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Message started by Routy on 06/03/12 at 07:53:33

Title: How many miles will an S40 run w/o any oil in it ?
Post by Routy on 06/03/12 at 07:53:33

I have emails from my best friend that took his '06 S40 w/ 4K miles to a shop in Ca for repair and service,.....$360 worth,.....$75 of that was just to change the oil,... no filter change. Only problem was, no one put any oil back in it.
Anybody care to guess how many miles it went till it seized up ?
Most of the miles were on a freeway at speed.

Title: Re: How many miles will an S40 run w/o any oil in
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/03/12 at 08:00:31

12.4

When I am working on an engine & the oil is out of it & Will be out of it till Im done, like the stuff Ive been doing on mine, I put a note on it, I used a piece of duct tape with "No OIl" wrapped on the iggy switch. I put notes on a steering wheel when I have several things going on on a car. Tighten this, adjust that, stuff like that,. In fact, writing yourself a "work Order" before starting in can be a big benefit. Check things off.

I had many responsibilities & was hurried & harried by the bosses at a job. I was the mechanic, maintaining about 6 oilfield trucks, I did the bodywork, drove trucks, worked in the field, & I forgot to add oil after replaced the bearings & seals & brakes on a wheel hub on an 18 wheeler type tractor,,Watching it develop an unnatural wobble & fly off as I brought the speed down to about 30 was almost a heart stopper..Fixing That was a Big Hassle..

Title: Re: How many miles will an S40 run w/o any oil in
Post by LANCER on 06/03/12 at 08:05:21

6.9

Title: Re: How many miles will an S40 run w/o any oil in
Post by splash07 on 06/03/12 at 08:22:10

im a sceptic so......3.2

Title: Re: How many miles will an S40 run w/o any oil in
Post by 360k+ on 06/03/12 at 08:45:23

23.846 miles exactly!

JOG, good idea about the note on the iggy. I had a friend who was changing his oil on his Yamaha, and got a phone call right before adding the new oil. When he came back out of the house, he hopped on the bike and went for a test ride. Then getting back home, rode the bike into his garage and saw the new quarts of unopened oil still sitting on his workbench - lol.

Routy, did he say what shop he went to? I want to make sure I steer wayyy clear of that one.

Title: Re: How many miles will an S40 run w/o any oil in
Post by Routy on 06/03/12 at 08:52:39

Here is a series of emails, in his own words, C&P'd
Jog is the wimnner here !
-----------------------------------------------------------------

I drove it home from Salida, about 10 miles, then one trip to the bank about four blocks, then the day it blew, maybe four miles. So say 15 miles or so. I'm lucky it didn't seize up on the freeway coming home from Salida!
-Dale
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Rich poelstra <rjsfishin@live.com>
To: Dale Gillespie <fishwishr@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 3, 2012 6:52 AM
Subject: RE: Sunday

Bout how many miles 4 she blu ?? I got to report that on the forum !

You you should buy a "Harley" !

Rich

Sunday[ch8207]

6:46 AM Reply [ch9660]
Dale Gillespie

To Rich poelstra

Nope. I didn't hear any unusual noise 'til seconds before it seized. Then a squealing sound that caught my attention real quick. And I didn't notice any bluing on the pipe. No oil burning, either, since there was no oil to burn. I know you and your bro love these S40s but for the few miles I've put on this one, I sure have my headaches (Most with things that aren't the bike's fault):

By the way, Craig was here when Tommy came by and witnessed everything he said. I just don't want to keep this bike any more. But we'll see how this latest issue plays out.
-Dale

From: Rich poelstra <rjsfishin@live.com>
To: Dale Gillespie <fishwishr@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 3, 2012 6:19 AM
Subject: RE: Saturday
You probably don't want to talk about that bike anymore, but I am so dam curious about all that took place there !
Such a shame, because the engine/trans in these bike are know to be near indestructible w/ even minimal care.
But,....if no oil was put back in it, how in thee hell did it run that far ? About how many miles would you guess-tamate ?
And how in the hell did you not hear that something was amiss ? It seems like before it blew, it would have been one noisy
rattlin bucket of bolts !
And w/o oil, how hot did it get before it seized ? Is the header pipe solid blue,......engine smokin etc ?

If it really had no oil put back in, that motor is one tough Umbrae !! I'm keepin mine !

