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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Cam Chain Adjuster Life /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1192027390 Message started by verslagen1 on 10/10/07 at 07:43:09 |
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Title: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by verslagen1 on 10/10/07 at 07:43:09 If we're going to complain about it we better get our facts straight. I'll tabulate and post here as the data comes in. Let's reply here with: year mileage, old or new adjuster plunger extension chain stretch indications (why did you open her up) repair action taken (what did you replace) Type of Oil? Rider type? agressive moderate newb etc? where do you ride the most (freeways, highways, around town, etc.) Number of Previous Owners? http://www.savageriders.com/verslagen/CamChainClub/adjuster_life.jpg How to tell if you have a New vs. old adjuster big difference is in main spring. old Ø .384, wire Ø .040, 2.80 length new Ø .330, wire Ø .038, 2.66 length |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by YonuhAdisi on 10/10/07 at 08:31:41 Year 2000 Approximately 13,500 Replaced tensioner guide new tensioner/adjuster (depends on who and what you talk to) New cam-chain New guide New rings (what the heck, had tore down anyway) Old tensioner/adjuster completely separated and flopping around like a fresh caught fish. Don't know about chain stretch, just replaced it anyway. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by youzguyz on 10/10/07 at 08:38:58 I don't know this counts, but you can use it as a data point. Year: 2002 9,000 miles Why: incorrect diagnostic of ticking noise. Adjuster at 15mm. Replaced with VerSlavy and kept in original hole. I'll just run it that way until it starts getting noisy, then move it to the 2nd hole. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by verslagen1 on 10/10/07 at 08:43:45 '96 with 20736 miles replaced tensioner guide. modified old style adjuster to verslavy. tensioner attached to second hole. Plunger was extended to 22mm, Cam chain stretch 127.5mm 5.02" Estimated life of chain 50k |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by Savage_Rob on 10/10/07 at 09:20:29 1998 Savage 9,750 miles when this was done original stock adjuster at 16mm replaced with VerSlavy mod on second hole will check again in 6k-8k miles or if it starts talking to me |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by youzguyz on 10/10/07 at 09:29:22 verslagen1 wrote:
How would one know what type it is? I sent my old one to you, should have some marks on the cylinder every 5mm. Might also say YZGZ on the barrel. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by skrapiron on 10/10/07 at 09:38:38 2004 Savage 12,421 miles original adjuster original cam chain Plunger was just 11mm out at 11k service. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by SteveRocket on 10/10/07 at 14:41:03 87 16500 Miles Adjuster was close to falling apart replaced with Verslavy Guides seemed OK Additional Info 12440 Miles when I got it and the bike was stock Adjuster needed changing 4000 miles later of mixed driving but a lot of freeway approx 70 miles x 5 days per week Rotella T dino car oil changed every 2-3000 miles Filter changed every other |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by YonuhAdisi on 10/10/07 at 20:43:05 Verslagen, I modified my original post to include my bike's year, it's a 2000. Just thought I'd mention it since your table doesn't have it. But this is a very good idea. Make a chart/table of everyone who's had to do the chain tensioner/adjuster and at what miles. It should give some very good data. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by steely on 10/10/07 at 20:56:15 1999 model 17,800 miles Adjuster was disengaged (spring was below main drive gear) Replaced Chain and Tensioner (movable guide) This was the original adjuster, I assume it was the old style No other mods yet, but am contemplating a Verslavy mod for the next time |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by azjay on 10/11/07 at 06:52:59 '96 model, 9600 miles, boom! ( mechanic failed to complete oil change) :-[ '97 replacement motor, 8000 miles, tensioner extended 20mm, new chain guide did not improve, verslavy mod installed and running. '86 model, mileage unknown, boom! |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by Savage_Greg on 10/11/07 at 07:41:31 - Specs 2000 Savage Single owner. 