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Message started by Oldfeller2 on 12/09/07 at 12:17:48

Title: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by Oldfeller2 on 12/09/07 at 12:17:48

$10 Supermagnet on the oil filter
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=RubberSideDown;action=display;num=1175727064

contains the origin thread for this idea. You can read there for the full story behind this idea.

=================================

First, why would you do this?

To 100% capture all the iron/steel trash that recirculates in your oil to cut down on wear and damage to gears, chains, cylinder walls, etc.

=================================

Where to buy the magnet
http://www.supermagnetman.net/product_info.php?products_id=414

Now this is the much bigger really large strong $14.00 supermagnet that does require some reinforcement to the oil filter holding system because it is so big and heavy.

http://www.supermagnetman.net/images/r1250.gif

Plus, by magnetizing all the steel in the oil filter itself then all the trash comes out with the filter (attached firmly to it) when you change the filter, you just wait to pull the magnet off the face of the filter until after you are holding it over the trash can -- you then throw the filter and the iron trash away all in the same motion.

There is a lot more surface area in the filter to attach tiny iron/steel particulate trash to when you consider the front and back of the filter steel (inside and out) and all the area of the perforated center steel cylinder that runs down the middle of the oil filter.

When the entire oil filter steel all becomes strongly magnetic, nothing is going to be able to avoid it (100% iron/steel particle removal per EACH pass through the filter). Remember, the oil gets very intimate with the center perforated cylinder holes (oil gets within an eighth of an inch to the side of one of the perforation holes and remember that steel is magnetized enough to move a large paper clip that is 4 inches away straight up vertically into the air).

This beats a little magnetic spud no matter where you put it.

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by Oldfeller2 on 12/09/07 at 12:32:46

How would you put such a big magnet in place and reinforce the oil filter holding system so it doesn't move when you hit a bump, etc.

http://photos.gunloads.com/images/Oldfeller/tabs.jpg

You get some 1/16" thick standard Permatex cork gasket material and use hi-temp red RTV gasket sealer to glue some little 1" long, 1/2" wide strips to the inside of your oil filter cover. You use the magnet itself to snuggle the strips down into conformance with the right angle bend at the edge of the cover and to hold everything in place 'till the red stuff sets up good.

The tabs both position the magnet correctly AND give it a slight engagement force to the oil filter such that the magnet cannot move at all when the cover is bolted down.

You still use the little spring, BTW, it helps align everything prior to the screws pulling down. You put the magnet into the cover, put the spring over the spud (the magnet grabs it, but holds it about perpendicular) you put the filter over the spring and stick the whole shebang into the recess at the same time.

You double check to make sure the little "O" ring is in place on the spud inside the cover and then fiddle things back & forth a bit until the cover will seat correctly. Add screws, tighten until first engagement is felt. The big "O" ring on the outer edge of the cover and the four gasket tabs get mildly compressed as you gently and evenly engage the screws that last vital 1/16" of an inch.

Something the picture doesn't show that I did modify was to trim the inside corners off the gasket tabs where they get close to each other near the center boss on the cover. I did this to allow ample bypass oil flow which has to go between the cork strips. I cut off the corners such that about a quarter of each corner is now making a "flat tipped arrow" pointing at the center boss. This permits full bypass oil flow in case I should ever need it.

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by Oldfeller2 on 12/09/07 at 12:57:26

Now, how strong is this magnet again?

(hint -- they don't call it a supermagnet for nothing)

http://photos.gunloads.com/images/Oldfeller/customwrenchholder.jpg

Yes, the magnet is strong enough to hold up a major open end wrench all by its lonesome right through the aluminum cover. It magnetizes the stamped steel plates and the perforated steel inner cylinder of the oil filter to the same sort of degree.

The opposite side of the oil filter from the installed magnet is magnetized enough to cause a heavy paper clip to jump up four inches vertically up into the air -- I think the attractive forces put on any steel particles in the oil flow may be equally severe.

This picture was taken after an oil change and three months of use, so the supermagnet does not lose appreciable amounts of strength due to the relatively low actual temperatures our oil gets up to during the summer months in the south.

