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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
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Message started by Oldfeller on 10/11/10 at 02:28:58

Title: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by Oldfeller on 10/11/10 at 02:28:58


Everyone votes -- You must vote three (3) times if you had petcock issues 3 times, once per section
and vote only once if you have not had any petcock issues at all.

Question Sections are     NO_YES               FIX_REPLACED        AGE IN YEARS        OVERHEAT(optional)




This is to see the overall width and breadth of the petcock problem.  

I think there is a significant percentage of folks who will realize they have had petcock flow issues and perhaps it will lead them to solving this issue (and all the myrad little performance issues that come from it).

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by Oldfeller on 10/11/10 at 02:42:42


<cut from another thread>


What everybody is saying is that your stock vacuum actuated petcock isn't flowing enough gas for wide open throttle uses for you on your bike under those particular circumstances.

===================

Let's run this thought out a bit -- you are running WFO for a bit and the petcock can't keep up because vac pressure is low and the diaphragm is stiff & old so your your bowl level is getting critical low due to only a dribble of gas getting thru the petcock ....

Bike is turning max rpm and should be making max HP, but instead it's leaning out to the point it sputters and pops.   It leans out to the max and gets really really hot instead.


THEORY

Have we just explained the (not so rare) sudden onset of oil consumption issues, the more occasional piston/rings suddenly getting mangled up and the very rare holed piston and popped off valve tulip head?


If I were a heavy wrist-ed wicker I'd get rid of the stock petcock and go to a Raptor simply to forestall any massive "overheating the engine" issues down the road.  

Stock petcocks will fail eventually on you (given enough time, anyway).

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by prechermike on 10/11/10 at 03:01:14

I replaced my petcock with the raptor one.  Even though the mileage was low, my bike is an 87, so I am thinking that age is what got me on this one.  It is a simple fix, which has been said many times before, I am glad I did it.

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by Oldfeller on 10/11/10 at 03:20:19


Good point about years of age being the determinant on the "stiff diaphragm" part of the issue, not simple miles per se.


I'll fix the poll accordingly.

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by youzguyz on 10/11/10 at 05:13:53

<- poll challenged.
Only voted "Yes".
Fixed: Replaced with Raptor.
Why: Cutting out at high RPM. (Very intermittent, very aggravating)
When: about a year ago?
What: 2002 with lots o miles.

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by Charon on 10/11/10 at 06:08:07

The only machine on which I have had vacuum petcock issues was a Honda 125 Aero scooter. It was a two-stroker, and the intake manifold vacuum came from the crankcase. It would not run steadily at wide-open throttle, but ran just fine when the throttle was slightly closed. I don't remember the model year, but I bought the machine new so age should not have been a factor.

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by Oldfeller on 10/11/10 at 06:10:23


So your bike was less than 10 years old.

Neat thing about this poll is I rigged it so you can go back in and delete your entire poll entry and then redo it correctly if you screw it up.

I suspect most bikes need to get over 10 years old to have petcock issues, but time will tell us that answer as the poll results add up.


Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/11/10 at 06:22:20

Well, NOW I get it. Even IF my fuel is flowing fine at cruisin around, hard accelerating & giggling levels, it May Not flow well enough at sustained wide open throttle settings. Ill not be running wide open for more than a few seconds while this petcock is delivering the gas. It wont be on the slab again till it has a raptor on it.

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by youzguyz on 10/11/10 at 06:24:22


51727A787B72727B6C1E0 wrote:
Neat thing about this poll is I rigged it so you can go back in and delete your entire poll entry and then redo it correctly if you screw it up.


Poll entry fixed.  :P

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by Oldfeller on 10/11/10 at 08:39:47


Heck, that's a surprise to me -- so many bikes having petcock issues that are less than 10 years old.

Do you suppose that 10% alcohol showing up in regular gas played any role in this larger amount of "newer" bikes having the issue?

Or have the vac actuated petcocks been a crock all along?

