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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> 2-piston caliper upgrade? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1291049239 Message started by MotoBuddha on 11/29/10 at 08:47:19 |
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Title: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by MotoBuddha on 11/29/10 at 08:47:19 I've searched all over here trying to learn if anyone has figured out how to mount a 2-piston caliper on the stock fork. No luck yet. Sure, there's the option of swapping to different forks and all that, but that's not what I want to do. There's a fairly common Nissin 2-piston caliper used on various dirt bikes (and therefore compatible with wire-spoke wheels). I was hoping there was an adaptor bracket or something out there. Maybe one of you fab wizards can work something up. I come from the non-cruiser world and have a thing about wanting more that merely adequate brakes. Silly me. |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by verslagen1 on 11/29/10 at 11:40:34 I've never heard of anyone doing it. There's just not a lot of data lying around so anyone could look up a matching caliper and put it on. But yes a custom adapter could be made. |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by Lupo on 11/29/10 at 12:25:02 I agree with the stopping power needing help and keep looking for alternative solutions. If you haven't yet, going to a braided steel line helps a lot. |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by MotoBuddha on 11/29/10 at 12:34:06 4C514B444150270 wrote:
All my bikes get braided stainless steel lines. [smiley=thumbsup.gif] |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by wayne929 on 11/29/10 at 15:13:38 if anyones got a link to some i wouldnt be against trying to customize them on my bike. im a light guy and the brakes on the bike as not good, i dont see how you heavy guys do it. when my gfs on the back i gotta crank down and downshift pretty good when a light catches me. ill be the guina pig some might say |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by MotoBuddha on 11/29/10 at 17:11:56 4A5C445358040F043D0 wrote:
Check eBay for front calipers for DR's, YZ's, RM's, CRF's... They're usually about $45. For example: http://tinyurl.com/2czbm99 |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by verslagen1 on 11/29/10 at 17:44:40 So you got me lookin' (dern you anyway) And I see a familiar 4 bolt pattern... :o Anybody with a 90-91 DR650 with a 4 bolt pattern? measure the thickness, OD, ID and bolt circle diameter please? |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by MotoBuddha on 11/29/10 at 17:56:14 Don't go by the pictures. They're often just generic shots. The LS uses a 4-bolt hub/rotor. The DR uses a 6-bolt hub/rotor. Oops, correction -- the 90-91 DR did use a 4-bolt hub/rotor. |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by MotoBuddha on 11/29/10 at 18:15:45 I poked around the EBC online catalog. I learned their part number for LS rotors is MD3017LS. They say that's a 260mm rotor. The 90-91 DR is a 280mm rotor, number MD6076D. As long as someone was making an adapter for DR calipers, they might as well make it so it fits the larger DR rotor. |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by MotoBuddha on 12/02/10 at 12:45:30 OK, I got a caliper from a DR650. It would be really difficult to make it fit. I knew the distance between mounting bolt holes was different, but the distance between the fork and rotor is also different between the LS and DR. Oh well. |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by MotoBuddha on 12/24/10 at 11:40:54 OH SO CLOSE! I got the left caliper from an SV650 (and some other models). It bolted perfectly to the fork leg. But with the wheel and rotor in place... DANG! The rotor diameter is too large. http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk182/motobuddha/5e5864b3.jpg So if I want to continue down this road, I need to find a smaller rotor. But since the LS650 uses and odd 4-bolt pattern, that limits rotor choices. So I might have to find the right size rotor first then find a hub that works with it and the axle. :-/ An entire front end swap is starting to look like a viable alternative. ;D |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by verslagen1 on 12/24/10 at 13:05:18 The savage disk is an odd ball. No other mounting like it. That's not to say a custom disk can't be made. But I'd rather make an adapter for the calipers. |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/24/10 at 13:12:00 23302726393432303B64550 wrote:
Cha- CHING,, Looks like a lot easier answer, cheaper. Looks almost like the pistons are gonna be real close to the size of the swept area on the disk. Thos pads gonna be all on the swept area? |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by LANCER on 12/24/10 at 14:40:01 why not just have the rotor turned down a little to match |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by MotoBuddha on 12/24/10 at 16:05:36 3E333C3137206065520 wrote:
That occurred to me. I'm guessing about a centimeter would need to come off. But the reason for trying to go with 2-piston calipers is to increase braking force. Cutting away rotor area sort of runs counter to that goal. I'll have to think about it. |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by MotoBuddha on 02/23/11 at 06:24:43 I found a source that can turn down the rotor, surface grind it so it's perfectly true again, and even drill holes if I want. Hmmmmm... |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by verslagen1 on 02/23/11 at 07:32:19 I scored a set of left and right 8-) given the proper rear wheel 8-) 8-) can these calipers be used on the rear? |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by MotoBuddha on 02/23/11 at 07:45:43 The only problem would be fabbing a way to mount them. And rear calipers and rotors are traditionally smaller, less powerful because the front does most of the braking. |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by verslagen1 on 02/23/11 at 07:56:01 So my biggest problem will be finding a disk. ;D |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by MotoBuddha on 02/23/11 at 08:13:21 I had another idea about the rotor. There are rear rotors that mount with 4 bolts. I wonder if there's one that matches the Savage front bolt pattern AND is the right diameter for this caliper conversion. I sense a lot of research in my future. |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by MotoBuddha on 02/23/11 at 14:07:26 Rotor makers assume all you need to know is your bike model number, not the dimensions of their rotors. There are eBay sellers from China that go to the trouble of putting up spec drawings, though. From those I found a painfully close-but-no-cigar rotor used on various Kawasaki and Suzuki dirt bikes. Four mounting holes? Check. 