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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> belt squeak and rear pulley play
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Message started by roosky on 12/06/09 at 17:04:16

Title: belt squeak and rear pulley play
Post by roosky on 12/06/09 at 17:04:16

I've got a 2008 S40, totally stock, with 7600 miles on it. I've had problems with belt squeak and adjusted it many times, following the little user manual and advice from a Harley friend with a belt. The latest problem for the last few hundred miles is a bad squeak that caused me to look at everything real hard and notice that the rear wheel pulley has some play in it if I grab it by both hands and rock it back and forth. I have ALWAYS tightened the axle nut to specs with a torque wrench when messing with the belt adjustment. I tightened it a little more to see if the pulley would lose some play but it didn't. I think the play in the pulley is related to the squeak in the belt. Advice about this would be real welcome.

Roosky

Title: Re: belt squeak and rear pulley play
Post by verslagen1 on 12/06/09 at 17:22:01

There are rubber dampers that are inbetween the pulley and the hub.
And there's a bearing between the pulley and the axle.
Could be the bearing is wore out, could be your dampers are too loose.

also it could be that your bike is bent.

My method for checking the belt alignment is different from the rest.
Lift the rear, take it out of gear and spin the wheel by hand.  watch the belt if it tracks to one side readjust to center it.  then reverse the direction of spin and recheck the belt.

Now with a wobly pulley, this might not work.  But I've done it on 3 bikes, one I'd adjusted incorrectly and it squeaked and another that was brought to me squeaking.  One more that I took completely apart and put back together with no problems.

Title: Re: belt squeak and rear pulley play
Post by roosky on 12/06/09 at 17:57:16

There's no mention of rubber dampers in the dumb little book, but I'll look for them and see what they look like.

Could a bearing be shot after 7600 miles???
Could a bike be bent after 7600 miles, with no crashes and no drops???

Thanx for the swift reply.

Roosky

Title: Re: belt squeak and rear pulley play
Post by photojoe on 12/06/09 at 19:28:36


424E444C5E554C2D0 wrote:
There's no mention of rubber dampers in the dumb little book, but I'll look for them and see what they look like.

Could a bearing be shot after 7600 miles???
Could a bike be bent after 7600 miles, with no crashes and no drops???

Thanx for the swift reply.

Roosky

Dampers part number 4 on the fiche here are called 64651-31001
ABSRBR,SHOCK RR HUB:
http://fiche.ronayers.com/Index.cfm/Module/Main/TypeID/26/Type/Motorcycle/MakeID/2/Make/Suzuki/YearID/28/Year/1987/ModelID/6508/Model/LS650F_SAVAGE/GroupID/272709/Group/REAR_WHEEL
Click on the diagram to enlarge.

Title: Re: belt squeak and rear pulley play
Post by Digger on 12/07/09 at 21:17:36

Another way to check rear wheel alignment:

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1183995917

Title: Re: belt squeak and rear pulley play
Post by roosky on 12/08/09 at 17:45:17

Thanks for the great tips on wheel alignment/belt adjustment, but I have a related question. How much play is normal if you grab the rear pulley with both hands and rock it back and forth (alternately pushing on one side while pulling on the other)? Should there be any?

Title: Re: belt squeak and rear pulley play
Post by Digger on 12/08/09 at 19:15:16


7E727870626970110 wrote:
Thanks for the great tips on wheel alignment/belt adjustment, but I have a related question. How much play is normal if you grab the rear pulley with both hands and rock it back and forth (alternately pushing on one side while pulling on the other)? Should there be any?


Roo,

I just checked mine (my bike is in my signature).  With the belt on and at normal tension, mine wiggles a little less than 1/16" (estimated) as measured at the edge of the pulley.  My bike has 10,000 miles on it.

IHTH!

Title: Re: belt squeak and rear pulley play
Post by roosky on 12/16/09 at 14:31:27

Digger:

Thanks for the reply. Mine moves about the same amount, and that was actually measuring it, so I guess that's not what's causing all the squeeking.

Roosky

Title: Re: belt squeak and rear pulley play
Post by MMRanch on 12/16/09 at 19:29:36

Roosky

I put a new bearing in and it still wiggles.  Now I use Black Wax Shoe Polish  (in the can)
Makes the belt look good and no more squeek.

Title: Re: belt squeak and rear pulley play
Post by roosky on 12/17/09 at 18:03:45

MMRanch

What do you put the shoe polish on with, a toothbrush, rag, or ?
And do you just do the sides?

Roosky

Title: Re: belt squeak and rear pulley play
Post by Digger on 12/17/09 at 19:30:07


1F0D1F0D00131C111A520 wrote:
Roosky

I put a new bearing in and it still wiggles.  Now I use Black Wax Shoe Polish  (in the can)
Makes the belt look good and no more squeek.


I don't think a fresh bearing is going to keep the rear pulley from having some play in it.

It rides suspended by rubber dampers.  There is going to be some movement, I'm pretty sure.

