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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Things to look for when buying used? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1295653542 Message started by Smokestack on 01/21/11 at 15:45:42 |
Title: Things to look for when buying used? Post by Smokestack on 01/21/11 at 15:45:42 Greetings, all. I've just joined up, and am looking at buying a Savage / S40 as a first motorcycle. My grandfather had an old BSA, and I love the idea of picking up a Thumper and wrenching on it. In looking around the forum, I haven't been able to find a list of things to watch out for when buying a used Savage, so I thought I'd ask. It might also be helpful to other folks if we could put together a thread with lists and links and pin it. Just a thought. Anyway, the bike I'm looking at is a 1996 Savage with 23000 Kilometers on it (around 14500 miles). Provided it is reasonably well maintained, what should I look for? My apologies if there is a thread about all this that I've missed in my wanderings, and a link would be much appreciated! :) The List: - Beware the wiles of the seller. Nothing is as good as it appears. But it ain't always horrible either! - Check for gas cap leaks by tipping the bike to the right. - After the engine has warmed up, check for oil leaks, specifically the cylinder head. -Check that all lights work well. -Turn the handlebars to check for smooth operation. Check for any slop in the pivot bearings. -Check the tires. Check both the tread depth / wear and sidewall condition. -Inspect all chrome / controls for weathering and pitting which are signs of outdoor storage. Also check for thinning exhaust pipe / muffler chrome when cool. -Listen for Cam Chain noise on the right side of the bike, near the oil filter. This may indicate Tensioner issues. -Inspect the brake discs and pads, looking for overly worn discs and / or thin pads. -Inspect the Drive Belt for holes / excessive wear / proper tracking. -Check all fluid reservoirs. New brake fluid may indicate an attempt to hide a problem. Overly dark fluids can also mean trouble. -Check the frame for any bends, dings, chips or corrosion. -Compress the forks to check for seal leaks. This may require riding over some rough ground to reveal. -MrThud's post on page two is very thorough and descriptive. Read the whole thread if you have the time, as many folks have posted informative and helpful suggestions! |
Title: Re: Things to look for when buying used? Post by Boule’tard on 01/21/11 at 15:52:43 Sure! This may turn into something good we can move to the tech section. Caveat #1: Run the bike long enough to get it good and hot, then inspect the head for oil leaks. Make sure the seller didn't just clean it up really good. #2 Lean the bike to the right and see if the gas cap leaks. |
Title: Re: Things to look for when buying used? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/21/11 at 15:56:01 Time for a look at the cam chain tensioner |
Title: Re: Things to look for when buying used? Post by Mega on 01/21/11 at 16:28:16 From now on when I look at a used bike I will insist that when I get there that they do not start it or warm it up. I want to be the first to start it that day or I will walk away. Nothing is a new as they say it is. "It just came from the shop for service/tuneup" means nothing, and it's never handled, kept or taken care of as good as they will lead you to believe. My $.02 |
Title: Re: Things to look for when buying used? Post by Smokestack on 01/21/11 at 16:34:06 4D656761000 wrote:
Yeah, I specified a cold start, by me, when I get there. If I feel heat when I put my hand on the Block, I'll let it cool down and try again. Or walk. |
Title: Re: Things to look for when buying used? Post by Smokestack on 01/21/11 at 16:50:58 554A4C4B5651605060584A460D3F0 wrote:
Is there a way to check this without pulling stuff apart? Once I get the bike home, sure, but I doubt anyone would want me to pull off covers and such in their driveway! Edit: Stupid Spelling! Grrr..... >:( |
Title: Re: Things to look for when buying used? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/21/11 at 17:17:40 Its not a deal breaker, but a bargaining tool. Its seriously Time for maintenance in the cam chain department, so, get a deal that wont make ya cry when youve gotta drop some $$$ on parts. Others know the prices, Im too forgetful. Sorry. |
