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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Technical Documents/Reference >> Mini-battery install /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1259644714 Message started by Boule’tard on 11/30/09 at 21:18:34 |
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Title: Mini-battery install Post by Boule’tard on 11/30/09 at 21:18:34 Ok guys, I finally got the Thanksgiving pies baked and that stupid dishwasher installed and most importantly, replaced the battery on my bike with a small one and mounted it on the "shelf" or emissions/muffler mount thingy below the swingarm. On some other thread I mentioned that the largest battery that would fit there is a Yuasa YTZ7S. There are smaller batteries of different chemistry that are a little smaller and still provide enough starting amperage, but they cost a fortune. The Yuasa is also sold for a few bucks less as the Motocross YTZ7S. Still made in Japan by Yuasa. http://i38.tinypic.com/zo6qur.jpg Some other things I gathered were the connectors and a boot for the + terminal. The connectors are for 6 gauge wire which is larger than necessary, but I had to cram a couple extra wires in there for the horn relay. There is also an extra wire that goes from the negative terminal to the brain box. I didn't know what kind of boot to get, so I just cut the stock one to match the connector and battery. http://i46.tinypic.com/dwykw6.jpg A few other supplies are some 3/8" threaded rod, a couple of wingnuts to match, and some 1 3/8" wide, 1/16" thick metal stock with the 3/8" holes. I didn't get a picture of the 8 gauge wire or heat shrink insulation, but obviously you need some electical stuff not shown. http://i45.tinypic.com/125jfh5.jpg |
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Title: Re: Mini-battery install Post by Boule’tard on 11/30/09 at 21:42:44 All right, part 2 - some fabrication of the brackets. Cut off a couple of 1/2" pieces of threaded rod http://i46.tinypic.com/9st5cp.jpg And square off your metal bar so that a wingnut threaded on a piece in one of the holes has something to tighten against.. http://i46.tinypic.com/2qsvrm8.jpg Make your forward piece first.. 3.5" over and 2.5" up.. http://i48.tinypic.com/dfv9mx.jpg Stick it in a vise and bend it 90 degrees.. http://i50.tinypic.com/21b83ew.jpg Cut and bend the aft piece such that when the holes are lined up, the area captured is the length of your battery.. http://i45.tinypic.com/2m0h14.jpg Cut and bend the side pieces. Note that the parts are sitting flat on the block (not lapped) but you could do it that way if you wanted to ;) http://i49.tinypic.com/35j9ufm.jpg Zap it together with a mig welder, sticking the bolts out the bottom. If you don't have a welder, this could be done with flat-headed bolts and lapping the side pieces. Welds are already ground and cleaned up for the sake of modesty ;D Oh yeah.. breathing fumes from galvanized metal.. that's bad. http://i50.tinypic.com/acbkw0.jpg Before we go off to the electrical work, let's do a couple things that need to dry.. threadlock on the wingnuts.. http://i50.tinypic.com/j5w9jo.jpg And paint the brackets. Note that I also glued some pond liner in there to pad the battery. An easier way would be to stretch a few sections of inner tube (bicycle size) over the tabs. http://i50.tinypic.com/s6uq0l.jpg |
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Title: Re: Mini-battery install Post by Boule’tard on 11/30/09 at 21:55:34 Ok.. I hate it when my electrical connections look like a snake eating an egg, and I didn't have any butt connectors that large. So I just braided the wires together, then wrapped it tightly with solid copper and crimped it down. http://i49.tinypic.com/2vl63gx.jpg A couple layers of insulation, some heat, and it's good. http://i48.tinypic.com/ogjodz.jpg Same thing with that smaller wire from the ECU or whatever it is.. http://i46.tinypic.com/2irw2dh.jpg It's good to have some of this plastic coily stuff to protect the wires, and it keeps things neat when you have extra wires you don't want flapping in the breeze. http://i47.tinypic.com/2yx0kl4.jpg And I already showed the battery connectors, right? Good deal. |