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by verslagen1 on 10/11/10 at 11:49:40

I guess I'm unique in that I had 4 checkmarks.

I acquired an '88 with a burnt piston.
Of course I'm not sure what caused it, but doubt that it was the 155 main jet.
The PO said he was running down the superslab at speed and it lost power.  He commuted to torrance? to santa clarita.
The bike was about 20 years old, stock.

I'll have to say that if the petcock is causing an overheating problem, it is very locallized.

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by prechermike on 10/11/10 at 17:19:21

One bike over 20 years old!  That's me! :D

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by ero4444 on 10/11/10 at 20:00:08

you left out "had petcock issues and now run it in prime 100%" - that's me.

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by Oldfeller on 10/11/10 at 20:33:09


Most of us prefer to have a gas reserve (kinda nice thing to have).

Prime works, but gives you ZERO reserve and some sudden surprises !!!

But you can get some primo extra exercise running in Prime all the time

  -- very good cardiac exercise pushing that bike ....

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/12/10 at 04:13:20

I guess what Ill do is try to remember to put it on prime if Im gonna be askin for max fuel delivery.

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by Routy on 10/12/10 at 07:39:38

Thats the answer IMO.
I will always defend the vacuum petcock. It is after all, a saftey feature that I believe worth some maintenence every few years if needed.
I went down on gravel a while back,.....took me a few mintutes to regroup,....after a couple seconds the engine quit running, and I didn't have gasoline running all over hot exhaust either.
6,000 miles....no problem yet. If and when it does give me a problem, I will fix it, just as I would any other problem caused by deterioration. In the meantime, "prime" was put there for a reason.

4D5254534E4978487840525E15270 wrote:
I guess what Ill do is try to remember to put it on prime if Im gonna be askin for max fuel delivery.


Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by Routy on 10/12/10 at 07:56:38

Quote:
THEORY
Have we just explained the (not so rare) sudden onset of oil consumption issues, the more occasional piston/rings suddenly getting mangled up and the very rare holed piston and popped off valve tulip head?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heres another theory..........
Once the fuel level gets low enough to start to cause lean/heat damage, the engine is coughing and sputtering, which can be define as "the fire is out!" and where there ain't no fire, there ain't no heat, and where there ain't no heat, there ain't no damage ! :o ::)

Hey, one theory is as good as tnother ;)


Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by bill67 on 10/12/10 at 08:20:46


7E716B706C6A797B737D6A180 wrote:
Thats the answer IMO.
I will always defend the vacuum petcock. It is after all, a saftey feature that I believe worth some maintenence every few years if needed.
I went down on gravel a while back,.....took me a few mintutes to regroup,....after a couple seconds the engine quit running, and I didn't have gasoline running all over hot exhaust either.
6,000 miles....no problem yet. If and when it does give me a problem, I will fix it, just as I would any other problem caused by deterioration. In the meantime, "prime" was put there for a reason.
[quote author=4D5254534E4978487840525E15270 link=1286789339/0#14 date=1286882000]I guess what Ill do is try to remember to put it on prime if Im gonna be askin for max fuel delivery.

[/quote]
+1 If mine went bad I would replace it with another stock one,Never had one go bad in 39 years.

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by verslagen1 on 10/12/10 at 09:06:14


4B445E45595F4C4E46485F2D0 wrote:
Heres another theory..........
Once the fuel level gets low enough to start to cause lean/heat damage, the engine is coughing and sputtering, which can be define as "the fire is out!" and where there ain't no fire, there ain't no heat, and where there ain't no heat, there ain't no damage ! :o ::)

Being a long time wicker in a environment that allows mandates higher speeds, I perhaps have more opertunity to experience a sputter due to a low bowl level more than most.  So yes, it does happen and the 1st impulse is to flip it to prime.

