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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> What to expect in cold weather?
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Message started by SianLogic on 11/10/09 at 12:23:23

Title: What to expect in cold weather?
Post by SianLogic on 11/10/09 at 12:23:23

Hello All,

I went out for ice cream in 45-50F temps and the entire ride, both ways (about 15 mins each way with 20-30 mins break in between) I had to have the choke on.  a Five minute freeway jaunt was a part of this ride.  At idle if I cancelled the choke, the engine would die immediately.  I didn't try cancelling the choke while in motion.  Is this to be expected or is there something that needs to be addressed?

Stock 2009 Boulevard with 200mi.  No service done.  Using Chevron Supreme gas.

Thanks!

SianLogic

Title: Re: What to expect in cold weather?
Post by Routy on 11/10/09 at 12:52:02

I'm new to this bike as well, but if it was mine, and being under warranty, I would speed up the idle till it idled. If that wouldn't do it, then I think I would have to take it to the dealer shop to fix it. I know, thats scary,....but hopefully they wouldn't screw it up too bad. ::)

Title: Re: What to expect in cold weather?
Post by photojoe on 11/10/09 at 13:04:01

I don't know, it sounds like something is going on that shouldn't be at only 45F. As Routy said, bumping up the idle would be a good place to start and is simple enough.

I ride year round here in NJ as long as it's not snowing. My bike is an older '87, and my winter routine is to fire it up with full choke. Bring it to 1/2 in 10-15 seconds, then all the way in and start using the throttle for a few minutes. My bike love the cold weather.

Yeah, try the idle and see if that's the problem. If not, post back, and I'm sure that someone here can offer suggestions that will help get you stable.

Title: Re: What to expect in cold weather?
Post by mornhm on 11/10/09 at 13:41:03

If your idle is off when the engine is warmed up, it will cause you problems.

FWIW my Savage ran fine even below freezing. It took a couple of minutes to warm up, but then didn't need the choke. Bottom line, a stock Savage will run just great in cold or hot weather when properly adjusted.

200 miles is not even enough for the MC to be broke in. Barely enough to be warmed up.  ;) The ride you described is probably not enough for the engine to be completely warmed up, but it shouldn't die if the choke is pushed in. Won't start, but it shouldn't die immediately. If it won't run once warmed up without the choke there is definitely a problem, and probably a problem based on the ride you described even though it might not have been warmed up.

If adjusting it won't fix it, I'd look at how long the gas has sat in it -  gas goes stale pretty quick, summer gas is differently formulated than winter gas. If it's had gas in it for more than a month at any time and been ridden only 200 miles you might be looking at varnish in the carb.

Does supreme mean high octane? If so, why? I'm pretty sure the Savage is set up stock to run 87 octane.

Title: Re: What to expect in cold weather?
Post by Gort on 11/10/09 at 13:45:18

If its still under warranty, I suggest taking it back to the dealer.  You paid a lot for a new bike to be correct, and it isn't.  Why experiment with adjustments to try and solve a condition which may really be a malfunction that will may get worse?  Suzuki didn't design the bike to run like that.  Something is wrong.

Title: Re: What to expect in cold weather?
Post by Gort on 11/10/09 at 13:50:44


5E5C415D5B5E330 wrote:
If your idle is off when the engine is warmed up, it will cause you problems.

FWIW my Savage ran fine even below freezing. It took a couple of minutes to warm up, but then didn't need the choke. Bottom line, a stock Savage will run just great in cold or hot weather when properly adjusted.

200 miles is not even enough for the MC to be broke in. Barely enough to be warmed up.  ;) The ride you described is probably not enough for the engine to be completely warmed up, but it shouldn't die if the choke is pushed in. Won't start, but it shouldn't die immediately. If it won't run once warmed up without the choke there is definitely a problem, and probably a problem based on the ride you described even though it might not have been warmed up.

If adjusting it won't fix it, I'd look at how long the gas has sat in it -  gas goes stale pretty quick, summer gas is differently formulated than winter gas. If it's had gas in it for more than a month at any time and been ridden only 200 miles you might be looking at varnish in the carb.

Does supreme mean high octane? If so, why? I'm pretty sure the Savage is set up stock to run 87 octane.



Members have reported pre-ignition when running regular grade gas during hot summers and extended idling. These conditions raise internal cylinder temps which can cause hot spots on the piston or valve surfaces, which can cause pre-ignition, especially in lean burning engines like the stock Savage. The higher octane gas solves that problem, and it can't hurt to use it even if the engine doesn't need the higher octane, because it is harmless.

Title: Re: What to expect in cold weather?
Post by mornhm on 11/10/09 at 14:06:04


1F2C2A362B2C5E0 wrote:
Members have reported pre-ignition when running regular grade gas during hot summers and extended idling. These conditions raise internal cylinder temps which can cause hot spots on the piston or valve surfaces, which can cause pre-ignition. The higher octane gas solves that problem, and it can't hurt to use it even if the engine doesn't need the higher octane, because it is harmless.

OK, makes perfect sense, in fact if I know that I'm making a long ride in hot weather on my Concours I put hi-octane gas in, but in cooler weather, especially when commuting I run 87 octane.

Why, because in my experience, ymmv, the problem with using higher octane in other than hot conditions is that because by definition, high octane gas is harder to detonate which can make low performance engines (such as the Savage's) difficult to start and rough running.

Title: Re: What to expect in cold weather?
Post by Gort on 11/10/09 at 14:48:42

I can't agree with you about the Savage.  I always use high octane in my bike and never had starting or idling problems.  I have also used it in low compression carbureted car engines with no distributor vacuum advances, and lawnmower engines, with no problems.

