SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl
General Category >> Technical Documents/Reference >> coil and ignitor destroyed
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1293638302

Message started by fsmidt on 12/29/10 at 07:58:22

Title: coil and ignitor destroyed
Post by fsmidt on 12/29/10 at 07:58:22

i`ve been chopping my electrical wiring.
puting it back, ride a while and parked it in the shed.
next day no spark.
checking the coil, darn thing was melted down, replaced it and try .....no spark.
checking and smelling ignitor, humm not smelling nice, operate the darn thing.
after opening the ignitor i saw this. :(

http://www.suzukisavage.nl/ForumsPro/download/id=728.html

how on earth it is possible to melt down the coil and ignitor.

i ordered replace ignitor from the dutch savagesite but affraid it will be destroyed again.

Title: Re: coil and ignitor distroyed
Post by verslagen1 on 12/29/10 at 08:41:22

http://www.suzukisavage.nl/ForumsPro/download/id=728.html

That's a power transister that's burnt to a cinder.
And right there my friends is why we loose spark at 10v, IC chips.
Designed to run on 12v, as soon as the voltage drops, they don't work.

me thinks you left the switch on, the coil shorted and the limited heat sink on the power IC overheated.

Please take a pic of the backside and enough picts so all the components can be identified.  This looks like a single sided pc board, it can be duplicated.

Title: Re: coil and ignitor distroyed
Post by fsmidt on 12/29/10 at 10:08:34

http://www.suzukisavage.nl/ForumsPro/download/id=729.html

http://www.suzukisavage.nl/ForumsPro/download/id=727.html

the wires to the 3 pins (mosfett ?) are orange/wite    black/yellow  and black/white.

orange/white is not direct to the mosfett but first an diode after this one 2 other resistance.

these pictures are from 2009 when i had the same problem,broken coil and igniter.

is it possible problems start when you use a batterycharger on battery while you start the engine?
i think both time this nuts happens the battery is/was low on power.
i also left on switch for a longtime.

i also had/have current on both wires of the coil when switch is on.
i don`t know if this was before or after ignitor was melting down.

the bike just ran fine the day before.

is there no spark when current is below 10v? but at 10volt the starterengine is not turning isn`t it?

if ground is not good is it possible to ruine the coil? and when the coil was down the igniter was next?

i know a lot of questions...

i`ve you like i can make picture`s of Ignitor.do you want to duplicate it?



Title: Re: coil and ignitor distroyed
Post by verslagen1 on 12/29/10 at 10:46:27

This is for a '86 thru '88
http://img277.echo.cx/img277/8531/igniterunit6bl.jpg


Quote:
the wires to the 3 pins (mosfett ?) are orange/white    black/yellow  and black/white.


Seems to confirm a problem with the coil.

Title: Re: coil and ignitor distroyed
Post by fsmidt on 01/07/11 at 06:56:04


Quote:
I don't personally want to duplicate, but if someone wanted to repair one in the future, it would be good info to have.


maybey for you electric goeroes,create with info on link an programmable cdi or else ,there are 5 differant cdi explaned.

http://www.transmic.net/en/home.htm



Title: Re: coil and ignitor distroyed
Post by tx650 on 01/16/11 at 22:19:25

I've lost the ignitor several times myself from leaving power on to the coil. Damage to mine looked like your pictures.
The Savage unit is a TCI system(Transistor Controlled Igniton). With the ignition switch on there is 12 volts on the coil at all times. The TCI interupts the ground side of the coil(Yellow-Black wire to pin 5) and the sparkplug fires. If you leave the ignition switch on with engine not running for an extended period the power transistor will overheat and fail.
Sounds like you have 2 failed ignitors. They can be repaired fairly easy. If you do  it yourself cost to repair both shouldn't be over $15.00. More if you use a shop. If you want to  repair them, let me know and I can give you a list of parts and source.

Title: Re: coil and ignitor distroyed
Post by fsmidt on 01/16/11 at 22:46:36

i have a used one on it right now,but plz send the needed part numbers and instructions.