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by ralfyguy on 10/12/10 at 09:18:21

I ran it 30 miles the other day with passenger, mostly on full throttle the whole time. I didn't get a stutter or anything. But the issue is that the handle is so hard to turn anymore, it almost requires a pair of pliers. I am afraid it will break off soon. As soon as I get in some moolah I will order me a new one. Mine is an '06 btw.

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by bill67 on 10/12/10 at 09:39:15

Their all hard to turn you should turn it once in a while or it will get harder.

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by Oldfeller on 10/12/10 at 10:02:37


Routy,

If the bowl just ran quickly empty then your "fire is out, no heat" theory would work out.  However, if because of the low input rate the bowl runs lower and lower and lower fuel level for a goodly period of time before the sputter stop then you ran a hotter engine due to an unusually lean fuel mix during that period of time.

Piston rings sticking and minor pistion/cylinder scuffing are something we see occasionally and "sudden onset" of oil consumption is noted as a common enough thing with these engines.  Give them 15,000-20,000 miles and we seem to pick that up on the majority of these engines.  But we all seem to note it "just starts one day" and "it happens when you go faster".


=======================


Here's what I am pulling out of the polling data we have gotten so far.

About half of us ride in a fashion that allows the petcock to show itself.
(yes, if you putt around you may never see the issue)

It isn't a time related (ditto mileage related) thing so much as an inherent to the design thing.  This surprised me.  I expected age and deterioration to be the cause of onset, but all the newer bikes showing up in the poll say otherwise.

It is a bigger issue (number-wise) than I thought it would be.


======================


This causes the question "Does 10% Ethanol gas play in this effect?"  We are running something for fuel these days that is 1) less efficient (requires a higher gas flow rate at high speeds) and 2) something that may affect the flexibility of the diaphragm over time.

The bike wasn't designed or spec'd for ethanol gas -- it didn't exist back then.

The petcock "getting too stiff to turn" is another indication of something making the original petcock design get cranky and start to malfunction.  The Raptors turn fairly easily but then again you turn them on and off every day.


We have a petcock issue, it affects about half of us ...





Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by ralfyguy on 10/12/10 at 10:28:21

Another thing that I can't explain: Back almost three years ago when I bought the bike used, whenever I ran outta gas and switched to reserve and then went to gas up, it took about exactly 2 gallons to fill up. This equaled about 100 miles. Now I run outta gas after about 80 miles, and whenever I fill it up it only takes 1.8 gallons. Had the whole thing out several times and disassembled, put it back together. No dirt or anything in there, but I still run out of gas after 1.8 gallons/80 miles. I put a new vacuum hose on it, and didn't make a difference. I suspect that the diaphragm is too stiff for the vacuum as I don't have any gas in the vacuum line either. Also back in the day when I ran outta gas it was a more sudden shut off, the engine just cut out completely all the sudden. Now it is more like starting to stumble a little at a time and getting more and more, worse when the throttle is opened more. Would still idle, but not accelerate hard.

What do you think?

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by Oldfeller on 10/12/10 at 10:34:39


Got me, I dunno.

Raptors "jest work", they cut out all the symptom confusion crap associated with the vacuum actuated petcock system
(which can flat drive you nuts trying to figure out what's going on sometimes).

I am content flipping a manual petcock on and off, but I understand some folks being reluctant to lose the automatic cut off feature.  They want the reassurance.

We have no guarantee of having enough full open throttle vacuum to move some other vacuum type valve reliably (lack of suck at high speed IS the root issue with the existing petcock after all) so for those that must have a cut off I give you the $20-$22 relatively low cost 12 volt actuated electrical shut off valve ...

http://www.opentip.com/product_info.php?ref=8955&products_id=1747898&affiliate_banner_id=1

http://img.thefind.com/images/SwBrM_j5-hfDL4b0AA6G9MSilNQ8hoySkgIrff3M3MT01GK9_ILUvJLMAr3k_Fz9tNKcHH2noHAQ1jW31HV0czYEAiO9rIJ0BgYA?m=1&g=1

These things also get used in RV's and they have some higher capacity models at about the same price, so look here too and go down to the bottom of the page to see the rest of them.

http://www.twinsrecreation.com/br79-afc11112.html

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by ralfyguy on 10/12/10 at 10:48:21

That's a nice idea. If I still had my machinist shop, I would machine a flange to bolt that valve on the tank and wire it up. NICE!