250mm diameter? Check. Bolt circle diameter 110mm? No, 100mm Bolt hole size 10.5mm? No, 9.5. Rats. :( EBC does offer a custom rotor service, but you know it wouldn't be cheap. |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by runrun on 02/25/11 at 20:14:44 I'm doing the CS-1 conversion, and even after shedding a lot of the LS's weight, the front brake is still going to need help. I'd definitely would be interested in a caliper adapter for an SV650 caliper. Group buy? |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by MotoBuddha on 02/26/11 at 05:37:17 Here's the new plan: I bought the hub from a GS450. It's supposed to have the same axle size as the Savage (and many other Suzuki bikes). It will arrive next week. If it fits, I'll get an old GS rotor. If it aligns properly -- wheel centered on the axle and rotor in position for the caliper -- I'll send it out to be turned down to the right diameter, then surface ground perfectly flat and drilled. Then I'd have axle spacers made. There are two reasons I want to go this route. First is that modifying the caliper mounting section to fit the stock rotor would require filling the existing holes, adding material to the bottom part, then drilling and tapping new holes. That's a lot of work with more to go wrong, especially compared to the simple procedure of turning down a rotor. The second is that if you turn down the stock rotor so the SV caliper fits without modification, there's not much rotor surface left, and the swept area of the pads would be off the inside edge and onto the rotor spokes. Also, the only aftermarket rotor for the Savage, made by EBC, comes drilled. There's not enough outer edge to cut away without cutting into the holes. The old GS rotors have gobs of swept area. It's no problem to cut away the extra diameter. And they're cheap. The down side in most cases is the cost of lacing the rim to the GS hub. But since I've already cut out the stock hub to polish it, and since I'm switching to an 18" rim, I was going to have to re-lace anyway. The other down side is it's hard to find an old GS hub since most people bought the models with cast wheels. But if you want a cast wheel, here's your chance. So, I'll know if this is workable once I check the fit of the hub and rotor. Of course, the other option is and entire GS front end, but that would mean more work, too, like modifying the top triple clamp to work with 1" bars, or getting new switches and controls for 7/8" bars -- plus the general rehabbing of skanky parts. |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by verslagen1 on 02/26/11 at 09:11:52 Just about all of the suzuki road bikes have the same axle 16mm. And I think all of the '80's GS hubs are the same too, they look to have the same disk bolt pattern. But the disk off of a GS450 is what you want, it's the same thickness as the savage, 4.7mm. Also, a SV650 might work, but in either case the OD needs to be cut down. I also spaced out the disk about a 1/4", will have to check that one. An alternate to the GS front end is a GR650 front end. It has the same rubber dampers to mount the handle bars 8-) Both require some work to keep the forks from putting a dent in the tank. Another advantage to the GR front end is the geometry is more like the savage, the gs forks are nearly in line with the stem. |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by MotoBuddha on 02/26/11 at 10:02:25 786B7C7D626F696B603F0E0 wrote:
But since the Savage steering geometry is very cruising friendly, GS geometry would quicken things up for those who like the twisties. |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by verslagen1 on 02/26/11 at 10:06:23 That would be rake and trail. Rake remains the same regardless of which fork you use. Trail on the GS will be minimum. Trail on the GR will be more than the GS, less than the savage. |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by MotoBuddha on 02/26/11 at 10:09:22 GS forks are shorter, so the rake would change. And you can change it even further by raising the forks in the triple clamps. Of course, you can do that with the GR forks, too. Also, some GS forks -- from L model bikes -- mount the axle on the fromt of the slider instead of at the bottom, which also changes rake. |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by verslagen1 on 02/26/11 at 10:40:04 a very good article on the subject... http://www.tonyfoale.com/Articles/RakeEx/RakeEx.htm The gs650 forks I got are 1/2" longer than the savage. And yes, axle mounted on the front of the slider. I'll have to measure them. |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by MotoBuddha on 02/26/11 at 17:52:07 Surprise, the GS450 hub arrived this afternoon. It is confirmed the Savage axle fits. http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk182/motobuddha/1a708e7b.jpg |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by verslagen1 on 02/26/11 at 18:09:00 Those notches in the hub are for the speedo drive. |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by MotoBuddha on 02/26/11 at 18:29:31 Yup, and not necessary with the Savage. |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by verslagen1 on 02/27/11 at 22:38:17 Did some work today. Put the SV caliper on the savage, top hole almost works, bottom is off by a little more than a half hole. The center of the caliper is not pointed at the center of the wheel, oh well... But looking on the bright side... http://www.savageriders.com/verslagen/WheelMod/81gs650onasavage.jpg A 17" wheel from a '81 GS550 fits. The drive pulley slips right in too. Disk brake is going to take some more work. |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by MotoBuddha on 02/28/11 at 09:19:44 You might need something like this -- http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/02-Suzuki-GS500E-GS500-GS-500-REAR-BRAKE-CALIPER-MASTER-/230578390751?