Title: Re: What to expect in cold weather?
Post by bill67 on 11/10/09 at 15:18:07

 High octane should run slightly cooler,Being it burns slower its like retarding the spark.High octane also has more cleaners in it or a bigger percent of cleaner.

Title: Re: What to expect in cold weather?
Post by Skid Mark on 11/10/09 at 15:21:33

Take it back to the shop. I have an 08 and it runs just fine in cooler weather.  Not being broken in may be a issue here but I doubt it. Let the shop have a look at it. At 200 miles, its their problem, not yours.
600 mile is when its due for its 1st adjustments but it should idle once warm, w/o the choke.

Title: Re: What to expect in cold weather?
Post by Oldfeller on 11/10/09 at 15:36:28

If your idle speed is less than 1,000 rpm (and with all this talk of dying it may well be) you are in danger of oil starving the head's cam bearing journals in your brand new engine due to reduced oil pressure at a reduced idle.   You are killing your engine slowly by lack of oil pressure.

(some young person at your dealership who set the bike up out of the crate set your idle too low because "it sounded cool to me" -- ignorance of the Savage is commonplace at dealerships as they only get the bikes in once a year in the spring and do not get any for the rest of the year -- the young guy who set this crop up was not the guy from last year who knew something, he went back to school or went on to college)

This is a MAJOR issue that could seriously damage your engine permanently.  Immediately take it back to your dealer to have it fixed ASAP under warranty[/u].  Document the idle speed if you can -- have them test the idle speed when you take it in and get the number written down -- if it is less than 1,000 you have proof of warranty on your cam bearing claim for later on when it shows itself.

Title: Re: What to expect in cold weather?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/10/09 at 15:57:15


5E7D7577747D7D7463110 wrote:
If your idle speed is less than 1,000 rpm (and with all this talk of dying it may well be) you are in danger of oil starving the head's cam bearing journals in your brand new engine due to reduced oil pressure at a reduced idle.   You are killing your engine slowly by lack of oil pressure.

(some young person at your dealership who set the bike up out of the crate set your idle too low because "it sounded cool to me" -- ignorance of the Savage is commonplace at dealerships as they only get the bikes in once a year in the spring and do not get any for the rest of the year -- the young guy who set this crop up was not the guy from last year who knew something, he went back to school or went on to college)

This is a MAJOR issue that could seriously damage your engine permanently.  Immediately take it back to your dealer to have it fixed ASAP under warranty[/u].  Document the idle speed if you can -- have them test the idle speed when you take it in and get the number written down -- if it is less than 1,000 you have proof of warranty on your cam bearing claim for later on when it shows itself.




Make them check the idle speed, definitely. If its less than 1,000 RPM, then you must make them note it in the maintenance records. They have low oil pressure to begin with. Couple that with low RPM & the head starves for  oil. Damage to the cam journals is not possible, its a given. O.F. is on target here..as usual.

Title: Re: What to expect in cold weather?
Post by DrunkenDwarf on 11/10/09 at 18:29:48

Mine dies if I close the choke without giving it a little gas. Idles fine once it makes the transition. Warmed up idle speed is about 1100.

-D. Dwarf

Title: Re: What to expect in cold weather?
Post by Dj12midnit on 11/10/09 at 21:39:53

I run year around in the upper north west. I run 87 weather its 80 or 20 out. In the winter I go full choke to start then go right to half till I get my helmet and gloves on, then I kick it into gear and slide the choke in the rest of the way. I do wear two different gloves in the winter though.

Title: Re: What to expect in cold weather?
Post by tcreeley on 11/11/09 at 17:00:29

I've headed to work when it is 32 out. It takes my 87 LS650 a little bit more cranking to start and I have to leave the choke out longer until it is warmed up. I use  91 octane gas. For 6 dollars to fill the tank- no big deal. The truck takes 60-70 bucks- it gets the cheap stuff.
I worry about the road surface being damp and iced over. That's what I check before I head out. Putting it away for the winter this weekend here in central Maine. Been in the 20's almost every night.
Take it to your dealer, don't adjust it.

Title: Re: What to expect in cold weather?
Post by Routy on 11/11/09 at 21:13:08

There would be no reason to not try adjusting the idle speed. That is an owner operator service, that in no way would affect the warranty, and hopefully would save a trip to the dealer.

Title: Re: What to expect in cold weather?
Post by SianLogic on 11/11/09 at 23:31:08

Thanks for all the advice guys.  I am going to take it back to the dealer and let them resolve the issue.  Since it's still under warranty, this will be easier for me than messing with adjustments myself.  I'm better with computers than I am with engines.  

Thanks!

SianLogic

Title: Re: What to expect in cold weather?
Post by Trippah on 11/12/09 at 14:36:05

Change, this will..may the force be with you. ;)

Title: Re: What to expect in cold weather?
Post by babyhog on 11/13/09 at 12:55:57

I'd just like to add one comment about higher octane gas or not.  IF you decide to use higher octane, make sure that the station where you buy it sells enough of it that what you are buying is not stale.  I used to use the supreme stuff until I asked the station attendant if they sell alot of supreme and he said no, hardly ever!  So if no one buys it, do they replace it when they come to fill up the "regular" gas?  I have no clue.  I started using Regular and have had no ill effects.

Title: Re: What to expect in cold weather?
Post by Gort on 11/13/09 at 14:36:31

Excellent point.  I've read various estimates, but most of what Ive read says gas starts to lose its octane rating after sitting 60 days.  I'll bet  premium sits longer than that in the underground gas station tanks.

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