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by Oldfeller on 10/12/10 at 11:00:37


Those are 1/8 standard nipple fittings, so it is small enough to be supported by the fuel line loop and simply tucked away under the tank/seat junction.  Steal the "on" power from just about any constantly on electrical function.  It draws .75 of one amp for power so it wouldn't stress anything or require you to re-fuse the function you stole the power from.

What's funny to me is the stock vac petcock from Suzuki costs a lot more than a raptor and one of these ...

:D

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by bill67 on 10/12/10 at 11:17:08

I love my pet thingy just the way it is ;D

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by Serowbot on 10/12/10 at 11:24:18

Seeing as the failure rate is nearly 50% within the first ten years, virtually certain eventually,... and failure causes a massive fuel leak,... and this fuel leak occurs while you are running...
I say, it's not a very safe, safety feature... :-?...

If I'm gonna' have a fuel leak,...
I'd rather have it when I go down, or parked,... than while I'm rollin'...

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by Oldfeller on 10/12/10 at 12:34:32


Splitting the diaphragm and puking lots of fuel down the vac hose is only one  (1)  of the many many petcock failure modes.

(yeah, it's the flashiest of the lot as having raw gas puke all over your airbox certainly gets your attention, especially if you have a loose spark taking a hard corner, etc).  

There are MANY more failure modes associated with low fuel flow, jest about half the newbie "it won't run right" questions we get wind up having something to do with an ill petcock.  

I wonder how many jets got changed when the issue was really low bowl fuel levels ....

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by Charon on 10/12/10 at 19:28:38

Oldfeller, I think I'd be a little careful with the poll numbers. As of this writing the poll shows 83 votes, and per your request those who voted YES voted more than once. The forum has over 13000 members, most of whom are presumably inactive. 83 votes from 13000 members isn't a very high percentage reporting, which in itself may make the numbers suspect. And if this group is like many others, only those who have problems feel strongly enough to even vote.

Also, the electric fuel control valve looks like a good idea, except there might be a problem with setting up a Reserve system. One problem is that the fuel tank has only one hole. Another is that in a get-off the valve isn't likely to be shut off unless there is also a bank angle sensor.

10% ethanol gas has existed at least since the late '70s, when they called it "gasohol." I have used it since 1978, at least. The first vacuum petcock I owned was on a 1983 Suzuki Tempter, which ran with no petcock troubles for the 14000 miles I owned it (using gasohol a good part of the time). The Savage hit the road in 1985, somewhat after gasohol came into use. I have to assume Suzuki knew about it, and I would presume they designed their machinery to accept it.

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by Routy on 10/12/10 at 19:31:28


6076617C64717C67130 wrote:
Seeing as the failure rate is nearly 50% within the first ten years, virtually certain eventually,... and failure causes a massive fuel leak,... and this fuel leak occurs while you are running...


Why don't you set up a pole and see how many times this petcock has caused an external major fuel leak that could even come close to being considered a dangerous situation.
You have been here longer than me, but in my 1 1/2 yrs I have not heard of such a situation here.  

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by Routy on 10/12/10 at 19:45:08

Quote:
I wonder how many jets got changed when the issue was really low bowl fuel levels ....
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would bet not a one.
Anyone that has a fuel bowl going down, is going to experience a starving, surging, shutdown situation, about the same as when hitting reserve. Anyone capable of changing jets, is surely going to switch to "prime" before going home and changing jets.

IMO, you all are highly exaggerating the  problems blamed onto the vacuum petcock that is so common on .........most motorcycles ?

And yes, pole numbers are just that,....numbers.

