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Message started by Jack_650 on 06/21/10 at 18:48:01

Title: Electrical smoke under the tank
Post by Jack_650 on 06/21/10 at 18:48:01

"Danger, danger Will Robinson." Here's my problem.

I turn on the key, flip the red switch on the handlebar, push the starter switch and watch the smoke come out from under the tank and listen to the sizzle.

I pulled the tank and found what appears to be the source of the smoke. It's a plastic socket with what looks like two blue and one green wires going into it with a black "something" the size of a blade fuse plugged into it with "8 x 12" written on it. The white plug and black whach-a-ma-call-it is half melted. No other wires in the bundle it was taped to seem to have been damaged and I can't find any other obvious problem spots. I obviously don't read schematics too well or would know what the part is for.

What am I dealing with here? I would love to be able to fix this quickly as I need two wheeled transport by this Wednesday afternoon if possible.

JC

Title: Re: Electrical smoke under the tank
Post by jef.savage on 06/21/10 at 19:43:11

The wiring diagram shows the "side stand diode" with 2 blues and a green. The only diode I can find in the parts fiche is #2 in the pic.
DIODE 36611-38A00 $7.84 This info and price came from
http://www.boulevardsuzuki.com/
http://images.powersportsnetwork.com/fiche/images/SUZUKI/1996/Motorcycles/1886_25.gif

Title: Re: Electrical smoke under the tank
Post by Jack_650 on 06/21/10 at 20:16:25

So, how would a guy by-pass this thing until I can get the replacement part? Is a by-pass possible and what might have caused it to go bad?

JC

Title: Re: Electrical smoke under the tank
Post by verslagen1 on 06/21/10 at 20:26:49

That diode is actually 2 diodes, you could possibly get 2 1n1004's (ok not sure of the number, just get 2 1amp diodes) and stick 'em in. The arrows or bar marks should both go into the center connector (ok use common sense, I don't know if they'll fit) and one free end in each outer connector.

one side operates the neutral light, you could possibly do w/o that one.
the other go to ground thru the neutral switch.

Title: Re: Electrical smoke under the tank
Post by verslagen1 on 06/21/10 at 21:23:41

here's a quick isolated circuit showing the connections of that diode. If you look at the end of the black plastic thingy, you might see 2 arrows pointing towards the center.
http://verslagen.savageriders.com/Circuits/Diode safety circuit.jpg

Title: Re: Electrical smoke under the tank
Post by Jack_650 on 06/21/10 at 22:31:58

The diode/black thingie is kinda melted/distorted. I was lucky
to be able to read the numbers on the one side of it. Do the
guys who bypass the kickstand switch still have to have this
diode in use? I refuse to go to the dealer here in town, and
he wouldn't have the part anyway. He's an a$$ and not much
of a business man.

I would love to: A) be able to get this thing running tomorrow
so I can get the trip I need done done and stop by the dealer
50 miles from here for the part.
And: B) find out how/why this happened in the first place.

No fuses were blown even when things started to sizzle the
second time around. After the first incident I put the bike
away for a while. Then when I took the tank off it cranked
over fine. The third try there was zero from the starter and
things started smoking again. There doesn't seem to be any
fraying of the wiring bundle, so I haven't a clue as to what
went south on me.

Would a diode going bad be intermittent like that? It's always
been my understanding that they either do or don't work.

Jack

Title: Re: Electrical smoke under the tank
Post by verslagen1 on 06/21/10 at 22:50:02

1D36343C08616267570 wrote:

And: B) find out how/why this happened in the first place.

Then when I took the tank off it cranked over fine.

The third try there was zero from the starter and things started smoking again.

There doesn't seem to be any fraying of the wiring bundle, so I haven't a clue as to what went south on me.

Would a diode going bad be intermittent like that? It's always been my understanding that they either do or don't work.

Somehow you're getting a direct short to a hot lead just north of the diode.
Since you don't get this with the tank is off, start there. What's on the tank? tick, tick, , , , time's up, neutral light. check the leads aren't crossed there. the tank is pretty hard on wiring too.

also, if you got a multimeter, check the voltage from the center wire (if it ain't all burned up of course) to the outside leads (tank and switch on) shouldn't be 12 volts. on the neutral light side some of the volts should be ate up by the light. but it may show full volts if current ain't running. you should be able to short it to ground, that's what the diode did thru the neutral switch. The other side is more complicated, but you should see the same results.

oh I forgot about the diode, no, not intermittent, once they let smoke out they barely hold together.

and yes, it may blow w/out popping a fuse.

Title: Re: Electrical smoke under the tank
Post by Jack_650 on 06/21/10 at 23:32:41

I've got the 5 gallon Harley tank on my bike and have moved
the speedo and all its lights to the handle bars. All that wiring
looks fine.

Guess there's not going to be a quick and ~~dirty~~ easy way
to get this thing running is there? Mechanical I can do well. This
voodoo they call electrical is a different animal all together. Here's
hoping by sometime this Tuesday afternoon someone on here has
come up with a cut and splice to get me rolling for a bit.

Jack

Title: Re: Electrical smoke under the tank
Post by Jack_650 on 06/22/10 at 14:03:50

Well, it seems all the damage to the plug and diode is on the green wire side of the plug. So the short would have to be somewhere on the side stand side, right? Either the wire from the switch or the diode shorting to ???

I hate electrical issues. Have I mentioned that yet? Oh well, back out to risk life and limb and bike.

Jack

Title: Re: Electrical smoke under the tank
Post by Jack_650 on 06/22/10 at 15:04:09

So here it is so far. I get continuity to ground from the center/blue wire - key on or off. I get continuity to ground from the green wire key off. I get continuity between center/blue to green as in ground key off, but I get voltage from green to center with the key on. All of this in neutral, but nothing changes if I push in the side stand switch button.

The only "hot spot I can find is right there where the diode meets the plug on the green wire side of the plug. Could it be as simple as the diode going bad and making things heat up?

The diode is allowing the current to go from green to center/ground or is it the other way 'round? And if it's going green to ground could I jump the two just to test if the starter would engage without melting more insulation?

Jack

Title: Re: Electrical smoke under the tank
Post by verslagen1 on 06/22/10 at 17:34:41

ok back to the dreaded diagram...
http://verslagen.savageriders.com/Circuits/Diode safety circuit.jpg

center wire will be ground in neutral, open in gear.
the blue/black should go positive with key on.
the green wire should go on/off with side stand.

the reason for the diode is so the neutral light and side stand relay won't interfere with each other.

I don't think the diode is your root cause, maybe the side stand relay or the wiring between it and the diode. Some how, there should be some resistance on the wire to the diode from the relay to limit the current.

Title: Re: Electrical smoke under the tank
Post by Digger on 07/06/10 at 20:21:24

Jack,

In case the problems still exists, you can try wiggling the wires to see if you can find the short.

I made a tool to assist me in doing wiggle checks on the wires that saves me from blowing out lots of fuses during the test.

It is a license plate light fixture and harness I removed from an old pickup truck eighteen years ago when I was putting a rear bumper on it:

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/Garage/CircuitTesterE.jpg

I cut off the OEM connector and crimped on some spade connectors to the ends of the two wires:

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/Garage/CircuitTesterLeadsE.jpg

You can see where I filed down the spade connectors so that they would fit into the holder for the fuse.

I pull the fuse on the suspect circuit, plug my tester leads into the fuse holder, turn on the ignition switch, and wiggle away. If I find a short to ground, the light gets really bright.

IHTH!