Title: Re: coil and ignitor distroyed
Post by tx650 on 01/17/11 at 18:42:26

fsmidt:
To repair the ignitors you should be familiar with simple PC board repairs and good soldering practices or have a good friend who does nearby.
 I would begin by cleaning the foil side of the  pc board in the burnt area. If the copper foil is burnt away from the board, it is not a good candidate for repair. You can use a toothbrush,solvent,steelwool to clean the area. If you are able to polish the copper where it will take solder, component replacement is possible.
 From your picture of the component side of ignitor it looks like you lost the transistor and the black diode and blue resistor (470 ohm) directly below it. unseen in your picture are two small resistors underneath the transistors heat sink. The one closest to the board edge is 22 ohm, the other a 2K ohm. Both are 1/8 watt rated. If they look damaged I would replace them.
 Remove the damaged components using a low wattage gun and some solder wick. Remove the screw holding the transistor to the heat sink. With the transistor out of the way you can clean heat sink to insure good thermal contact  between it and the new transistor. Use thermal grease between them. The new transistor is a direct replacement with same mounting holes and pin layout. observe polarity when mounting diode.(Banded end faces away from block connector)
 After soldering and trimming leads, check the foil side closely for shorts and solder bridges. A good magnifier comes in handy here.
 I have had sucess in repairing two ignitors. Hopes this works for you.

 These components should be available from any electronic supply house:   A 1 amp rated general purpose diode(1n4003, 4 or 5)
            470 ohm 1 watt resistor  (Blue one in pic)
            22 ohm and 2K ohm  1/8 watt resistors if needed

 The transistor I used is a High Voltage Ignition Coil Driver mfg by ST Micro Electronics. This is a NPN Power darlington type in a TO-220 package. Part # is BU914ZT. I bought mine from Mouser Electronics(mouser.com) under part # 511-BU941ZT for about  3 bucks each. I think Digikey(digikey.com) also stocked these.
 Good luck with your repairs. Sucess qualifies you as a Savage Brain Surgeon.

Title: Re: coil and ignitor destroyed
Post by fsmidt on 01/18/11 at 00:43:20

GREAT!!!! tnx tx650.

i have friend(now good friend ;) )who can solder tiny things.
luckily the copper is still intact its a little lose but ok.
thanks for components numbers.
we will give it a try.

Title: Re: coil and ignitor distroyed
Post by Rome08 on 04/03/12 at 08:49:40

is the glue looking material on the board the signs on a melted board?

455641405F5254565D02330 wrote:
http://www.suzukisavage.nl/ForumsPro/download/id=728.html

That's a power transister that's burnt to a cinder.
And right there my friends is why we loose spark at 10v, IC chips.
Designed to run on 12v, as soon as the voltage drops, they don't work.

me thinks you left the switch on, the coil shorted and the limited heat sink on the power IC overheated.

Please take a pic of the backside and enough picts so all the components can be identified.  This looks like a single sided pc board, it can be duplicated.


Title: Re: coil and ignitor distroyed
Post by verslagen1 on 04/03/12 at 09:13:30

No, that's conformal coating.  It protects the board from moisture and helps prevent vibration damage.


0F3230386D655D0 wrote:
is the glue looking material on the board the signs on a melted board?


http://www.suzukisavage.nl/ForumsPro/download/id=728.html


Title: Re: coil and ignitor destroyed
Post by Rome08 on 04/03/12 at 09:48:32

is it bad if it drips onto the back of the board and could this cause sputtering/stalling during accelleration?

Title: Re: coil and ignitor destroyed
Post by verslagen1 on 07/09/12 at 20:28:22

This is for a '95 on
http://www.savageriders.com/verslagen/Circuits/connector95on2.jpg
http://www.savageriders.com/verslagen/Circuits/plug95on1.jpg
http://www.savageriders.com/verslagen/Circuits/plug95onbackside2.jpg

Title: Re: coil and ignitor destroyed
Post by verslagen1 on 07/22/12 at 11:41:16

Be aware, check the connector before buying.
Different years have different connectors and may not be compatible to your bike even if you change the connector.
the 80's series are definitely not compatible to the 90's series due to timing issues.
And now I see an '09 might have a 6 prong connector.