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by Serowbot on 10/12/10 at 19:52:27


545B415A46405351595740320 wrote:
[quote author=6076617C64717C67130 link=1286789339/15#27 date=1286907858]Seeing as the failure rate is nearly 50% within the first ten years, virtually certain eventually,... and failure causes a massive fuel leak,... and this fuel leak occurs while you are running...


Why don't you set up a pole and see how many times this petcock has caused an external major fuel leak that could even come close to being considered a dangerous situation.
You have been here longer than me, but in my 1 1/2 yrs I have not heard of such a situation here.  
[/quote]
No poll,.. but I had it... no fire, but plenty of fuel...

If you ever get it,... it may just change your mind...

I'm not tryin' to imply that it's the Ford Pinto of motorcycles or anything,... but,... as you say I'm exaggerating the danger,... I think the "safety" factor is a little exaggerated too...


Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by verslagen1 on 10/12/10 at 20:08:55


406B62716C6D030 wrote:
Oldfeller, I think I'd be a little careful with the poll numbers. As of this writing the poll shows 83 votes, and per your request those who voted YES voted more than once. 1

2The forum has over 13000 members, most of whom are presumably inactive. 83 votes from 13000 members isn't a very high percentage reporting, which in itself may make the numbers suspect.

#1 Look again no 26 yes 17 total 43, This is an odd poll, total displayed is screwed up.  and even though 17 voted yes, 18 are less than 10 years old, so instructions weren't followed.  add salt.

#2 this might be close to the active daily and maybe 25% of the active monthly.

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by Oldfeller on 10/13/10 at 01:10:33


Charon, just look at the yes I had a problem vs the no I never had a problem.

Think of the sample of members responding as a small random sample of all Savage owners world wide.

Recognizing a generous error of sampling you have approximately 18 had a problem and 27 no problems which maths out to close to 40% of the responders having had petcock issues on the Savage. 18/(18+27)

So, from the sample you can say you have a petcock related issue with the overall population of some significance (perhaps in the range of a third to a half of them).   Or perhaps less than a third, as the data comes flowing in more freely the percentage size of the issue will go down even further to maybe 25-30%.  

That is still a significant issue that is worth fixing.

And what was amazing to me was the bikes were predominately 10 years old or less !!!   This was completely unexpected by me.




Now, I understand your wanting more people to take the poll and respond that they had no issues instead of being slack (like normal people are) and not responding at all.  Can't help you there, any more than I can help that Bill always pokes around all slow like on his scoot and never works on his bike -- ever.  

Some things are outside your control.

Give it time to increase the sample number to close to 100 yes/no responders on the main yes/no situation and the poll results will become more solid and believable.   This will never take place as it will roll off the end of the front page pretty soon and never come back up to the top.  

I might try to do something to try to fix that lack of data, but it will take time to accumulate.    And we can't help people not doing the poll correctly as people won't READ the first post question before clicking with their mice (can't help that either, the poll shows at the top of every page apart from the instructions which are contained in the first post)




So, it is what it is   another BS poll here on the list.

If you want a reliable petcock with a reserve that works, get a Raptor.

If you want an automatic cut off that is issue free, get a Raptor and add in a $22 electric cut off device.







But for heaven's sake, all you newbies out there quit posting these endless "my bike doesn't run right" questions until you have run it in Prime to sort out the petcock issues from the other "real" issues !!!!!!

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by Charon on 10/13/10 at 06:53:53

OF, I am not trying to pick at you, and I appreciate your effort in trying to find the extent of the problem.

Vacuum petcocks have been on a heck of a lot of motorcycles, of most brands, for at least thirty years. As far as I know they have not caused serious safety problems, and a lack of power in traffic is a safety problem that has been addressed by the NTSB is more than a few cars. In fact, the lack of power has also been addressed by the NTSB in motorcycles, but not in relation to vacuum petcocks. I am not referring to "lack of power" in the sense of a moped on the freeway, but in the sense of failure to deliver power when called on to do so. True, vacuum petcocks do fail, but so do fuel pumps, solenoid valves, and most other mechanical/electrical parts. I have even had failures (mostly leaks) in mechanical fuel valves (such as the Raptor).