Oil would have to get over 500 degrees F to begin to degrade the supermagnet permanently, temps less than that can only cause temporary weakening of the field which recovers as soon as the magnet cools down.
Temporary weakening starts on a sliding scale at 178 degrees F and gets significant if over 350 degrees, but recovers on the same sliding scale as the temp comes back down. Our oil temps are around 150 F "normally" with spikes going up to about 200 max on a hot summer day.

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by Oldfeller2 on 12/09/07 at 13:14:39

I left the magnet and the oil filter in place for a full riding year, during which time my oil got dirty and got changed 5 times. My purpose was to see if there was any adverse amount of build up of iron/steel particles around the small punched holes on the inside sheet metal cylinder of the oil filter.

What I found when I took the filter down was interesting, the paper filter element looked pretty much new with no noticeable bits of debris on the paper pleats. A year was OK for the paper part of the filter ......

http://photos.gunloads.com/images/Oldfeller/stalactites.jpg

But lookie at all them iron and steel bits following the magnetic field lines radiating out from the corners and flanges of the steel parts of the oil filter itself. Reminds me of one of those little cheapie iron filing "Put a Beard on the Pirate" magnetic toys I used to play with in the car on long trips back when I was a kid.

You may need to copy the pics over to your desktop and expand them to clearly see the magnetic iron filings still sticking out into the air, trapped by the strong magnetic field. Not only are they still there, they are still sticking straight out like stalagmites.

http://photos.gunloads.com/images/Oldfeller/magnet.jpg

Notice the four (4) bare places where the cork tabs were compressed by tightening down the cover (bare spots with no iron/steel paste on the outside of the magnet). Also note the large amount of iron/steel paste accumulated on the edges and surface of the supermagnet itself.

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by Oldfeller2 on 12/09/07 at 13:32:08

Now to the main question -- Did the little punched oil passages down inside the center steel cylinder see any adverse build up that could cause the filter to plug up and quit working?

(you need to copy this picture to your desktop and blow it up with your favorite picture editor)

http://photos.gunloads.com/images/Oldfeller/holes.jpg

I eyeballed the little inside cylinder holes with a magnifying glass and then rubbed them with a Qtip to see what came off. The size of the stuff is powder super-fine but there is a spray of it both in the hole and coming out of the hole down the inner side of the perforated cylinder. There is a similar super thin coat of fine particles on the outside of the steel slug housing that holds the spring for the bypass valve. All of these areas are "post filter" particles that would have gone on to cause wear on ball bearing balls, bearing races, cam bearing surfaces, rollers etc.

I don't think the oil flow was reduced any by these tiny thin fine accumulation amounts, but the super fine particles that were able to get through the paper filter were still being trapped magnetically while going through the holes -- making the same sort of fine magnetic force line spray pattern as everywhere else, but infinitely small in nature.

Vtail keeps wishing for magnetic particle removal of both the large pre-filtration particles and a finer removal of the much smaller particles that CAN make it through the filter paper -- I think he finally gets what he's been asking for with this large magnet method.

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by Oldfeller2 on 12/09/07 at 13:46:37

Cleaning off the supermagnet was difficult -- the greasy fine metal particles couldn't be rinsed off with solvent or hot water and soap (magnetic bonds were too strong).

I wound up trashing one of my wife's ugly bathroom face cloths to polish the stuff off by actively embedding it into the fabric.

There was a lot of the black fine stuff. There was a lot more of it still enclosed by the steel of the oil filter when I threw it away too, but it just went into the can with the used filter.

In conclusion, for $14, I think the supermagnet on the oil filter idea works a whole lot better than the $17 magnetic oil plug trick.

When you go to get your $14 supermagnet, spring for a few of these little bitty rectangular magnets for 80 cents each to use as sensor pickups for a Sigma Sports or Vapor speedometer. These are strong enough to put on the top face of your front rim and still send a signal all the way over to the sensor mounted on the fender support bracket (makes Sigmas and Vapors much easier to mount as the strong signal bridges the larger air gap). The little magnets can ride for free on the same shipping charge as the big magnet.

Buy the little magnets here
http://www.supermagnetman.net/product_info.php?products_id=346

http://www.supermagnetman.net/images/rect0755.gif

If you do a Sigma Sport speedo unit, use the mile marker setting trick as explained below (much easier to do).