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Title: Re: Mini-battery install Post by Boule’tard on 11/30/09 at 22:25:19 Now that our brackets are good and dry, let's see how they fit together. Why, though holes drilled through the shelf, that's how. The front of the bike is to the left. The forward and side brackets sit on the shelf, and the bolts stick downward through it. The aft bracket is held on, under the shelf by the wingnuts. I put an extra layer of pond liner on the aft bracket to level things up. http://i47.tinypic.com/10zv6lf.jpg Here it is looking through the belt, ready for me to remove the aft bracket and slip the battery in. http://i49.tinypic.com/2m4ozuh.jpg Yay, I got the battery all snug in its little spot. A couple of caveats: If you are running long shocks, there is a danger of the swingarm smacking against the battery if it is too far back. And the + terminal is at the rear edge of the battery.. so watch out for that. Also, the shelf is just barely long enough for the two bolt holes spaced out so that the wingnuts don't interfere with each other. It would be better to put the bolts side by side, in a couple of longitudinal slots that would allow you to shift the battery forward or backward to eliminate the possibility of clearance issues. Live and learn. http://i49.tinypic.com/msf0p0.jpg It was suggested that my ulterior motive for this little project was to make the bike look better and YES, dammit, ALL THIS TIME the real purpose was to make room for my bobble-headed Steve IrwinTM doll.. may he live on, warming his reptile friend by my Savage engine. http://i48.tinypic.com/kboj5y.jpg Actually I don't know what to do with the hole. Probably make a nice aluminum diamondjim-style plate and put my lunch on it :P The bike started right up on this cold November evening just the same as with the original battery. Of course I had topped it up before trying it for the first time. If I have any trouble with it over the next few months I'll post about it here. Hope you guys like this little mod, and questions are welcome. |
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Title: Re: Mini-battery install Post by verslagen1 on 11/30/09 at 23:10:53 Tail end of the battery bracket would be a good place for the rectumfrier. |
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Title: Re: Mini-battery install Post by Boule’tard on 12/01/09 at 06:41:38 607364657A7771737827160 wrote:
Yeah there's plenty of air circulation down there, you'd just have to make sure the fins didn't load up with mud. Along those lines, I'll be watching for any moisture or crud-related issues. It started up great this morning, any colder and I wouldn't have taken the bike :D |
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Title: Re: Mini-battery install Post by Boule’tard on 01/14/10 at 07:33:02 51766B6F727B020 wrote:
Thanks. It's an absorbed glass-mat (AGM) battery, and the last one of those I had lasted 8 years. Of course, that was a full size battery like the bike came with. On this application I imagine the cranking amps will start to seem weak after about 6 years. I think the most important factor is how you treat the battery. That is, start it off with a good charge and don't let it sit for long periods less than fully charged. The PO of my bike neglected it, so the stock battery only lasted 4 years. Plus it was a heavy, maintenance-required item with a puke tube. The AGM should be less trouble overall. |
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Title: Re: Mini-battery install Post by Boule’tard on 01/26/10 at 15:38:15 Sorry for the delay Bobbert, I'm still waiting for that throttle cable from MotionSlow. Anyway, I threw the bike together for the the side views.. Right: http://i46.tinypic.com/xmjslf.jpg Left: http://i46.tinypic.com/2j3ijwz.jpg I like how the battery all but disappears, though there is still some awkwardness to be worked out with the side tins. 575A525E5C5D57595A5E330 wrote:
Thank you Jim, coming from you that's the highest forum-complement I've ever been paid. |
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Title: Re: Mini-battery install Post by Boule’tard on 01/26/10 at 17:17:27 Yeah, the S40 is by far the most passenger-friendly bike I have, so I keep the back footpegs and stock seat for occasional use. I did get rid of the sissy bar by trading side-rails with another member here. It seems like the next thing that needs to change is the license plate bracket and light. The red taillight doesn't offend me too much (though if it were smaller, there might be room on the fender for the other junk). |
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Title: Re: Mini-battery install Post by Boule’tard on 03/03/10 at 14:41:55 34353B30343136302D31305E0 wrote:
The original battery was getting weak and I had to replace it anyway. When I pulled it out and saw that it was half the size of a car battery, I knew a good AGM battery could be found that would supply enough starting amperage and not weigh a ton. The AGM is also maintenance free and needs no vent tube. |
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Title: Re: Mini-battery install Post by Boule’tard on 02/21/12 at 16:42:40 6D6B574B564E534651230 wrote:
Cold Cranking Amps or CCA is the spec that equates to "cranking balls" and 125-130 amps does just fine. A 6-7ah battery will typically have that.. but check. |