In any case, the vacuum petcock is a dying breed, as is the carburetor. Both are slowly being replaced by fuel injection.

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by Savage_Amusement on 10/13/10 at 08:04:14

I said no, but to be fair I took it off when the bike had 8k because I installed a whole different tank.

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by EJID on 10/13/10 at 08:13:21

2005 that turned 6500 miles today!!! No issues so far (knock on wood).  ;D

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by bill67 on 10/13/10 at 08:18:41

Most of the time when a motorcycle doesn't run ride it dirty jet,sticking slide or sticking float,A carb cleaner like Sea Foam will usually clear it up.If you put on differenced muffler and air intake you have screwed up the vacuum that the petcock and carb were made for.

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by Bubba on 10/13/10 at 08:46:43

I like my Raptor...when I joined last year I had an intermittent problem when running to work on cold mornings (stalling). Many here made lots of good suggestions but when I installed the Raptor it stopped. Today it was 35 degrees on my ride in (yep, that's pretty cold) I had no problems at all.
I may have had the same result if I replaced my stock petcock with another stock one but the Raptor was cheaper and makes it easier to get my tank off. :)

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by BurnPgh on 10/13/10 at 21:31:57

Yes I had issues. Cutting out at about 65mph after a 20 or so minute ride. I initially just cut the vac line and clamped it down again. No issues after doing that. As soon as the raptor petcock swap came about I went that route to avoid all the other problems I found associated with the stock petcock on others rides. Been golden ever since. Never seen gas in my nonexistent vacuum line. Never had any flow out of the airbox in my beloved "off" (or on for that matter). Never again had a cut out on the highway because the same now nonexitent vac line had an visually undetectable crack/hole.

Simple usually breaks more often but is easier to fix. Complicated breaks less often but when it does...yikes. If you're smart enough to diagnose and fix complicated go for it. Me like simple.

BTW..anyone want a stock petcock? was working and clean 2 years ago. Been sitting in my room in a box ever since.

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/14/10 at 19:52:22

Cool! Yea, Ill take your petcock,,

Anyone wanna swap me one Raptor petcock, for not one, But TWO stock ones?

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by conrod on 10/14/10 at 22:59:04

Had an SR250,  the diaphragm leaked so i converted it to manual. But I just dont trust it at all. Prefer to turn on and off as required. Going to convert my LS650 ASAP to manual

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by matt on 10/25/10 at 10:37:01


75627F24242424100 wrote:
you left out "had petcock issues and now run it in prime 100%" - that's me.


Me too! leaving it on run leaves me with inconsistant results, so i stick with leaving it on prime, havent really had any issues, except for one.. which was recently.
Most time happens while driving fast, well thats when i notice the put put... Thing is, when i stop and sit idle, sometimes the gas starts flowing, and sometimes it does not until i move the switch back and forth and hit the throttle a little.

Ironically i ran out of gas coming home at 2am this weekend, THANKFULLY i slowly rolled right up to a pump..but pump said see casier! had walk across the highway to the BP...

can i pet the raptor?

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by ralfyguy on 10/25/10 at 10:46:11

I just broke down and bought me  a new stock petcock. I didn't have any issues  when riding, just a little inconsistent idle and having to switch to reserve after 1.8 gallons instead of 2 gallons like it used to. The screen on the old one was clean, so I suspect the diaphragm must have been a little stiff. I dunno. We'll see how it is with the new one. Besides that it was almost impossible anymore to turn the lever without pliers. The new one is all easy and smooth. We'll see for how long.