14,000 miles. Chain at 127.4 MM or 5.015 inches. Tensioner measure at about 18 MM. Reinstalled stock tensioner. Installed new stock chain. Tensioner measure at about 10 MM. Stock guides. - Maintenance/Rider habits Regular oil changes using motorcycle specific dino oil. Moderate speeds Low RPM cruising (occasional lugging) :P |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by T-Mack1 on 10/11/07 at 07:53:58 2001 bought bike @ 10460 miles, engine in pieces due to metled piston. Sorry, the tensioner was apart too so don't have measurement. Cam chain measured 127.25mm and guides show little wear. I replaced the chain anyway as preventive measure. Stock tensioner reinstalled with new chian. The PO sounded like he did mainly highway/freeway driving. Sounded like sedate driver talking to him. He was not mechanically inclined. He was original owner (me = 2nd). |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by Dr_Jim on 10/11/07 at 08:04:29 - |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by rokrover on 10/11/07 at 08:12:42 Good to have data to determine MTBF (mean time before failure). So it seems Suzuki recognized some issue by modifying the tensioner spring to reduce force? I wonder if your data will show these later engines have improved cam drivetrain life. Maybe the difference will be lost in the noise caused by riding style, oil quality, change interval and so on. I don't intend to take a look at mine till around the 10K mark (unless noisy). Meanwhile, I look forward to some interesting conclusions. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by jkhulon73 on 10/11/07 at 08:18:20 Year: 1987 Miles: 7492 Original Adjuster: yes? Plunger extension: 20.5mm Cam Chain Stretch: 128.2mm Estimated life of chain: I’ll trust someone else to tell me what that should have been (a rational man would expect it to last longer than 7500 miles...) Indications: noisy valves regardless of adjustment/bad vibrations Repair actions: Tensioner guide: original looks fine to me, will reuse Adjuster: the original looks fine for now, minimal wear, some surface polshing; intend to replace with Verslavy when my $$$ situation is better Front Guide: looks fine as well, will reuse Cam Chain: pulled original and ordered new, special-order chain (waiting for delivery ;D ) I'm the third owner. Second owner swears that the mileage is accurate and that he only put about 2,000 miles on it himself. I've only put about 620 miles on it. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by Savage_Greg on 10/11/07 at 10:43:14 Stinger needs to add his, which will change the whole Bell curve I think. If he doesn't, I think that I can :) |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by Savage_Rob on 10/11/07 at 11:44:16 The indications on mine should be inspection, I guess. I just wanted to put the modded adjuster in mine to avoid catastrophic separation while I was into that side to replace the clutch springs. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by skrapiron on 10/11/07 at 11:50:58 Add to the chart: Freeway, synthetic oil and easy does it riding. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by youzguyz on 10/11/07 at 12:05:51 Updates: indications: the noise wasn't the cam chain, so, like Rob, I was just in there. Did the measurement, put in the new tensioner. oil: Mobil 1 VTwin mostly found on: local style: moderate speeds. P.O. : 2 (I got it at 3,800 miles) |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/11/07 at 12:19:14 Replaced chain at 12,000 miles, tensioner at 18mm. I had used only MC 10/40 or 20/40 to that point. Bought new & broke in mostly by the book. Some highway miles, ridden to MY ability. I didnt baby it. I didnt just try to blow it up, either. The chain has another 5 or 6 thousand miles in it ( IF the amount of stretch can be extrapolated & the wear calculated), but the whole tensioner system working (Failing?)together allows the spring loaded adjuster to extend to the max allowable long before the chain is used up.. Crappy design.. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by Savage_Rob on 10/11/07 at 12:44:17 If this goes into the mix... I always use full synthetic oil, either 15W50 or 20W50, changed every 2500 miles or sooner. About 50% of my riding is freeway at 65-70 MPH with about 40% city/town riding (i.e. light to light) and the remaining 10% easygoing pleasure riding. No speed-shifting, burnouts or wheelie attempts but we do get fairly hot weather in Dallas. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by jkhulon73 on 10/11/07 at 15:33:18 Filling in the blanks: Type of Oil? syn Rider type? agressive moderate newb etc? mod where do you ride the most (freeways, highways, around town, etc.) local |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by rigidchop on 10/11/07 at 19:04:06 approx. miles 14000 i change my riding style with my mood, sometimes fast sometimes slow i'm at least the third owner 1987 model don't know prior oil type, currently using valvoline 10/40 mc adjuster was almost apart when i pulled the cover fouling plug every third day, stalling, noisy if only about two hundred of these bikes had this problem they wouldve picked up on it sooner than 87 |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by Max_Morley on 10/11/07 at 19:30:37 '96, mileage at failure 21,000 miles, frequent oil and filter changes 1500-3000 miles depending on use, various automotive