Title: Re: Things to look for when buying used? Post by Driller on 01/21/11 at 17:31:20 It is a good idea to have a partner along to serve as an extra set of eyes. Especially when checking frame and wheel alignment. Let them sit on the bike and stand back to look for any tweaking of the forks and handlebars and general "straightness" . This might provide hints of having been wrecked. Look for signs of rust on the frame or "fresh" paint on welds. Do the switch controls look weathered, signs of being stored outside. Examine the belt for cracks, missing teeth. Front brake pads are easy to check. Is the brake fluid in the reservoir clean or black? Same with oil. Bounce the front forks several times and look for possible leaking from fork seals. This may take a test ride over some bumps to be evident. Do the handlebars turn easily both ways. Is there slop in the steering head bearing? Tires fresh? Old tires with good looking tread can have cracked sidewalls and may need to be chucked. All the lights and signals work? The above suggestions about oil leaks are high on the list. Of course, how does it seem to run. Don't let minor blemishes turn you away...it's 14 going on 15years old! |
Title: Re: Things to look for when buying used? Post by verslagen1 on 01/21/11 at 17:36:31 I'm going to write this for any mileage. 10 to 15k miles to me is not too much. That's where I've picked both of mine up. With care, they'll go to 50k I'm sure. One is at 46k and the other 40k. Looking to replace the cam chain on the 46k soon. the 40k next year. Both burn oil in the summer, but are ok in the winter. winter for me is 70°F summer is over 100. A bike that needs some wrenching doesn't bother me. A bike that needs to be refinished, has corrosion and rust all over, now that bothers me. We know the head plug leak or head cover leak, is not a huge deal. The head leak is a bigger deal. Various covers or bolt leaks are minor. Fork leak wouldn't be a huge deal. I've done all these. Various shaft seals would be a big deal. but I haven't had to replace any. Most people don't replace their brake fluid just cause, so I'd like to see slightly tinted fluid. Clear means he just replaced it, you'd better look that over. Dark fluid might be an issue. Check for sticky operation. Check the drive belt for holes. rocks can get caught up in the pulley then they get pushed thru if the belt is too tight. Brakes, tires and battery are normal wear items to be negotiated based on condition. Look for cracks in the tires and the mfg date. Look for thin pads. check the brake arm, there's a line on the shaft and marking on the hub too indicate wear. The muffler has some lightening holes in the chromed part because that is double walled. check for thinning (soft) when cool. When running, some ticking is normal. Valves are manually adjusted. Cam chain, if you hear knocking around by the oil filter cover (right side) It's time to replace. other than that, the average time to repair is 20k miles. I'd recommend looking at right away when you get it even if it doesn't knock. Good indication of the engine's wear status. Petcock is vacuum operated. If you run it for 5 minutes and quits, there's a good chance you'll have to replace it. Pull the vac line off and check for gas after you shut it down. shouldn't be any. These are all good negotiating points. A good guy will tell you all about the maintenance history and maybe all the receipts. Someone who doesn't know, either doesn't or won't tell you. |
Title: Re: Things to look for when buying used? Post by Paladin. on 01/21/11 at 18:47:34 The seller was quite happy to ride the bike 45 freeway miles to me: http://www.dslretorts.com/Paladin/images/PassingPaper.jpg (http://www.dslretorts.com/Paladin/archives/000640.html) And I drove him back to his house. Both willing to know each other's home -- can't be too bad. |
Title: Re: Things to look for when buying used? Post by Smokestack on 01/21/11 at 19:46:07 7F4E434E4B46412F0 wrote:
That's a great pic! I hope my buying experience will be as good! I do hereby amend the list to include the fact that not all sellers are out to fleece ya, but the original point still stands as well. |
Title: Re: Things to look for when buying used? Post by verslagen1 on 01/22/11 at 08:01:11 I certainly hope you find a savage, within 5 posts of starting here you have a very informative thread going. |
