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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1323582921 Message started by teabowl13 on 12/10/11 at 21:55:20 |
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Title: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by teabowl13 on 12/10/11 at 21:55:20 Before I push the POST button on all of this, I want to say THANK YOU and give everyone here on this forum a huge round of applause. Nearly very single detail of this build is based on something that at least one if not several of you guys have figured out already and been generous enough to post. I can't tell you how many hours I have spent pouring over the tech pages, and the various build threads and getting really great answers to my NOOB questions. MotoBuddah, Verslaggen, and RpnSht deserve special thanks for your help and inspiration. Cheers guys! ;) HI! I've gotten in way over my head here, and I like it! It all started with an innocent conversation. My friend, Jay, who has been a client of mine for 12 years or so... (I'm a tattoo artist...) came to me this Fall to start a rather large project that will carry us through the Winter. For all the years I've known him, he's been working on bikes and hot rods. Mostly bikes. He's a painter at Stone's Custom Cycles in Massachusetts. http://www.stones-custom.com/ He's their cust paint guy, but there are only 4 full time guys there, so he's had his hands in everything. He's spent most of his years working on Harley projects, but more recently he's been interested in vintage bikes and cafe bikes. He's been doing a few projects and some small builds for friends on the side, and he tells me he's excited to do more. He gets to do a lot of this stuff in the winter, when the shop slows down, and he's got access to all of their stuff. As for me, I got married recently, and my wife and I have a gorgeous daughter who just turned two. As you can imagine, a couple of years ago I whittled my bike meager collection (including a Yamaha 250 cafe project that I knew would never get off the ground..) down to the most sensible and practical thing I could get; a 1992 Nighthawk 750. Don't get me wrong, I love the bike. It's bullet proof and will go anywhere I want to go, but I have it outfitted mainly for touring and two-up camping trips, and while it's perfect for that, it's just not as awesome for those Sunday afternoon blasts around the lakes... So the question was obvious? Hey Jay... Wanna TRADE? We started talking about bikes and what to build. I wanted something small and more fun around town. I really wanted a single. Something super-simple, and something a little unique. He wanted to build me a CB350, but that didn't really jazz me up at all. We started looking around and thinking about it... Turns out a buddy of his had gotten a GS550 and an old '94 Savage a couple of years ago for just $500, and he'd sell us either of them for the $250 he had in it. Jay wanted to work up the 550, and I can't blame him, it would make a nice ride, but I really didn't want another 4 cylinder; I wanted something REALLY different from my nighthawk, so I got to thinking about the Savage and poking around on the internets.... http://p1.bikepics.com/2011/12/10/bikepics-2314657-full.jpg I found the RYCA site and was amazed at what they were doing with the Savage. I knew I liked the motor, but I really didn't want a cruiser or any kind of a bobber. I figured we'd have to find another old bike frame to squeeze that motor into, but RYCA prooved us wrong... Maybe we could do something with our Savage after all? I was really hooked on something more vintage looking than the RYCA bike: Norton Manx, Vincent, etc... something like that. The RYCA kit is a great Cafe, but a bit too modern for me. Then I found this picture... http://p1.bikepics.com/2011/12/10/bikepics-2314636-full.jpg This thing is amazing, And it's almost entirely stock! (If you know this bike, then you'll notice that I photoshopped the seat a little bit... the real one is a bit lower profile.) I showed the RYCA site and the picture above to Jay, and we both agreed that we had found our winter project. Between the British one and the RYCA bike we were going to build something pretty cool out of this old Savage. OFF TO FLEABAY!! I still had the old 1969 Suzuki T350 tank I had bought for the 250 Yamaha that was never to be (I loved the shape of it, and the color is great too) So we decided to use it... http://p1.bikepics.com/2011/12/10/bikepics-2314658-full.jpg We'll cram it on there somehow... I decided I wanted clubman's instead of clip-ons, so I found a bar from a new Triumph Bonnie. Factory take-off for $35, and I decided that I wanted one of those old headlights with the speedo mounted inside, and I found one from a 1969-70-ish Hodaka Ace 100; complete with the speedo!! (It's just the bucket in the photo below, but you get the idea...) http://p1.bikepics.com/2011/12/11/bikepics-2314670-full.jpg http://p1.bikepics.com/2011/12/10/bikepics-2314665-full.jpg 13" New-old-stock Red Wing shocks from the '70's http://p1.bikepics.com/2011/12/10/bikepics-2314661-full.jpg They look pretty hot!! especially with the 18" Akront rim all laced up and ready to go... We decided that 18"wheels front and back were a must for the right vintage feel, so i found two rims on Fleabay. The front one is still in limbo; waiting for Jay's wheel-pro-friend to get it laced up, but the back is done! (Turns out, the swingarm cross brace will have to be re-worked to fit the Kenda tire. It's a Kenda Challenger, which I got because the one's RYCA uses don't come in an 18" for the front, but the rear is a 90 instead of a 70, so it's just a smidge too tall... It's Jay's problem; he's the welder... more on that