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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire War /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1342402435 Message started by Oldfeller on 07/15/12 at 18:33:55 |
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Title: "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/15/12 at 18:33:55 Read down, this is now a Rear Tire Mileage and Total Cost per Mile comparison between the major brands of rear tires that we use on the Savage. Went to the Dragon with over half of my tread depth remaining, had to come back a day early due to a totally bald rear tire. Watched it evaporate, day by day (it was very noticeable). Modern superbike tires suck, they have to be soooo soft and grippy just to hold them 100 hp bikes on the road that they evaporate too durn easy, even on a puny 30 hp Savage. Went on a search for longer lasting hard rubber (sipe construction) rear tire, think I may have found one that gets pretty close to the size envelope of the Dunlop Cruise Max tire that was on it before. Had to go all the way to Japan/South Korea to get one ..... hard rubber rear tires are a rare item these days. The price I paid was a bit of an issue, especially with all the $$ you have to pay to get a tire shipped these days. The Dunlop on the right was a $114 dollar tire that cost $16 to ship (that's over $60 a year I paid to run that sorry evaporating son of a gun Dunlop tire ....) http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/DSCF00306.JPG What do you guys think? ;D feel free, we haven't had a good tire war in ages ..... |
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Title: Re: Hard Rubber Rear Tire War Post by Greg on 07/15/12 at 18:46:26 I would be curious to hear how it performs in various conditions. I found that long lasting tires for my Jeep had poor performance on wet pavement. |
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Title: Re: Hard Rubber Rear Tire War Post by ralfyguy on 07/15/12 at 18:49:18 A 165/80-90 car tire fits on the stock rim and into the frame without rubbing? On my bike it does .... your bike, probably would rub several places. And what was the tire you evaporated? Dunlop Cruise Max 140/90-15 90 series tires have higher profiles than 80 series tires do so the height comes out within a half inch of each other new (Nexen is taller and wider) |
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Title: Re: Hard Rubber Rear Tire War Post by WD on 07/15/12 at 18:50:04 What, a Nankang 135-15 aircooled VW tire isn't good enough for ya... oh, wait, the Savage makes more power than a 1200cc VW... ;D can't find the 135/80-15 Nankangs any more -- world has changed and V dub tires are scarce any more -- got to get a tire intended for a Mini Cooper or a TR6 I've got a couple Dunlops for mine or I'd be going the same basic route, car tire. 1/2 the cost, 10X the tire life. No worse than the old Firestone, Acme or Carlisle lightning bolt motorcycle tires.Talk about some hard rubber. |
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Title: Re: Hard Rubber Rear Tire War Post by ralfyguy on 07/15/12 at 18:53:34 3336313A3D37540 wrote:
I had a Michelin tire set on my car I bought new in 1993. They were fine on dry roads, but abysmal in the wet. You could slide the car in the wet like it was on snow. I sold the car in 1998 with 60% thread left on them. I am not joking. The car had 125,000km on it then. |
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Title: Re: Hard Rubber Rear Tire War Post by ralfyguy on 07/15/12 at 18:56:47 6271350 wrote:
A VW has 34HP with 1200cc, but way better traction. The Savage is light and that torque it produces always produces slip you are not even aware of all the time. That is were your rubber goes missing. |
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Title: Re: Hard Rubber Rear Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/15/12 at 19:04:30 What? A Savage can be hard on tires? Bunch of grayheads pokying around in the mountains isn't gonna hurt a well built tire any .... ;) Seriously, we do slip the rear tires on acceleration out of the corners and we ouchie them good with the brakes going in too. Road heat was a factor, high 99-100 degree road temps even up in the mountains that week. |
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Title: Re: Hard Rubber Rear Tire War Post by ralfyguy on 07/15/12 at 19:26:47 I got that Dunlop K555 on the rear since about almost 6,000 miles and it has about 40% left. I like twisting the throttle and I use ALL the tire, not just the middle, if you know what I mean. So that isn't that bad. The stock IRC is simply GONE after 2,500 miles of my style riding. It isn't worth a darn. Same with the stock brake pads. GONE in no time, and 40 bux a set. The Kevlar pads from ebay are on since over 3,000 miles and show hardly any wear, AND are friendly to the rotor too. |
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Title: Re: Hard Rubber Rear Tire War Post by thumperclone on 07/15/12 at 22:37:05 of you dont tell us how many miles. metzler 880s imo On the Dunlop? 2 dragon runs and some in town stuff, less than 5000 miles total on that particular tire. Most of that was running around town and the road miles to and from the Dragon and less than a thousand miles running the curves. Have you priced a Metzler 880 in 140/90-15 lately? $161 plus shipping ??? It would have to last a long long long time to get your purchase price back. |
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Title: Re: Hard Rubber Rear Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/16/12 at 07:03:42 Let's see what we can do about those excessively thick and long tubeless sealing surfaces that all tubless tires seem to come with today. They do get in the way when mounting a tire on an old style simple tube rim like the Savage uses. High bead seating pressures are caused by this excess "tubeless" rubber sealing surface that you aren't going to be using anyway. High seating pressures are DANGEROUS. (don't ask me how I know this) You can break a steel wire tire bead if the seating pressures get over 60 psi and the bead gets hung up and gets kinked over the edge of the rim. And lookie, finally something useful to do with the electric turkey slicer other than sit in a drawer for years at a time. A couple of drops of oil between the blades periodically (rubber is tougher than turkey after all) and don't slice for more than 5 mins at a lick, then stop for 15 mins to give the little motor some cool down time. Whole job takes 20 minutes of run time, so you can afford not to overheat the little electric knife by giving it a break every 5 mins. of cut time. Then take the knife blades apart and wash it up real good and put it away for next Thanksgiving. "Honey, this turkey tastes funny .... sorta like rubber." "What are these little black flecks in the meat?" |
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Title: Re: Hard Rubber Rear Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/16/12 at 07:08:45 How do you know where to slice? Look at the tire you just took off -- the bead conforms to the Savage rim exactly after being clamped up by pressure all that long. Measure the Savage rim conformed old tire and see where that distance comes on your new tire. I was lucky to have a little seam line that was at just the right spot, so for me turkey trimming away all the fat was easy. |
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Title: Re: Hard Rubber Rear Tire War Post by thumperclone on 07/16/12 at 09:46:14 i got front and rear for $215.54 from CruiserCustomizing.com when they were runing a sale + free shipping 9k and counting |
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Title: Re: Hard Rubber Rear Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/16/12 at 12:52:34 Good man, catch the good stuff on sale and go fer it. My current full set (I bought a front tire also, but that was shipped in) with tax and shipping cost me $55.64+$46.98+$6.98 = $109.60 Since you bought the very fine Metzler quality tire you can spot me the measly 9,000 break in miles you got on your set and I'll spot you the extra $110 in cost that you paid out of pocket for the tires -- now that we are more or less even with each other we can have us a little mileage war over what remains. We'll race the rear tires because we all know fronts outlast the rears at about 2 to 1 ratio so the rears will always "tell the tale" on brand durability a lot quicker. Sound fair to you? If we both live long enough to wear out our current set, the first one to replace a rear tire buys the beer. This of course provides only one "out" for the bet -- tire death due to misadventure (tube failure, road hazard slice, etc) over which nobody has any control. Anybody else got a freshly installed rear tire that you want to get into the betting pool with? Gotta have some pride in your tire brand and faith in the mileage, enough to put a six pack at risk? We'll make the reporting rules simple, to get into the betting pool you report your odometer mileage and current tread depth and what you really paid total for the rear tire (include the shipping & mounting please). Then each year you measure your tread depth and report your odometer mileage. I'll whup up a spreadsheet that gives miles per thousandth worn off and cost per thousandth worn off. It will even predict "miles to zero tread depth" which will be pretty meatball but kinda fun to watch progress. This method allows somebody with an already started rear tire to participate evenly with no penalty as we can say it is a "least cost per mile over life of the tire" kind of tire race. Sound like your kind of Tire War? Ya got some Pride in what you ride? |