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by Routy on 10/25/10 at 13:53:36

Proud of ya !
And I'll give ya 10 bucks incl ship (5 bucks) for your old one.... if you decide to chuck it :)

4B58555F405E4C40390 wrote:
I just broke down and bought me  a new stock petcock. I didn't have any issues  when riding, just a little inconsistent idle and having to switch to reserve after 1.8 gallons instead of 2 gallons like it used to. The screen on the old one was clean, so I suspect the diaphragm must have been a little stiff. I dunno. We'll see how it is with the new one. Besides that it was almost impossible anymore to turn the lever without pliers. The new one is all easy and smooth. We'll see for how long.


Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by Boofer on 10/25/10 at 15:45:12

That's enough! I'm going with 1/2" delcotranslux reinforced hose with a stainless manual ball valve with a red lever that says "STOP" and "GO". And I'll use 93 octane which is harder to light in a wreck.  

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by ralfyguy on 10/27/10 at 09:55:08


57584259454350525A5443310 wrote:
Proud of ya !
And I'll give ya 10 bucks incl ship (5 bucks) for your old one.... if you decide to chuck it :)
[quote author=4B58555F405E4C40390 link=1286789339/30#44 date=1288028771]I just broke down and bought me  a new stock petcock. I didn't have any issues  when riding, just a little inconsistent idle and having to switch to reserve after 1.8 gallons instead of 2 gallons like it used to. The screen on the old one was clean, so I suspect the diaphragm must have been a little stiff. I dunno. We'll see how it is with the new one. Besides that it was almost impossible anymore to turn the lever without pliers. The new one is all easy and smooth. We'll see for how long.

[/quote]
You really want the old one?

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by babyhog on 10/27/10 at 10:05:13


263538322D33212D540 wrote:
[quote author=57584259454350525A5443310 link=1286789339/45#45 date=1288040016]Proud of ya !
And I'll give ya 10 bucks incl ship (5 bucks) for your old one.... if you decide to chuck it :)
[quote author=4B58555F405E4C40390 link=1286789339/30#44 date=1288028771]I just broke down and bought me  a new stock petcock. I didn't have any issues  when riding, just a little inconsistent idle and having to switch to reserve after 1.8 gallons instead of 2 gallons like it used to. The screen on the old one was clean, so I suspect the diaphragm must have been a little stiff. I dunno. We'll see how it is with the new one. Besides that it was almost impossible anymore to turn the lever without pliers. The new one is all easy and smooth. We'll see for how long.

[/quote]
You really want the old one?[/quote]

I have an old yucky one you can have, if you want it too...  

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by Oldfeller on 10/27/10 at 14:07:26


Well, we now have over twice as many folks reporting as last time I ran the numbers (and Babyhog forgot to click that she had a petcock failure although she reports one in the text and did list that she got a Raptor -- the numbers are off adding back up correctly by one now)

With Babyhog not reporting her petcock failure on the main 2 responses, we have 38.23% having had a petcock issue.   If she had clicked correctly, it would be 39.70%.

So we are still hanging close to 38-40% having had a petcock related failure and the total numbers reporting now are 68 (edging up on 100) and the petcock failure percentage has hung pretty good all along at close to 40%.

The vast majority are from bikes 10 years or younger (still surprises me, that)

Also, the sheer number of Raptor change-outs is racking up more than I thought it would be.   Thought -- with 19 Raptors out there if there was a big issue with folks having float bowl overflows as a repeated issue I think we would have heard about it out of 19 people that are reporting.


Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by babyhog on 10/28/10 at 05:52:35


10333B393A33333A2D5F0 wrote:
Well, we now have over twice as many folks reporting as last time I ran the numbers (and Babyhog forgot to click that she had a petcock failure although she reports one in the text and did list that she got a Raptor -- the numbers are off adding back up correctly by one now)

With Babyhog not reporting her petcock failure on the main 2 responses, we have 38.23% having had a petcock issue.   If she had clicked correctly, it would be 39.70%.

So we are still hanging close to 38-40% having had a petcock related failure and the total numbers reporting now are 68 (edging up on 100) and the petcock failure percentage has hung pretty good all along at close to 40%.

The vast majority are from bikes 10 years or younger (still surprises me, that)

Also, the sheer number of Raptor change-outs is racking up more than I thought it would be.   Thought -- with 19 Raptors out there if there was a big issue with folks having float bowl overflows as a repeated issue I think we would have heard about it out of 19 people that are reporting.


OF, I did not have a petcock failure on my bike!  I reported correctly.  The one that I offered to Routy was one that was on the bike that I got from Lancer that I am now parting out.  I do not have a Raptor at all, on either of my Savages, nor my S40.  

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by Oldfeller on 10/28/10 at 06:31:30


Sorry,  Babyhog, I made those ASSumptions that caused my error based on interpreting what you said running it against what changes the poll information showed -- ASSumptions are not smart to do and I do apologize for my poll ASSumption error.

So it is 37.14% with 70 bikes reported  (and I am not going to assume that Babyhog punched in the rest of her bikes as assuming makes me an ass more often than not and I need to REMEMBER that ,,,,,,)

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by babyhog on 10/28/10 at 06:38:46

Its ok sweetheart, it was a logical ASSumption...   ;)

I did only vote on MY 2006 S40.  I don't think I can vote again, and I don't know the history of my son's bike, so I wouldn't vote it anyway.  The petcock from that parts bike, we pulled because the tank had a hole in it, so it wasn't gonna be used on that tank!  If I remember correctly, we did use that stock one on my son's bike because the seal on his was bad.  But both those bikes had been sitting for some time.

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by Routy on 10/29/10 at 05:11:08

Yeah Babyhog, if you still have it, I'll take the valve.
Just send it same as before, and I'll
send 10 bucks same as before,..... ;)


Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by Oldfeller on 10/31/10 at 03:27:38


..... and it is amusing to me that the ones who still think the stock petcock is a good idea are busy collecting up a spare discarded stock petcock or two for when theirs fails on them ......


Are you gonna put a rebuild kit in it and then store it in a plastic baggie with a little oil in with it to preserve the rubber during storage?


And how old are those diaphragms in that rebuild kit anyway?


hee hee


;D

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/31/10 at 06:11:32

My question is

What role does the corn juice in the gas play in the demise of these rubber parts.

The Accelerator Pump diaphragm went away on the Kawa W 650. The rubber compounds used in these diaphragms were decided on long before any ethanol was put in the gas. Maybe they should be Re-spec-ed with ethanol in the fuel taken into consideration..

But, hey, Im stupid, If you dont think so, ask Mick,

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by Oldfeller on 10/31/10 at 10:29:36


I think the corn juice (ethyl alcohol 10%) plays some role in the diaphragms giving up early and in the needle valve tips sticking in the brass seats -- exactly what that role might be chemically,  I dunno.  

Just a thought though since the big upsurge in "crapped out" petcocks and "stuck in place" needle valves seems to coincide with the roll out of 10% Ethanol gasoline nationwide.


============================


If the Savage stays extant through the next few years (in the E85 roll out years) I would expect to see some better alky proof parts come out of Suzuki that might jest fit into the older bikes as well as "upgrade pieces".

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by Dave on 08/24/12 at 13:18:40

Not sure how my vote scewed (screwed) your data:

I had no problems....yet I replaced the petcock with a Raptor and my bike is less than 10 years old.

I replaced the stock petcock to prevent problems that may have been forthcoming.  I bought a 5 year old bike with 262 miles on it.....it did a lot of sitting around.  I just felt safer with a manual petcock.

Title: Re: Issues with stock vacuum actuated petcock
Post by Blinky on 08/24/12 at 14:03:25

OF. There is another reason to replace the stock petcock not mentioned in your poll. I did it so I could get the tank off easily when doing preventive maintenance. Also, based on all the discussion on the forum about the petcock, I became wary of the vacuum type and decided replacing it with the Raptor to be just another preventive maintenance task.

For what it is worth.

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