rated synthetic oil since 4000 miles when I bought it used, 1 PO . Spring loaded tensioner tensioner unit was almost apart and aluminmum housing worn out of round at the top to 3 o'clock looking at the open end. Miles from dropping on the main drive gear. Bike is loaded with faring and wide hard bags and heavy rider but tend to ride in the lower RPM ranges rather than the high I don't wind it to the misfire point before shifting and like a thumper sound so will be close to lugging around town under light load. Did not measure chain replaced it and the spring loaded tensioner, assumed the chain had worn the pins and plates that much. Guides appeared to be unworn. I did replace the crank chain gear as I fractured it using an air impact wrench set the wrong direction on disassembly. Noise was the clue and the first posting of concerns on this site prompted opening her up for inspection as the valve adjustment was OK. Performance was OK still. Max |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by YonuhAdisi on 10/11/07 at 20:46:42 my riding style is usually local in town traffic, without hard acceleration never going above 35mph. Makes occasional trip to next town which is 20 miles away on open road at 55 to 65 mph. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by verslagen1 on 10/12/07 at 08:53:40 Table updated ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by Dr_Jim on 10/18/07 at 20:00:14 - |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by rokrover on 10/19/07 at 07:14:52 Dr_Jim's observation sounds reasonable. A single cylinder with just two cam lobes certainly cycles the cam chain between slack and tension more than a multi-cylinder engine where the tension is more even and constant. My Ducati single had a gear driven OHC with a "hunting" mesh pattern - that way the same teeth don't line up every cycle so the wear is spread more evenly. My impression is our 'Zooks chain is loaded by valve spring pressure unevenly so the chain has these tight (worn) spots. One check might be the pin-to-pin measurement in several places around the chain. Is the wear (stretch) evenly distributed - anyone done this? |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by Odar on 10/19/07 at 08:21:25 19000 miles (30500 km) no noise and I havent open it up, but I am going to this winter, driving the bike very hard all the time, changed to chain 17/43 this summer so I dont rev that hard on highway speed anymore. I will update when I have measured the plunger. Had the bike since new, change oil every 3000 km (1864 miles) Odar http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/Odar1/IMG_5741.jpg?t=1192806721 |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by vtail on 10/19/07 at 09:14:26 Hey Odar, whose peg extensions and where did you get them? :) |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by Odar on 10/19/07 at 15:27:28 The forward controlls are Highway Hawkes and I bought them here in Sweden, a company order them for me direct from HH, thats 7 years ago and they still work pretty good. I think they still have them, move forward about 10 cm (4 inch). http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v124/Odar1/Odars%20Savage/i.jpg?t=1192833204 Odar |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by farmer on 12/10/07 at 08:58:29 I purchased the bike used with an indicated 5900 hundred miles on the odometer. I only met the 'wife' who was in her 30's with young kids so all I can say is it would appear to be driven by an adult. 'He' was only someone on the other end of a cell phone to me. I switched to full synthetic 0W-40 diesel oil and that when the troubles began. The clutch began to slip although never for my wife but on the two occasions that I rode it and 'got into it' a bit it slipped in every gear. I tore the bike down and found nothing wrong with the clutch but after much 'opinion seeking' I had compiled enough 'like data' that agreed that the synthetic oil in this particular case 'was the problem'. It was fortunate that I made the mistake of going with the synthetic oil it would seem as in the process I discovered that my cam chain tensioner/plunger was out 21 mm and was tipped and about ready to nose dive into the case head first. Our man in California came to the rescue with his extension and and 'pin it' mod. I was very close to having a grenade go off inside the ole' thumper. Whew! that was close. It is supposed to reach a high temperature of about 15 F tomorrow. If I think I can get out of the yard through the snow I will bundle up and go for a test ride. Film at eleven as they say or when I thaw out enough that I can move my fingers enough to work this keyboard;) |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by barry68v10 on 12/10/07 at 14:18:44 Without knowing the brand, it's harder to say for sure, but from the symptoms I'd bet the oil has friction modifiers in it...i.e. bad for wet clutches. The "synthetic" moniker isn't