You know I rode the bike home from Salida on Wednesday and been fighting the battery ever since. Got a free replacement battery from NorCal and that's now fine.
Fired up the bike and drove down to MickeyD's in town near us and had a couple of those $1 sandwiches. Best deal in town! Then fired it up and headed east on 120. I got past Jack Tone Rd and it froze up on me! It flat would not turn over and if not for the clutch it would have stopped dead in the road. I pushed the darn thing for half a mile then gave up, called John and he came and towed me home. I checked the oil window and there was no oil. And it hadn't dripped any nor smoked any. THE DUMMY MECHANIC DIDN'T PUT ANY OIL IN!! I called the shop when I got in and Tommy the owner said he'd come right over. And he did. He was very concerned. So he's going to try to find a salvaged motor/tranny in good condition and upon my approval will put the new motor in and warranty it for me as long as I own the bike. All this is IF he sees that his man (a new young fella just out of WyoTech) didn't put oil in it. He says his shop has full surveillance and he can probably tell whether he did or not. He said he'd call ASAP and get me in and out in a hurry. And that he or another experienced guy he has will do the work. I told him I didn't want the same guy again and he said he'd be gone anyway. So that's where it stands now. I hope he does as he says, and he DID come right over on his busiest day of the week to see the bike.

Dale

Title: Re: How many miles will an S40 run w/o any oil in
Post by Greg on 06/03/12 at 08:54:05

I hate to admit it, but I forgot to put oil in a customer's truck. I was an auto mechanic in a previous life. Pull in a customer's truck for inspection, alignment, and maintenance. I drained the oil and got hung up replacing ball joints. Wrapped it all up and pulled it over to the alignment machine and it was making a whole lotta noise. Yeah, I forgot the oil. I think that was my first real life learning experience as an adult. It never happened again. However I did forget to bleed the front brakes on a car after replacing the pads. I couldn't stop as I was backing out of the stall. I crashed into another car in the garage. The dealership was not impressed!

Title: Re: How many miles will an S40 run w/o any oil in
Post by Routy on 06/03/12 at 09:10:21

Quote:
Routy, did he say what shop he went to? I want to make sure I steer wayyy clear of that one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
He said it was kind of a Hawg type shop in Salida Ca,......

Title: Re: How many miles will an S40 run w/o any oil in
Post by 360k+ on 06/03/12 at 09:15:24

Routy, Salida is only 40 miles from home. Did he say it was Full Throttle motorcycle shop? I wouldn't likely go there anyway, but just curious.

Title: Re: How many miles will an S40 run w/o any oil in
Post by FishWisher on 06/03/12 at 09:30:25

Nuts. I was hoping that the motorcycle shop name could remain out of this conversation for now, but since it's here - yes, it was Full Throttle. This shop does mainly Hardleys but they also take others. They have a dyno out front and he does all the super tuning for bikes from the local Hardley dealer. The owner doubtless knows his stuff. His new employee, fresh out of WyoTech, probably not so much.

Now, as Greg said, it isn't hard to overlook a critical item such as OIL. But as per my discussion with the shop owner when he came to my home AT ONCE after I called him, and on his busiest day of the week (Saturday), it's not as much what he breaks as what he fixes. So for now I am giving him the benefit of the doubt and I'd hate to see him crucified here after showing such good character yesterday.

Of course, until my bike is fixed to my satisfaction, his true colors won't be known, but I'll keep Routy posted and he'll likely keep y'all up to date if you're interested how all this plays out. I'm hoping...

Dale

Title: Re: How many miles will an S40 run w/o any oil in
Post by 360k+ on 06/03/12 at 09:35:12

707572797E74170 wrote:

Greg, this and your previous thread about burning yourself multiple times on the hot exhaust are funny, but also cause for concern. Perhaps you should consider an endeavor other than mechanical work; ...say neural surgery, for instance.

Title: Re: How many miles will an S40 run w/o any oil in
Post by Greg on 06/03/12 at 09:37:46

7A7C6F6424282E2F241D0 wrote:

[quote author=707572797E74170 link=1338735214/0#6 date=1338738845]I hate to admit it, but I forgot to put oil in a customer's truck. I was an auto mechanic in a previous life. Pull in a customer's truck for inspection, alignment, and maintenance. I drained the oil and got hung up replacing ball joints. Wrapped it all up and pulled it over to the alignment machine and it was making a whole lotta noise. Yeah, I forgot the oil. I think that was my first real life learning experience as an adult. It never happened again. However I did forget to bleed the front brakes on a car after replacing the pads. I couldn't stop as I was backing out of the stall. I crashed into another car in the garage. The dealership was not impressed!