later.) We decided that to get the right period look, we needed chrome fenders. The front was pretty easy; from a 1972 Kawasaki S1 (sorry, no picture right now... later...) For the rear, I decided to look at larger front fenders, figuring I'd turn one around backwards and use it that way. Turns out that the front wheel on a 1977 Goldwing runs the same size tire as I'm running in the rear, and the fender is pretty sweet! With a 1960's BSA rocket taillight mounted back there it'll look something sorta-like this... http://p1.bikepics.com/2011/12/10/bikepics-2314666-full.jpg Jay, holding it up for some guess-work... http://p1.bikepics.com/2011/12/10/bikepics-2314667-full.jpg http://p1.bikepics.com/2011/12/10/bikepics-2314669-full.jpg At this point, we've got enough going on that I decide to work out a fresh concept drawing, so here's the master plan! (I know, it's pretty rough, especially coming from a guy with a college degree for drawring...) http://p1.bikepics.com/2011/12/07/bikepics-2312643-full.jpg The rear fender will get mounted fixed to the swingarm; bobber style. We decided this would look a little more Buck Rogers, and be easier for Jay to fabricate that trying to create an entire rear sub-frame from scratch... It'll get a Dyna muffler, a Mini battery of some sort; somehow mounted behind the gear-box in the charcoal-cannister-holder-mc-thing-a-ma-jiggy. A K&N cone filter ($15 used on Fleabay) And an 18/47 chain conversion... With the electricals all tucked neatly under the seat; the whole rear area behind the cylinder will be completely open. I find this VERY EXCITING! Jay is going to fabricate a custom seat pan, and I have another client here in Portland who has offered to do the upholstery once we have the foam figured out and carved... That'll be a while yet. SPEAKING OF WELDING... So Jay sets to work and he sends me this crappy photo... http://p1.bikepics.com/2011/12/11/bikepics-2314671-full.jpg And I think, "Hmmm... that's strange, something's missing... what could that be?" Oh, Don't worry says Jay, that's just the BACKBONE OF THE FRAME... Turns out he decided that rather than to have to cut up and re-weld the tank to get it to fit the frame, it would be easier to get the frame to fit the tank... http://p1.bikepics.com/2011/12/10/bikepics-2314659-full.jpg http://p1.bikepics.com/2011/12/10/bikepics-2314660-full.jpg Add in some rails to hold the seat pan... http://p1.bikepics.com/2011/12/10/bikepics-2314662-full.jpg http://p1.bikepics.com/2011/12/10/bikepics-2314664-full.jpg And then add the tank support and the tail piece!! http://p1.bikepics.com/2011/12/10/bikepics-2314663-full.jpg This thing's got a long way to go, and a lot may change along the way, but the first snows haven't even really gotten here yet, and there's along winter ahead of us, so we have plenty of time!! You say you can't wait to see what's next? Well, ME NEITHER! ;D |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by splash07 on 12/10/11 at 22:27:56 Really awesome stuff so far. Cant wait to see where it all goes. Keep it up. |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by sbaugz on 12/11/11 at 06:07:18 Looks awesome! |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by MotoBuddha on 12/11/11 at 06:42:46 Another interesting build to follow. |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by dasch on 12/11/11 at 07:29:05 Yeah!!! Very cool!! Let us know. Akront rims and which spokes?? Custom made job or?? |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by verslagen1 on 12/11/11 at 09:01:15 Looks to me like the tank invades the stock seat location by a bit. So you might need some extra space behind, which I would have liked anyway. I think I would have formed the seat rail from one continuous tube, cutting the seat horns to fit. matches what I've seen done with the cb's. and I think it's pretty slick. I'm interested in the front fender, is the mount for it doubling as a fork brace? and how does it compare to the stock fender? |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by sbaugz on 12/11/11 at 10:15:57 how about hammering in some knee dents in that tank? |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by teabowl13 on 12/11/11 at 10:53:37 667562637C7177757E21100 wrote:
- Yes, the tank is about 2-3" longer than the stock tank, but I like the looks of it. I don't mind sitting farther back on the seat; I'm 6' tall and all legs, so I would be anyway. When I did the concept drawing above, I actually used a photo of one of the RYCA bikes and traced it to get the same geometry. The seat actually matches the RYCA seat pretty much to a T except that it's a few inches shorter to accommodate the tank. That said, I was hoping to SEE it in person before he welded up the rear bits, just to be sure... -I too had pictured the rear loop being visually continuous, as I have in the drawing, and what he has welded up right there seems pretty rough, so I need to get together with him to see what his plan for all that is.... I'm interested in the front fender as well. I can try to post up a picture, but I didn't take one when I had the chance. It doesn't have a fork brace, but I've got my eye on one on Fleabay... I'll keep things updated as I can. Thanks for your input! |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by teabowl13 on 12/11/11 at 10:56:16 6E7F7C687A671D0 wrote:
If the tank was wide, I would definitely be thinking about that. I love the Yamaha tank on the Savage Scrambler (still very sad that project never got finished...) BUT, that T350 tank is really quite narrow when you see it on the frame, and I think it looks pretty perfect just the way it is. We may consider it later on as the whole thing comes together. It is a work in progress after all... |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by teabowl13 on 12/11/11 at 11:03:16 626775656E060 wrote:
Oh yeah, I got the rims on Fleabay. Got a great deal on one, paid a little too much for the other one, but it balanced out. Still less than half of what new ones would have been. I really wanted to keep this looking very 1960's and also more like a rider than a show bike, so I ordered Chrome spokes from Vietnam over Ebay. I was skeptical, but I asked around and more than one person recommended the seller. They worked well. The wheel was laced on by a guy in Mass that Jay works with. He's been lacing up wheels for 30 years, so he knew what he was doing. Not something I wanted to leave to chance. I think the spokes were about $40 shipped, and he laced it up for $50; but that's a friends and family price he gave to Jay... It's good to have friends... We still need to get some measurements for the front wheel, then we can order spokes and get that one mounted. One thing at a time! |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by verslagen1 on 12/11/11 at 12:17:04 59686C6F627A613C3E0D0 wrote:
You might ask around if it's intended to serve as a fork brace. I know the cb fender mount is. |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by scubachef on 12/11/11 at 12:24:20 I really love the look of that tank. the concept bike looks great, can't wait to see it in reality. awesome idea, looking forward to following the build. |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by RpNSht on 12/11/11 at 12:33:26 this is going to be awesome. i cant wait to see it finished. rad! i need a new tattoo artist too, too bad youre not in ca then we could talk bikes over ink! |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by teabowl13 on 12/11/11 at 17:52:32 Thanks again, Verslagen! I don't know if the front fender I have is intended to double as a brace or not. I rather doubt it; it doesn't seem that substantial, but I will look into it. I know I am going to want to stiffen up the front end for sure. I got a Superbrace for my Nighthawk, and it made a world of difference, especially up here in Maine, where the roads get pretty rough with pot-holes and frost heaves... |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by sbaugz on 12/11/11 at 17:54:15 if you haven't already, you should stroll over to www.dotheton.com and post up some pics there. This bike would go over very well on that forum and there is tons and tons of help and useful info there too. |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by teabowl13 on 12/11/11 at 17:55:01 263934343D32393038232225243F253F510 wrote:
HA! I will actually be coming to LA in March to do a painting workshop at Memoir Tattoo with Shawn Barber and Kim Saigh and those guys... I've had daydreams that I get to ship my finished bike out there for the trip. I'll let you know if that works out.... |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by RpNSht on 12/11/11 at 18:26:30 615054575A42590406350 wrote:
HA! I will actually be coming to LA in March to do a painting workshop at Memoir Tattoo with Shawn Barber and Kim Saigh and those guys... I've had daydreams that I get to ship my finished bike out there for the trip. I'll let you know if that works out.... [/quote] no way! pm a link to your work!!! |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by RpNSht on 12/11/11 at 18:34:22 714044474A52491416250 wrote:
this may be a good reference for the loop behind the seat: http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee419/rpnsht/honda-cream-cr.jpg |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by teabowl13 on 12/12/11 at 06:15:01 Thanks Rpn! That's almost exactly the kind of thing I was picturing; maybe a little lower profile; not quite so duck-tailed, but YES definitely the idea. It's a little hard working out the details. Jay is working on this thing two hours away from me in Mass. I was supposed to go down today and work on it with him, but family stuff came up and I couldn't go. Not sure when I'll be able to get back with the holidays coming up fast, but we shall see... |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by mpescatori on 12/12/11 at 09:59:10 706F62626B646F666E75747372697369070 wrote:
this may be a good reference for the loop behind the seat: http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee419/rpnsht/honda-cream-cr.jpg[/quote] That's not only a very nice café racer I see, it is a VERRRY nice front drum brake !!! :) Now, drum brakes want specific forks, so... ... can anyone pleeeze help me understand which size whatevers i'm supposed to be aware of in order to understand which forks are compatible to the Savage frame with the least minimum modifications? ;) Thanks in advance |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by teabowl13 on 12/12/11 at 11:24:52 4A57425444465348554E270 wrote:
this may be a good reference for the loop behind the seat: http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee419/rpnsht/honda-cream-cr.jpg[/quote] That's not only a very nice café racer I see, it is a VERRRY nice front drum brake !!! :) Now, drum brakes want specific forks, so... ... can anyone pleeeze help me understand which size whatevers i'm supposed to be aware of in order to understand which forks are compatible to the Savage frame with the least minimum modifications? ;) Thanks in advance[/quote] It is sexy for sure, but I am not the one to ask about a thing like that! In my head full of fantasies, I imagine that the easiest way to do this would be to look for a complete front end that meets your needs, and also has a head-stem that is as close as possible to the size of the stock savage stem. I've seen things where guys have had a machinist alter, or