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Message started by Tiefighterpilot on 05/23/10 at 10:09:02

Title: What type of Fuel do you use?
Post by Tiefighterpilot on 05/23/10 at 10:09:02

I was wondering if everyone used the Premium Fuel... or is it ok to use regular. Its getting expensive to buy fuel... even at 2 Gallons a fill. I thought I read in my owners manual that premium fuel was recommended, but looking it at again, it states minimum 87 octane (regular).

Title: Re: What type of Fuel do you use?
Post by EJID on 05/23/10 at 10:13:11

I use Premium because I don't always ride as frequently as I like. Unlike several of the other members on here I don't rack up the 1,000s of miles every year. I started riding mine late last July and I've only put on about 1,000 miles so far so the difference in fuel cost is not significant.

Title: Re: What type of Fuel do you use?
Post by verslagen1 on 05/23/10 at 10:17:02

Where did you find the premium rec?

I believe (cause I haven't look at it in ages) * says regular.

oops... left out 'owners manual'

Title: Re: What type of Fuel do you use?
Post by klx650sm2002 on 05/23/10 at 10:18:26

I just use the cheap stuff in my thumper but she is liquid cooled, I might use better in an air cooled motor.
Clive W :)

Title: Re: What type of Fuel do you use?
Post by Serowbot on 05/23/10 at 10:26:16

cheapest... :-?...

Title: Re: What type of Fuel do you use?
Post by bill67 on 05/23/10 at 10:52:58

100% gasoline 87 octane

Title: Re: What type of Fuel do you use?
Post by verslagen1 on 05/23/10 at 11:00:48

43484D4D1716210 wrote:

100% gasoline 87 octane

What? no seafoam?

Title: Re: What type of Fuel do you use?
Post by Tiefighterpilot on 05/23/10 at 11:01:15

My mistake... it is regular that is recommended as minimum.

4E5D4A4B54595F5D5609380 wrote:

Where did you find the premium rec?

I believe (cause I haven't look at it in ages) says regular.

Title: Re: What type of Fuel do you use?
Post by bill67 on 05/23/10 at 11:39:17

485B4C4D525F595B500F3E0 wrote:

[quote author=43484D4D1716210 link=1274634542/0#5 date=1274637178]100% gasoline 87 octane

What? no seafoam?[/quote]
1 1/3 ounce of Sea Foam added every 2 months.

Title: Re: What type of Fuel do you use?
Post by Charon on 05/23/10 at 16:06:25

Here in Nebraska they push E-10 (formerly called "gasohol). Sometimes they describe it as "enriched with ethanol." Some on the Forum consider it as "contaminated with ethanol." The E-10 is usually several cents per gallon cheaper. It is usually 89 octane (mid-grade) while the regular is 87 octane. Some stations offer both fuels, while others offer only E-10. Premium is harder to come by, as my brother discovered when he visited (His Mean Streak calls for 91 octane minimum).

I have been using E-10 in cars, motorcycles, and mowers since the late '70s. It has caused no harm to any of my equipment. I have tried to measure differences in fuel mileage, and have been unable to do so. The only effect I ever noted was better knock resistance using E-10 in a '79 Lincoln, probably due to the higher octane.

Because of the reported potential for phase separation in the presence of water, I avoid E-10 in my boat and other two-stroke equipment. Most manufacturers seem to say ethanol should be avoided when equipment is to be stored for a while, such as over-winter. So, come about September I start putting what Bill calls "100% pure gasoline" in the bikes and mowers. That way when I store them in late October most of the ethanol should be out.

Title: Re: What type of Fuel do you use?
Post by mick on 05/23/10 at 16:40:14

062D24372A2B450 wrote:

I once thought ethanol would be a godsend,the more the better,but others in here condemn it.I guess they use 100 % ethanol in Brazil,seems to work ok.

Title: Re: What type of Fuel do you use?
Post by kimchris1 on 05/23/10 at 19:10:09

I use reg as when I did ride I usually rode a tank every few days sometimes twice a week.

Title: Re: What type of Fuel do you use?
Post by Tiefighterpilot on 05/23/10 at 21:51:13

I think I will be switching to reg with Marvel Mystery Oil.