Title: Re: How many miles will an S40 run w/o any oil in
Post by 360k+ on 06/03/12 at 09:47:58

6C4359427D4359424F582A0 wrote:

Now, as Greg said, it isn't hard to overlook a critical item such as OIL. But as per my discussion with the shop owner when he came to my home AT ONCE after I called him, and on his busiest day of the week (Saturday), it's not as much what he breaks as what he fixes. So for now I am giving him the benefit of the doubt and I'd hate to see him crucified here after showing such good character yesterday.

Dale

Hi Dale, Gary here, up at Lake Don Pedro. Like I say, I probably wouldn't be going to a Harley shop anyway, as I no longer own any. And I do understand that sh*t does and will happen. In fact, I kinda feel sorry for the young guy being he was getting his start and all.

Shop name is a closed item, but I would be interested in the resolution because I have heard of drain plugs falling out, and such.

Title: Re: How many miles will an S40 run w/o any oil in
Post by Serowbot on 06/03/12 at 10:11:03

Well,.. brain farts do happen,... the shop owners resolution sounds fare...

Hope it all works out... ;)...

Title: Re: How many miles will an S40 run w/o any oil in
Post by arteacher on 06/03/12 at 15:06:11

595C5B50575D3E0 wrote:

The closest I ever came to that (aside from sending burgers out without the meat while at my first job ever at A&W), was during an oil change on my Land Cruiser, which took 8 L of oil, was to forget to put the drain plug in, and pour all 8 L of synthetic through the motor into the drain pan. Cost me $64 for that mistake. :-[

Title: Re: How many miles will an S40 run w/o any oil in
Post by Dave on 06/03/12 at 19:04:17

153A203B043A203B3621530 wrote:

Nuts. I was hoping that the motorcycle shop name could remain out of this conversation for now, but since it's here - yes, it was Full Throttle.

As long as the owner makes it right - this could be good advertising for them. Mistakes happen at any business.....it is up to them to make it right if they want to get a good reputation and stay in business long term.

Title: Re: How many miles will an S40 run w/o any oil in
Post by FishWisher on 06/06/12 at 09:43:01

An update...

As a freak accident of nature, this shop has an '07 S40 on the showroom floor (he sells used Hardleys, mostly) that belongs to his main mechanic's mother. It has been there for months. I wouldn't pick the color (blue) myself, but it has only 750 miles on it.

I asked him about making a deal with me on that bike and just take my bike himself to repair and sell. I told him I'd be willing to pay a little extra since it's a year newer and has so few miles. He just got back to me and says he thinks he has a deal with the owner. It looks like I'll pay about $550 difference, and I'm fine with that. And he'll eat all the DMV fees whatever they are.

Of course it's only talk so far. But hopefully this deal will go through and I'll be cruising on a newer, bluer Suzy! :D And he'll have proven that he's an honest dealer who makes mistakes right!

I'll keep ya posted.

Title: Re: How many miles will an S40 run w/o any oil in
Post by RidgeRunner13 on 06/06/12 at 09:49:33

If you get it, check the oil before you leave..... ::) ;D ;D 8-)

Title: Re: How many miles will an S40 run w/o any oil in
Post by teabowl13 on 06/06/12 at 10:06:19

SO... I'm guessing this is why you posted the question about buying a new motor... sounds like a good reason to need one! And probably easier and less expensive than trying to piece-meal the old one back together.
Either way, it seems like it's the shop's problem now, and they should pay for it and do the work to make it right. I sure hope it works out for you guys...
Good Luck!

Title: Re: How many miles will an S40 run w/o any oil in
Post by 360k+ on 06/06/12 at 10:47:09

I'd jump on the '07 (er, so to speak). You get a nearly new bike, mileage wise, and wipe out all the motor issues in the process. Make sure the break-in service was done, or do it right away. The first one is the most important.

Title: Re: How many miles will an S40 run w/o any oil in
Post by teabowl13 on 06/06/12 at 10:50:49

Yeah, that sounds like a good deal for sure, and it also sounds like he's willing to do the right thing for you, which is very good. This will also get you back on the road right away, rather than waiting for them to re-build your original bike.
Cheers!

