SuzukiSavage.com - Print Page

SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl
General Category >> Technical Documents/Reference >> carb jetting- a progressive guide
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1244217127

Message started by diamond jim on 06/05/09 at 08:52:07

Title: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by diamond jim on 06/05/09 at 08:52:07

(I'll make this an evolving chart based on everyone's feedback. Let me know how close or how far off you think this chart is and I'll edit. Maybe this will help save some time and frustration for members.)

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/carbguide-1.jpg

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/jettingguide2.jpg

I discovered that my overly rich pilot and main, which I thought were spot on, were actually very rich and concealed a lean midrange. So I've been and will continue to experiment with various setups. I used what I've read from other members and learned from my own experience so far to put this chart together. There will always be exceptions but I believe when addressing one circuit, setting the other circuits to corresponding values will help maintain jetting balance, make fine tuning less of a mystery and avoid overcompensating for a lean area.

I will continue to experiment with these:

Pilot:
50 w/ bleed holes
Stock 52.5
52.5 w/ bleed holes
55 with no bleed holes
55 w/ bleed holes

Spacers:
1/2
1/4
none

Main:
145
147.5
150
152.5
155

Let me include here Lancer's straight and simple carb tuning post:
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1157720585

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by BouleTard on 06/05/09 at 11:09:55

Awesome. As soon as I get off work I'll finish installing my dyna muffler and post results:

stock airbox and filter
Dyna muffler w/stock header
stock jets for 2005 model 52.5/145, freshly cleaned
pilot screw setting at 1.5, but will be tuned.

Idles and sounds fantastic so far. The 52.5 pilot jet (not perforated) seems fine, since I can make the engine stumble before the pilot screw seats, and plenty rich and smelling like a refinery well before 3 turns out.

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by diamond jim on 06/05/09 at 12:47:20

Here's some of BurnPgh's detailed experiences and observation that he posted in the RSD "jetting help" thread. I wanted to post it here cause it's got tons of great info.

083F38241A2D224A0 wrote:

.. In my experience, as far as the spacer goes, it really depends. Some people have removed their spacer altogether to have their bikes bleed gas out of the airbox at idle without touching the pilot jet(i think the airbox. I know people have reported gas bleeding out of somewhere due to this. No spacer works for my bike but it does better with 1 washer (and i suspect it will do better with 2 washers ie half spacer ) owing to the fact that Im too rich with a 55 bh pilot no matter what else is going on - back to 52.5 w/bh - with that im far out on the adjust screw but i have managed to eliminate the shutoff backfire. 52.5bh and no spacer creates sluggish acceleration. Add to this a 155 main and it makes for an all around crappy ride. So I added a washer ( 52.5bh, 1 washer, 155 main) Mid range was much better but it was very apparent when the main circuit kicked in. Still no shutdown backfire. Changed the 155 to 152.5. Idle good, midrange good, main circuit kick in less evident but still noticeable. Switched the main to 150. This is where I stand now - 52.5bh,1 washer,150 main. I still have just the slightest hesitation on the main circuit. I did 4 plug reads between all this. Once for each circuit and the one im running now which still shows a bit rich. I ride mostly mid range so that tells me one more washer may do me good. I could go to a 147.5 main probably instead but while that may eliminate the rich midrange im pretty sure it would make the main circuit too lean. Only by a bit but Im in no hurry to burn up a valve like some have done. I feel another washer would lean the midrange to where it should be and lean the main circuit just enough. ... it's best still to pay attention to the bikes feel as well as do a plug read for each circuit starting with the pilot and working up. Still going to have to open the carb up a bunch of times and take the tank off a bunch of times. It all comes down to trial and error within a certain range of possbilities and Im not the only one thats remarked that this carb never seems to be JUST right. I believe someone here wished they made a 53.5 pilot and I would agree. Or a 148.75 main. If you're rejetting you're rejetting for economy or power. Suzuki's pretty much played out the economy side so...if your doing it for power you might aswell do it right and get the most seamless transition between circuits as possible, and thats no fun...although for me it became fun. With my raptor petcock i can go from seat on to rejetted and seat BACK on in about an hour with all circuits changed. I switched from no spacer to 1 washer in a friends driveway at a party in the dark in 45 minutes (I lost the remaining bits of lancers jet set. Too much wine). Im pretty proud of myself though.

Dwarf - I'm guessing you'll want to drop to a 52.5 with bleed holes and adjust the mix screw, a 152.5 main, and 1-2 washers. No telling really without doing it step by step. 55, no spacer, 155 is pretty rich all around. I don't think you'll like it but it will probably run. 52.5 ad adjust will probably be good, with no spacer will probably be okay, with 155 main will probably be rich. Add 1 washer and you're pilot will probably still be okay with a mix screw adjust. You're midrange will probably be better. Your main circuit will probably still be rich. Add 1 more washer your pilot may still be good with mix adjust.
If so your midrange will be even better. Your main circuit will be way to rich. You'll feel it bog down at high revs. Switch to 152.5 main. Hows that suit you? Do a plug chop on the main circuit. Still rich? Go to 150 main. Check the plug again on the midrange. If it's lean remove one spacer.

I've been typing and aditing for two hours to try and get this across simply and to be honest its just trial and error...

I haven't done the plug chops yet but will do. A moderately lean midrange or main and a moderately lean or rich main can feel similar to those with not enough experience. Excessively lean or rich was obvious to me. For me to be sure about the moderately lean/rich conditions I had to make one much leaner and the other much richer and go for a ride. Then vice versa. Then slowly bring them back to center. I'm sure there are better methods but I guess I'm old school when it comes to that. The experience of test runs with the jets 180 out of whack clearly showed me the effect on this carb and bike. I was then able to better feel the smaller differences as I slowly began to dial it in. With no battery behind my carb I can make changes like a nascar pit crew! I'd love to know that I can judge and get it dialed in and then go back to the dyno next week and see that I was right on the money. Or how far off!

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by BouleTard on 06/05/09 at 16:41:50

OK, ride report! The carb confused me a little, because when I ran it briefly last night it seemed rich at idle, but today once I took it for a ride it would pop or bang at each shift (with the screw at 1.5 turns). I kept riding and adjusting the screw out until the afterfires stopped at 3.5 turns. So I guess I do need a richer pilot jet, or one with bleed holes (?) In hindsight, I'm glad I took the whole white spacer out and didn't add washers.

The midrange flat spot (flat spot? engine used to sputter and surge like crazy till you got past it) is GONE. The low and midrange is good and juicy now. :D Wide open throttle, by my standards is downright scary.

The engine runs MUCH cooler now that the white spacer is out, and the pilot jet is clean and somewhat dialed-in. I'm gonna keep it like this until I get the K&N filter and Lancer carb.

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by diamond jim on 06/05/09 at 20:10:48

Midrange flat spot gone...low and midrange good and juicy... pop or bang between shifts... 3.5 turns out and after fires (backfire on shutdown?) stopped...

Maybe just a tad richer on your pilot, possibly a 52.5 w/bleed holes 55 without and mixture screw only 1 turn out, but it sounds like you've got it pretty close. Between shift pops are normal. Between shift loud bangs are more likely exhaust related.

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by BouleTard on 06/05/09 at 20:55:12

Whatever the cause, all banging (or just embarrassing loud pops) are gone now. The dyna pipe is a lot less restrictive (and louder) than I expected, but there was still the occasional bang with the suzuki muffler. I will stop messing with it for now because there's nothing else I can do with the stock carb and jets.. already at 3.5 turns and no spacer. I didn't expect further richening beyond 3 turns. Luckily there was a small effect going from 3 to 3.5 turns, a bonus my neighbors will appriciate. :)

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by diamond jim on 06/06/09 at 10:20:03

You running stock airbox and filter? Does your dyna still have the plate inside in the middle of the baffle or can you see straight thru it?

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by BouleTard on 06/06/09 at 10:43:35

The dyna muffler is still in stock condition, full plate in the middle. I was considering a 1/4" or so hole in the plate.. not necessary per Lancer's advice and confirmed by my ears.

The airbox and filter are stock for now. I have a K&N panel filter ordered, and may cut or drill the airbox. But not so much as to ruin any dust settling/prefiltering it may do.

Once I have the K&N added I will have some good feedback for the stage 4 section of your chart. I can almost guarantee that the pilot jet won't handle it and will need bleed holes or increase to #55 or 57.5. I'd much rather have a richer pilot jet and the fuel screw at 1.5 turns, so I have a good range for fine tuning. If anyone has spare pilot jets to sell or donate in the interest of science :D please let me know.

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by diamond jim on 06/06/09 at 18:00:02

I might need to move the entire pilot column up a stage meaning making 2 or 2.5 turns the start and changing to a 55 earlier.

BouleTard, thanks for all of your detailed feedback.

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by LANCER on 06/07/09 at 05:53:39

2D203A232A3B2E3D2B4F0 wrote:

There are small round or square supplementary foam filters that are designed to insert into holes drilled into the air box like you want to do.
You can get them very cheaply at Thunder Products or from Sudco. If you need part numbers I can add that later.

Filtered Air Vents

Uni's foam filtered air vents increase the pre-filtered air supply to
the air box. The foam filter air element may be cleaned and re-oiled.
For Street, Dirt, ATV's, etc.

Recommended Retail: $9.95

Our closeout price: $6.95

http://www.thunderproducts.com/UFV6.jpg
_______________________________________________________________________________

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by BouleTard on 06/07/09 at 20:13:30

Yeah I've thought about those things, as well as other options like sawing out a piece of airbox and replacing the hole with foam backed up with hardware cloth. But then I think nah, I don't need to be pulling and cleaning a bunch of pre-filters along with the filter.

Hopefully the stock paper element is the bottleneck, and replacing it with the K&N will be enough. Since K&Ns load up and lose their effectiveness quickly, I'll just clean it when I change the oil.

Say Lancer, when you convert from a CV carb to one of your roundslides, does the jetting change much?

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by LANCER on 06/08/09 at 08:00:17

636E746D6475607365010 wrote:

Completely different. Carbs are different in several ways and so jetting is as well. I send out most carbs that will be going on a stock engine with a #185 main jet and #20 pilot jet. The jets are a completely different series than those in a stock carb.

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by PTRider on 06/08/09 at 13:22:23

My experience with my 2001 is somewhat different from Jim's. With stock intake and exhaust, I like the idle screw about 1-3/4 to 2 turns out, a spacer about 2mm high (vs. the white spacer about 2.7mm), and a 150 main jet. I tried spacer about 1.5mm and found no difference. I tried a 147.5 main jet and prefer the 150. When no difference is felt, I run leaner to see if there's any increase in fuel range.

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by BouleTard on 06/09/09 at 18:35:38

Update! My K&N filter came in the mail today and I just had to try it. While I was checking over the airbox, header joints, etc. I found a tiny leak between the header and muffler. So I fixed the leak, installed the K&N, and took it for a spin. This time there was no after-firing at all, and the lean-pops pretty much went away with the pilot screw 2.5 turns out. Go figure.. I uncork the airbox somewhat, went full turn leaner on the screw, no loud pops, it still runs cooler than stock. So this setup works with the stock carb:

dyna muffler
K&N panel filter
no spacer
screw 2.5 turns out

From this I learned that either the dyna muffler likes to be paired with less drag on the intake (you gotta uncork both ends anyway) and the smallest little exhaust leak will cause after-firing unless you crank the pilot as rich as it will go.

This setup will be more than fine for now.. until I get my hands on one of those Lancer super-carb kits. :D

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by John_D on 06/11/09 at 04:55:24

333E243D3425302335510 wrote:

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by BouleTard on 06/11/09 at 11:53:35

6572737972747C2025262725170 wrote:

Good info. I'm running the Dyna muffler, with the stock filter, and 2 washers on the needle. May have to look at removing them and see how it runs.

Sounds good. I should clarify though, that my carb is a stock '05, so the main jet is a 145. If your main is bigger than that, you might leave one of your washers in, and start with the pilot screw at 2.25 turns, since diamond jim has shown that the larger mains affect the mid and low range too.

6572737972747C2025262725170 wrote:

I hate to go to a K&N, just because I've heard horror stories of people getting things gummed up (overoiling maybe). Is there a dry filter that flows better, besides cutting down an automotive filter?

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by John_D on 06/11/09 at 13:51:21

5F52485158495C4F593D0 wrote:

[quote author=6572737972747C2025262725170 link=1244217127/0#14 date=1244721324]
Good info. I'm running the Dyna muffler, with the stock filter, and 2 washers on the needle. May have to look at removing them and see how it runs.

I've not heard of a dry paper filter less restrictive than a K&N, automotive or not. For what it's worth, I have not had any gumming so far with the filter oiled as it came from the factory, plus some extra around the seal. [/quote]
Cool, as far as I know my main is a 145, as long as that's what came stock in '08.
My only concern with the K&N was the gumming, as it seems the slide would be particularly succeptable to that. As long as a guy doesn't hose it down though, that's probably avoidable. Have to start shopping around for a filter maybe. :D

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by LANCER on 06/16/09 at 21:33:37

7562636962646C3035363735070 wrote:

[quote author=333E243D3425302335510 link=1244217127/0#13 date=1244597738]Update! My K&N filter came in the mail today and I just had to try it. While I was checking over the airbox, header joints, etc. I found a tiny leak between the header and muffler. So I fixed the leak, installed the K&N, and took it for a spin. This time there was no after-firing at all, and the lean-pops pretty much went away with the pilot screw 2.5 turns out. Go figure.. I uncork the airbox somewhat, went full turn leaner on the screw, no loud pops, it still runs cooler than stock. So this setup works with the stock carb:

dyna muffler
K&N panel filter
no spacer
screw 2.5 turns out

From this I learned that either the dyna muffler likes to be paired with less drag on the intake (you gotta uncork both ends anyway) and the smallest little exhaust leak will cause after-firing unless you crank the pilot as rich as it will go.

This setup will be more than fine for now.. until I get my hands on one of those Lancer super-carb kits. :D

Good info. I'm running the Dyna muffler, with the stock filter, and 2 washers on the needle. May have to look at removing them and see how it runs. I hate to go to a K&N, just because I've heard horror stories of people getting things gummed up (overoiling maybe). Is there a dry filter that flows better, besides cutting down an automotive filter?[/quote]

Yes there is. I had a number of them made last year, and I liked them. I had one returned due to cracking aroung the flange end, but had sold about 50-60 of them so figured it was a one off situation. If I can find the info on them I will post it.

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by Oldfeller on 06/17/09 at 05:44:33

Problem with any very high flowing dry air filter is that it lets all the little airborn dust crap go right on through and into your engine, where it winds up in your oil as "recirculating fine lapping compound".

You don't need to go there -- trust me. Our bikes don't "gunk up" from filter oil -- I am the world's Savage expert on the over oiling of air filters and what it does (or does not do) to your carb or your engine.

Max affect of VERY gross over oiling on the Savage is a very temporary throttle lag condition (hesitation or "wonkiness") caused by the heavy oil impeding the vacuum actuated slide temporarily. This effect only lasts a few days before the gas flow thins out the oil and effectively washes the slide clean again.

Wonkiness is a TEMPORARY mild perceived performance effect, you can simply wait it out or give the carb a shot of carb cleaner and fix it instantly. Up to you of course.

All the bad stuff you are reading about on the web about oil and K&N filters is all about emission control systems and sensors. Over oiling a K&N will kill hundreds of dollars worth of modern emissions control sensors on a modern sports bike -- VERY bad news when it happens and it gets lots & lots of chatter accordingly.

But we ain't got any sensors to kill -- so don't sweat it.

Actually, any residual (thinned out) air filter oil on our CV slides helps it to move better and helps prevent the long term wearing off the black teflon coating, which is actually a good thing for your carb in the long run.

Go worry about something else -- this one isn't going to hurt you.

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by KNOCKDOLIAN on 01/26/10 at 11:18:55

Hi all, I've been looking at the stage 1 kit on ebay (150403664466) Has anyone seen or even used this kit. Its supposed to be all you need to fit a harley exhaust and stop the header glowing. We have had quite a hard winter hear in the UK so I would leave the bike ticking over while I put my gloves etc on. that was The first time I saw my header glowing red :oI nearly ha

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by LANCER on 01/27/10 at 07:53:09

6372667F79330 wrote:

whoa dude; we don't want a red header. Man, that is freaking hot.
You really need to get that rejetted.
The stage one kit you saw may be what you need but he does not tell you what size jets you will receive so you don't know if they are the size you will need for your specific setup on your bike.
He does include some kind of instruction sheet, though past experience has been that his info is not always accurate.
His kit has 1 pilot jet and 1 main jet + 2 washers for almost $27.

If you wish to consider an alternative, I sell JETSETS for $21.95, shipping included...even to England.

Contents

2 pilot jets: #52.5 & #55
3 main jets: #150, #152.5 & #155
3 washers to replace white needle spacer
float bowl gasket

I do not include any instructions. If needed, there are a lot of helpful instructions in the tech section on this website covering all kinds of variations of mod's on the LS650.
The selection of jets I include will provide all the jets you may need for any stock LS650 setup, muffler replacement of any type, or even a slightly modified engine when still using the stock carb.

If you choose to do so, you can order via Paypal, making payment to "savage.s40@gmail.com"
If necessary, I can send you an invoice with which payment can be made using a credit card.

*********

yea, ok guys, I know, I am shamelessly promoting my JETSET .... guilty ::)

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by mumbles on 01/28/10 at 07:54:28

6D7C6871773D0 wrote:

Go with Lancer he'll hook you up with the right jets.

(OK promo's over) ;)

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by KNOCKDOLIAN on 01/28/10 at 11:34:12

Already ordered them, hope their on the their way. Quick question. Why is the dyner exhaust so popular. Will a sportster one do

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by jabman on 01/28/10 at 13:17:27

the dyna exhaust ROCKS!! it fits perfect if you get the right one loud but not too loud i can give the part number if needed, for mine its a straight fit

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by KNOCKDOLIAN on 02/10/10 at 10:51:00

Hi all, Well read all the info on carb jetting. Bought myself an after market can not Dyna but a nice slash cut with very little restriction.
K&N filter (open air box for the moment)
I have gone with diamond jim's graph. Stage 5 step13.
The bike started and revved ok but, adjusting the mixture screw has NO effect on on tick over from all the way in to all out. Having removed the screw there seems to be bits missing. Is there always a spring. washer and seal as all these bits are missing. I believe the lack of seal and spring is allowing air past the needle. Is this a fair assumption and what next?
Thanks

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by LANCER on 02/28/10 at 11:18:06

0312061F19530 wrote:

Yes, the pilot air adjusting screw should have a spring, tiny washer and tiny rubber o-ring, with the o-ring on the pointed end that goes in first.
It is necessary to make a good seal inside in order for the screw adjustments to work for you.

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by KNOCKDOLIAN on 03/07/10 at 12:38:42

Well after spending all weekend taking carb off, putting carb on I think im making progress. Thanks mainly to lancer who is a very knowledge and very fine chap. Now then I just want to clarify a couple of things. As far as I know, my wife's bike was stock. Having put a big open exhaust on it, it needed jetting. The original jets were 130 main and 47.5 idle without bleed holes . A 2mm spacer. The needle has three notches with the clip on the middle one. To cut a long story short I now Have 150 main, 2 washers. The only way I can get a good tick over is to use the 47.5 with bleed holes. 2.5 turns out. If I put the 52.5 in it will tick over but after a rev, it will stall. The 47.5 works except for a loud bang, not pop when you shut off. The header still goes red when on tick over but I now know that it isn't a stock pipe. Its a single skin stainless pipe so not too worried about that.

So to summarise
150 main
2 washers
47.5 with bleed holes
2.5 turns out
Testing with no filter as I got fed up taking the hose on and off.
All is well except the bang on shut off. So what do I do next. Its close. Please help.

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by LANCER on 03/07/10 at 17:57:44

6D7C6871773D0 wrote:

Did you try the #50 pilot jet or were you short the #50 when I sent them ? IF so, I just got my resupply so can send one...let me know

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by KNOCKDOLIAN on 03/08/10 at 09:17:15

Hi lancer. Do you know I was thinking I need a 50 poilet and have been looking. There wasnt one in the kit. If you could send one that would be greate. I can put up with the bang for a while. If you put it in the post and PM me with the price Ill get it off to you soonest.
Thanks againe for all your help. your going on my christmas card list ;)

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by Savage_Amusement on 03/09/10 at 09:49:28

Which jet or whatever is used when you turn the throttle just a little bit? Mine bogs down real hard in that first little bit of a twist then seems to even out further after that. It is making me crazy lol.

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by verslagen1 on 03/09/10 at 09:56:39

082439252E39383F24392E787B7B7B4B0 wrote:

OK, fess up, what did you do?
pilot jet size, main jet size, needle spacer?
Check that your main jet is tight and there's a washer under it.

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by Savage_Amusement on 03/09/10 at 10:04:25

It has been so long that I can't remember what is in there. I have a cone filter, and dyna muffler with a hole drilled in the middle of it. I have taken a little bit off the spacer but not a lot. I can tell it is to rich in that first 1/4 of a twist though, it smokes and has turned my brake lever on the rear black.

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by verslagen1 on 03/09/10 at 11:19:27

"I have taken a little bit off the spacer but not a lot. I can tell it is to rich in that first 1/4 of a twist though, it smokes and has turned my brake lever on the rear black. "

A bit rich eh? 1st guess would be to take the spacer back to stock thickness and probably go back 1 increment on the main jet.
The spacer should make it consistent throughout the throttle range.

While you're in there, check to see if you got a washer under the jet.

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by Savage_Amusement on 03/10/10 at 11:47:57

I know there is a washer under it, but it might have holes in it, the jet not the washer lol.

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by Savage_Amusement on 03/17/10 at 21:40:37

Alright today I broke it open.

Pilot: 55
Main: 150
Spacer:3/4

I turned in the mix screw a little and it helped some. After reading more about the start of this thread I'm going to drop back down to a 52.5 pilot, I think that is where I was to rich.

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by coldair on 06/02/10 at 13:50:05

im around 7000 feet and higher. I had to go down a jet size form stock. I couldnt even get 70 mph tops was 65mph after i did that i can now hit 80 to 85 mph.

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by BC-Savage on 04/28/11 at 09:40:25

Hi Guys;
Love this forum. You're going to make a Suzuki lover out of me yet. I say that because my first Susuki was a 94 RM250 which broke down on me every ride.
Anyway, I picked up a cheap 86 Savage in most part because of the Positive review and tech tips available on this sight.
So thanks to all the Savage enthusiasts here!
That being said, my Little custom savage is nearing the limit I will take it and....I love it. I am so happy with it, my friends are predicting I won’t sell it as originally planned. They might be right, as long as I can come up with a convincing story for the wife...
So to my point...I do read alot about the Backfire, and oh boy does my Savage comply. So loud and sharp I not only scare the riders behind me, but myself too at times.
So the fix seems easy, Adjust the air Mixture screw, and then look to remove the white spacer and possibly re-jet.
My question: Before I dig into this carb, was the white spacer part of every year’s carb? I read in these blogs that it was emission control which might have been some time after 86. I also question that because I am certain the Air Mixture screw was not factory capped either.

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by weracerc on 05/14/11 at 17:41:15

ok i screwwed up and deleted a PM from Lancer regarding tuning ym carb with the JETSET...the bike is 1996, 9700 miles - stock carb, airbox and filter - stock header (wrapped), Jardine slash cut muffler - some snap crackle pop on decel and gear changes, LOUD bang at shut down - i drilled out the brash plug and removed - turned the air/fuel screw 1/2 turn CCW....now which jets do i start with? I think he said 52 & 152.5 anyone want to confiurm that or correct me. I want to do the jet changes tomorrow if possible.

thanks for your help

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by verslagen1 on 05/14/11 at 18:06:46

Those don't sound wrong.
But simple testing will confirm.
On the idle jet, if the screw is out 3 turns or more, go up in size.
On the main jet, at full throttle accel, if you can back off an 1/8 turn and it seems to pick up, go 1 size up.

you'll never get rid of the snap crackle pop on decel (you lucky sob)
but shutdown pop and shift pop it can be done.

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by OE on 05/14/11 at 19:40:10

4F4E205E6C7B6C6A680D0 wrote:

My question: Before I dig into this carb, was the white spacer part of every year’s carb? I read in these blogs that it was emission control which might have been some time after 86. I also question that because I am certain the Air Mixture screw was not factory capped either.

I can confirm that on my 86 the white spacer is present. I don't think anyone would have added the spacer after the fact. The mixture screw wasn't capped but it was obvious someone had been messing with it because the slot was screwed up.

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by weracerc on 05/15/11 at 09:50:03

ok i did it - most of it - 52 & 152.5 - 1/2 turn CCW on the air fuel screw after removing the brass plug - idle screw remained in the same position - could not do the white spacer/washer mod - not comfortable digging that far in to the carb - has better more smooth acceleration - still crackles on decel - no shift pops - good mid range power - good 3 thru 5th gear accel - no bogging or hesitations in any gear but still BANGS on shut down ( is that the result of not doing the white spacer mod?)

more to it than i t6hought - had to take out the battery and remove the air box hose to get the carb out - could not see the slot on the 147 jet with the carb in the bike - did not want to booger it up so took the carb out to work on it.

there was a spacer on the 50 jet and i put it back on the 52 jet when i installed it.

glad i did it from a performance standpoint - would like the shut down BANG to go a way though.

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by verslagen1 on 05/15/11 at 10:04:07

give the idle mixture another 1/8 turn or more till just poofs.

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by splitting_lanes on 06/27/11 at 17:13:15

does anyone have a picture of the spacer that is referred too?

how does one get a 1/2 spacer?

is the spacer located under the main jet?

my GF's savage has a bog just off the line in first gear, then it picks up. I think it's a midrange circuit..... seems to be rich enough on the bottom after adjusting the screw out to 3 turns. suggestions?

thanks in advance!

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by sbaugz on 06/28/11 at 07:20:07

5F404D42495F2C0 wrote:

I have even better than a picture. Check out this you tube video from RYCA motors. The video walks you through the white spacer mod and also how to change jets. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFFuF9QZ4IM

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by Halvor on 05/23/12 at 13:59:55

Thanks a lot!!! This really helped me. THis have avaken the beast and doubled the force when over half throttle. I took out the carb today and expected a 145 main and a 52,5 pilot, but guess what!!! It had at 125 main and a 47,5 pilot!!!!!! Crazy. I guess it have been power restricted for a middle heavy class type motorsycle. A special system in norway where new and young drivers have only 30HP. This is the explanation for not responding at all before over half throttle. I made a speed record on the first small straight section I tested it.