Title: Re: belt squeak and rear pulley play
Post by WEZTIE on 01/03/10 at 19:16:00

I has this problem recently and the shop did everything they could to align everything up and it still squeaked! They dusted chalk powder on it as well but made it worse! In the end they smeared a little rubber grease on about 4-5 teeth on the belt. A couple of revs and the squeak vanished never to come back .. 200km anyway. I now have bought a tube of silicon grease for the garage if it happens again !

Title: Re: belt squeak and rear pulley play
Post by 05 Suzi on 05/12/10 at 05:05:55


5C505A52404B52330 wrote:
MMRanch

What do you put the shoe polish on with, a toothbrush, rag, or ?
And do you just do the sides?

Roosky


I went for a aride yesterday, and on the way home I heard a squeek (coming from somewhere on the left side either @ my boot or behind it) I have only heard this once before, after riding a short distance on a dirt road and it did not do it when I first took off. Should I try this "shoe polish" trick? BTW, I washed her yesterday, making sure I rinsed the belt really well (thinking this may help) PLEASE advise, as I'd like to head off any potential real problems.   Thanks,  Chris

This is probably in the wrong catagory, but could not figure out how to quote in different catagory  :(

Title: Re: belt squeak and rear pulley play
Post by WEZTIE on 05/12/10 at 23:22:50

I had , and still have this problem with the drive belt. when it gets dry it gives a squeak especially when the power is on.  The local Suzuki agent tried everything , and it was when they put a little bit of rubber grease on the drive belt that the squeak disappeared. I have bought some silicon grease which can be used with rubber, and smear it on 1/2 doz teeth on the drive belt, and that fixes it for a while. Its not serious so long as everything is aligned properly.

Title: Re: belt squeak and rear pulley play
Post by macman3 on 05/14/10 at 21:34:27

Suzi,  I had this squeaky problem too.  You wanna make sure the belt is aligned on the front and rear pulleys.  This is very important and there is much information on this site about how to do that.  Also, need to make certain the belt tension is correct.  The way I got rid of my squeaky was to clean the belt real good and then put some Armor All "original protectant" on it.  That is the same stuff I put on the seat and other rubber/plastic/vinyl parts.  It seems to last a long time and I suppose its good for it.  The shoe polish wax I haven't tried but that sounds like a good idea too.  Good luck and safe riding.

Title: Re: belt squeak and rear pulley play
Post by 05 Suzi on 05/19/10 at 05:09:41

Thanks, I will have hubby try "all of the above" as it's annoying as hell >:(

Title: Re: belt squeak and rear pulley play
Post by bill67 on 05/19/10 at 14:47:52

They claim Armor All drys out rubber I don't know that but have heard that.

Title: Re: belt squeak and rear pulley play
Post by WD on 05/31/10 at 19:50:51

All that fuss and goop for such a simple problem...

Your belt is too tight. Loosen off the adjusters until you can twist the belt 90 degrees to itself. A tight twist, your fingernail bed should blanch.

Suzuki sets the belt too tight. Kawasaki sets the belt too tight. HD sets the belt too tight.

If you have the little brass belt tensioner gauge that came with my 98 it makes a good fishing weight. 'bout all it is good for.

I've been running mine this way since not long after I bought it in 1998. Stone stock showroom new. Mike at Suzuki City in Biloxi MS set it up per the book, had me ride it and showed me the twist trick. Hasn't squeaked since unless it gets FILTHY.

For your belt cleaning, soap and water. As far as belt dressing, don't. It eats the synthetic rubber and the synthetic cording.

Title: Re: belt squeak and rear pulley play
Post by 05 Suzi on 06/01/10 at 11:28:47

Thanks for the input....I have not done any of the "fuss & goop". Actually, I washed her real good paying special attention to the belt area, making sure that I rinsed that area VERY well. Dried and polished her (I love Turtle Wax ICE) took her for a couple of spins around the block and no more problems (so far)  I won't try to fix it if it aint broke   ;)

Title: Re: belt squeak and rear pulley play
Post by Serowbot on 06/01/10 at 11:36:49

Anything you put on the belt, will quiet it 'till it wears off, (not long)...
Try scuffing the sides and teeth edges with a coarse sandpaper... ;)...

... or use an angle grinder to bevel the belt teeth edges...
http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt82/serowbot/belt2.jpg

Title: Re: belt squeak and rear pulley play
Post by WD on 06/02/10 at 19:42:04

I snapped a belt on an FXWG I was the less than thrilled owner of. Broke the inner primary when it let go. My riding partner Drifter Doug had one of his Harleys crack the tranny case the belt was so tight (showroom floor new) within a couple months of purchase. His son's 95 FXD (base model Dyna) arrived with bent rear pulley, bent transmission output shaft and bent rear axle courtesy of the local HD stealership.

Running a belt set too tight is a recipe for disaster. When I manage to grenade my stock belt my Savage will run the same chain as her 1957 Panhead stablemate, a 530 o-ring.