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Title: Re: Mini-battery install Post by HondaLavis on 09/22/12 at 22:13:07 I just completed this same mod, and I have a few question: How long is your "idle time" that you can sit with the key on and the engine off before the battery gets run down? I noticed that I had the key on for about 10 minutes while talking to family, saying goodbyes, and by the time I went to start it, I got the solenoid click. I know it's a BIG downstep going from a 14AH battery to a 6AH battery. A couple of notes for anybody at home thinking about doing this mod: - I had previously swapped my airbox out for a cone filter, and I chopped the sides off of the airbox to keep my side covers. If you don't like the thought of lengthening the cables, you can move a few things. My solenoid is now mounted to the plastic bracket holding my CDI, allowing the positive terminal to reach easily. I also moved the negative cable so that now instead of mounting to the engine, it mounts to where the old battery box used to be. - The remnants of my airbox holding up the R/H side cover are about 2 inches deep, and I plan on putting a back on it, turning it into a little cubby hole where I can store my toolbag. I always have a gerber on me, so undoing a couple of screws to get to my wrenches isn't a big deal. 8-) - If you aren't a great welder (like me) you can get away with doing this project with carriage bolts. HOWEVER, there is VERY LITTLE vertical clearance between the top of the battery and the rear frame support tube just behind the engine. I'm not so worried about shorting since it's the negative terminal, but I'd be more concerned about vibration. - I needed some padding underneath the battery to protect it from my ground down carriage bolts, and all we had was a thin bicycle inner tube. This worked out great! I cut the tube in half long-ways and used the adhesive from a tire repair kit to create a boot to wrap around the sides of the battery. I then used the same process to create a doubled-over boot that went front to back down one side of the battery, across, then up the other side. Tuck those sides under the original wrap-around, and voila! You have a little battery condom! |
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Title: Re: Mini-battery install Post by Boule’tard on 01/05/13 at 07:36:10 7C5B5A50557855425D47340 wrote:
That will have to be for someone else to test, as I don't have the bike anymore. Looking back at these pictures makes me wish I still had it. I guess the answer to how long you can leave the ignition (w/headlight) on and still have enough CCA to start the engine depends mainly on temperature and battery newness/quality/condition/charge. But now at least we know it's less than 10 minutes [smiley=cheesy.gif] ..for a presumably new and hopefully topped-up battery. The margin of error is very small on this mod, both for the battery's capacity and the space for it. As Gyro suggests, maybe the newer lithium-ion batteries will increase those margins so fewer people will have trouble with this mod. |
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Title: Re: Mini-battery install Post by batman on 07/15/17 at 06:41:19 Note that turning the key on and not starting the bike can damage (read burn up) the cdi ignition module ,on any savage/s-40 ,a costly mistake! |
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Title: Re: Mini-battery install Post by RazBarlow on 11/14/17 at 08:21:18 Has anyone found a battery with the same dimensions but more CCA but not cost a fortune ? Thanks |
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Title: Re: Mini-battery install Post by batman on 03/12/18 at 16:41:23 If you turn the key on and don't start the bike ,you could have bigger problems than a dead battery, you could fry the ignition module. It's a No-No! |
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Title: Re: Mini-battery install Post by playhard67 on 11/08/18 at 15:40:10 I see the original OP posted this 9 years ago. Is there a current battery recommended for this small shelf? |
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Title: Re: Mini-battery install Post by ohiomoto on 11/11/18 at 05:52:24 I'm using a AG-801 from Antigravity. It's smaller and more powerful than the one used here. Of course it's also more expensive and easier to ruin, but mine has been perfect for me after a couple of seasons of use. I don't do anything special with it either. It stays in the bike year round, no tenders or anything. Just turn the key and start it up even in the winter. Very happy with it. |
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Title: Re: Mini-battery install Post by playhard67 on 11/11/18 at 09:59:22 7770717775776C77180 wrote:
Thank you for your response. |
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Title: Re: Mini-battery install Post by Slowlane on 12/22/20 at 08:44:06 I am interested in the smaller size battery for easier removal. My battery eats up the entire box and is hard to remove/install. With the smaller battery one would be able to pull it out and get the screws off easily. It would take some creativity to make sure it was coushioned and secure in the box. Seems like you have to remove the battery four times a day. Joke |
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Title: Re: Mini-battery install Post by verslagen1 on 12/22/20 at 13:55:22 0C333028333E313A5F0 wrote:
Get a AGM battery and you won't have to remove the battery other than to winterize it. |
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Title: Re: Mini-battery install Post by Slowlane on 12/23/20 at 10:37:31 Recommend one to fit oem box....please |
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Title: Re: Mini-battery install Post by verslagen1 on 12/23/20 at 17:13:00 I used a big crank for a long time till it gave out. It fits tight, problem is the design of the battery box, the bottom is not square. but the right amount of pushing, shoving and cursing will get it in. https://www.batterymart.com/p-big-crank-etx14l-battery.html Now I just look for sales and whatever old feller recommends. |
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Title: Re: Mini-battery install Post by Slowlane on 12/26/20 at 05:57:01 After installing/reinstalling the OEM size battery AND the battery box to get access to the carburator I can tell you that I am sick of how tight everthing in that area is. With a smaller battery I could solder on longer neg/pos terminals and actually get to the battery easily. I have just purchased a brand new Yusua OEM size battery and the negative terminal wont slide out unless you remove the bolt completely. IF I ever get the bike running right I'm going to get one of those 801 smaller batteries and make my life easier. |
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Title: Re: Mini-battery install Post by Gary_in_NJ on 12/30/20 at 19:42:19 I have lightweight LiFePO4 batteries in all of my bikes. The one in my DRZ is the size of two packs of playing cards and it spins the bejebus out of that engine. The small size was required for that application because the battery is hidden under the seat with the rest of the electronics. My FZ also uses a small format battery. The size of these batteries has gotten ridiculous - they can be hidden anywhere on the bike. |
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Title: Re: Mini-battery install Post by Eegore on 01/07/21 at 05:43:18 I have lightweight LiFePO4 batteries in all of my bikes. Can you reference what brand or a location to get one? |
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Title: Re: Mini-battery install Post by splash07 on 11/10/21 at 12:49:40 Dead Thread Revival: I am also interested in going with a smaller battery maybe mounted on the exhaust muffler bracket so I can delete the stock battery box (its getting in the way of my big K&N cone filter). Is the YTZ7S still the recommended AGM battery. What LiFePO4 batteries are people running? |
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Title: Re: Mini-battery install Post by Madgrinders on 11/10/21 at 18:39:59 I installed an 8 cell antigravity on the exhaust bracket. Perfect fit. |
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Title: Re: Mini-battery install Post by TheSneeze on 02/16/22 at 15:16:31 I am interested in using a Lithium Ion battery like the Antigravity AG801, but every seller says pre '90's bikes need to update the voltage regulator or you will damage the battery. Since my bike is an '87, I was wondering if anyone with the first gen bikes like mine has used a later year regulator/rectifier unit from a '90's or '00's Savage? Would that be a plug and play, or are the later year parts a different connector or pin out? |
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Title: Re: Mini-battery install Post by TheSneeze on 02/16/22 at 16:32:36 '04 wiring diagram shows three wires to the white connector, same as my '87. But when you search for the part number on Partzilla, or other sites, they only have two wires to the white connector. Not consistent information at all... |
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Title: Re: Mini-battery install Post by verslagen1 on 02/16/22 at 19:55:01 5F40656268616D7E670C0 wrote:
most of the rectifiers you can get only have 2 wires now as 2 of the 3 both went to the same place so they eliminated 1. |
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