replace the headstem from one bike to another, but that's way out of my league, and not something I plan to tackle with this bike. I imagine an old-fashioned drum brake, like you want, would be even harder to come by; assuming you're more likely to find a modern bike front end that matches the Savage's modern front end.... Good Luck! |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by verslagen1 on 12/12/11 at 11:38:34 There's a vintage racing class in the netherlands that requires drum brakes. I would go there for inspiration and advice as they'll have the most experience in fitting a drum brake to any fork. But other than that, I would look for a wheel/brake that fit the axle. most will be thin enough to slip into the savage. And I would look at the option of fitting the whole front end. About the only trouble you'll have is the frame stops and of course the spindle. All of the GS bikes (at least from 500 up) have the same spindle dimensions. And the GR's have a similar offset. |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by teabowl13 on 12/13/11 at 10:49:04 6D727F7F7679727B7368696E6F746E741A0 wrote:
Yeah, I had a conversation with Jay last night about that rear frame loop. He's on the same page with me now... I'm really looking forward to seeing what it looks like in finished form. ;D |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by teabowl13 on 12/13/11 at 11:01:19 BY THE WAY, I've posted several questions on the forum so far about various aspects of this build, and I thought it would be a good idea to post a few links to those threads here, just to keep everything in one place (sorta..) Forgive me if this is repetitive, but this is here for anyone who might have missed these.... Thinking about getting my brake rotor drilled... still undecided; http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1322838789 This turned out to be a really helpful discussion about CHAIN CONVERSION: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1321556481 Mini Lithium-Ion battery discussion... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1323457929 That's all I can think of right now that's important... I'll add others later if need be. |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by teabowl13 on 12/14/11 at 05:34:16 6F707D7D747B7079716A6B6C6D766C76180 wrote:
this may be a good reference for the loop behind the seat: http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee419/rpnsht/honda-cream-cr.jpg[/quote] I also like he long shape of this tank; it really makes the bike look more speedy. I'm thinking my slightly longer T350 tank will have a similar feel.. |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by dasch on 12/14/11 at 10:52:14 This is going to be cool!!!! Can you please post the name/website/email or whatever you got for the Vietnamese manufacturer of spokes?? I like this a lot! |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by teabowl13 on 12/14/11 at 19:36:15 4441534348200 wrote:
THANKS MAN! I got the spokes on Fleabay from these guys: http://stores.ebay.com/Terry-Motorcycle-Spareparts/_i.html?_nkw=spokes&submit=Search&_sid=653621655 They are nothing fancy; just regular spokes, but much less expensive than stainless. The other thing I like about them is that they list their spokes by LENGTH, not bike model, and they have just about any length you might need, and that's important when you're doing something that's DEFINITELY NOT STOCK. It's worth noting that I learned a lot about spokes last month, and they are not as simple as they may seem; just getting the right length isn't always enough; the head needs to be just right, and the bend needs to be just right; often the right and left side spokes from the same wheel are just ever so slightly different... If you look at the stainless spokes RYCA sells; you'll notice there's a very slight difference in the bend of the angle at the head of the spoke. The ones I got were just a 90 degree bend; all alike. The guy building my wheel said they work just fine, and they ARE SAFE but that they were kind of a pain for him to install; and this guys been lacing wheels since the 1960's. I will buy my spokes from them again; (just waiting on a measurement for the front spokes) and I've gotten a couple of other things there as well. Cheap stuff, but for someone selling on Fleabay coming from Vietnam, they seem to be pretty solid. |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by teabowl13 on 12/14/11 at 19:57:32 A Few Notes on the FINISH AND COLOR: Since I didn't get to go down and actually work on this thing this past weekend... >:( I wanted to post some thoughts about color... From the beginning we wanted something that was going to look really vintage; not brand-new vintage, but really vintage. A lot of the parts we are getting are used, and they show it, and they will likely stay that way. It's no rat bike, though. Everything is still in pretty good condition, just not museum quality. On that note; we've gone back and forth a little, but for the most part we decided at the very beginning to keep the tank as I found it. It's a terrific blue-green color, with just a hint of subtle sun-fading across the top, a few small scratches and one small ding. When I looked on Flea-bay for the correct vintage emblems, I actually bought ones on purpose that are a little beaten up, even though I found some brand new reproduction ones for close to the same price. McMillan's frame color poll thread had me thinking about painting the frame; We'd started out thinking just black, but seeing now all the work that will be going into it; all the welding and grinding, and re-cutting the swingarm brace and etc., I decided we might as well paint the whole darn thing by the time it's done anyway. We still want something pretty vintage looking; so we are thinking about doing a deep British racing green. Something that from a distance would read as black, but show its true color upon a closer look. What do ya think? |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by PerrydaSavage on 12/15/11 at 00:41:03 I say GO FOR IT!! Can't wait to see the finished product! 8-) |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by RpNSht on 12/15/11 at 19:09:46 one of two colors for a frame other than black: http://www.staintune.com.au/exhausts/ducati/images/Ducati%20Paul%20Smart.jpg |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by verslagen1 on 12/15/11 at 20:05:05 332C212128272C252D363730312A302A440 wrote:
HA! I will actually be coming to LA in March to do a painting workshop at Memoir Tattoo with Shawn Barber and Kim Saigh and those guys... I've had daydreams that I get to ship my finished bike out there for the trip. I'll let you know if that works out.... [/quote] no way! pm a link to your work!!![/quote] You'll have to let us know when you're down here so we can do a get together. |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by LostArtist on 12/15/11 at 21:10:59 that's looking pretty cool man! |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by teabowl13 on 12/16/11 at 07:08:39 352631302F2224262D72430 wrote:
HA! I will actually be coming to LA in March to do a painting workshop at Memoir Tattoo with Shawn Barber and Kim Saigh and those guys... I've had daydreams that I get to ship my finished bike out there for the trip. I'll let you know if that works out.... [/quote] no way! pm a link to your work!!![/quote] You'll have to let us know when you're down here so we can do a get together.[/quote] It'll be March: My Painting workshop is scheduled for the weekend of the 24th. It'll be a short trip, and I'll be super-busy, but since you're BOTH down there, we'll have to meet up for a beer or some tacos, or a bowl of cereal somewhere, or whatever y'all SoCal types are doing these days... (I just can't keep up...) ;D I sent Rpn' a PM, but it's not top secret. If you want to see what I do... http://www.chrisdingwell.com/ or, the ever popular FaceFudge.... http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=534840785&ref=tn_tnmn chris@chrisdingwell.com... |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by JohnBoy on 12/17/11 at 00:07:31 Any idea of the capacity of the tank? |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by teabowl13 on 12/17/11 at 06:45:04 7C595E5874594F360 wrote:
Yeah, the tank is 3.5 Gallons, or somewhere in there. I looked it when I looked up the specs for the bike: 1969 Suzuki T350. I chose it because I mostly wanted a truly vintage looking tank, and I had it lying around, so it was already paid for! I bought it over 3 years ago to put on a Yamaha 250 that I was going to cafe at the time, but my schedule and lack of any real skills totally killed that dream, so it was just hanging around my garage taunting me! It has the correct period gas cap, and petcock. I just needed to find the badges, which wasn't too hard on Fleabay. |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by teabowl13 on 12/22/11 at 13:54:44 OK, I've definitely lost my mind now.... Anyone want to chime in? http://p1.bikepics.com/2011/12/22/bikepics-2320027-full.jpg |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by EJID on 12/22/11 at 14:01:56 68595D5E534B500D0F3C0 wrote:
Switching to a mono-shock swingarm like that won't flow very well with the VINTAGE ROADSTER look that you were after. But, a mono-shock swingarm like that on a bobber would look pretty sweet...kinda like the one that truckinduc made for his Savage. (Even though he did many more items to make his Savage look/perform more like a street-fighter rather than a cruiser/bobber) |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by RpNSht on 12/22/11 at 19:13:57 yes i agree. the mono wouldnt fit the look youre after BUT mono-shocks are soooooo sweat. my next build will be one for sure. here are a few mono-shocks ive found..different bike but the ideas can still be riffed on: http://www.joewiseguy.com/pittboss.html http://www.ebay.com/itm/XS650-swingarm-under-braced-intallation-service-2-/260743710337?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item3cb5894681 http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1007 67686B66220 wrote:
Switching to a mono-shock swingarm like that won't flow very well with the VINTAGE ROADSTER look that you were after. But, a mono-shock swingarm like that on a bobber would look pretty sweet...kinda like the one that truckinduc made for his Savage. (Even though he did many more items to make his Savage look/perform more like a street-fighter rather than a cruiser/bobber) [/quote] |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by RpNSht on 12/22/11 at 19:19:16 http://www.customfighters.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26316 - that bike cray 636C6F62260 wrote:
Switching to a mono-shock swingarm like that won't flow very well with the VINTAGE ROADSTER look that you were after. But, a mono-shock swingarm like that on a bobber would look pretty sweet...kinda like the one that truckinduc made for his Savage. (Even though he did many more items to make his Savage look/perform more like a street-fighter rather than a cruiser/bobber) [/quote] |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by teabowl13 on 12/22/11 at 21:28:28 If I go this route; and that's a big "IF" you're right, it won't be very vintage. But I'm not trying to pretend that this bike is anything it's not. I just want it to be the best bike it can be. On of the things that bugs me looking at pictures of the RYCA bikes is the way that the rear shocks stick out to the sides; especially on the left where it is posted WAY out to clear the belt drive. Everything else about the bike is SO very slim, that this bit seems awkward to me, and a bit out of place. Since this bike is going to have so much open space in the rear part of the frame, I seem to have plenty of room to work with. The oly thing I really don't know is how to come up with a shock that would actually work. I've been looking at a CBR600 shock; it's only 11.5" eye to eye, so it's short enough to fit; but the geometry of my frame would be so different than a stock CBR that it's kind of impossible to tell if the shock will actually do the job it needs too. It might squash right down the minute I sit on it, or it might be a total hard tail. :-X Figuring out all the math is way beyond me, so Jay and I are gonna talk about it after the holidays, and we'll see whether it makes sense then. For now it's just Pie-in-the-Sky, but it's fun to draw up on a slow day at work.... ;D |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by verslagen1 on 12/22/11 at 22:27:04 There was a vincent with a soft tail config. The shock were at the back bone and it flexed at the bottom. So if you took your sketch and flipped the bracing to the top and extended it upwards. I can help you with the math. swingarm is 19" axle to pivot shock mt is 15" mt to pivot upper mt is 13" to pivot spring rate is about 100#per inch times 2 times or 200 # per inch at the shock mt. The angle the shock is leaning over will change that too. I'll be glad to look at it once you have the geometry you want. |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by verslagen1 on 12/24/11 at 22:46:34 http://www.untamedvelocity.com/photos/barbermuseum%202006/Barber8.JPG |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by teabowl13 on 12/25/11 at 18:48:25 That's a GORGOEUS Vincent! (an understatement, I know...) And YES, it's a really good way to get a mono-shock into the frame. In fact, as I've looked around at mono-shock conversions on the inter-nerd, and I've seen that most of them are designed basically this way; a large brace comes up above the swingarm, and the shock itself positioned more horizontally. I can't help but assume that smarter people than me (like the nice folks at Vincent Motor Company...) have figured out that this system works better than what I have come up with so far. Yes, I could move the shock up and forward in the frame, but I will run into the carb and filter at some point. Of course, I could turn those out to the side for a more sporting look... but I was also planning to tuck all of my electricals into that upper space... None the less, this has me thinking about some alterations to my drawing that could be fruitful... Either way, the complicated part is figuring out what kind of shock will actually WORK with whatever geometry I figure out (Since I can't aford to spend $1,200 to have the Ohlins R&D team build me something custom...) The other option is to source a shock; say the CBR shock, and then work backwards from there to design a geometry that will suit it. Either way, it ain't easy, but it is fun to think about. And NO, it won't really fit with the "Retro" look I started aiming at, but I don't mind a bit of mish-mash.... Gets complicated, don't it? ;D |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by teabowl13 on 02/11/12 at 07:57:21 NEWEST UPDATE! OK, so it's been a couple of months; Christmas, Winter, Work, all that mess has gotten in the way, but progress is being made... I don't have any new photos to post right now, but as she sits, the bike is now completely stripped down, the frame is all welded together, and fixed up, ready for paint this week we hope! We've decided to go with a deep British Racing green for the frame color, and the headlight bucket; can't wait to see that. We will also be pulling out the Cam chain tensioner and the front brake rotor to ship out to Verslagen for fixing up and drilling out. Thanks Verslagen, you're AWESOME! After much debate and discussion, we've decided to pass on the monoshock idea. While I do think that it could be made to work with the '94 Shadow 600 shock that I have, (and I may still re-visit it at a later date) we both agree that it doesn't fit the idea and aesthetic of the bike we set out to build. We'd be opening up a big can of worms for what may not be any real benefit at all except that we could feel all smug about it if we could pull it off. Not so smug if it didn't work... What Jay is going to do for me is to move the Left Shock mounts inward somewhat so that it doesn't stick out so awkwardly; that was really my main complaint anyway. That will tidy up the rear end and make more sense since we won't need such wide a space for clearing the belt. That's it for now! We still have a long way to go, but there's still lots of Winter up here in the Northeast, so there's plenty of time still to get it on the road by the time we see Spring. Cheers Everyone! ;) |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by teabowl13 on 03/13/12 at 13:42:40 WOW! Finally got to go down to Jay's place and get some work done last weekend. I drove down Saturday night after the kids went to sleep, and woke up to find my bike entirely apart! It's a good thing this Savage goes together easy... http://p1.bikepics.com/2012/03/13/bikepics-2364536-full.jpg First time I'd seen the inside of the motor, and what's visible so far looks brand new! ;D http://p1.bikepics.com/2012/03/13/bikepics-2364538-full.jpg And the rest of it is all over here somewhere.... http://p1.bikepics.com/2012/03/13/bikepics-2364539-full.jpg Swingarm is sitting on the table; Jay modified the center bracing to make more room for the rear