Title: Re: coil and ignitor destroyed
Post by japes on 08/22/13 at 15:21:07

I have had had two CDI blow due to the reason highlighted in this post I think. I have paid lots of money to get

two new CDI and they have blown also. I repaired both CDI's with new power transitors and they also blow. I have

decided to make my own CDI based on http://www.transmic.net/en/dc628-v20.htm
Does anyone know:
1/ The Ignition Advance Curve for the LS650
2/ The position of the Pickup Coil/Pulsor Coil relative to Top Dead Centre (TDC) e.g. maybe 36 degrees before TDC.
3/ Is the pulse from the Pickup coil positive then negative or negative then positive
4/ The rev range of the LS650

Title: Re: coil and ignitor distroyed
Post by anders brink on 06/28/18 at 13:10:57

Any chance you've saved the images of the circuit board? suzukisavage.nl seem rather dead.

I'm trying to repair a CDI where the drive belt made a mess of the generator and trigger signal cables - and the green signal wire got in contact with the AC cables from the generator. The component connected to the green signal cable has vaporized inside the CDI so I can't tell what component is supposed to be mounted. Probably a 1N4148 diode but can't really tell.

Anyone else with a high-res picture of the circuit board inside the CDI?


30253B3F3222560 wrote:
the wires to the 3 pins (mosfett ?) are orange/wite    black/yellow  and black/white.

orange/white is not direct to the mosfett but first an diode after this one 2 other resistance.

these pictures are from 2009 when i had the same problem,broken coil and igniter.

is it possible problems start when you use a batterycharger on battery while you start the engine?
i think both time this nuts happens the battery is/was low on power.
i also left on switch for a longtime.

i also had/have current on both wires of the coil when switch is on.
i don`t know if this was before or after ignitor was melting down.

the bike just ran fine the day before.

is there no spark when current is below 10v? but at 10volt the starterengine is not turning isn`t it?

if ground is not good is it possible to ruine the coil? and when the coil was down the igniter was next?

i know a lot of questions...

i`ve you like i can make picture`s of Ignitor.do you want to duplicate it?


Title: Re: coil and ignitor destroyed
Post by verslagen1 on 11/03/20 at 09:17:34


2E223F23243E252A222337224D0 wrote:
Hi everyone,

So some great news. I got the bike running!  ;D ;D

https://youtu.be/92iLiky_ejs

In the end I found the problem to be the cheap aftermarket ignition coils that you can buy on eBay. These have a primary coil resistance of 1 to 1.5 ohms and they WILL BURN YOUR TRANSISTOR!!!

I managed to purchase a good condition used OEM suzuki ignition coil on eBay and it has a primary resistance of 4.5 ohms

I also soldered on a new D1071 resistor on the board, I then started the bike and it fired up within 1 second. Brilliant.

As mentioned earlier in the thread,

12v @ 4.5ohms = 2.6 Amps
12v @ 1 ohm = 12 Amps

The rating of the transistor in the black TCI module is 6amps. So it is quite clear to see that an ignition coil with low resistance will damage your transistor.

I hope this thread is able to help someone else out in the future as I know lots of people have trouble with these TCI boxes.

The moral of the story is. Check your primary coil resistance and only use a Suzuki OEM ignition coil!!

Cheers everyone,

Tom


Title: Re: coil and ignitor destroyed
Post by verslagen1 on 11/03/20 at 09:20:17


737F627E796378777F7E6A7F100 wrote:
kamelryttarn:

Ive attached a photo of the top and the bottom of the board. Its single sided so quite easy to map out.

http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/TCI-TOP.jpg
http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/TCI-BOT_001.jpg

SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2!
YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved.