you have simply never said.

You did tell me you used Castrol oil, 4 stroke which I am ASSuming was a motorcycle oil. If it was a car oil Castrol, you are possibly screwed again because Castrol car oil can have energy star compounds in it that can make your clutch slip. You have never even said what weight you used.

EBC clutch sets have known issues with wrong springs (and who knows what else wrong as it seems they come out differently each time somebody tries one).

You did not brake parts cleaner to chemically strip your steel friction plates, followed by thorough sanding on both sides with medium-coarse sandpaper powered by a finishing sander to remove all the burnished and ground in place anti-friction coating crap you inherited from your previous owner.

When steel plates go back in they should be showing fresh shiny scratch marks all over them on both sides.

=====================

Start out with saying where your chrome clutch lever is pointing relative to those case marks ..... use a light rubber band to put a very mild up tension on the lever to take out all the slack in the eccentric system -- top picture is good, bottom picture is bad.

http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/clutch_001.jpg

Title: Re: clutch is slipping need help
Post by rfbznb on 09/23/12 at 13:12:40

ok right now the pin on the lever is right at the top of the lower mark.
im not sure of the push rod lenght when i did the clucth i did not know they had diff. lenght ones.

i can move the crome lever up and down about 3/16"
when it is down the pin on lever is in the middle of the lower mark and when i push the lever up the pin is atthe top of the lower mark.

yes the castrol oil was for motorcycles.

Title: Re: clutch is slipping need help
Post by Oldfeller on 09/23/12 at 13:22:19

Yes, there is a ton of slack in the system, which makes it necessary to use the rubber band test method.

Put the light rubber band under the lever and put the gentle up force from the rubber band under the lever tugging it upwards and then report where the bottom of the lever sits relative to the marks.

We don't care about the rivet, we use the bottom of the lever as our gauging point and we use the rubber band to remove all the slack & slop from consideration.

So, using the method, where are you now?

Title: Re: clutch is slipping need help
Post by rfbznb on 09/23/12 at 13:35:06

ok the bottom of the lever is about 1/32" lower then lower mark

Title: Re: clutch is slipping need help
Post by Oldfeller on 09/23/12 at 13:46:25

OK, you got to fix that. You are going to need a slightly shorter push rod.

While you are in there, take the clutch apart and brake parts cleaner strip and then finish sander sand the steel plates with coarse sandpaper -- expect to dull up/tear up a couple of sheets of sandpaper doing this.

Then put the clutch back together and false fit the case cover with the gasket in place and recheck that lever alignment using the rubber band. Sanding those plates will shift things a little bit, so you have to check after sanding and after putting it back together again,

Then replace the pushrod with a shorter one to get the bottom of the lever in between the crankcase marks (side case screws tightened to 100 inch pounds which is their normal torque) while you are pulling UP on the chrome lever with the rubber band.

Get all this right or your clutch isn't going to work correctly.

Title: Re: clutch is slipping need help
Post by rfbznb on 09/23/12 at 13:51:01

ok
should i use new oem or ebc fricton plates and what springs?

Title: Re: clutch is slipping need help
Post by Oldfeller on 09/23/12 at 13:59:09

Now, with great pleasure I get to tell you -- it doesn't matter on the friction plates.

(don't use the EBC springs, they are known to be wrong and EBC will send you a set of corrected heavier springs if you e-mail them about the issue)

There was nothing wrong with your old fiber plates that scrubbing them with gasoline, followed by scrubbing them with hot soapy water, followed by drying out in the sun and then lightly hand sanding the surfaces with medium sand paper to break up the glazing wouldn't have fixed.

you just sand them lightly by hand until the color changes, that's enough

No one has EVER worn out a set of fiber clutch plates (be aware that Cylmers lists the thin and thick plates ass backwards in their thickness table). CHANGING THE PUSHROD REMOVES ALL EFFECTS OF FRICTION PLATE WEAR and it will take you forever and a day to get outside the service spec range on the friction plates themselves.

So, suit yourself. Whichever set looks better ..... I'd clean them though.

Don't throw your old set of fibers away though, they are still perfectly serviceable with a little TLC cleaning and deglazing. Keep them as a spare set.

Eventually, you will work up a set of pushrods and get better at knowing when you have to change them.

And lastly, try to stick with the approved oils listed in tech section, we pick them for a reason you know.

(nobody wants any clutch hassles around here, least of all me)

You should wet all your fiber and steel plates with the correct oil before putting the clutch back together.

Title: Re: clutch is slipping need help
Post by rfbznb on 09/23/12 at 14:02:17

thank you every much i will try this today