tire... Just tacked together for now, and that's a good thing; we found it was a little too tight when we went to put it back together! http://p1.bikepics.com/2012/03/13/bikepics-2364540-full.jpg Here are the shocks sitting next to the Dyna Muffler we were going to use, but Jay found this older muffler on the shelf at his shop, and it was a great price; FREE! so we thought we'd try it. Check out the new Ballistic Lithium Ion Battery sitting there too.... http://p1.bikepics.com/2012/03/13/bikepics-2364541-full.jpg And in the blink of an eye, she's all back together! The new muffler is amazing! Looks like it was made for the bike (It actually sits tighter than it looks here, the header wasn't tightened down, but it'll work) It's the exact size to fit over the outer header pipe, so it makes a super smooth transition. My only fear is that it'll be really loud; it's pretty wide open inside, and that it'll be hard to tune correctly... but it looks too darn cool not to use it.... http://p1.bikepics.com/2012/03/13/bikepics-2364542-full.jpg http://p1.bikepics.com/2012/03/13/bikepics-2364543-full.jpg Footpegs come from a '91 FZR600; not quite the right period, but they bolt on just like all the aftermarket rearsets, and personally I like the way they look a lot better. Besides they were a third the price... Just have to weld a couple of brackets to the frame and she's done. The stock Savage shifter arm is even the exact right size! http://p1.bikepics.com/2012/03/13/bikepics-2364544-full.jpg http://p1.bikepics.com/2012/03/13/bikepics-2364545-full.jpg And here's the battery tucked down into that "what-ever-it-is-you-California-types-get-that-we-don't-need" bracket between the engine and swingarm. It''ll be virtually invisible, as will the wires running up the back of the frame. Hooray! (let's just pray it works... ::)) http://p1.bikepics.com/2012/03/13/bikepics-2364546-full.jpg Gonna have to make room for the petcock... darn, it's a tight fit up here! http://p1.bikepics.com/2012/03/13/bikepics-2364547-full.jpg Getting ready to fiberglass the seat pan!! http://p1.bikepics.com/2012/03/13/bikepics-2364548-full.jpg http://p1.bikepics.com/2012/03/13/bikepics-2364549-full.jpg Jay gives it a nice massage.... http://p1.bikepics.com/2012/03/13/bikepics-2364550-full.jpg And there she is! That'll get cut to shape this week, and mounting bolts added, and hopefully he'll be bringing it to me this weekend to get started on the upholstery! That's my job... http://p1.bikepics.com/2012/03/13/bikepics-2364551-full.jpg http://p1.bikepics.com/2012/03/13/bikepics-2364552-full.jpg OH YEAH! the chain is on... Gonna need to make some sort of delrin slider guard for that swingarm for sure! http://p1.bikepics.com/2012/03/13/bikepics-2364554-full.jpg Fender placed just for photo's sake... The stock bracket will come off, and to hold it up, he'll use two simple rods extending up from a point on the swingarm to where the original bracket's rivet holes are. Here's a few more shots just for fun... http://p1.bikepics.com/2012/03/13/bikepics-2364555-full.jpg http://p1.bikepics.com/2012/03/13/bikepics-2364557-full.jpg This one shows the pipe hitting the swingarm, but when it's finally assembled, we will be able to pull that pipe forward another two inches or so, and bend it slightly out, so it should just clear the swingarm, especially once it's sitting on its full weight... http://p1.bikepics.com/2012/03/13/bikepics-2364558-full.jpg I paid way more than I wanted to for these badges on Fleabay, but they have exactly the right amount of "patina" to match the tank... http://p1.bikepics.com/2012/03/13/bikepics-2364560-full.jpg Oh, and Lastly... Jay would probably be making a lot more progress on this thing except that he just picked up this old Sportster Cafe project; FOR A DOLLAR!! ;D http://p1.bikepics.com/2012/03/13/bikepics-2364561-full.jpg And that's all for now, Folks!! |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by dasch on 03/15/12 at 11:49:00 WOOOOOW!!! What is that!! For a Dollar?? Come the f*ck on!! Why I don't get a deal like that? |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by teabowl13 on 03/15/12 at 12:23:39 It's some sort of half finished race built Iron Head Sportster. I don't know Harley's at all, so that's all I can tell you, but it's going to be a serious beast when he gets done with it. He's using an old BMW Toaster tank on it that he's got cut up, and he's thinking about painting the frame in a gold chrome. (I told him he was insane!) ;D |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by Finney138 on 03/15/12 at 14:14:30 the build is coming along really nice tea bowl, really like the tank. that trumpet lookin muffler suits everything pretty well too. |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by singlesgoinsteady on 03/17/12 at 11:08:36 Do you have foreseeable chain rubbing on the swingarm? What size sprockets are you running? Thinking of maybe a roller on top of it if there is room to fit it in. Let us know what you are doing in that area. Love it so far. Also, what chain are you using and where did you source the chain/sprockets? Cheers. |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by teabowl13 on 03/17/12 at 13:52:35 GLAD YA LIKE IT! Actually I started a whole thread when I was pondering the chain conversion: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1321556481/0 There are others if you search, but to answer your questions; I'm going to be running 18t front, 47t rear. That seemed like a good compromise between more top end without losing too much low end/ mid-range power. I really won't have anything to compare it too since I never actually got to ride this Savage before we tore it down. After we lined everything up last weekend, it