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35af8b06df#ht_3473wt_1167 Caliper, hanger, torque link, master cylinder, pedal... |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by verslagen1 on 02/28/11 at 11:27:50 Ah, you're getting ahead of me... or trying to. Got one, but that one looks like a better fit. For this project I'll need a disk to clear the swingarm. A flat one should work fine. I'll just have to grind off the tab for the brake hub. |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by ralfyguy on 02/28/11 at 19:09:08 What's the brake fluid on the Savage? DOT3 or DOT4? |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by verslagen1 on 02/28/11 at 19:25:57 7D6E636976687A760F0 wrote:
4 is specified 3 is acceptable unless you're racing. |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by ralfyguy on 03/01/11 at 11:21:34 Oh thanks verslagen. Now I found it written on top of the brake cylinder lid. But it was on the bottom in french. I was just afraid whether you can mix them or not. |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by verslagen1 on 03/01/11 at 11:30:11 The can will say if it can be mixed. Hell, it'll take only halve a small can to replace it. |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by MotoBuddha on 03/01/11 at 11:45:25 It's in English, too. At least on mine. http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk182/motobuddha/73c04578.jpg |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by MotoBuddha on 03/02/11 at 13:43:33 I got the rotor today -- one off a GS550. (Ah, the memories of my second bike.) It's a heavy mother. The seller was kind enough to include the bolts and locking tabs. I put things roughly in place and it's clear I'll either need a spacer as mentioned above or a rotor with a more offset center. If it's not one things it's another. |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by verslagen1 on 03/02/11 at 14:11:01 I ended up using a set of drill stops as the available spacers were too big, .312 vs. .25 (I think) and moving one of the washers for the caliper from under the bolt head to between the caliper and fork. If I recall correctly .286 would have been perfect. |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by MotoBuddha on 03/02/11 at 14:26:55 Do you have a photo of your setup? |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by verslagen1 on 03/02/11 at 15:36:02 I'll look but don't think so. And disassembled now, working on the gr650 front end. |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by MotoBuddha on 03/02/11 at 16:03:13 Will you be reusing the spacers? (hint hint) |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/02/11 at 16:52:03 MB, subtitles may not be your greatest verchew.. |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by verslagen1 on 03/02/11 at 17:43:06 445B5D5A4740714171495B571C2E0 wrote:
dang auto spell checker... ::) |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by verslagen1 on 03/02/11 at 17:48:08 64465D466B5C4D4D4148290 wrote:
Yes, I think I've even used one as a drill stop. Almost more to ship than to buy them, check your local OSH/lowes etc. they weren't metric, just whatever fit. |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by Dave on 04/06/14 at 05:01:49 Verslagen provided me a link to this old thread......and it is possible to use the caliper with a bit of welding, drilling and tapping. It will be a few weeks before I can let you know if it is worth the effort. The piston size should provide a 24% increase in braking force, this SV650 caliper has 2 pistons that are 34mm....the stock caliper is a single 43mm piston. I first put the bracket in my lathe and machined off the raised portion that provides a thicker thread area. http://i60.tinypic.com/rsztk9.jpg I then welded up the original holes. http://i59.tinypic.com/35li1ir.jpg I then ground the welds nearly flush, then cut an extension piece to weld on. I left the extension large so it could be welded without burning it up....the actual extension needed was much smaller. http://i57.tinypic.com/b8r8rd.jpg Here is the bracket cut to size and tapped 10x1.25. I then welded nuts on the back side to provide more thread area. http://i58.tinypic.com/xq9ull.jpg Here is what it looks like mounted. If I had it to do over again I would weld the extension with more area on one side - so the caliper could be rotated closer to the fork leg. http://i60.tinypic.com/2627a07.jpg http://i58.tinypic.com/2n6cb2h.jpg I need to order some new brake pads, and while they are in the mail I am going to ride with the stock caliper for a bit so I remember what it feels like. Then when I mount the new one I will see how it works. If it works well, I will probably paint it silver like the original one. I believe I spent about 6 hours cutting and grinding on this...I sure hope it works! |
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Title: Re: 2-piston caliper upgrade? Post by cigarandcoffeeman on 04/06/14 at 05:13:24 i find this quite intriguing, i run a bandit 1200 and the brakes are ok i also was running my 400 savage before teardown, now i do have a braided hose on the savage and its more than adequate for stopping, itl lock the wheel no problem all day everyday, doesnt fade feels great, jump back on the bandit and its just meh compared to the savage, i think as long as the caliper is well looked after frequently cleaned/checked and is bled every 2 years with the braided hose is a superb system... but like i said i am intrigued with new set ups purely from a customizable view.... |
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