Title: Re: Things to look for when buying used? Post by Smokestack on 01/22/11 at 08:34:37 So, I went out to look at the '96 Savage today. All looks good; stored inside,fresh brakes and pads, nary a speck of rust to be seen. A few scratches on the tank, but nothing throught the primer. No fork seal leaks, and the front end was smooth with no slop. The only area of concern is a small amount of oil tucked in where the head meets the exhaust on the deep side (the right hand side if sitting on the bike, left side if looking from the front). The owner said the head hadn't been cleaned up prior, and that the oil had never dribbled any further than what I saw. There was a little accumulated dirt around it, so I tend to believe that he didn't clean it up before I got there. Is this particular leak a problem, or is it one of the easily corrected ones? Thanks for all the help, everyone! |
Title: Re: Things to look for when buying used? Post by verslagen1 on 01/22/11 at 08:48:12 About a day of relaxed labor. A tube of RTV, maybe the sealing washers and a few bolts you'll end up replacing. here's a walk thru... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1177184297 |
Title: Re: Things to look for when buying used? Post by Smokestack on 01/22/11 at 09:12:50 746770716E6365676C33020 wrote:
Excellent! I'd thought it wasn't a big deal, good to know I was right. And thanks for the link! |
Title: Re: Things to look for when buying used? Post by MrThud on 01/23/11 at 03:40:56 I thought I would share a few tips to consider when buying bikes in general. Tip 1: First thing I do (preferable with cold exhaust!) is rub my finger inside the exhaust pipe. If you end up with a very sooty finger this means that the bike is running rich (which increases cylinder wear) but is nothing to worry about immediately as it is can be as simple as mixture adjustment or airfilter replacement (cheap). If on the other hand you finger is covered in black oil then the problem is something to take seriously. As this indicates either worn rings/cylinder bore or valve stem oil seals. Fixing either necessitates a head removal. But as the repair cost can differ considerably, this next check will help you decide if you want to continue.. Start the bike and look for blue smoke from the exhaust. If the problem is valve stem oil seals the oil will burn off and smoke will stop within a few minutes of starting and only reappear after the bike has been stopped and restarted after some hours. If the smoke doesnt stop within a few minutes, and in fact probably increases with revs/load it is a costly repair.. Rebore, New rings and potentially more. Tip 2: Check for steering head/bearing wear (cheap fix, but good to knock the price down). Sit on the bike and hold the front brake on tight, now rock the bike forward and back. Listen for any clunking noise from the headstock area and look for any movement there too. Tip 3: Check swingarm bushing and rear wheel bearing wear (another cheapish fix if you can do it yourself in particular). This one is easier if the bike has a centre/main stand and you can raise the rear wheel off the ground. Get someone to steady the bike while you try rock the back wheel left to right. Look for any movement at the swingarm pivot bolt area. (If indeed you feel any side to side movement the bushings are shot and/or the wheel bearing is in need of replacement. Tip 4: Cam chain. Excessive noise indicates need for adjustment or wear in the chain or tensioner. If you rev the bike and then quickly shut of the throttle this can help exagerate any existing chain noise. Just do short throttle blips (no need to rev real high or anything). The noise will be most obvious when you close the throttle and before the engine returns to idle RPM. Tip 5: Disc wear. (MAKE SURE THE BIKE IS COLD OR THIS CHECK Will result in serious finger burns). To check this simply place you finger and thumb on the disc/rotor and rub back and forth. What you are looking for is the ridges in the disc surface which indicate that the bike has been ridden with the pads worn down, as when the metal of the pad rub on the disk the scoring/ridges occur. Alternately it could indicate that incorrect (coarse/sintered) pads have been used. (But indeed high mileage causes some ridges naturally) Tip 6: Look for a blown or leaking head gasket. Look for oil seeping from between the head and barrels. (Not cheap for a novice to fix). This will be more evident after a longer ride. Also look at the condition of the oil. Remove the dip stick and look for any white/grey crud. Note; a blown head gasket that isnt replaced can lead to much more serious problems, as air is sucked in and screws with your mixture which can result in a very hot engine and holed piston. Tip 7: Wheel