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Message started by Trippah on 02/10/11 at 17:04:34

Title: Modern Cars
Post by Trippah on 02/10/11 at 17:04:34

Well, at 1:30 Monday night I got that call all parents dread. Hi..I,m Jeff, an EMT....
Thankfully he quickly let me know my son was basically all right, car totalled in a head on colllision in a snow storm. They were taking him to a hospital for checkout.

Thanks to all the forces in the universe that made Nissan engineers design crumple zones that worked, airbags that deployed etc. in his Altima.

It seems so rare that things work out as designed, I thought it worth mentioning that they did in this critical moment. :D :D :D :D

Title: Re: Modern Cars
Post by Starlifter on 02/10/11 at 17:23:08

Wow, great...could have been much worse. Thank goodness for modern enginering.

Title: Re: Modern Cars
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/10/11 at 18:13:29

Modern Cars, from the early 60's. Steel dash, lap belts, no one used them, engineers figured the tougher tha car, the better. Beautiful young woman we knew was slammed face first into the dash, bashed her pretty face in, knocked most of her teeth out. I dont think I ever saw her again.

Modern cars Kick BUTT!

Title: Re: Modern Cars
Post by kimchris1 on 02/10/11 at 21:08:16

Trippath, please relay my best to your son. To have your son involved in an auto accident is not easy. I am relieved to know he is not as seriously injured as he could have been.

Several years ago, both my children, along with my Aunt and Uncle, were involved in a head on accident. Car from other direction came too fast around a sharp curve, into their lane. Hit them head on.
No broken bones, yet months of son going to Dr as had a neck injury. Daughter had a knee that sustained a heck of a bruise.
Aunt and Uncle had concussions and yet no broken bones.
We were all blessed as this was a terrible accident.

Yes, thank the engineers of modern cars for all the safety equipment installed in them now. Hugs.. kim :)

Title: Re: Modern Cars
Post by mick on 02/10/11 at 22:42:30

So glad your boy is ok trippah.
I bet his next car is a Nisson.
mick

Title: Re: Modern Cars
Post by odmanout on 02/11/11 at 03:19:53

There are no words that can describe the feeling in your gut when you get a call like that, so I won't try. On Aug 8 1987 my oldest son was hit by a truck while standing at the curb at a stop light while riding his bicycle. He was knocked 30 ' crashing into an electrical box, and was not wearing a helmet. A bystander called us and told us he was being taken to emergency with head and leg injuries. He had a severe concussion, permanently lost some of his memory, and developed pipolar disorder because of it. The bike was totally destroyed as was most of his clothing.
Wear your helmet.

Title: Re: Modern Cars
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/11/11 at 04:32:51

words fail. Thats just so bad, Im sorry.

Title: Re: Modern Cars
Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 02/11/11 at 08:20:13

The whole science of crashworthiness is fairly new.

In the past, we put so much emphasis only on avoiding crashes, and of course, that will always be a worthy pursuit - avoidance.

But finally both the law, and the engineers came to recognize that vehicles could be better designed and built to protect occupants in the inevitable accident.

This effort really began in WW II, when Republic Aircraft designed the P-47 Thunderbolt and with its cockpit capable of protecting the pilot from split second 40G forces during impacts.

The next step in protection is known in the aviation industry, and has been since WW II. But it probably will never get into cars due to resistance from common folks.

That's the 5 point restraint system - a belt coming across each hip, meeting a belt coming down across each shoulder, and a crotch strap coming up from the seat, all meeting at a common buckle about where your belly button is.

The biggest deficit with what we have now in cars is called "submarining", where the driver slides forward, out of and under the seatbelt, and slams into the footwell and underside of the dash, as there is nothing to prevent this forward movement in an accident with forward energy. A 5 point system prevents this with its crotch strap.

A 5 point system offers about as much protection over just a lap belt with single diagonal shoulder belt (what's in most cars now), as that lap belt and single harness did compared to nothing at all.

But for some reason, consumers rebel at the thought of the 5 point system. If we could get it adopted, thousands of additional lives could be saved each year.

Title: Re: Modern Cars
Post by kimchris1 on 02/11/11 at 08:27:27

Jerry, good points as usual. You know, a baby when strapped into a car seat, has the 5 point system. Well at least most of them do.
Then the car seat is belted into the seat belt system as well.
This set up has kept many babies safer than years past. Well as long as the parent or parents, place their little bodies inside them.

Title: Re: Modern Cars
Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 02/11/11 at 08:44:57

Kim -

You're right; I forgot about baby seats.

My daughter will be 31 in June, and we had a baby seat for her with a 5 point system 30 years ago.

Title: Re: Modern Cars
Post by verslagen1 on 02/11/11 at 09:01:44

The system you need was shown in "Demolition Man"
Stalone drives the squad car of the future into a wall.
Before impact, the car is filled with styrofoam.
If you don't sufficate, you'll live.

Title: Re: Modern Cars
Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 02/11/11 at 09:16:03

Vers -

The ultimate "air bag", huh?

It was interesting about 5 years ago there was an article in the BMW owner's magazine about airbags. Some BMW engineer was railing against them, as a poor excuse for not properly engineering proper crashworthiness and restraint systems into a car.

He pointed out how we all see NASCAR and Formula 1 cars go into the wall at speeds well over 100 mph every season and then watch the driver walk away. He then posed the query as to how many of those race cars have airbags - of course, the answer is "None".

The fault in this guy's logic is simply economics - when cost is little if any issue, you can design a very crashworthy car and a very effective restaint system. But you can't do it for a mass produced car that retails for $25,000. And, of course, can you imagine the ordinary driver and passenger in a car wearing a full face race helmet?

I have no idea about the dynamics of Dale Ernhart's crash, and whether an airbag would have done him any good.

There are a couple of aviation seatbelt manufacturers now putting airbags into the shoulder harnesses in small airplanes, and the NTSB is about to mandate them for all new airplanes in a few years.

Title: Re: Modern Cars
Post by Serowbot on 02/11/11 at 09:52:45

2 points...

1. On a race track, everyone is going the same direction, and most crashes are glancing, not head on...

2. Always wear your lap belt across your hip bones, not around your waist.
Wearing it around the waist can do more damage than good... ;)...

Title: Re: Modern Cars
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/11/11 at 10:08:42

5741564B53464B50240 wrote:

Except for the wall crashes, some of those are head on.

Dont do the Detroit Lean. I sit up straight & keep the belt low.

If I could have a 5 point that I could push a button & lean over to touch something away from me, then sit back up & it hold me again, then Id be down with that.

Title: Re: Modern Cars
Post by babyhog on 02/11/11 at 19:39:05

Trippah, sending best wishes to you and your family...

Title: Re: Modern Cars
Post by mick on 02/13/11 at 16:25:05

seat belts are a pain in the ass, I bet the difference in deaths now ,and in the 50s are about the same giving the same amount of drivers.
I hate trying to get out of a car that is on fire ,bloody seat belts are a neusance.I never wear mine, I have them rigged so I look like I am wearing them ,but they just lay accross my lap. I supose next someone will want seat belts on motorcycles,and god forbid we should put them on school busses.

Title: Re: Modern Cars
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/13/11 at 20:21:49

I bet the difference in deaths now ,and in the 50s are about the same giving the same amount of drivers.

Dont bet the farm n that one. Yea, there are tmes when the belt gets someone killed, just as I woulda died if I had been wearing a helmet the 1st time I totaled a bike, but then a helmet saved me from serious injury or death in another crash. I dont like wearing a seatbelt & in some places, I dont, but in other places, I do. Ive done bodywork & seen crashed cars. Amazing that people live thru & sometimes just walk away from, horrible crashes.

Title: Re: Modern Cars
Post by bill67 on 02/14/11 at 03:49:37

35313B332C303D3431353D21580 wrote:

+ 1 How would you like to be upside down in a car and try to get out,With seat belts on.

Title: Re: Modern Cars
Post by odmanout on 02/14/11 at 05:04:31

A friend of mine rolled a Jeep several times and finished upside down and unconscious, with the seat belt holding him in the seat. He had broken his neck in 2 places. The seat belt held him in traction, and a smart ambulance guy restrained his neck before he moved him. The seat belt saved his life and kept him from being a quadriplegic. I always wear a seat belt. Fires caused by accidents are rare, but to be on the safe side I keep a fire extinguisher in the door pocket beside me and a glass breaker within reach.

Title: Re: Modern Cars
Post by bill67 on 02/14/11 at 06:00:14

When I was just out of high school,4 kids from the school were in a bad accident 2 thrown from the car lived, 2 that weren't died,Being thrown from the car saved their lives.

Title: Re: Modern Cars
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/14/11 at 06:59:36

Not uncommon for cars to crush those that get thrown out.

Seatbelts save lives & minimize injuries, generally. YOu can find instances where they dont. If you want to to use a statistically insignificant number of events as your model, go ahead. Ive seen lots of good wrecked cars as a bodyman. I saw one where a lady hit a stop sign from the side. It shoved the support sideways & the edge of the stopsign came thru the roof, slamming into the top of the steering wheel, right between her hands. No seatbelt? It woulda split her skull. It drove the steeringwheel into a Valentine shape. She took it home & kept it.
I do believe we should have the option. Having a cop tell me I hafta wear one is crap.

Title: Re: Modern Cars
Post by mpescatori on 02/14/11 at 09:14:28

Fires caused by accidents are rare, but to be on the safe side I keep a fire extinguisher in the door pocket beside me

I drive a diesel, there's little to zero chance a diesel car catch fire.

For the skeptics: drop a lit match in a bucket of diesel or kerosene, it'll go out like you dropped it in water.

Drive a diesel, save gas, save lives.

Title: Re: Modern Cars
Post by Trippah on 02/15/11 at 11:25:18

Thanks all, his bruises have maxed out and he is well on the way to going back to work.
I think most of us do not want the police to tell us when to use seatbelts..and as I drive a school bus as my retirement hobby the thought of trying to belt up and unbealt 75 elementary age student is a nightmare in the making. The buses' seats are supposed to provide the bounce protection, the heavy guage frame the impact protection.
As a note, each school bus has a seatblet cutter at hand just in case the driver's belt doesn't function.

Title: Re: Modern Cars
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/15/11 at 11:58:58

IDK why they dont put the seats in bakkerds in them busses. Maybe thatd make the kids barf, IDK.

Title: Re: Modern Cars
Post by verslagen1 on 02/15/11 at 12:04:46

6C7375726F6859695961737F34060 wrote:

IDK why they dont put the seats in bakkerds in them busses. Maybe thatd make the kids barf, IDK.

certainly would solve a obesity problem. they'll just have to install floor drains. ;D

Title: Re: Modern Cars
Post by Trippah on 02/15/11 at 14:08:30

While the cleanup would be messy..perhaps ejection seats??

Title: Re: Modern Cars
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/15/11 at 16:50:24

1B3D263F3F2E274F0 wrote:

While the cleanup would be messy..perhaps ejection seats??

Im sure the drivers would like that, as long as he had the control on each seat...

Title: Re: Modern Cars
Post by tcreeley on 02/15/11 at 16:59:02

10 years ago my wife called my son on his cell phone. H When he went to answer it, he lost his concentration and crossed the lane into the path of a pickup. She could hear the crash, the people, etc. He was driving an accent and the air bag saved him. The hyundhi was totaled. He was able to climb out his window.

TC

Title: Re: Modern Cars
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/15/11 at 17:36:15

716677606069607C050 wrote:

Im curious to know what changes were made after the crash. Ay sweeping changes? Like, Dont answ the hone, ever, while driving, let them leave a voice mail?

Title: Re: Modern Cars
Post by prsavage on 02/16/11 at 02:18:36

As someone pointed out the science of crash testing is fairly new but it has brought great improvements in vehicle safety. Keep in mind that while those safety devices are made to stand up to the crash without breaking, they do sometimes make it hard to get out quickly after the crash. Seatbelts often lock or jam. Carry a seatbelt cutter and window shattering tool. Also know how to use them and which window it can be used on. These tools make good keychains and are usually avaiable for under $10. Not bad for a life saver.

Title: Re: Modern Cars
Post by Southpaw on 02/16/11 at 12:35:21

Trippah, glad things turned out as well as they did, and thankful for the safety of your son. I've had that call, with lucky results, but the drive to the scene was one of the longest of my life! A safe rated car contributes to parental peace of mind!

Title: Re: Modern Cars
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/17/11 at 02:35:12

7B475D5C4058495F280 wrote:

Yea, dang ittt,,, back in the day, my first car was a 62 chevy, passed down to me by my Gramma, when Dad bought her a nicer car. I couldnt put my daughter in just any old crappy car. IT hadda be dependable & crashworthy. So, we got her a Civic. Blasted things are Tough.