If you take a trip on an interstate just stop at a mile marker and restart your computer as per this guy's directions and write down all the info you get when you stop at a goodly distant mile marker. Mile markers are not dead nuts accurate as individuals, but when you are averaging say 40 to 100 of them you get a very very accurate setting for your speedo computer.

Here is the instructions and calculator that makes all this math and mm-to-mph translation dirt easy.

http://www.geocities.com/toms_toys/bc80c.html

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by Oldfeller2 on 12/09/07 at 17:43:52

You can feel it if you pass the toe of your steel toed work shoes past it on purpose. Other than that, no issues.

It has grabbed the allen wrench a time or two when I went to turn the screws causing me to miss the hole though. You get used to it being there after a miss or two.

================================

Now this one is a real wrench snatcher, I rarely change the oil without having to wrassle it for the wrench (it slides it across the concrete if I get it within 6 inches of it).

http://photos.gunloads.com/images/Oldfeller/hammerfar.jpg

The topic for this thread is http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=cafe;action=display;num=1177446748;start=23#23

(Note on 1-4-2008 -- this entire thread disappeared from the Cafe due to old age, yeah, even our topics can get so old they get senile and get sent to the old folks home in the sky ..... ::))

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by T-Mack1 on 12/10/07 at 14:23:37

To clean the magnet, wash grease off first. Then get Duct tape (you can use the cheap grade stuff) . Take a small piece (2-3) inches and and start patting the magnet down with the sticky side. When the tape gets full of particles, get a new piece.

It keeps the wife happy as she doesn't loose too many towels.

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by Reelthing on 12/12/07 at 10:40:51

this is given in the specs Max Operating Temp: 80C

as you are going to go over this by 20c in the summer - what is the effect of running above the spec?

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by Oldfeller on 12/12/07 at 14:49:21

To kill a neodymium magnet you have to go up over 392 degrees F according to a US manufacturer's web specs and a University magnet expert (see below).

http://www.magnetweb.com/Sect3A.htm
reference source

If you saw 80C on the Magnetman's web page you need to email him and ask him exactly what he means by that as that is the just the start of the reversible temperature range (176 degrees F) where temporary (100% reversible when it cools back down) field density change starts to take place.

Temporary and Starts are the operant words here. Our bikes have oil temperatures going up to that range during the summer which means the magnetic field might weaken a bit temporarily when they get up to full oil temp on a hot day. That's all.

Some plastic based magnets might die (hit their Curie irreversible transformation point) at that low a temperature, but not a neodymium rare earth magnet.

Go figure .... worst he can say is that is the range were temporary slight field strength temperature degradation can start to occur for simple N grade neodymium magnet materials.

I went out and did the big wrench check just now, magnet still holds it up just fine. Bike is still hot from being ridden, so our oil and case temperature ranges apparently don't degrade the field strength very much.

================================

Thermal Characteristics

Material (Br) Reversible Curie

N -0.12 80ºC (176ºF) 310ºC (590ºF)

NM -0.12 100ºC (212ºF) 340ºC (644ºF)

NH -0.11 120ºC (248ºF) 340ºC (644ºF)

NSH -0.10 150ºC (302ºF) 340ºC (644ºF)

NUH -0.10 180ºC (356ºF) 350ºC (662ºF)

NEH -0.10 200ºC (392ºF) 350ºC (662ºF)

Interpret chart as follows:

Reversible Temp = temperature where field strength begins to drop temporarily as temperature goes up.

Curie Temp = temperature where irreversible changes to a magnet's field strength actually do take place.

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by vtail on 12/28/07 at 17:28:35

Allways got one problem with this method. You see, this build up on the outside of the filter is from oil that has not been filtered yet (return oil) and the magnet does the job of removing metal particles before the filter gets a chance, IOW the filter is filtering oil minus metallic particles. A better job would be if you could tap and place a magnet in the filtered oil, like oil thats going to your cambearings etc. You might find out that there's almost none that way. In aircrafts we open up the filter with a special cutter and check for metallic debris ;)

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by barry68v10 on 12/30/07 at 04:13:32

767461696C000 wrote:

But the filter itself should last longer and be more efficient with less metallic particles in it, right?

Also, don't the particles on the INSIDE of the filter give you an indication of what would be in your filtered oil stream?

Methinks Oldtimer's method should improve engine/transmission life in the thumper....or any other internal combustion engine. ;)

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by Oldfeller on 12/31/07 at 06:23:09

Vtail, please remember the inner core (perforated steel cylinder) on the inside of the filtration element gets stongly magnetized too. It does pick up the fine fine fine metal dust that makes it through the filter paper as all the oil goes through the little holes in the inner perforated cylinder getting within 1/8" of a strongly magnetized surface.

So, yes you do get what you were asking for, both pre and post filter metal removal and you do get it 100% on all the oil going through the engine. And yes, it should help somewhat with engine life as all that stuff isn't causing extra wear to various ball bearing balls and rollers and such.

Payback analysis ===================

I went for a year on one oil filter, not that it is recommended mind you, but let's say conservatively you just cut your filter use in half by pre-screening and post-screening all the steel and iron particles out of the oil using the magnet.

You pay from $3 to $5 a filter depending on where you pick them up. The magnet cost $14 so as soon as you would avoid paying for four filters you will have paid yourself back for buying the magnet.

All the wear / downtime you avoid by stopping all the metal particles from recirculating in the oil is all "plus dollars saved", but this would be very difficult to document or calculate in advance.

Oldfeller

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by Oldfeller on 03/16/08 at 04:41:40

Folks have been trying this trick using stock Suzuki oil filters and have discovered that the stock Suzuki filter is longer than the EMCO aftermarket oil filter that the trick was developed with.

They can still put in the magnet, but do not have room for the strips of gasket material. Some have reported post installation oil leaks when using a stock Suzuki filter even without the strips (no room?).

So, unless you are planning to use EMCO aftermarket oil filters you may consider not performing this mod.

Why? Because those strips of gasket material provide ROOM FOR BY-PASS OIL FLOW past the magnet around the front of the oil filter and through the bypass valve. Not planning to have bypass oil flow (in case you need it) isn't a good idea.

So, this mod only works with EMCO aftermarket oil filters. Plan on getting some from JC Whitney or BikeBandit (they are a lot less expensive than Suzuki filters --$2.99 each -- so you can get a half-dozen while you are at it).

EMCO aftermarket oil filters apparently are what makes the room that makes this mod work right.

Oldfeller

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by skrapiron on 03/19/08 at 07:54:51

Looking at the supplied photographs, it appears that the filter media never had a chance to do its job, due to the magnetic field.

The oil pump pushes the unfilterd oil through the gallery passeges around the outside of the oil filter (through the perforated holes on the spin-on type filters). The oil is then drawn through the filter media under pressure through the central hole, then pumped to the engine.

Standard paper element oil filters have an average single pass efficiency of 97% for 30 micron particles. 20 micron particles are between 82-85% efficiency. A human hair is 70-90 microns thick. That means a standard paper element oil filter can remove particles 1/2 to 1/3 the thickness of a human hair.

By adding the magnetic field to the oil filter itself, ferrous particles were attracted to the filter housing, instead of being filtered from the oil by the media. Most of what was trapped by the field would have been trapped by the oil filter, but some smaller particles would have passed through.

A K&N high efficiency oil filter has a single pass filtration efficiency of 99.7% for 30 micron particles, 95.6% efficiency for 20 micron particles and 88% efficiency for 10 micron particles.

Magnatizing a standard oil filter offers a few advantages. One, is it will extend the service life of the filter itself. Second, it will remove particles generally too small for the standard filter media to trap. But a similar level filtration can be achieved using a high efficiency oil filter (with synthetic filter media). The biggest advantage of a high efficiency filter is the clean-up. The wife won't be yelling about her hand towels...

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by Oldfeller on 03/19/08 at 15:26:47

Experience with the magnet pre-removing most of the solids (which are apparently ferrous and not clutch wear products like I originally thought) can lead you to consider longer oil filter use intervals.

The little tiny particles that can get through the paper still do get caught by the strong magnetic field projecting down the central steel perforated pipe as the magnetic field is still radiating out across each of the many little 1/8" hole diameters.

If you want to think of it as a "premium plus" normal filtration job that's OK -- just remember it is using the cheap filter on a year long change interval and still performing like a premium plus filter for the entire extended period.

An advantage to this "use the cheap filter and a magnet" method over an expensive premium plus element is the finer filtration paper in the premium plus filter might tend to plug up within a year if used without a supporting super magnet to pre-collect a lot of the metal trash which would be of a size to block up that fine synthetic paper element (such as in the STP Premium Plus filter).

It's worth thinking about -- pay a lot more for a shorter use time at the same actual metal removal efficiency? Or pay half as much for twice as long (up to a year) at same actual metal removal efficiency?

Old Jedi Master Yoda would clout you on the noggin and take your light saber away for missing this sort of question ...

<grin>

But please do remember to use the shorter EMCO filter and the cork strips so you have bypass oil available to your engine in case you need it. Bypass oil flow ... don't leave home without it.

Oldfeller

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by Oldfeller on 04/07/08 at 14:36:13

We got some update information from more folks trying this mod -- seems there may be some machining variations in the amount of material removed when cutting the main side cover castings when facing everything off.

The ones with relatively more cutting done to them have slightly shallower cavities for the filter and the magnet to stack up against.

We also have a reported success with a Suzuki stock filter -- so go figure boys and girls, she's a luck of the draw mod unless you use the EMCO cheapie oil filter.

But stock filters can work ....

No failures reported to date using the $2.99 EMCO filter because it is shorter than the average bear by 1-2 little red smidgens (which always gives enough room to put in your VERY NECESSARY cork strips).

Gotta have that bypass oil flow -- don't leave home without it.

Oldfeller

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by Oldfeller on 12/10/08 at 00:07:03

Every Christmas season they put these super magnets on sale -- this year the discount is a relatively large 15% discount, so if you have any interest in getting the junk iron/steel particles out of your motor oil this would be a good time to try the trick out.

The 15% discount is applied as you check out of the e-store.

http://www.supermagnetman.net/product_info.php?products_id=414

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by sakara on 12/10/08 at 13:04:15

Picked one up based on this post about a month ago. Thanks for the heads up Old Man. :)

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by Oldfeller on 10/21/09 at 07:48:59

OK, some time has passed and let's see what's what about the magnet trick. Today's date is 10/21/09 and I have been running a one year oil and filter change interval on Rotella Synthetic oil, 5w40 weight having used this oil for running on most of two years now.

First data bit, the amount of ferrous trash found on magnetic plug and supermagnet has been reduced using the Rotella Syn oil. This can be interpreted any way you wish, it is just noted here along with empirical pictorial proof.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/Low_amounts_of_mud1.JPG

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/fuzz_on_the_can1.JPG

=============

Next, what is the effect on the oil filter paper element by running a one year oil change interval? Is the interval too long and is the filter paper getting overloaded? Exactly what sort of crap is being caught by the filter paper?

I backflushed the filter by pouring gasoline in through the center hole and letting it backflush out the filter element into a catch bowl. I let it settle then carefully poured off the gasoline leaving all the solids behind. I then flushed the gasoline out of the filter by force spraying carb cleaner through the center hole once again backflushing the filter element from the inside out catching it in the same bowl. What you see are all the solids that came out of the filter (after letting the carb cleaner evaporate).

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/backflushing_filter.JPG

Now I rubbed the stuff in the bowl, feeling for solids and yes there were some hard solids present. I sprayed off my finger tip with carb cleaner and rinsed the bowl edges down so all solids were "liquified" in the same small amount of carb cleaner. I then introduced the edge of the supermagnet to see what was ferrous and what was not.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/magnet.JPG

The vast majority of what the filter paper had caught was more of the same ferrous crap that the magnet had been catching all along. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but I was expecting to find more clutch wear or gasket bits or something else non-ferrous. Amazingly, no aluminum bits were found at all. Also, there was no mineral grit from dirt or dust (so filter system is working well enough to stop all discernible sized dust particles.

Here is what remains, a tiny flake or two of gasket sealer stuff.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/non-ferrous.JPG

=============

Tentative Conclusions:

The vast majority of the non-gas, non-carb cleaner soluble materials produced by my engine are ferrous materials. The super magnet is effective in capturing the majority of these particles with only a small minority becoming engaged with the paper filter element. Dirt is being stopped by the heavy oil air filter system.