I have a quite open mufflle (viper fish tail 22) and have installed a 44mm baffle to silence it a bit. I have stock air filter, but have removed the rubber intake wich I belive restrict the flow alot. I started out in the table in the first post with a 150-55-and 3whashers=1/2 spacer + 1/2 mixture. It worked excellent, but I had some shift pops and some pops on sudden shut down. Allso engine turn off poof. I looked in the table again and adjusted mix to 3/4. All pops anp poofs where gone. Even if I did my best to make them, there were no poofs.

This carb mod have really made the bike new. It runns so good that it is no need for moore power with such a frame ,sitting position dampers etc.

Thanks a lot for the help!!!!

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by Halvor on 06/03/12 at 13:36:22

I went back to 1/2 mixture. I was lost before becauce of a stuck carb piston. Now it moves again and I notised some smoke on idle and black deposits inside exhaust. Now, with 1/2 mix it runs better and do not smoke. After s bit of "racing" the black inside my baffle looks like it has burnt away. I had to adjust the idle speed down after the adjustment.

It is just like the first post, first line with 55 pilot.

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by mnefred on 06/24/12 at 04:06:26

I have a situation I haven't yet found a reference for. My ride to work is about 15 miles on 40 to 50 MPH county roads at sea level. Our lows are still dipping below 50 in the mornings. {There's something seriously wrong with wearing my winter gear in mid-June!! :-X} The bike is an '11 with about 2500 miles on it so far. She runs great, with only a little after-fire on decel and just a light pop on shutdown. The problem is what I think of as a "lean surge" when at a constant speed below about 50 mph, and below about 55 degrees. It almost feels like a miss, but not as dramatic as a true misfire. If I keep the choke out to the first notch {NOT full choke, what the shop manual calls the "enricher" position}, for the first third or so of the commute {when I hit the 50mph+ part of the drive} the problem stays away. If the temps are a little above 50 then I can usually leave the enricher off for the last third of the drive which is back down to 40 mph. However if the temps are below 50, especially down into the mid to low 40's, the enricher has to come back out after a mile or so at the lower speed.

So, the questions. What stage should I be looking at? Maybe just the spacer and mixture screw? Or is it normal for this engine to be so cold-blooded? Will running with the enricher out foul the plug, so long as the engine feels normal? IE: not lugging. Given the stated temps, how long would everybody expect to have run with the enricher on?

On particularly cold days I can run with the enricher out one notch even at 50+ mph for a couple of miles before she starts loading up. More normally I have to get it off as soon as I hit 50 which I'm guessing is when I'm getting into the main jet. On warmer days, 60 degrees and up, she runs perfectly with the enricher coming all the way off after only a mile or two. We've only hit 70 degrees a couple of times so far this year, and never during my commute window, so I'm not sure how fast she might warm up then. :'(

Sorry for the long winded post, and thanks for any advice!! Mark

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by newbs88 on 06/05/15 at 16:16:24

I need a little help. I have a 95 Savage and im trying my hardest to get the air fuel mixture happy. I have stock air box and Jardine Slip Slash Cut Exhaust. I ordered a jet kit for my bike after starting to notice my new exhaust is starting to turn tan/brown/ I since haven't rode it because fear of burning the motor up getting it hot. So my ? is could someone please tell me which Main jet I need from the kit I got. I received a 150,155, and 160 main jet. The brand jet kit is Sigma Jet Kits and I have had so many mix recommendations that I want to get it close to right as I can so I don't mess up my bike which only has 7k miles on it and is in very good condition. I also have posted this question on the Savage Facebook page and there are many others with the exact same setup as mine wanting a good answer. I emailed Sigma and haven't heard back from them yet so figured I could try here and talk to someone who actually has worked on this exact model and not just general motorcycles. Any Help would be great. Thank you in advance.

Title: Re: carb jetting- a progressive guide
Post by Serowbot on 06/05/15 at 18:11:35

Newbs,... put your questions in the Rubberside section...

You'll get more help there...
Tech section is for information, not questions...

Study here... questions in the RSD... ;)...