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Title: Re: Hard Rubber Rear Tire War Post by SaVaGeEaRL on 07/16/12 at 13:27:48 I just put one of those dunlop rear tires on about 500 miles ago. stock size 140/90/15 I think its the 404 |
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Title: Re: Hard Rubber Rear Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/16/12 at 13:34:44 Stay off the Dragon in the summer peak heat and you'll do OK with the Dunlop -- what is your shipped and mounted total tire cost, tread depth (measure center of tire by the valve stem and not on a wear bar pls) and your odometer mileage right now. Where are our Perelli 66 lovers? (they say they love them, anyway) Shinko boys, you have a chance here as the low initial cost gets factored against miles that you get out of it -- you may get fewer miles than the high price spread but I bet your cost per mile is very competitive. Note: this is why we ask for shipped and mounted cost -- folks who don't have to put one on as often as a Shinko or a Maxxis have to do they get an appropriate bonus for that cost savings. Hey, this might turn into a pretty useful brand comparison tool if we can work it right. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by ralfyguy on 07/16/12 at 15:46:48 I paid $225 for a K555 installed on the rear almost 6,000 miles ago. That was with bringing them just the rear wheel. There is only one place here in a 150 mile radius that installs motorcycle tires. Not much of a choice there. That tire has about 40% life left. The front I did different. I bought the whole wheel from Pinwall Cycles on ebay, it was almost new and that was also some 6,000 miles ago. That whole thing cost me about $75 including shipping. It was a great buy. No problems with it. Your race horse is too heavy at $225 as sitting in the gate -- you are disqualified with an overweight horse for this kind of lowest cost per mile race. You could have bough four (4) of my tires at that price, and mine was bought retail at my local WalMart for $55.46 with sales tax included. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by SaVaGeEaRL on 07/16/12 at 16:26:59 Ok, just got home from work. Installed Dunlop 555 140/80/15 on the rear at 10,000 miles. I now have 11,394 miles and have 9/32 tread depth. I bought the tire online for 110 bucks shipped and paid a shop here 50 bucks to remove the wheel, mount and balance the tire. Now I'm needing the ft tire and have a fork seal leaking. I suppose I'll try the fork seal myself and while I'm at it, I'll remove the ft wheel and take it to get a tire put on it. This one is sorta too heavy at the gate too, $160 at the gate with only 9/32 thread available (.022"). You could have bought 3 of my tires for that price, and I have .310" worth of thread on each of mine. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by WD on 07/16/12 at 17:36:17 My bike doesn't have an odometer... or a speedometer come to think of it... Dunlop Qualifier (stock VS800 tire). $40 each out the door on clearance/close out. Mounting cost N/A, friend up the road has a tire machine. The one on my wife's VS800 lasted from 1996 to 2004, about 13K miles. Same size Kenda has at least 60% tread left some 3K miles later. Savage is lighter so expect the same when it's back in service. You can't find Nankangs anymore? How many you need, the local VW shop has a few dozen... :-? |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/16/12 at 18:24:57 Thanks WD, but I'm good for the next 5 or so years with the Nexen I just bought for $55.64 from my local WalMart. Since I modded the rear fender for the 165/80 Nankang that I ran before so I likely have enough room for this one as well. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Brian on 07/16/12 at 18:37:34 I've got a Pirelli MT66 in the mail now, I'll update once I get it installed. |
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Title: Re: Hard Rubber Rear Tire War Post by Badass94Cad on 07/16/12 at 19:14:40 76555D5F5C55555C4B390 wrote:
I just mounted a brandy new rear Metzeler ME880 and took it out for a nice twisty 70-80 mile break-in rip on Saturday. I'll have to get the paperwork and a tread depth gauge. 8-) We have a contender here, freshly mounted Metzler 880 !!! |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Jack_650 on 07/16/12 at 23:04:02 I would suppose this little competition isn't open to the darksiders among us. I've only put a few thousand miles on mine and it's still got the little nibs on it. Probably just as well seein' as how I don't drink anyway. But I'll not be buying a new rear tire for a long time as I took the advice of some old fella on here about two years ago. Jack Jack, take a good close look at the pic of my new tire ..... yeah you can play with them if you want to. I'm sure gonna. Do you remember your purchase price and mounting cost? We will need that, the name brand of the tire and the tread depth dead center (missing the wear bars please) taken by the valve stem so we all do it the same each time. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/19/12 at 07:15:47 Got my new tire mounted this morning. Even with cutting away the unnecessary tubeless sealing rubber until the bead looked about like a normal old style tube type bead the air pressure necessary to seat the bead was still 56 psi and that is still up in the danger zone for bead breakage. Note: these were Mexican built 155/80r15 BF Goodrich Radial TAs that did all this bead breaking we keep talking about, but the lessons learned from them are still applied to mounting any and all car type tires on the rear end of a bike. Don't go over 60 psi to pop the bead -- something is wrong if you have to go there -- stop and fix it. Oh well, we are gonna have to stick with not recommending car tires to anybody as folks who put them on the rims really need to know what they are doing. We have had too many broken beads due to people hanging up a bead on something then hitting it with too high an air pressure trying to get it to go ahead and seat anyway. Bloooowie !!!! Ears ringing and left wrist bleeding, months to recover completely -- don't EVER go over 60 psi to seat a bead. BTW, MMRanch turned me on to putting grease on that small patch of bead that just won't seat otherwise. I don't know where he picked that trick up from, but it works. You don't grease the entire bead, just the stubborn section that won't seat otherwise. This way rotation or slippage won't ever be an issue since less than 20% of the circumference gets the grease applied to it and the other 80% sticks to the metal rim just fine when the water and soap dry up. Now for balancing and installation on the bike, then we will be good to go to start the Great Tire Mileage Race. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Boofer on 07/19/12 at 21:29:05 The surest way I know to ruin a tire is running it low on air pressure. Since I would guess most of you don't check your pressure until it feels squishy on a curve, a tire wear comparison should include an asterisk. Or maybe two or three. I let a good K555 run low and "feathered" the tread before I knew it. You can bet I won't do that with my Metzeler Me 880s. I checked them Monday after about a month. The front was down six lbs and the rear was down nearly ten lbs. AND buy a good guage...not the ones in the candy jar on the counter for 99 cents. ;D |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by gerald.hughes on 07/19/12 at 22:02:13 Here are my Metzler 880s at 15,000 miles. Oh yea, and I weigh 300+ pounds. Rear http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp223/gerald_hughes/IMG_3733.jpg oooooh, them Metzlers look like they are some stiff competition headed my way on the mileage front Front http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp223/gerald_hughes/IMG_3730.jpg |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Boofer on 07/19/12 at 23:13:43 Looking good, Gerald. I forgot to mention I carry a small notebook in or on all my vehicles. It helps with remembering oil changes and also has dates for warranty items like water pumps and starters. I can look up the mileage/date in the notebook, then dig out the receipt from an overstuffed glove compartment. ;) |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/20/12 at 05:17:31 Here is the Nexen is sitting on my high tech balance stand. This tire required 17 inches of small diameter solder wire to balance it -- no big horkin' lead weights on the spokes (even the smallest one that I had was too too much). This is the best balanced tire I have ever put on a bike, ever. ============= Race mathematical methodology: Obviously you would be best served to have a freshly mounted tire to get maximum mileage and get a least calculated cost per thousandth worn off the tire. But, the methodology would allow a "tire in progress" to compete in the short term as the amount worn off per year is just a small sliver of the total tire life. I propose to take the total cost of the shipped and mounted tire divided by the height of the tread in thousandths to come up with a "total cost per thousandth". Then, each year when you report your tread height we can instantly calculate what your cost per mile was for that year and meatball how many miles "theoretically" you have left to go on the tire. This method doesn't care how many miles you put on the tire in a year. A little or a lot, it doesn't matter to the math. Now, this method does penalize the Shinko guys appropriately for having to change their tires 2-3x more often for the same miles than the Metzer guys who only had to do it once. The life of the tire consumes the entire shipping and mounting cost after all. However, remember the Shinko costs a whale of a lot less than a Metzler so they might be competitive in the short haul cost per mile. Thoughts anyone? Can this be improved in any fashion? For example, my Nexen cost $52 ($55.64 with tax) picked up at my local WalMart. I mounted it myself, so my shipping & mounting cost was nil. I have 310 thousandths of tread depth in the center next to the valve stem. My total cost per thousandth of thread depth (stated in dollars) is $55.64 / 310 = $0.179 (or roughly 18 cents per thousandth). How long this is going to last is a different story of course, but I do have a lot of thousandths to burn on this particular tire and the net cost was low, so I think I might have me a contender. So, unless you have a different method to propose, what is your shipped and mounted cost and your tread depth for each brand of contender out there? We will need your current odometer mileage too. Hey, check out the nicely curved radius on this tire, I got some high hopes for this one, I do |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by ralfyguy on 07/20/12 at 11:05:58 OF, there is still one thing I wonder about : How does a car tire handle in the corners, specifically when getting the pegs close to contact with the road, compared to a regular MC tire? |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by rfw2003 on 07/20/12 at 11:11:13 33202D2738263438410 wrote:
+1 I like to push real hard into the twisties so this would be a real concern for me. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/20/12 at 13:33:16 Shush now, I'd be more worried about getting it on the rim without having the bead break and go bloowie on you. Several dark sider tires are riding around the list right now. MMRanch and I ran a darksider on all the early Dragon Runs. Peg grinding is not an issue. Look at the pic below, there isn't much difference between a new modern darksider's starting profile and that of a normal "worn out" rear tire's profile. Do they ride differently -- yes -- but after a month or two your hind brain gets used to it and it feels normal to you. I ground off the stock muffler mounting bracket on my bike and flatted my acorn nuts that hold on my brake foot petal using a darksider tire, so you can heel over just as far as you normally can with any other tire. And no, they don't ride up on the sides like a bike tire does -- the belt construction keeps the tread more flat to the road and the sidewall does the flexing, just like it does on the front end of your car when you go around a sharp turn. Long term wear pattern on a darksider tire looks a good bit like a front tire on a car does, more on the edges, relatively less in the middle. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by ralfyguy on 07/20/12 at 15:47:04 1330383A393030392E5C0 wrote:
What kind is the old tire in that pic? |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/20/12 at 16:40:52 Dunlop Cruise Max 140/90-15 is the worn out one. This is the new one. http://www.walmart.com/catalog/tiresResultAction.do?year=&make=&model=&vehicle_path=false&tire_spec_selected=&tire_type=&tire_load_index=&tire_load_range=&tire_speed_rating=&tire_equivalent_load_index=&tire_size=&dept=1077064&path=0%3A91083%3A1077064&Flag=TiresS&tire_width=165&tire_ratio=80&tire_diameter=15&x=32&y=4 I bought mine through Walmart, but these Carid guys actually have a much better technical write up on the tire and they have videos of the Nexen mgf and testing facilities so if you are curious, take a look. (video link is right under the three views of the tire in the upper left hand corner of the page) Nexen means "next century" in Korean and looks like they are mainly a sports car tire company. This tire was not intended for a VW Beetle -- I think it was meant for more of a Mini Cooper and TR6 instead. http://www.carid.com/nexen-tires/sb802-165-80r15-453665.html |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/21/12 at 07:57:59 OK, got the Nexen on the bike with relatively little trouble. It is physically smaller than the Nankang I had had on previously, so it required no tweeky fiddles at all -- just dropped into the space that was opened up for the older bigger tire just dandy. Remember, my bike is modded to handle a large tire. (click here) Fitting MUCH Larger Rear Tire (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1181496112) Start mileage is 19,737 Start tread depth is .310" Shipping & mounted cost included is $55.64 (I included the sales tax) Got my pony in the gate boys -- where are yours? You might not be able to beat me, but you certainly can beat all the other bike tires. I see Badass94CAD as the major bike tire contender, coming in with a fresh Metzler 880 just installed this week. Jack650 will come in with another darksider tire of a different brand, so we shall see how that goes as the years roll on by. Bryan will come in with a Perelli. Still need a Shinko |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/21/12 at 10:46:49 Oooooh, this Nexen tire is gonna be nice. :) It has no squared off feel to it at all and it is less "odd feeling" at changeover than the last new motorcycle tire I just put on and wore out. So far I've had it up to 70 just to see if it had any wobbles and so far so good, nothing strange has occurred. Cornering is good and the wear scuff is staying well within the tread pattern at the bottom edge of the tire (says the thread is staying relatively flat going around corners). Right now I am running 34 psi as a start spot -- I will raise and lower it a couple of pounds and run it that way for a consistent month or so seeing if there are any sweet spots to be found. Goldwing Folks have filmed darksider tires going around chassis scraping turns and the contact patch generally covers from tire mid point to tire edge then it rolls over to the opposite mid point to tire edge as you go through a set of S curves. They do lift up a little bit, but only about half a tire's worth which is OK as the actual tire contact patch is still HUGE compared to the bike tire's little bitty radial contact patch. Contact patch is always a lot bigger than a bike tire as the darksider tire conforms to the road better (that is what steel belted radials and matching sidewalls are all about, conforming to the road and generating grip force while resisting rolling wear). Cornering and braking in the wet is good as well, any of the "all season radials" are tested extensively and each tire has to earn its wet grip rating. We had a downpour on Sunday afternoon, so I put on my shorts and a tee shirt and went for a ride in the middle of it. My rear tire gripped to the ability of my new rear brake shoes (not fully seated yet) to actuate the brakes in driving rain stopping tests -- there was no slide. Cornering was fine too, but you can't ride super fast in the rain anyway as you can't see very well with the drops blasting in your face. This is safe enough I think. This Nexen is an all season tire with a Wet Traction Rating of "A" (only "AA" is better in the wet and those are generally special purpose rain/snow tires) ;D me happy !! ====================== I'm happy, but car tires are still not recommended to anyone because quite simply they are dangerous to mount on the rim. "Break you and bleed you" sort of dangerous. They also require extensive mod work to get enough room under the fender for them to fit into the limited space back there. Just because I'm happy won't keep you from bleeding OR having to do all the countersinking, drilling, tapping, axle spacer fiddling and brake drum actuator extending. Fitting a MUCH larger tire is a lot of work. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/21/12 at 12:18:19 First pass at the tracking spreadsheet ..... Who else is proud of their rear tire and thinks they get good tire mileage ? |
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Title: Re: Hard Rubber Rear Tire War Post by youzguyz on 07/23/12 at 07:56:25 7F5C5456555C5C5542300 wrote:
Can't say I like your calculation method completely. Shipping, OK, or tax if you bought it locally. But mounting? Some people mount their own.. no cost. Or how much is their labor worth? Come to think of it.. how much is the extra time, effort, etc, add to the work you did for the " Fitting MUCH Larger Rear Tire"? Does that figure into the cost of your Dark Side Tire? OH.. you say you only had to do that ONCE.. OK.. and how many Dark Side tires will you be putting on during the life of your motorcycle? I run Metzler ME 880. If you want, I can give you the mileage I put on them according to my maintenance records. And I can tell you that I never let them wear past the wear markers on the tires. How many thousandths that is between new and that point, I did not bother to measure. If those figures are of worth to you, I will gladly provide. But, I don't care to measure my tires on any kind of basis. It's not that I'm not curious, it's that I don't care to run any other kind of tire. I tried a few, and I like ME 880.. Silly me.. sticking with what works for me. Oh.. and please don't edit my post. Feel free to quote as you wish, but do it on your OWN post. Thankyouverymuchhaveaniceday!! :D |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Badass94Cad on 07/23/12 at 10:19:15 I'll try to post my info tonight. Been real busy lately. Judging by the chart, I'll definitely be the high price! :P BTW, are we including new tubes in the price, or no? I figure no, but throught I'd ask. 8-) |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by verslagen1 on 07/23/12 at 11:46:24 I don't think including the installation cost is a fair comparison as no one is going to install your darksider tire for you, too big a liability risk for you. Yet with a m/c specific tire you have a choice. Did you include the cost of the tube? (I don't have one :P ) With my D401 hurly rear tire, I got a year and a couple of months, let's say 14000 for $110, shipping free, installation free. And my metz was only installed a couple of months ago, so check back with me in a year or two. 8-) OF Hey, what are your odometer and tread depths on that nearly brand new Metz and do you want to tell us what you paid for it? Metzlers are NICE tires after all and will run and run and run. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/23/12 at 13:20:06 Tubes, if you put one in each time feel free to include it in the total cost. I reused the tube from the tire before since it was only 2 years old and never even thought about tubes as an adder cost as I tend to run them to failure. But you are right, a new tube is part of the cost of the tire's life if you always replace it every time. If you want me to be fair, I'll charge myself half the cost of the tube at a 50% pro rated $3 (bought 3 on ebay for $18). As far as adding the cost of the tire wheel well mod, that cost $8.94 in bolts and was done 3 tires ago in 2007 so I think of it is "part of the environment" six years later. But if you want totally fair I'll include a third of the hardware amount at a pro-rated $3. So, I will tack on $6 to my tire and let the math roll it on out to ..... $61.64 total purchase price which translates to $0.20 per tread thousandth. It added another 2 cents to my wear rate cost. =========== Hey, I believe in fair. ;D |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by youzguyz on 07/23/12 at 14:04:41 I still don't think the cost of getting the tire on the bike should be a part of this analysis. You didn't mention the amount of labor for doing the Dark Side Mod to the bike.. only the amount for the parts.. piddling. Do we mention the money spent vs the aggravation saved on having the tires put on the wheels? What about putting the wheels on the bike? Some people pull the wheels, take them to somewhere, have the tires mounted, then put the wheels back on themselves. (That's me) Some people just take the whole bike to the shop and have them do all the labor. Some people do it all themselves. If so, what about the price of any special tools to make that happen? (Gonna buy me an umpteen gigiillion dollar tire machine, and the hugemongous air compressor to make it work so I can change my own tires out without busting a knuckle). Yes, I exaggerate. Yes, I understand it is "Mileage/Cost per mile", but it doesn't tell you which tire gets the prize if you factor in the price of all the different methods of shipping, the various labor that can be added, or the aggravation and mayhem of the pieces you do yourself! Yes, I understand it is your war, and you will slant the body count as you desire. Just my opinion that the way to do it: 1. Person says they have a tire. 2. Find out the best, worst, or average cost to land that tire in their hands. Use the website(s) of your choice. (Price will also vary depending on sales, how far to ship, if you ship, or did you just buy it from your buddy down the street). So, use as few websites as you can and calculate based on shipping to YOU. It may not be perfect, but it is closer than somebody having to pay shipping to outer Bavaria from Timbuktu if that is the closest place that has it, while the next guy only has to walk around the corner and grab one off the floor. And then you can measure tread wear.. OH WAIT.. ummmm.. Gee.. guess what? Road surfaces really impact tire wear. I know a guy that rides ALL over the place.. and a lot. He says the roads out in the Dragon area will eat a tire up a LOT faster than most places he has been. And how you ride has some influence as well. Oh well.. continue on with your war. I will send you my Metzler mileage figures anyway. I shall now cease and desist. Retreat and surrender ::) |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/23/12 at 15:07:34 Don't retreat nor surrender, let's talk about the total cost of tire ownership since you guys have listed a bunch of things that commonly don't get taken into consideration. And we'll keep talking about bias/slant, since I will be scrupulous not to have any. ;) It is my opinion that folks have been gulled by the bike industry to expect bike tires to cost $160 installed or thereabouts, and then for you expect them to only last 3 years. That is a yearly cost of ownership of about $50-$55 a year. You pay $9.99 at Walmart to have a car tire mounted and balanced and installed on your car. You pay $50-$70 thereabouts to have the same service done on your bike. You have been conditioned to think of these things as "normal". Verslagen is not going to have to include a tube cost because he has tubeless rims -- that's fine by me. He didn't have to buy one. I put my own tire on the rim, and I put my own wheel on the bike, so I didn't have to pay that $50-$70 cost. I didn't have to buy that service (nor do you, actually). The whole point here is to get you to think about what your yearly cost for rear tires really is, and how much you pay per mile to ride on that tire. Metzlers are very very nice long lasting tires, but do they have really all that much of a different cost per mile than a Perelli? This is our chance to find out. ========= Now, about them ugly darksider thangs .... Car tires ARE NOT RECOMMENDED BY ME or anybody else to go on the back end of a motorcycle. I have some serious "make you bleed" issues with darksider bead seating air pressures that historically have hit 90 psi just to get a car tire bead to pop on to the bike rim (all that extra tubeless rubber gets in the way). Darksiders ARE dangerous to put on the rim, no doubt about it. But if you care to think about it, darksiders have strong natural cost advantages. Purchase cost is half or less, they are reported to last 5-10 times longer than a bike tire and they grip and ride acceptably to those that have installed them. Both of mine have, anyway. I can't verify the long lasting part as I only had 4x longer on my first one before the rust spot on the rim ate through the rim strip and the tube and killed it. But it died with half its thread depth still on it .... If you think it isn't fair to have a darksider compared with a bike tire, we can make up two different classes on the spreadsheet to keep them separated. Math will be the same though. So, what other thoughts do you have? |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Badass94Cad on 07/23/12 at 15:55:15 OK, here's my breakdown: 1995 Suzuki Savage Mileage: 6835.8 Tire: Metzeler ME880 Marathon 140/80HB15 BW Cost: $153.00 (My local shop matched, actually beat MotorcycleSuperstore.com by $0.99, and no shipping) Tube: $17.95 Installation: $75.00 Total for rear: $245.95 I also installed a front tire (if anybody cares). Avon Cobra AV71 100/90-19 WWW Cost: $142.99 (matched with MotorcycleSuperstore.com) Tube: $20.95 Installation: $75.00 Subtotal front: $238.94 Total F/R: $484.89 (tax not included) I haven't had a chance to measure the tread depth. Doing a lot of running around right now. I'll try to get them ASAP. I have approx. 175 miles on the tires so far. 8-) |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by wernermeister on 07/23/12 at 16:29:19 6744414456561C11664441250 wrote:
WOW, that is some serious doe for just getting new tires put on, even if they are the Best! :'( |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Badass94Cad on 07/23/12 at 16:31:02 6674637F74637C747862657463110 wrote:
WOW, that is some serious doe for just getting new tires put on, even if they are the Best! :'( [/quote] I know! :'( I was going to comment about that but hesitated. I was going to say that's a lot of coin, considering I got the bike for only $500. ;D |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/23/12 at 18:31:35 Metzler claims the tread depth is 8mm (.315") but somebody needs to check theirs dead center on a mounted tire taken at the valve stem area so we have a reality checked number that will be consistent. How does Meztler do their legally required wear bars? The thread never actually crosses the center line of the silly tire .... We are going to just have to pick one of the grooves and measure it at full depth as close to the center line of the tire as you can get. Verslagen, you want to play now that we all know the ugly secret behind the emperor's new tire? It costs TWICE to THREE TIMES as much as other bike tires ..... ouch !! |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by verslagen1 on 07/23/12 at 18:51:18 47646C6E6D64646D7A080 wrote:
he's probably not going to tell... but my guess is he got more then a hummer with that. :o and is just covering up the cost. What would 2 skin flints be playing anyway? BTW, I broke my piggy bank and bought some aromatic nitrogen gas to replace that old worn out air in my tires. Now I'm getting 5% better gas mileage. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/23/12 at 20:55:11 I think I understand why the boys are grumbling at me about having to report the mounting & balancing charges -- they paid more to have their tire mounted than I paid for mine in total (even with tax, tube, mod hardware and all the rest added in with it). I haven't paid full ticket for a bike tire in sooooo long I had no idea that stealerships were getting some major car type repair dollars for putting a tire under your fender for you. Some of these numbers are flat crazy. Maybe I should amortize my tire irons (bought in 1972 for $5.99 for a 3 part set) and toss in another few quarters to help them feel better. ::) |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by rfw2003 on 07/23/12 at 21:20:50 Can't find the ticket atm, but I only got charged $80 total for mounting both tires and doing the front brakes on my Savage. I thought that was rather cheap TBH. That price also included the price of the front brake pads. I also ended up getting a free new rear tube because the tube burst when they were setting the bead on the rear tire. They said since they checked the tube and it looked good before they went to mount it all it was their fault so they supplied the new tube free. R.F. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/23/12 at 22:28:43 LOOK AT THAT, the cost per thousandth of tread depth is very similar between the bike tires. Within a nickel of variation so far ..... I think the Metzler rubber is a good bit more durable though. That's why we need miles and miles and tons of miles to tell the whole story. Verslagen, get yerself off that fence and go ahead and ring in --- you make tons of miles every year. Ring your Metzler in as "new" and state the current tread height with your digital caliper as the spreadsheet doesn't care that it isn't really brand spanky new. The yearly comparisons will be just fine calculation-wise. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by verslagen1 on 07/23/12 at 23:08:06 about .150 nearest the center at 54540 installed February 2012 5 months, approximately 5000 miles. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Badass94Cad on 07/24/12 at 05:10:53 I'm sure I could have shopped around for a better price on installation, but I figured 1. The local Suzuki stealership would do a fine job and 2. They matched the online tire price with no shipping So I figured why kill myself to save a couple more sheckels. ;) |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Retread on 07/24/12 at 06:54:45 Put a couple Shinko's on it, forget about it... OF Do you have a rear Shinko? We have been waiting for one ..... |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/24/12 at 07:17:01 Carl needs to MEASURE his tread depth on his new Metzler Verslagen needs to tell us what his tire really cost (shipped, installed & everything) Right now the spreadsheet contains Carl's cost and Verlagen's 5 month old mileage (the math is customized to allow the 5 month period Verslagen reported in) and the advertised Metzler 8mm tread depth. The result of this collage of bullshit semi-data is very very approximate only, but it indicates a Metzler mebbe might just not be all it is cracked up to be by Metzler. ============= Hey, some real depth and dollar figures from the two participants might be a sorta nice thing about now, don't cha kinda mebbe think? ;) By simple math, Veslagen has worn almost half his tire tread depth away in 5,000 miles. Thus his earlier comment, "In a couple of years I'll be able to tell you the real total mileage". It won't take 2 years at his current rate of tread consumption. This too indicates a Metzler might not be all it is cracked up to be cost/mileage wise. We have very mixed data coming in on the Metzlers, we have old members claiming 18,000 miles with tread remaining and we have more recent tires generating much lower numbers. It is a puzzlement that the owner's wrist style and his road temperatures undoubtedly plays a part in. Now, to deal with the spreadsheet being so durn small, right click on it and "Save image as" to your desktop, then open it and expand it as necessary with your own favorite tools. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by verslagen1 on 07/24/12 at 11:51:47 7D5E5654575E5E5740320 wrote:
shipping... FREE!!! installation... FREE!!! tube... FREE!!! (none) ball park $140 In 130/90-16 there are 2 kinds, high speed V rated or H rated, I took the V rated, may have been 8mm tread depth, they didn't say when I ordered. OF We really need for Carl to measure his tread depth so we will know what they really are depthwise. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Retread on 07/24/12 at 12:53:54 54637274636762060 wrote:
Tour master 230's or 777's |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by youzguyz on 07/24/12 at 16:57:31 You didn't ask, but here it is anyway. Miles 18,500 replaced both tires w/ Metzler 40,000 replaced rear 52,600 replaced front 58,500 replaced rear 78,505 replaced rear (caught 2 screws) replaced w/ Perelli Screwed tire still has a bit of tread on it. Mounted on my spare rim. 79,534 pulled Perelli and went back to Metzler 83,000 replaced front How much did I pay for the tires? Just look it up somewhere, use what ever price works for you. How much did I pay for the labor? Assume I did it all myself w/ my bare hands.. Oh.. and please track your Dark Side tire. I'm sure it will be more cost effective than any M/C tire. Still think you ought to charge yourself for labor, pain and suffering, mental anguish, etc!! :D |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/24/12 at 19:11:13 Miles 18,500 replaced both tires w/ Metzler 40,000 replaced rear 21,500 on first metz rear 52,600 replaced front 58,500 replaced rear 18,500 on second metz rear 78,505 replaced rear (caught 2 screws) replaced w/ Perelli Screwed tire still has a bit of tread on it. Mounted on my spare rim. 79,534 pulled Perelli and went back to Metzler 83,000 replaced front I'd say you got very very good mileage out of the first two Metzler rears you put on your bike. The third tire that got screwed still had 20,005 miles on it. Metzler ME 880 15" tires cost ~$164.95 best price currently with zero shipping cost from Amazon.com. http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000GV7CZ4/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1343187646&sr=8-1&keywords=metzler+me+880+140%2F90-15&condition=new I'll punch in your 21,500 mile tire at those costs and we will see what sort of cost per mile numbers you generate. =================== I did all that "paying for darksider development" last time, so when the 1 1/2" scar on my left wrist began to fade all past debts were considered paid and past tense. But you notice I durn sure figured out a way to lower the bead seating air pressures from over 90psi to below 60psi, now didn't you? =================== When is a Metzler not a Metzler? Answer, when it is one of those OTHER Metzler tires ..... (and there is a shite pot full of them too) http://www.us.metzelermoto.com/en_US/browser/attachments/pdf/2011_METZELER_DEALER_LO.pdf Metzler Marathon ME 880 has two sizes that will fit on our bike .... They have several different silica compounds (depending on what you are going to do with it) You need to be very specific, you want the MAXIMUM TOURING MILEAGE tire and the H compound. .... and I don't think the high mileage good one is the "V" for very high speed compound either, she's evaporating on you like my Dunlop did. Verslagen didn't get what he mebbe thought he was getting. Same thing might happen to you. ;) Dealership stock and "closeout prices" likely apply to WHAT THEY HAVE LEFT OVER after they sold all the good high mileage tires. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/24/12 at 22:33:02 Youzguyz, here you go. Your H compound beat Verslagen's V compound on cost per mile and I beat you 2x on cost per thousandth of tread height with my Nexen. It still remains to be seen if the Nexen rubber compound itself can generate a lower cost per mile with that 2x cost per thousandth of tread height advantage but still, congratulations, you now represent the bike tire to beat at this stage of the game at 0.8 cents a mile. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by verslagen1 on 07/24/12 at 22:47:47 price update $123 |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/24/12 at 22:59:50 OK, its punched. Your 130/80-16 tire doesn't even apply to a Savage anyway -- we use the fatter heavier (more costly) 140/80-15 or 140/90-15 and we will be careful to always use the H compound since you were kind enough to show us that the V compound sucks rocks for long tread life compared to the H compound. You BEAT Youzguyz by a whopping 13 cents on cost per thousandth, but your V compound sucks so badly for durability compared to his H compound you gave it all up in poor wear/durability. ;D |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by verslagen1 on 07/24/12 at 23:46:32 that was the price I paid for that tire, just looked it up. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by youzguyz on 07/25/12 at 02:12:17 6C4F4745464F4F4651230 wrote:
58,500 - 40,000 = 18,500. not 28,500 |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/25/12 at 06:35:04 Thanks for the catch, I just goofed. I knew the 21,500 was the biggest number so I mighta/musta just typoed the 28,500 when I typed the cut note. Check the sheet again, I put in Verslagen's $123.00 price on his skinny 16" tire that fits his modded bike's cast rim. It helps him some, but not enough. He now gets a cost per thousandth advantage of $0.13 but his softer V compound gives it all away still. Moral of the story becomes this "Metzler makes a lot of ME 880 tires that have DIFFERENT COMPOUNDS -- you want to buy an ME 880 Marathon tire with the H compound to get the good mileage." ;D Durn, I didn't know that ..... did you know that? |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by youzguyz on 07/25/12 at 06:42:07 00232B292A23232A3D4F0 wrote:
I appreciate the insight. I have always put the 140/80-15 on the rear, and it looks like that size only comes in the H compound anyway. Lucky me! |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/25/12 at 07:02:19 On my bike I find the 140/90-15 size partially corrects the minor speedo error the Savage seems to have. You can have minor bolt head issues inside the fender with the right hand sissy bar rail (or if especially you have bag brackets mounted) if you ever want to try to go to that size. Oddly enough, the Nexen doesn't seem to generate much of a speedo shift -- I back checked it against a bicycle speedo that was calibrated against 10 miles worth of interstate mile markers (about as accurate as real people can get other than expensive GPS devices) and my Nexen error is inside the thickness of the speedo needle. The tire was not very much taller than the worn out 140/90-15 Dunlop that had no speedo error either. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by youzguyz on 07/25/12 at 07:42:22 40636B696A63636A7D0F0 wrote:
I ran a 140/90-15 Dunlop before I went to Metzler, and had the bolt head issue. Ground them down. I use digital speedo's on both bikes. I don't like looking at the tank to check my speed! |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Paraquat on 07/25/12 at 09:28:08 I kinda want to get in on this. I need new tires but having only ridden once in April I'm dying to get back on the road. I won't be putting the new tires on until it's too cold to ride. --Steve |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/25/12 at 09:38:33 So far, the tire to beat is an H compound Metzler Marathon ME 880 in size 140/80-15. You can mount a 140/90-15 in the same tire if you are willing to grind on some bolt head up inside your fender. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by 12Bravo on 07/25/12 at 09:46:09 I didn't have to grind any bolt heads when I put a 140/90 15 Metzler on my bike. Maybe I got lucky on that. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by SALB on 07/25/12 at 10:10:26 7D5E5654575E5E5740320 wrote:
The 140/90-15 will fit without modification. The 150/90-15 requires either grinding the bolts inside the fender, or replacing them with button heads. :( You may also end up grinding some of the weld down in the front of the swingarm. >:( |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/25/12 at 10:10:34 Most of the bolt grinders are installing "fire sale" Dunlops of varying types that are being dumped off by the dealers as their stock gets about ready to age out. 140/90 is kinda a rare size, so they are the ones that get moldy most often. As a list, we can (and do) buy and use them up, gladly. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Brian on 07/25/12 at 10:15:13 Ok, I've finally got some info for you. Tires are being put on as I type. Pirelli MT66 140-90-15 5544 miles tread depth: 0.298 tire $: 88 Shipping$ : free install $:25 tube $:17 total $: 130 OF Dave, we need your mileage at that point right along with the accurate depth of the tread at center line (not on a wear bar please) taken at the valve stem so as to get consistency between all of us over the years as they roll on by. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/25/12 at 10:15:21 484B485C4A424C290 wrote:
The 140/90-15 will fit without modification. The 150/90-15 requires either grinding the bolts inside the fender, or replacing them with button heads. :( You may also end up grinding some of the weld down in the front of the swingarm. >:([/quote] Oh, my, all that work for a 150/90-15. And what would you have to do if you wanted to put in a 165/80r15 ? Is it even possible? :D |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by SALB on 07/25/12 at 10:26:34 6241494B484141485F2D0 wrote:
The 140/90-15 will fit without modification. The 150/90-15 requires either grinding the bolts inside the fender, or replacing them with button heads. :( You may also end up grinding some of the weld down in the front of the swingarm. >:([/quote] Oh, my, all that work for a 150/90-15. And what would you have to do if you wanted to put in a 165/80r15 ? Is it even possible? :D [/quote] I really didn't want the 150/90-15, but through a mistake in ordering, thats what I got. :'( I didn't want to wait another week to get a 140/90-15 and pay the extra shipping, so I referred to this site, found out it could be done, and did it! In retrospect, I wish I would have just sent it back. But, as you point out, you can modify to your hearts content to make just about any tire fit! ;) |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/25/12 at 10:42:42 But it is always good to have the smarter younger people who have actually done stuff like the 150/90-15 tire to share all the details to help out us old feeble minded geezers -- we need all the help we can get, don't you know it. We screw up a lot all the time now-a-days, V versus H compounds, 28,500 vs 18,500, heck we'd have no clue about changing them swingarm weld beads or complicated stuff like that. Soon we'll all be lined up on the porch rocking right along with Bill and be a' talking to each other right along in Billish and a cacklin' and a grin'in with our toothless old grins .... |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by SALB on 07/25/12 at 10:49:16 4D6E6664676E6E6770020 wrote:
OK, so I came across as being a know it all...not my intent. :-[ But to compare me to Bill....That's just down right MEAN! ;D |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/25/12 at 11:07:52 Mean? Me? I was saying I (me) was going to be lined up in the rocking chairs with Bill and the boys, not you -- you are only 39 years old and are in your prime (for the next 20 years anyway). You don't get no rocker, your knees still work good so you sit on the stoop. Well, you might have got teased jest a little bit for trying to teach Grandpa how to suck eggs -- and if you think a little bit about that Tech thread you read when you got in your jam with your mis-ordered tire, Grandpa wrote it. Gotta watch them old geezers now, they fudges on you a bit they do. I got two of them jest a fabricatin' away on their details and denying what they said earlier about taking their rear wheel in and paying dealership people to put their tire on the rim and claiming now they did theirs with their very own pinkies. Gotta get that cost per thousandth down jest a little bit, they do. A six pack bet is serious business to them old geezers .... ;D |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by youzguyz on 07/25/12 at 11:16:03 5D7E7674777E7E7760120 wrote:
This geezer ain't gonna admit to not doing nuthin. What I paid to have someone bust a knuckle ain't got doodly squat to do with how well my tires wear. Not to mention the cuts I got in the labor when them youngsters at the shop did it WRONG. "He's new here, let him do tires". Put on with rotation arrows backwards, loose valve nut, valve stem pointed out wrong way on rear, over inflated, under inflated, balanced wrong. Gotta watch them kids every second. I'd bite their hands, but I ain't go any teeth. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/25/12 at 13:09:43 So what did those young whippersnappers try to charge you for screwing up your tire like that? They should have paid you to show them how to do it ..... |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Brian on 07/25/12 at 15:40:17 UPDATE: miles: 5544.4 tread depth: .298 and I'll leave my install price at $25, but for $50 he installed both tires, deglazed my back brake, cleaned my front caliper, drained my airbox, and waxed my tank. So the mounting itself really cost a little less than that. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Paraquat on 07/25/12 at 15:54:13 Do not enter this data into the list as I'm no where near ready. I just want to describe the tires I have on the bike now. I currently have IRC Grand High Speed GS-18F on the front in 100/90-18 M/C 57H and I have IRC Grand High Speed GS-18F 140/80-15 M/C 67H on the rear. I am currently at 13805.3 miles. My bike is a '99 that I purchased in 2001 with a guestimate of 3500-5000 miles (my memory sucks). These are the same brand of tires that came on my bike. I changed tires once. So I've gone through two sets of these tires in ~10k miles so roughly 5k per set of tires. I only feel the need to mention this because when I ordered the replacements the little mom 'n pop cycle shop I used to go to was surprised at my tires. I asked why and they said they were a really good tire. Probably gonna get 'em again depending how this thread turns out. --Steve |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by ralfyguy on 07/25/12 at 17:13:55 Oddly enough, ever since I got the K555 140/80-15, my speedometer is dead on with the GPS. The IRC was running a bit too fast on the speedo. So in my case getting a 140/90-15 would show slower. The K555 appears bigger than the stock IRC just from the looks. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Cost per mile" Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/25/12 at 17:51:13 4273607363677366120 wrote:
The results are already in on IRC rear tires --- They Suck Bigtime Ask yourself which you would rather do, replace your IRC every 5,000 miles for say four times (and eat all the tube and tire change costs) or put on one (1) H compound Metzler ME 880 tire at $161 plus 1 tube and tire change? Believe me, you will pay a lot more for all those IRCs, tubes and tire changes .... I remember the stock IRC was the world's worst tire for reacting badly to road seams and the parallel rod type road surface on a draw bridge drove it tee totally nuts. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire W Post by Oldfeller on 07/28/12 at 15:52:40 Reworked the mathematics so you can report depth and mileage at any point in time and it should not affect your projected mileage calculation. Well, this is not completely true, when you have only worn off a few thousandths your error in measurement of that wee little tread depth change can be about on that order of magnitude even when using the butt-drop depth rod method on a digtal caliper. Plus, the first thousandth or so of tread depth on a brand new tire is mostly mold release compound contaminated rubber, which is very soft and slicky and it disappears on you very quickly. ============================ Math changes also mean a used tire can play in the contest now without any penalty, all you need is an ACCURATE statement of starting tread depth and all your costs to install the tire. ============================ We still need a Shinko and a Maxxis rear tire to finish out all the major brands. (click on the file name listed right below to see the image at full size) |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire W Post by Oldfeller on 07/29/12 at 10:29:47 How to get into the spreadsheet to register your tire or to punch in your new mileage and new depth of thread ..... Go to Dropbox.com https://www.dropbox.com/ Click on sign in: in the top right corner. We have a shared generic Drop Box account called: suzukisavage@mail.com with password: s40boulevard Now you click on the Public Folder when Drop Box opens up. This will open the folder with all the shared stuff in it. You are looking for the Low Cost Mileage Contest.xls ;) Don't forget to save the spreadsheet once you are finished punching in your stuff. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire War Post by clearush on 09/11/12 at 20:58:13 Wore a hole into my IRC on the way home from work today ;D so I decided to go with the Shinko 712 140/90-15 (70H) $58.99 Bridgestone tube pv-78 valve $17.99 rim strip $4.15 rim protectors $5.99 3 x tire irons $10.47 dyna bead starter kit $12.99 total cost $110.58 for everthing www.rockymountainatvmc.com free shipping with $99 purchase or more :) mileage is 15,350 should have it install by the beginning of next week depending when it gets delivered. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire War Post by J C Stokes on 09/11/12 at 21:13:38 Fitted Conti Blitz 140/90 rear at 7000miles, IRC stuffed. Fitted Michelin 325/ 19 Active at 10000 miles IRC still had life Total cost $NZ299 or $US230 at Paypals exchange rate. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 09/12/12 at 03:02:19 You new tire fellers need to log into DropBox and register your tires. Like they expect old lazy sods like me to do it for them ? ;) How to get into the spreadsheet to register your tire or to punch in your new mileage and new depth of thread ..... Go to Dropbox.com https://www.dropbox.com/ Click on sign in: in the top right corner. We have a shared generic Drop Box account called: suzukisavage@mail.com with password: s40boulevard Now you click on the Public Folder when Drop Box opens up. This will open the folder with all the shared stuff in it. You are looking for the Low Cost Mileage Contest.xls ;) Don't forget to save the spreadsheet once you are finished punching in your stuff. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire W Post by clearush on 09/18/12 at 15:45:55 Included cost of tube and rim strip as cost of mounting since I did it myself. Did not include cost of tools since they can be reused on any future tire changes. So initial cost $0.36 per tread thousandth, OF: which is the cheapest motorcycle tire cost per thousandth found so far by like 3 cents. If this tire lasts well at all, it will be a contender for low cost per mile as its starting cost is excellent. :) Congratulations, don't forget to update your secondary mileage and tread depth occasionally so we can see what your predicted total miles will be (and compare them to your reality later on). |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 09/19/12 at 07:08:08 We still need a Maxxis brand tire to complete out all the brands. Remember, you can log in a tire that is already started, all you need is an ACCURATE statement of tread depth, current mileage and an accurate total cost to put the tire on the bike (mounting, tube, taxes whatever). |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire War Post by clearush on 09/19/12 at 19:00:26 meh :P I lied and forgot to add in the 7.99 cost of the dyna beads :-/ sorry about that :( Brings total cost to $89.12 and bumps me up to 0.36 per thousandth still $0.03 cheaper than the Metzler 880v :) anyways updated the excel file when I realized I had left that cost out. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire W Post by Oldfeller on 09/20/12 at 04:22:34 Are you guys getting the picture yet? Pick a tire that costs less, great, but you got to get your mounting costs down as tube, mount, balance and install can be about as much as the tire initially cost if you do it at a stealership ..... Dealerships will screw you on tire mounting and balancing --- try to find other options than the dealer. Hey, you guys try to update your tread depth and mileage on the second part of the spreadsheet -- you don't have to wait a year to put the numbers in as it will calculate and predict your total tire life after 500 miles or so with some pretty durn good accuracy. Hell, I am amazed it keeps giving me about the same predicted total miles and I have updated mine twice now with some very small initial mileage numbers. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire War Post by Brian on 04/09/13 at 05:03:22 Gentlemen, I have failed you. I sold the Savage without taking a measurement first. I'll now wonder off in shame... |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire War Post by srinath on 04/09/13 at 05:59:28 I am a huge cheng shin fan for cruisers. I'd run a Hi max (metzeler copy) front and a Marquis rear. Dont even think about a marquis front, far too hard for front use. I've run it for 15k for the pair on my first savage. The 5 savages that have followed have all gone through my hands too fast for me to even put tires on it, let lone run it to when it was used up. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire W Post by Oldfeller on 07/05/13 at 04:34:04 First mileage check after a trip to the Dragon. I ripped me off some thread depth, so my predicted results have taken a big dip accordingly. Mileage update boys, mileage and depth please How to get into the spreadsheet to register your tire or to punch in your new mileage and new depth of thread ..... Go to Dropbox.com https://www.dropbox.com/ Click on sign in: in the top right corner. We have a shared generic Drop Box account called: suzukisavage@mail.com with password: s40boulevard Now you click on the Public Folder when Drop Box opens up. This will open the folder with all the shared stuff in it. You are looking for the Low Cost Mileage Contest.xls ;) Don't forget to save the spreadsheet once you are finished punching in your stuff. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire War Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/05/13 at 07:25:13 so, in a nutshell,, who is winning? |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire W Post by Oldfeller on 07/05/13 at 13:07:30 Right now, the Metzler 880 H series is winning for miles per thousandth very clearly. Metzler 880 H is a good tire, it is the motorcycle tire folks should be using. We were tied, but then I went to the Dragon and got all froggy on the rear tire and ripped .010" off of it in a hurry. This puts me in a hole I may never get out of ..... My bad, but that is the way it really is ..... and this is a reality based contest. Cost per mile is still tied up between me and the Metzler and it will likely remain so until I post some goodly amount of non-Dragon mileage to get my overall tread usage more back in line with the earlier results. I may still win one of the categories, the cost per mile one. I doubt I will win both of them, as I go places and do things that generally eat some rear tire up in doing them. This tire may see 5-6 mountain trips in its lifetime, so I will keep on going into that same hole for abusive usage of my available tread life. Still, none of the original folks have bothered to keep up with their tire entries and since they change them tires out every couple of years the tires (and some of the bikes themselves) are already gone. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire War Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/05/13 at 16:24:42 Well,, cost/mile varies. It is directly proportional to the Grin Factor. If a guy can have 30% more fun with a 15% increase in cost/mile.. well,, thats a giggle at a discount,, Ill take it.. The math to prove the relationship is somewhere between calculus & quantum theory, so, dont bother, just accept that it exists,, I cant prove it,with math, but Ive seen it in action. Speed = cubic money giggles are at least $ squared/ cube root of daring,, |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire War Post by clearush on 07/25/13 at 20:06:32 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AooWxFXhXokSdE14SXg0WDJyQ19HWHFxTE1oQ0pNM0E&usp=sharing Don't have excel so I edited with Google drive, made it accessable to anyone that wants to edit online. Best insturment I have for measuring tread depth is incremented in 1/32 of an inch, I was almost on 5/32 by a hair or two. Looking pretty good so far 5000 miles into to the tire. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/25/13 at 20:20:16 Yes, that Shinko does look good, you have the same cost per mile as the rest of us have. That is interesting .... why don't the rest of you guys go update your depth and mileage and lets see how the rest of you are doing. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire War Post by chiguy on 07/26/13 at 16:51:11 At 10K miles, I swapped out the original Dunlups for a set of Metzler ME880's. I didn't measure the treads on the Dunlups before I swapped them, but I'm guessing there was still 2/32 or so left. The Metzlers (after 3K miles) have 5/32 front and 7/32 back. One thing I noticed, and I haven't run into any comments about this, is that the Metzlers don't seem to handle as well as the Dunlops in wet weather. I've kicked out the rear in wet weather several times riding the Metzlers in a year, and that only happened maybe once in 4 years with the Dunlops. (I probably did a little more wet weather riding with the Metzlers than with the Dunlops, but still...) After kicking out a few times, I've been super cautious to avoid it in the future. I don't know if having the rear tire lock up and slide out is common to most riders, but I'll have to say I found it disconcerting, to say the least. Fortunately pretty much only happened at slow speeds when stopping at intersections. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire W Post by Oldfeller on 07/27/13 at 20:21:42 We have tire slip all the time on the Savage and don't really realize it. Grabbing throttle while inside a turn gets you some rear end "squiggle" but only the folks following close behind you can actually see the tire slip a bit. Harder tires slip more, especially when braking hard in the wet or downshifting hard in the wet. Unless you have a dial caliper and can measure your wear to the thou or so you really can't expect any predictive accuracy out of that spreadsheet math. Data by the 1/32 is far too crude for the math to work accurately. And even when you got good measurement numbers what it winds up telling you is you do stupid things to your tires to partially destroy them, run them at low pressure, go to the mountains and tear off .010" over 2-3 days, stuff like that. Then the spreadsheet runs that change data forward and you say "Oh my goodness, to get maximum mileage out of a tire I have to ride like a granny all the time and take perfect care of the tires". But one thing becomes clear, the Metzler 880 H series may yield the best overall mileage out of a motorcycle tire, but the cheap tires like the Shinko can yield a very similar COST PER MILE RIDDEN compared to a very high mileage tire like the Metzler 880 H. They just cost that much less. Last thing, what you pay to get the tire put on weighs to be more important than your riding style -- you get fleeced getting the tire mounted and balanced and you have lost before you even get started in one of these total cost of ownership/mileage contests. And no, I ain't a gonna to win this one -- the hard rubber VW car tires I used originally wore much better than the MiniCooper/TR6 tires which are all that I can find locally in 165r15 now-a-days. Next tire I put on will be a Metzler ME880 H series motorcycle tire bought on sale. (assuming I live that long that is) ;) |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire W Post by Super Thumper on 07/28/13 at 10:44:10 When I first bought my 2001 Savage in March of 2012 it had 7200 miles on it and it needed new tires. I bought a pair of Shinko tires for it. Front is a Shinko 10SR 712F 100/90-19 57H The rear is a Shinko 10SR 712R 140/90-15 57M0. Both tires now have about 3600 miles on them. The front has about 2/3 tread left but the rear has about 25% left. Over the winter I did a performance rebuild of my engine because the head gasket was seeping and I wanted more power. It now has a 97mm carbide high compression Big Bore Kit, Stage III Web Cam, ported cylinder head, Mikuni VM36 racing carb, RamAir foam air cleaner and a custom muffler. It makes 100% more rear wheel power and since the rebuild the rear tire has been wearing at an amazing rate, about three times the front. I also changed the rear shocks to a pair of 2" longer progressive Harley Sportster shocks and the change in the handling was just amazing. With the different front rake and weight distribution now closer to 50/50 it handles more like my BMW boxer twin now than a Savage. Add to that the power increase and I can now accelerate hard out of corners where I could not before even with the same tires. I will say one thing for these Shinko tires, they are inexpensive (1/2 the price of those Dunlops), stick like glue in the corners and until the power increase the rear tire was on a track to last about 8000+ miles. The front still looks like it will last about 10,000 miles but interestingly the power increase and suspension changes have not affected front tire wear even though I now can charge deeper and harder into corners. The rear tire now will need to be replaced by the 5,000 mile mark. Tread depth with 4100 miles on these tires is: Front - 5mm, Rear - 4mm...the rear is now wearing much faster than the front due to power increase, throttle usage, etc. 8-) |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire War Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/28/13 at 11:03:50 The rear tire now will need to be replaced by the 5,000 mile mark. Welcome to the world of normal,, 5,000 is what I get from Dunlops & I had some other brand I bought twice, first time I got 5,000, so, i did it again,, but only got 3,000 on that one. fronts? meeeh,, they last a lot longer. have ya had to pull a foot off the peg because it was too tight against the motor yet? even w/ stock shocks, these things WILL lay into a corner. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire W Post by Super Thumper on 07/28/13 at 12:40:15 FYI.........Retail cost for these two Shinko tires from my shop including mounting and balancing is $249.00. New tubes are $24.95 each. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire War Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/28/13 at 12:48:57 putting a front on is a lot easier than rear. You hauled wheels in or did they pull them? |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire War Post by Super Thumper on 07/28/13 at 12:52:27 They rode the bike in and I pulled the wheels. I also have these tires on my Savage. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/28/13 at 13:00:30 Super Thumper, I know you have a dial caliper and you are around all the time. Why don't you measure your Shinko rear tire right next to the valve stem and crank you up a entry? I am plumb curious about Shinkos because Shinkos may well be the "normal man's" low cost tire of choice going forward since Chin Shin disappeared on us, but we gots us no long term data on them Shinkos because the folks making the entries sell their bikes or drop off the list too fast to report any results. How to get into the spreadsheet to register your tire or to punch in your new mileage and new depth of thread ..... Go to Dropbox.com https://www.dropbox.com/ Click on sign in: in the top right corner. We have a shared generic Drop Box account called: suzukisavage@mail.com with password: s40boulevard Now you click on the Public Folder when Drop Box opens up. This will open the folder with all the shared stuff in it. You are looking for the Low Cost Mileage Contest.xls ;) Don't forget to save the spreadsheet once you are finished punching in your stuff. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire War Post by Oldfeller on 07/28/13 at 13:17:04 Clearush, I put your numbers into the original spreadsheet. You tickled me, not having any Excel available to you -- I keep saying the young people can live jest fine off of Google and a hand held and Microsoft is jest doomed eventually to die off into dodo style extinction. Most of us old codgers don't use Google, we have what we bought when we were working puppies and that's pretty durn OLD now. I use Open Office and Linux now and I will point out to you that Open Office is totally no cost free too -- and it allows you to talk to the old fossils in prehistoric stone clickty talk jest fine .... .... and I betcha you can open the old style Excel spreadsheet with Google and put it back in Excel format using Google too. Open Office shure can. You see, we upgraded from Lotus smoke signals to Excel rock clicks about what 25 years ago, so you know we really do try to stay current around here. ;D ;D ;D clickty, clickty clik, clik-tic |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire War Post by Super Thumper on 07/28/13 at 13:23:29 Hey Oldfeller...I signed into Dropbox and created two entries for my tires but my tread depth gauge is in millimeters...hope that works. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire W Post by Oldfeller on 07/28/13 at 15:19:24 The spreadsheet works in whole thousandths, no decimal place needed. I will translate these numbers and when you go back to update put the mickymeters into this and turn them into thousandths. http://www.mm-to-inch.com/ Here is a tool to use to make the conversion. Remember, 0.225" is really 225 thousandths and the spreadsheet counts the thousandths as 225 thousandths, not a decimal number. :-? Well, I tried to fix your entry but you must not have clicked File>Save when you were done punching. ..... ain't got any data to correct. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire War Post by Super Thumper on 07/29/13 at 06:50:25 I will try it again tonight. |
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Title: Re: "Mileage/Total Cost per Mile" Tire War Post by Boofer on 07/29/13 at 22:18:31 I'll be glad to tell you my cost per mile on my tires. I wrote down the mileage last year when they were installed. (At different times) Trouble is I was ill most of the winter and until now didn't ride like I used to. Also, tread depth is usually measured in 32nd's of an inch with 2/32 considered worn out by law. I figure I'll forget this post by the time I wear out my tires. Metzeler has now come out with a new tire. I imagine it is superior to the 880s, but I'm happy with mine now. Fact is, you twist the throttle a bunch you get less gas mileage, tire mileage, piston mileage, etc. It's hard to have a tire war, because we all ride differently and when I sold CAR tires a competitor had to recall several tires because something called carbon black was shorted in a batch of tires causing a "good" set to get around 10,000 miles. :-[ |
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