Title: Re: belt squeak and rear pulley play
Post by fortysixand2 on 07/13/18 at 00:38:41

Good tip! Mine has never squealed before but does now. Thought it could be worn bearing or cush rubbers causing too much play in the pulley but now I think it might just be a dirty, maybe a little too tight, belt. Will clean it good and do what you did to the edges.


7462756870656873070 wrote:
Anything you put on the belt, will quiet it 'till it wears off, (not long)...
Try scuffing the sides and teeth edges with a coarse sandpaper... ;)...

... or use an angle grinder to bevel the belt teeth edges...
http://i600.photobucket.com/albums/tt82/serowbot/belt2.jpg


Title: Re: belt squeak and rear pulley play
Post by Dave on 07/13/18 at 03:24:49


262F323439332938212E2472400 wrote:
Good tip! Mine has never squealed before but does now. Thought it could be worn bearing or cush rubbers causing too much play in the pulley but now I think it might just be a dirty, maybe a little too tight, belt. Will clean it good and do what you did to the edges.


Go to the Tech Section and look for the rubber floor mat modification to remove the "wobble" from the rear cush drive.  The rear pulley bearing wears and allows the rear pulley to thingy forward from the belt tension....then the belt no longer tracks straight and rubs on the outside of the front pulley.

(PS....WD was a good mechanic and is correct- running a belt too tight is not a good thing.  The belt should not be as tight as a banjo string, and you should be able to twist the bottom of the belt 90 degrees just using your fingertips.  WD seemed to be able to break a ball bearing with a banana and his bikes were constantly broken!  He was always breaking something.)

Title: Re: belt squeak and rear pulley play
Post by Tocsik on 07/13/18 at 12:02:38

I had bad belt squeak and first made sure my belt wasn't too tight.  I run a 140/90 rear tire and an oversize front pulley so it's actually hard to get my belt as loose I would like.  
Then I sanded the edges with coarse paper.  Then I used an angle grinder to bevel the edges even more.  Nothing lasted.
Used black shoe polish on the edges and it helped temporarily, as described, until it wore off.

What finally fixed it was the rubber floor mat shim.  Completely silent now.

Title: Re: belt squeak and rear pulley play
Post by faffi on 07/13/18 at 12:22:40

Shouldn't the pulley carrier be clamped tight against the spacer/wheel bearing, preventing a wobble? If the bearing is worn, it should be replaced. Or am I missing something?

Title: Re: belt squeak and rear pulley play
Post by verslagen1 on 07/13/18 at 12:56:50

the pulley should be able to move against the wheel hub or it will grind until it can.
the floor mat mod makes it fit tight while preventing metal to metal contact.

Title: Re: belt squeak and rear pulley play
Post by Dave on 07/13/18 at 18:35:55


5A5D5A5A553C0 wrote:
Shouldn't the pulley carrier be clamped tight against the spacer/wheel bearing, preventing a wobble? If the bearing is worn, it should be replaced. Or am I missing something?


The inner bearing race is clamped and locked in place when the rear axle is tightened.  The outer race is pushed into the pulley hub....and there is an eccentric load that gradually wears on the bearing and allows the pulley to go out of alignment.

The rubber floor mat mod works on new or slightly worn bearing.....the better cure is to install a brass bushing on the pulley hub that allows the wheel hub to hold the pulley hub in alignment.

The "pulley wobble" thread is here:
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1480506578


Title: Re: belt squeak and rear pulley play
Post by batman on 07/13/18 at 20:34:20

If you adjusted it according to the Suzuki "little book "you used the gauge  that comes with the bike's tool kit,  to set the tension, that tool is worthless! it sets the belt tension to tight ! adjust the belt so that you can twist the bottom section 90 degrees using your bare hand.

Title: Re: belt squeak and rear pulley play
Post by SoC on 07/13/18 at 21:09:32

Thanks all for this informative update. I have been experiencing a bit of this myself and this answers many questions and relieves a lot of anxiety.

Title: Re: belt squeak and rear pulley play
Post by faffi on 07/14/18 at 13:44:11


1E25283F2E22393F242C213E4D0 wrote:
The inner bearing race is clamped and locked in place when the rear axle is tightened.  The outer race is pushed into the pulley hub....and there is an eccentric load that gradually wears on the bearing and allows the pulley to go out of alignment.

The rubber floor mat mod works on new or slightly worn bearing.....the better cure is to install a brass bushing on the pulley hub that allows the wheel hub to hold the pulley hub in alignment.

The "pulley wobble" thread is here:
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1480506578


Thank you. Is this a more or less permanent fix, or will that also wear out in the short or not so long term?

Title: Re: belt squeak and rear pulley play
Post by Dave on 07/15/18 at 14:46:55

I have not heard of  anyone wearing out their rubber floor mat shims.  This modification  has only been around for 4 years or so.

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