misalignment, bent forks, bent frame (expensive..walk away if you are a novice) This can be real difficult to spot with your eye. Straighten the bars and walk 5 or so metres from the front and then rear of the bike. Look for any obvious misalignment. Bent bars can sometimes make you think the forks are bent, but if in doubt its not worth the risk. What I do is take the bike for a test spin. when riding in a straight line are the bars straight? Does the bike corner without wobbles in both right and left corners? Best if you can find a smooth road with some long bends (the type you can cruise round at 70klms + )). Short abrupt corners dont show the problem up as well. Tip 8: Gearbox. Does the bike freely go into each gear without false neturals? Is there any whine noises in any particular gear? Smooth roads are best for this assessment. If you are an experienced rider you may want to try rapid acceleration in first and second gear. As in my experience these are the more likely gears to have problems (due previous fast gettaways at the lights and subsequent miss-selection/crunches). If the bike jumps out of gear then walk away.. not cheap or easy.) Tip 9: Has the bike been dropped or had minor collision? Check the ends of the clutch and brake levers for scoring. Check the ends of indicators and mirrors (cheap, to fix if you are fussy, but this is a good one for negiotation). If you do find scoring on any of the levers then I suggest you check the engine casings for cracks/leaks on that side. Tip 10: Fork tube Pitting and Fork seals. Depress the forks and look for oil on the tubes. The seals are very cheap to buy but if you are a novice and will need a repair place to do the work they may be a little expensive (couple of hours work). If the forks have rust pitting the seals will soon go.. Tip 11: Look at the wheel rims for kerb dents. Chrome flaking and rust can indicate an area to be particularly suspicious of. Look for broken or loose spokes. Tip 12: Electric system and charging. Check all lights and indicators (trivial). Now with the headlight on start the bike and rev it, then let it idol. Is there a significant dimming or brightening of the light?. (This can indicate a faulty regulator/rectifier/generator or a simple battery problem). But the best way to test this is with a volt meter accross the battery terminals. With the bike running and lights on I think the volts should be around 12.5-14.5 volts. Preferably above 13. (Not 11 and NOT 15 ++) high voltage here would indicate a faulty reg/rectifier (cheap secondhand and easy). [I have had coils melt like candles with a faulty regulator and a GS550 that was charging 16volts..] I could go on..but shouldnt. Truth be told the best thing you can do is bring an experienced friend with you. As no matter how experienced you are yourself once you see the bike...you forget most things and just want to hand the cash over and ride away into the sunset!! ;D Hope these tips help! Ride safe. G. |
Title: Re: Things to look for when buying used? Post by 2whlthrpy on 01/23/11 at 04:27:08 Excellent writeup MrThud, very descriptive for the novice buyer like myself [smiley=dankk2.gif]. I will save these tips for future reference, thank you. |
Title: Re: Things to look for when buying used? Post by Smokestack on 01/23/11 at 10:20:01 I agree, Very helpful MrThud. I'm going to directly refer to your post in the OP, 'cuz I don't have the time right now to transfer the essence of it all. Thanks to everyone who has posted so far, and if y'all have any more tips and suggestions, keep 'em coming! :) |
Title: Re: Things to look for when buying used? Post by verslagen1 on 01/23/11 at 10:48:15 There's a false neutral between 4th and 5th on all bikes, new or old. Here's something else just reminded of in another thread... Loose drive pulley nut can allow wear in the splines. Rock the bike fore and aft while in gear, look thru the slots in the pulley cover, see if you can detect any motion between the nut and the pulley. |
Title: Re: Things to look for when buying used? Post by mornhm - FSO on 01/23/11 at 14:40:07 I've mentioned this before on another thread, on any MC with relatively low mileage, but especially on an older MC; make sure that the wear and tear on the MC (things like the seat, handgrips, pegs, etc.) matches up with the mileage. Yeah, maybe the wear on the pegs, grips and seat could come from the person pretending to ride it in the garage, but I would have my doubts. |
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