was obvious that it probably will rub at least a little, so Jay is going to bolt on a simple Nylon or Delrin slider to deal with that. We thought about a roller thingie, but it seems over-kill for this bike. |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by singlesgoinsteady on 03/17/12 at 16:10:47 Right on, a bolt on slider is by far the simplest solution and more can always be done later after the shakedowns, which may never end, haha. Cheers -D |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by singlesgoinsteady on 03/17/12 at 16:24:50 Check this out: http://www.slideways.com/Chain-Guides.html |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by singlesgoinsteady on 03/17/12 at 16:31:39 from here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/06-DRZ400SM-DRZ400-SM-DRZ-400-swingarm-swing-arm-16-/380240997071?item=380240997071&vxp=mtr Something like this would be sweet. |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by arteacher on 03/17/12 at 16:33:03 You can get new tank badges like that at Reproduction Decals. (I did.) http://www.reproductiondecals.com |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by teabowl13 on 03/17/12 at 19:00:30 Thanks S.G.S. I like the DRZ swingarm; I suppose I could put the whole swingarm on the bike, Right? Ah well... our slider won't be nearly so elaborate. Probably just a small home made chunk of stuff... bolted on: really simple. Motobuddah and RipNSht both battled with this issue in their RYCA builds. Artteacher... As to the tank badges; I looked at reproduction badges, but I really do LIKE them a little beaten up. I don't want this to look like a brand new bike at all; the tank is going to stay exactly the way you see it; no repairs, no bondo, no new paint... Should be a little rugged... |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/18/12 at 05:05:02 somebody wrote on the frame where the petcock goes,, Ahhhhbmmm,, Im tellinnn.. |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by teabowl13 on 03/18/12 at 13:07:40 Sorry Justin... I thought we were all adults here... ;D |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by teabowl13 on 06/07/12 at 09:36:43 Looks like I've been posting things on everybody else's thread here except my own lately! I'll be very glad when this bike gets on the road, but my soon-to-be-ex-friend Jay, who's been doing a lot of the work has totally dropped the ball and left me hanging. He's two hours away from me and has the frame out to get welded by one guy, the front wheel out to another buddy of his, and the seat off to someone else. I've got over a dozen text messages from him in the last two months that all say "Sorry Dude, I'll call you tomorrow..." But I'm still waiting for that call... He says he's "Hoping" to get my parts back from his friends this week, but seriously he's had this stuff for over four months now... When he does, he'll bring all the parts up here to me so I can get it finished myself! That wasn't my plan, or the deal we made, but it's my only hope of getting it done at this point. Wish me luck! >:( >:( >:( >:( |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by teabowl13 on 07/29/12 at 21:29:46 I haven't updated this thread in forever, I realize, but here's the short version for now. Ex-friend Jay finally delivered the bike unfinished and in pieces last month or so, and I've been going through making a lot of changes, covering up his mistakes, re-working stuff that got screwed up, and trying to finish off all the stuff that was left undone, and I AM MAKING PROGRESS!! One of the things I have been able to document so far is a fun little thing I've been working on for the exhaust. The big megaphone muffler he gave me won't work because he welded the brackets for the rearsets to the frame in such a way that they don't allow room for either the megaphone or the usual Dyna muffler set-up which was going to be my other choice. After a lot of wrangling, and head scratching, I've ended up trying to build my own MINI-MUFFLER from some Autozone tubing and a reproduction Penton 250 muffler I bought some time ago on Ebay (long story...) Anyway, I started a thread for that this week, and I've posted a bunch of pictures about it there... so here's the thread: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1343514820/0#0 And here's a photo of the thing... |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by srinath on 07/30/12 at 12:59:35 39262B2B222D262F273C3D3A3B203A204E0 wrote:
That bike is going to have huge dents in the tank if he ever rides it. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by EJID on 07/30/12 at 13:21:13 67667D7A75607C140 wrote:
That bike is going to have huge dents in the tank if he ever rides it. Cool. Srinath.[/quote] He did ride it some, but from his conversations on the customfighter blog he was wanting to trade for a motard instead... [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXI_lZ09eCk[/media] |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by srinath on 07/30/12 at 13:48:51 Yes it has the dents in the tank, almost symmetric on both sides. BTW you know what will happen if he hits those rear brakes ? Yes, the chain maybe not, but that load on the chain, it could do without. The idea about modding a bike ... it needs to work better IMHO than it did before as well as look the way you want it to look. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by Pat on 08/05/12 at 13:25:17 Your bike is looking Great. Pat |
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Title: Re: SAVAGE VINTAGE ROADSTER BUILD! Post by ZSteele on 09/26/19 at 19:08:00 Anyone know where the pics from this build can be found, or are they lost forever? |
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