Title: Re: What type of Fuel do you use?
Post by babyhog on 05/24/10 at 05:53:55

I use regular... when I first got the bike, I used premium. But then I asked the gas station attendant how much premium they sell, and he said "hardly none!". I don't know how often they change out the tanks, if the fuel doesn't get used, and after reading discussion here about gas getting stale, I switched to regular. I haven't seen any negative difference. I actually get better gas mileage now, but I think that can be attributed to more things than gas, so I don't actually know the effect of the gas change. But to me, fresh regular is better than stale premium! :)

Title: Re: What type of Fuel do you use?
Post by bill67 on 05/24/10 at 07:26:45

You will have less power on premium gas,because it burns slower ,It would be the same as retarding your spark.

Title: Re: What type of Fuel do you use?
Post by Starlifter on 05/24/10 at 07:41:55

Who voted for 'jet fuel'? Jp 4 (jet fuel) is a low grade kerosine. :o

Title: Re: What type of Fuel do you use?
Post by bill67 on 05/24/10 at 07:49:13

I did for a joke I knew no one else would.

Title: Re: What type of Fuel do you use?
Post by photojoe on 05/24/10 at 14:18:59

Usually unleaded plus, but will splurge for premium if the bikes been sitting for a while, like the winter months. I'll add a shot of Jack Daniel's to the fuel on occasion just to keep her happy.

Title: Re: What type of Fuel do you use?
Post by mick on 05/24/10 at 16:21:51

372F2833282D28470 wrote:

Usually unleaded plus, but will splurge for premium if the bikes been sitting for a while, like the winter months. I'll add a shot of Jack Daniel's to the fuel on occasion just to keep her happy.

what a thoughtfull owner you are :)

Title: Re: What type of Fuel do you use?
Post by Tiefighterpilot on 05/24/10 at 21:41:42

Huh? :-/ It don't make sense... don't race cars use higher octane fuel?
So if I use super unleaded, which has more octane than regular, it would be less performance? Is there another variable that I am forgetting?

Thanks.

73787D7D2726110 wrote:

You will have less power on premium gas,because it burns slower ,It would be the same as retarding your spark.

Title: Re: What type of Fuel do you use?
Post by bill67 on 05/25/10 at 03:20:50

If you advanced your spark then higher octane would give you more power.

Title: Re: What type of Fuel do you use?
Post by mpescatori on 05/25/10 at 03:39:41

Two things :

1) In Europe the octane rating is calculated in a different way, so EU pumps will sell 91, 94, 98 octane.
It is quite possibly the equivalent to your 89, 92, 94 octane fuels.

2) Octane is an anti-detonant, meaning higher grade gasoline will not detonate (which is bad) in high compression engines;
this means that higher performance engines, with higher compression and more advanced spark timings, will demand high octane fuel;
on the other hand, a VW Beetle (the real one, the air-cooled flat four) will be quite happy with the lowest grade fuel because of the very low compression and retarded spark.

Now, having said all this, the Savage, with its relatively mild performance rating, should be happy with just about any fuel.
I have used both the "Italian regular" 94 octane (91 to you maybe) and the "Italian Premium" 98 octane (94 to you maybe) and noticed no difference other than a more regular idle with 98 RON.
On the other hand, as most of my riding is actually 6-lane beltway commuting, the lower grade fuel and an eye on a not-too-low idle will keep the bike happy just the same,
and give me a cuppa more fuel in the tank. ;)

Title: Re: What type of Fuel do you use?
Post by bill67 on 05/25/10 at 05:40:11

Newer car's computers adjust for the octane so on cars it doesn't make as much difference but still use what they tell you to use.It can mess up the computer if you always use the wrong octane.

Title: Re: What type of Fuel do you use?
Post by Tiefighterpilot on 05/26/10 at 23:24:08

I learn something everytime I visit this site... Great info.

Title: Re: What type of Fuel do you use?
Post by LANCER on 05/27/10 at 02:04:50

At just 8.5:1 compression ratio the stock engine does fine with 87 octane. I tried 91/92 octane on occasion but noticed no difference.

Now however, with the CR up in the 10.5:1 range I will go with the premium fuel and higher octane to control the burn and avoid the nasty knocking effect.

When in college the first time around (it was an aerospace engineering type school) most of the guys with hotrods were using aviation fuel due to its higher octane rating; mixing it with the "high test" gas from the pump ...somewhere in the 110-120 range if my feeble memory serves me correctly.
Any current pilots know what it is now days ?

Title: Re: What type of Fuel do you use?
Post by earlytimz on 05/27/10 at 07:48:00

Most woods-buggy people I ride with mix 50-50 high octane "Red Lightning" race fuel & 93 octane gasoline. These are mild to wild VW engines usually with higher compression ratios. Some run straight race fuel, but at $7-$8 a gallon it becomes a very expensive weekend hobby. Mine isn't as wild as others & actually does ok on straight 93.

There's a few places around here that sell the e-85 (85% ethanol). It's normally 60-70 cents cheaper/ gallon than gas & I believe it's 104 octane. My silverado isn't a flex fuel vehicle, but it loves the stuff. Runs like a scared rabbit! Not positive, but I think any newer vehicle (within 10 years or so) can use it without problems (even though the manufacturers don't recommend it). Naturally aspirated engines have to be tuned for it, since ethanol is less efficient (pound for pound) than gasoline & requires bigger jets. Newer cars' computers compensate for this. The only downside is a slight drop in fuel mileage.

With bigger jets, I bet the savage would do great on e-85. I would try it, but the closest station that sells it is an hour way from me. Don't confuse "ethanol" with "methanol" (the race fuel that will eat your fuel lines & everything out of your carb!)

Oh and it actually does smell just like moonshine.. I wouldn't drink it though!!

Title: Re: What type of Fuel do you use?
Post by Gort on 05/27/10 at 08:30:17

The reason some members use higher octane gas in their Savage has to do with engine temperatures. High temp summers with a lot of stop and start traffic driving or prolonged idling can cause the air cooled engine to overheat. This then increases the temperature of the combustion inside the cylinder head, causing hot spots. The hot spots detonate lower octane gas before the spark plug does. When that happens, pre-ignition occurs, which can be very damaging to the piston. Higher octane gas ignites at higher temperatures, thus compensating for the hot spots because they are not hot enough to ignite it. In the past, some members living in hot summer climates have reported pre-ignition after instances of prolonged idling, and have found that a higher octane gas eliminated the problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking

Title: Re: What type of Fuel do you use?
Post by Tiefighterpilot on 05/30/10 at 00:04:54

Thanks Gort. That was really good info. I live in west cost where it can get pretty hot. I will switch to super unleaded if I get knocks.

Title: Re: What type of Fuel do you use?
Post by WD on 05/30/10 at 17:23:44

Since Pokey has been sitting for the last two years, I've been running her on the highest test E-10 I can get my hands on. With a 3 stages hotter plug to help burn out any gum, shellac and related crap from the downtime. Another month of commuting and weekend riding and I'll go back to my standard 1 stage hotter plug, since the carb is running 155/55 jetting with a free breathing air box mod and pretty much open exhaust. Stock plug + regular gas = a plug every other month with my current set up.

If your basically stock bike is running fine, run the cheap stuff. Mine fired up and ran (smoked like a diesel) on the old stale regular from late 2007. Fouled the plug out in half an hour, but, it ran.

Title: Re: What type of Fuel do you use?
Post by bill67 on 05/30/10 at 19:59:57

Why didn't you empty the tank and put new gas in.

Title: Re: What type of Fuel do you use?
Post by WD on 05/30/10 at 20:30:01

Didn't expect the bike to actually fire up, since I was shorting across the solenoid with a screw driver. Start button circuit in the ignition relay is fragged.

Dismounting the tank on mine is even trickier than the stock tank set up. I won't drain a tank through the petcock with the tank on the bike.

I've been riding it pretty regularly for the last couple months now, no issues. $10 to bypass the relay, premium fuel, hot plug. Runs better than it did showroom new, hard to believe I picked it up with 1 mile on the odometer 12 years ago.