A two year filter exam interval is perhaps appropriate, with oil change to take place yearly as I really can't stomach not changing the oil at least once a year.

Rotella Syn 5w40 oil is working as well or better than Mobil 1 20w50 the previous oil used and pictorially represented by the earlier supermagnet collection pictures upstream in this tread.

This improvement is highlighted by my "wickerish ways" which started mostly after I quit using the Mobil 20w50 Extended oil, which I dropped because it quit being available with >10 PPM of ZDDP as Mobil changed the oil's formulation without any outside announcements.

Now the filter element, once dryed of all cleaners was examined with a magnifying glass and I found nothing in the pleats, nothing. I am gonna reuse that little sucker ....

.... yeah, Gort -- I'm a cheap bastard, I know

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by youzguyz on 10/21/09 at 07:57:20

OF.. How many miles per year?

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by Oldfeller on 10/21/09 at 08:26:36

Low of 3,000 with high of 5,000 -- it varies according to how far it is to whatever work is this particular year.

I ride the Purple People Eater on the longer trips since I've got it, so the Savage gets mostly run around town stop and go, slam and bam for its yearly quota of miles.

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by runwyrlph on 10/22/09 at 06:23:00

6C4F4745464F4F465111230 wrote:

. This permits full bypass oil flow in case I should ever need it.

hey oldfeller - just to be sure i get it ...do we WANT oil to bypass the filter? Is the idea that it's a small amount and will get filtered next time around anyway?

thanks

ps are oldfeller and oldfeller2 related? :-?

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by Oldfeller on 10/22/09 at 09:15:47

I registered originally under the name Oldfeller and then the list upgraded software and sent my new access code to an obsolete email account. I re-registered and ran as Oldfeller2 for a year or so until Jon recovered the old passwords for a group of us who were caught out in the change. I then went back to my original name which I use now. Justin got caught in the same mess as did several others.

=============

Built into your filter body is a bypass valve (faces you when the filter is installed correctly). The purpose of the bypass valve is to open when resistance pressure across the paper filter element exceeds the spring value of the bypass valve spring. Then oil comes in thru the hole as well as going through the paper.

Normal running you don't want the bypass oil pathway used (and it isn't), you want all oil to go thru the filter element (and it does).

But during very high speed bursts having bypass oil flow means you GET full oil flow even though the filter element cannot supply all of it, some of it comes through the bypass. Also, should your filter element become "full" or become blocked for some reason, normal running still gets a normal flow of oil through the bypass.

You gotta have a full flow of oil. Bypass oil flow is your "aw crap" insurance for your engine to keep it alive when things go wrong. Having seen what interrupted oil flow does to an engine at speed you don't want to NOT have bypass oil flow available. Symptoms of stopped oil flow would look like this:

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1246336685/0#0

Pretty ugly sounding stuff, huh?

With the supermagnet system as shown, you DO get bypass oil when you need it and the bypass oil has to go around both ends and across the entire face of the magnet so all ferrous materials are trapped before going down the bypass hole.

So, I guess you can say the big magnet gives you full ferrous filtration even on your occasional bypass oil flow -- not a bad thing as almost all of our trash is ferrous.

=============

Wickers, you need the supermagnet trick as you go bypass every time you crank your right hand all the way to the throttle stop. You also need the best wicking oil found so far, Rotella Synthetic. Here is a 13,650 mile teardown of the tappets and cam journals of my much abused engine -- Rotella Syn takes good care of me!!

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/Condition_of_tappets.JPG

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by Boule’tard on 10/23/09 at 15:32:49

Concerning the bypass valve -- You've got a magnet that's both larger in diameter than the filter, and looks like it takes up all the space between the filter and cover, except for the thickness of the cork strips, is that right?

If that's correct I'd be afraid to run it wide open because it seems like there'd be a lot more drag on the oil on its way to the bypass valve. So the oil would either be forced through the paper faster than the filter was designed to handle (perhaps knocking holes in the fibers) or the oil pump would be overtaxed and some of the oil would go nowhere.

I think this is a great idea, and I'm magnetizing my filter as we speak, just with a smaller magnet. In about 400 more miles I'll do a filter change and see the results. It probably isn't catching as much metal as yours, but may be a good compromise. I'll take careful measurements of the outer and inner diameters as well as thickness (sold as 5mm I think) and I'm curious what the dimensions of your magnet are vs. the clearances we have to work with.

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by Oldfeller on 10/23/09 at 17:37:16

If there was a real issue with wicking oil pressure blowing holes in the filter paper with the large filter, I'd have found it already. I am a wicker, and a right bad'un too. Since the bypass valve is still active in this design and the filter paper is not plugged up such pressure build up is not very likely.

As far as bypass oil flow room, calculate the area for flow that can go past the valve gap when it gets cracked open and you will see the area available for bypass flow to go past the magnet greatly exceeds it. Or you can calculate the area of the main oil passage and compare it to the bypass area past the magnet. (the area shown in black at the inner edge of the magnet vs the diameter of the bypass hole in the center or the similar sized oil passage)

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/Low_amounts_of_mud1.JPG

But there is a smaller thinner magnet mentioned earlier in the base thread, so use that one if you prefer. Being both weaker and allowing more distance for flow to go past it at a further distance it will be less effective. It will allow some more ferrous crap to hit the filter paper, but there is lots & lots of collection room in that filter that is not getting used now anyway so that is no great sin.

During bypass with no magnet the ferrous laden oil does go around again -- but is this fatal? Nope, remember the point the lady made earlier about the Honda screen & no filter small bikes that have no functional 30 micron filtration at all -- they recirculate all the ferrous stuff big and small up to the size of a fine bug screen all the time. They survive OK for years and years.

But, you can do better than this with your Savage.

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by Boule’tard on 10/23/09 at 18:21:54

Very well thought out OldFeller, thanks for the explanation. I may get a bigger magnet if I see that mine isn't catching much.

About those Hondas with the coarse screen and centrifugal filter.. they must be doing something right, because it's really hard to wear one out. But still, on that bike I'm experimenting with a disk magnet on the spring that holds the screen in place. We'll see what it snags.

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by Oldfeller on 10/24/09 at 02:05:06

Bouletard, these are the third & 4th types of magnets that I tried -- they are pressed metal and cadmium plated for a reason.

I originally tried the pressed organics (plastic looking magnets) and found that oil will soften them over time. Plus the temperature the bike reaches takes them past their Curie point and they lose magnetic field strength. The plastic looking ceramics are not really suitable for this use.

Make sure you stick with plated hard metal super magnets as you try out your early experiments.

As far as being well thought out -- the list as a whole is a pretty smart critter and things that have been discussed out over a period of time generally turn out pretty good.

"We" as a whole are a pretty smart inventer/tinkerer.

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by MotoBuddha on 01/04/11 at 08:30:54

It's a year or so later and the supermagnetman.net links in this and the original article only go to a generic "product not found" page.

I searched through the ring magnets and the closest I've found to the one you used seems to be the R1201 -- 2" OD, 1" ID, 0.25" thick, N40 -- $10. But it has only an 80C max temp rating.

Do you have a part number?

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by Oldfeller on 01/04/11 at 11:17:30

I looked through his site and it looks as if he no longer has the large ring magnets available any more.

The smaller magnets have an issue, they are not supported by the aluminum cover so when you hit a bump the entire filter will move with the bump (not a good thing).

You would have to go light enough for the spring retaining system for the oil filter to be able to control the filter during bumps, etc.

That would put you back down into this type or class of much thinner magnets.

http://photos.gunloads.com/images/Oldfeller/pict0004.jpg

For more information on selecting a magnet read the original developement thread.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1175727064/0

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by Boule’tard on 01/04/11 at 11:33:19

Procycle (www.procycle.us) has a magnet for the DR650 oil filter than should work for the savage. It is a bit pricey at 12 bucks, but has a really good strength to weight ratio. You could catch some air on your bike without dislodging the magnet. Maybe there is a similar magnet out there, just as strong for 5 bucks or less. It doesn't look difficult to manufacture.

http://www.procycle.us/images/oilfiltermagnet1_tb.jpg

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by MotoBuddha on 01/04/11 at 12:19:04

Is there a reason not to epoxy the magnet to the filter cover?

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by Oldfeller on 01/04/11 at 12:31:09

Once you hold one of these relatively large strong things in your hand and put it next to a piece of steel I think you will be able to answer your own question.

The spring that pushes the filter back into the housing to seat it on the "O" ring is of a fixed low strength. Magnetic force increases by the inverse square law, the closer you get the stronger it gets.

The answer about gluing the magnet to the cover is "something is gonna move some when you hit a bump" and my bet would be you'd find the glued magnet in full contact with the steel filter can, the little spring compressed & helpless and oil input flow connection at the back of the housing popped open and the oil bypassing the filter completely.

Besides, you want the magnet in contact with the filter can -- when you do this the inner steel core of the filter gets magnetized and acts as the final post paper magnetic trap for the very very fine particles.

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by MotoBuddha on 01/04/11 at 12:54:30

I thought the cork strips took out any slack between the filter and magnet. Or is that not what you meant when you wrote, "The tabs both position the magnet correctly AND give it a slight engagement force to the oil filter such that the magnet cannot move at all when the cover is bolted down."

Assuming one could find a magnet of the same thickness as the one you used, wouldn't the filter still be pressed firmly against the O-ring at one end and the magnet-cork-cover at the other?

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by Boule’tard on 01/04/11 at 13:23:33

10333B393A33333A2D5F0 wrote:

Besides, you want the magnet in contact with the filter can -- when you do this the inner steel core of the filter gets magnetized and acts as the final post paper magnetic trap for the very very fine particles.

True, by sticking the magnet on the filter, you're effectively magnetizing a much larger area that can snag metal out of the oil flow. I suppose one could epoxy the magnet to the case, but then that would preclude using the donut shaped magnet, because you'd either not be magnetizing the filter, or you filled the whole gap and lost the function of your bypass valve.

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by Oldfeller on 01/04/11 at 16:34:53

The big ring magnet engaged radially to the cover recess and with the face/length crush to the "O" ring it was trapped from in-out movement, securing the magnet from moving in any direction.

With the smaller diameter .250 thick magnet you propose you are giving up the radial control element completely and are trying to keep the face crush in effect but over a smaller engagement surface area.

Try it, and after you run it a while you can see what wear effects show up on your corks, etc to judge if things are moving around on you any.

Don't forget to provide for bypass oil flow --- its a lifesaver when the filter get plugged up for whatever reason.

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by Yonuh Adisi FSO on 02/12/11 at 22:29:34

For those of you who may be considering magnetizing their oil filter. This is a good place to get neo magnets. It's where I get the magnets for my wind turbine project.

http://stores.ebay.com/Neodymium-Magnet-For-Less/Neo-Rings-Tubes-/_i.html?_fsub=4&_sid=59166560&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by Fujisawa Rob on 04/04/11 at 13:50:08

How thick are those magnets?

I always stick a neodymium hard drive magnet on the oil pan of my cars. They don't budge. They're fairly thick. Could one fit in front of the filter? They're free...

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by Oldfeller on 08/24/11 at 08:31:04

Folks have been struggling to find an appropriate magnet that is big enough to do the job and still light enough to be supported by the can/spring/"O" ring mounting system.

This one currently is available for $8.75 and it is the original magnet that the trick was worked up with.

================

Price your magnetic drain plugs, they were $17 when I bought mine many moons ago. They work, but they don't get it all on every pass like magnetizing the oil filter can does. Awful small magnet for twice the price that this 10 times larger ring style magnet goes for ....

This is $8.75 plus shipping and is a whole lot more magnet.

http://www.supermagnetman.net/product_info.php?cPath=41&products_id=404

http://www.supermagnetman.net/images/r1105.gif

=================

The huge magnet that is shown in the thread is currently unavailable, sorry. Should it ever come back, we'll put a note in here.

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by Fujisawa Rob on 08/24/11 at 10:26:42

The last time I changed the oil I stuck three thin hard drive magnets on the filter. The seemed to stay in place fine and are very light. Hopefully if I cut the filter open on the next change I can tell if they're actually doing anything.

Title: Re: Supermagnetizing your oil filter
Post by Oldfeller on 09/23/11 at 13:28:33

This is a tech thread, not a Cafe or RSD discussion -- if you want to fight over the best kind of magnet to use (or none at all) go crank yourself up a Cafe discussion thread and have at it.

This Tech thread is locked to further comments.