Title: Re: How many miles will an S40 run w/o any oil in
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/06/12 at 14:22:14

Dont like the color? Swap the painted bits./

Title: Re: How many miles will an S40 run w/o any oil in
Post by FishWisher on 06/09/12 at 07:42:56

All's well that ends well! And this ended pretty darn well.

Tommy, owner of Full Throttle Motorcycles in Salida, Ca, mainly a Hardley tuning/repair shop, sold me the '07 Suzy S40 w/740 miles on it that he had on consignment for $600 - and the remains of my '06 Suzy his mechanic ruined by not putting oil in the crankcase.

Tommy bent over backwards to make this deal with me and as his customer I am more than pleased with his concern and willingness to make a mistake on his shop's part right.

My '06 had around 4500 miles on it. The $600 was for the move up one year and much less mileage of the '07. And the new bike runs like a fine watch. Tommy's shop put my windshield, bags and mirrors on the new bike, too.

Incidentally, the "mechanic" fresh out of WyoTech who screwed up my old Suzy was dismissed. Tommy wants to run a tight shop and my experience is that he does!

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s8/FishWisher/2007%20Suzy/2012-6-8cNewerbluer08Suzy.jpg

Title: Re: How many miles will an S40 run w/o any oil in
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/09/12 at 08:35:00

I wouldnt be afraid to go back, but,paying someone to do an oil change? Naaah,, they dont own it & they arent studying it, making sure everything is Just So. Doing basic maintenance is when we spot the little things that need done, spot O rust here or there, detail stuff that a paid mechanic isnt gonna be looking for, they want to do the oil change & go,, & thats how they put beans on the table, so theyre trying to go quickly. You mite take the time to dab that last bit of oil out of the filter pocket, he wont,
That thing is a good lookin machine, you cam out smellin like a rose,
you can sell your old one & not lose a dime, or keep it, find an engine, & sell it & come out way ahead. Or, make a rat or bobber out of it.
You pretty much scored,,

Title: Re: How many miles will an S40 run w/o any oil in
Post by verslagen1 on 06/09/12 at 09:03:05

6C4359427D4359424F582A0 wrote:

Tommy, owner of Full Throttle Motorcycles in Salida, Ca, mainly a Hardley tuning/repair shop, sold me the '07 Suzy S40 w/740 miles on it that he had on consignment for $600 - and the remains of my '06 Suzy his mechanic ruined by not putting oil in the crankcase.

That one's a winner.
too bad it's way up north from me.

Title: Re: How many miles will an S40 run w/o any oil in
Post by FishWisher on 06/10/12 at 12:20:46

342B2D2A3730013101392B276C5E0 wrote:

I wouldnt be afraid to go back, but,paying someone to do an oil change? Naaah,,...

Well, it was an (incomplete) oil change that led to the seizure, but I didn't take the bike to the shop for an oil change. I took it in because it was running so badly, and the infamous oil change was a part of that repair.

That whole story, which began over a year ago, is here if you're interested:
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1299112753/0#0

After all is said and done, I love a happy ending! :)

Title: Re: How many miles will an S40 run w/o any oil in
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/10/12 at 13:35:56

Pretty long saga, but, as you say, alls well that ends well.. Glad youre on the road again.

Title: Re: How many miles will an S40 run w/o any oil in
Post by 360k+ on 06/10/12 at 21:24:17

One thing that comes to mind about this whole thing is... any of us who are Savage versed would have looked at the oil level in the window after changing it, and before sending the bike out. Not just as a safety check, but the standard procedure of topping oil off is based on the window level, at least it is for me. I say that because I just completed my 7500 mile service, and was careful to check the level after running the motor up a few minutes to fill the filter cavity. The person doing the maintenance on FishWisher's ride seemed not to have a clue about how to check oil level on this particular bike. In fact, I would venture to say that he didn't know there was such a window.

I'm glad this ended well and to FishWisher's satisfaction - that's great, but I am also aware of many other situations don't end well, and that comes from both personal experience as well as other riders I've known. This was a simple job that resulted in a ruined motor. Imagine a partial engine tear down, or a rebuild, where the motor seizes a year later??? I'm not vilifying the shop; sh!t happens as we all know, but if I were manager, I'd recognize that procedures need to altered to catch such problems.