what caused the problem, I've been running 10-40 Amsoil full synthetic in mine since around 1200 miles (5500 or so now) with no clutch slipping despite lots of hard acceleration. It is JASO 2 rated (a m/c wet clutch rating.) On topic though, I'm glad you caught the problem but am amazed that it had a problem that quickly :-/ |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by barry68v10 on 12/10/07 at 14:23:31 Hey all, maybe we could design and market a cam gear conversion for this thing. They already exist for lots of hot rods. The main problem is the OHC design, long way to go, and the fact that I certainly don't want to create competition with Lancer's cam chain or Verslagen's Verslavy! ;D Two admirable accomplishments IMHO! ;) |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by stinger on 12/15/07 at 02:17:07 2002 bought it new Supertrapp, running 8 discs, K@N air filter and Greg rejetted it with a 155 main jet. Not one repair needed on my bike so far, except front brake pads. Only use 50 weight auto oil, change maybe every 1 or 2 thousand miles. Maybe $6 for 3 qts. Cheap enough it allows me to change more often if Im interstating it at high speeds on long trips and after a few days. 34, 500 miles on original cam chain and tensioner. Greg opened it up and said it didnt need changing as of yet and we closed it back up til this winter. Making a circle of the US this spring leaving from Portland Or, across Canada and back into the states somewhere on the east coast. Not sure if the original cam chain would hold up, but bike still running strong and has given no indication its going out so far. Be interesting to see if the cam chain would make the trip. Plan on having 50,000 miles by end of summer. It only had 14,500 on it when I rode across America a year and a half ago. I ride fast but not hard. I like interstates. I like to ride at 65 to 75. Its where my bike runs the smoothest and I feel the most comfortable. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by Savage_Greg on 12/15/07 at 05:49:41 3B3C21262F2D3A480 wrote:
I do believe that one is a 152.5 actually. Quote:
Yep. One clean bike that has hardly been worked on :P Quote:
Winter officially begins next week! Quote:
Do you have a lot of luck at the casinos too? See reminder above ;D Quote:
I like 2 lane and hate interstates. I actually enjoy shifting ::) |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by verslagen1 on 12/15/07 at 21:48:16 3A3D20272E2C3B490 wrote:
Hmmm... straight 50wt. oil? [smiley=huh.gif] |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by LANCER on 12/18/07 at 13:00:18 Wow, how did I miss this thread before? -Lancer -1997 -Original until this rebuild -Plunger extension measurement unknown -With about 9-10 k miles on the engine, original cam chain is right in the middle of the allowed stretch -Estimate 20k miles with current chain -no indications of excess wear -currently rebuilding engine for performance upgrades -adjuster VS1 -original used guide -new upgraded cam chain for the build -oil is syn -mod to hard riding -60fw/40 chw aggressive riding -original owner |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by vroom1776 on 12/18/07 at 15:07:54 My original cam chain, plunger, and adjusters (slides) were all replaced in 2003. I was riding nearly nonstop from coast to coast at 80 mph. The mileage then was about 13k miles. was running penzoil 10-40. The bike suddenly couldn't go over 60 mph. rode another 800 miles that way. Last spring I checked the plunger extension... year: 1997 mileage: 25k (current) old or new adjuster: ? plunger extension: 18 mm chain stretch: ?, a little loose when I pulled vertically up on the cahin when I had the head cover off last winter indications (why did you open her up): lots of miles repair action taken: welded a tab onto the plunger and drilled it (Verslavy mod) Type of Oil? mostly Penzoil 10-40 Rider type? agressive moderate newb etc? Aggressive, hard accel, but lots of constant speed (40 mph) too. Lots of engine braking. where do you ride the most :twisties/town/not much freeway anymore. Number of Previous Owners? 3; I got the bike with about 7.5k miles in 2002 |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by verslagen1 on 12/19/07 at 18:32:56 chart updated |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by Digger on 07/11/08 at 20:24:41 I plan to add to this database in about 500 miles. My bike is in my signature. How are you guys defining "plunger extension?" Can I measure chain stretch with the chain in place in the engine? I'm presuming that one should measure the chain stretch in four different places along the chain. Cheers! |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by verslagen1 on 07/11/08 at 20:37:22 Plunger extension is the distance from the housing along the plunger to the corner that transitions to the flat part. There's not enough exposed chain to measure the prescribed distance. But it might be worthwhile to measure however many are available in as many places as you can stand to do. Someone can give the distance over the number of pins you can measure. I have a chain sitting here and will do. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by BurnPgh on 07/20/08 at 23:01:10 didnt know there was a chart going on. '95 approx. 9500mi 21mm extended VS2 Inspection re-used chain, guides, and gasket on reassembly. mix of local and highway stock bike riden easy to moderately Cheapo dino 10-40 changed frequently |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by DJM on 08/19/08 at 16:14:03 2006 inspection prompted by mileage 16,900 miles 18mm extension No action taken. I am second owner. oil used unknown. PO changed oil every 1000 miles. All original chain, guides and adjuster. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by verslagen1 on 10/26/08 at 13:47:16 chart updated ;D |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by revsin on 10/27/08 at 16:29:13 Some questions that are rather noobish, but that's me in a nutshell. My bike has 24,500 miles on it now... I trust the info I've read on here over the months of my ownership that I should check the cam chain and tensioner. Some questions as I'm as novice of a mechanic as I am of a rider: I'll start with my dumbest questions first: 1) I assume I should drain the oil first? 2) If the cam chain tensioner/adjuster are extended past a safe level, do I replace just the chain? Or do I replace the tensioner/adjuster as well? 3) If replacing the tensioner/adjuster is recommended, why? What makes it wear out or requires its replacement? 4) Is there a gasket or seal that has to be replaced when inspecting the cam chain? 5) Is the cam chain something that can be replaced without removing the head? Thanks for your tolerance! |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by verslagen1 on 10/27/08 at 18:09:55 My bike has 24,500 miles on it now... I should check the cam chain and tensioner. yes, most definitely 1) I assume I should drain the oil first? don't have to but easier 2) If the cam chain tensioner/adjuster are extended past a safe level, do I replace just the chain? Or do I replace the tensioner/adjuster as well? I'd check the stretch on the chain by measuring as recomended in the manuals 3) If replacing the tensioner/adjuster is recommended, why? You only need to replace if ovaled out 4) Is there a gasket or seal that has to be replaced when inspecting the cam chain? yes clutch cover $10 5) Is the cam chain something that can be replaced without removing the head? yes but need to remove head cover |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by verslagen1 on 01/04/09 at 12:40:23 I have a '88 with 19885 miles on it. And the plunger was about 18mm out. The PO burnt the piston, so I took the chain out. Before I removed it, I marked the bottom center pin while at TDC. And I measured the chain stretch all the way around. 5.021 to 5.022 everywhere, ctc Then I measured over half the distance, 2.510 or thereabouts. Gonna have to work out a better tensioning jig before I get more accurate results though. This half measurement can be made with the primary removed and all other parts of the cam drive in place. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by ls650v on 01/19/09 at 12:32:54 Year: 1997 Miles: 21,086 Extension: 17.5 mm Indication: Inspection Repair Action: VS2 Oil: Dino, mostly 20W-50 motorcycle specific Riding Style: Moderate, mostly secondary roads or around town, some highway Owners: 2 |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by DocNeedles on 02/25/09 at 19:44:01 So I have to repair the oil cap leak and have had my bike up on a jack putting on saddle bag supports and looking at the chain tensioner. I have had clutch cover off before repairing an oil leak about 2,000 miles ago, present mileage is 15,559 miles. Previous chain tensioner seemed OK. The plunger is now about 20mm, and I don't know if the chain is stretched since I haven't got down to repair oil plug cap. ( I imagine that is where I can measure chain?) I have not had any indications, no noticeable noise. I use 10W40 motorcycle oil and change filter every other oil change. I am a moderate rider, cruise on the highway about 60 to 65mph. I am the 3rd owner bought bike at 11,000 miles. the bike is a 1986 and I am interested in getting the updated tensioner. DocNeedles |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by verslagen1 on 02/25/09 at 19:55:57 Doc, the way I see it, you got a 20 year old bike. The plastic is about to crap out on you. The critical plastic I would replace when you get a chance. That being the front and rear chain guides. One would have to ask yourself, are you going to put another 40k on the bike? If so, I'd put another chain on. After 40k, I'm putting a new one on. Not cause it's stretched, but because why take chances. I've gotten double the life out of it with my adjuster mod, why take chances? |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by DocNeedles on 02/27/09 at 11:33:56 7D6E7978676A6C6E653A0B0 wrote:
I don't believe this!! I just contacted my local Suzuki dealership to get a price on the cam chain tensioner guides. The price quoted for part # 12771-24B01 was $51.49 and part # 12811-24B00 was $87.44, while from Ron Ayers the first tensioner guide was $28.16 and the second was $53.03!!! Even with the lower Canadian $ this seems amazing since the Canadian parts are shipped from Toronto. I will have to think about this one!! DocNeedles |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by serenity3743 on 02/27/09 at 12:24:25 2000 year model bought with 600 miles on it, 1 year old. Ran it over 50,000 miles and never did anything except change oil, replace tires and brakes, replace oil seal at front pulley, and replace oil plug in head. Tore it down to rebore and rebuild, never could get it running right. Looking back it had to be the tensioner. I now have a good salvage replacement motor in it. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by verslagen1 on 02/27/09 at 17:22:20 Sorry about the priced Doc, I just looked at the cost of the clutch cover gasket, I wish I bought a hundred of the them when they were $8 a piece a year ago. Now they're $18 :o |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by verslagen1 on 02/27/09 at 18:33:54 chart updated Doc, looks like you got another 20k left in that chain. This is an estimation based on plunger extention alone. The real life can only be estimated from the chain stretch. |
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Title: My cam chain tensioner at 20,000 miles Post by Rogue_Cheddar on 02/28/09 at 16:56:00 3rd owner bought at 7800 miles. Use Amsoil 20w-50 synthetic mostly commute 35 - 50 Some highway 60-65 (had it up to 85 once until I couldn't feel my scrotum anymore.) Stock except fishtail muffler and rejet. Reason:20,000 mile inspection. No problems or other indications. Approx. 22/32" or 17.4625mm out from housing to plunger shoulder. I don't know chain stretch. Verslagen1, what do you recommend at this point? Also, how strong is that spring in the housing, I can't seem to push it in by hand. http://w4.bikepics.com/pics/2009/02/28/bikepics-1585881-full.jpg http://w4.bikepics.com/pics/2009/02/28/bikepics-1585884-full.jpg |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by verslagen1 on 03/01/09 at 23:21:59 Hmmm, thought I answered, must have gotten up there. ;D I have no regrets having done what I've done. I put in a verslavy at 22k, I'm now at 40k. I'm figuring that's the life of the chain. That worked well for my mostly stock bike. And I also put in a new rear guide. Now if you're down for a month or 2, I'd get it modified for the 2 hole. Either me or someone else. Do you have insurance on your bike? betcha you don't have insurance on your engine. The plunger falling out of the adjuster can be the most singlely devestating event your bike will ever know. Yet only a handfull have installed my verslagen1 adjuster. I've pinned the plunger to the housing to prevent this. Now if I can get my ginnea pig over here, I be able to hear this for myself. Instead of the plunger falling out, the chain rattles. Giving you a clear indication... knock knock knock hey! time for maitenance idiot! ::) wake up call. That spring is not that strong, what you're pushing against is a racket and pawl. reach underneath, push the little lever in and you'll be able to push the plunger in. ;D |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by DocNeedles on 03/02/09 at 13:33:08 382B3C3D222F292B207F4E0 wrote:
On thinking it over I am going to purchase the chain tensioner guides now from the US and replace the chain at 20,000 miles if when I measure it it is within reason. I have ordered from you the chain tensioner guide and will replace that while I have the clutch casing off. Just hope the weather here is going to keep rainy while I have the bike down. DocNeedles |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by Digger on 06/30/09 at 20:35:01 796A7D7C636E686A613E0F0 wrote:
Ver, How are you estimating chain life based on plunger extension alone? i.e., what are your assumptions? TIA! |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by Digger on 06/30/09 at 20:53:29 Ver, One more question (sorry!): I'm the lazy type. I'd like to measure the wear in my cam chain, but I don't want to remove anything out of the ordinary to do it. I'll be removing the head cover to torque the head bolts soon. Can I measure cam chain stretch where the chain will be exposed adjacent to the camshaft? TIA! |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by verslagen1 on 06/30/09 at 23:23:17 59747A7A786F1D0 wrote:
In doc's case, it's an estimate from a similar case. "I'll be removing the head cover to torque the head bolts soon. Can I measure cam chain stretch where the chain will be exposed adjacent to the camshaft?" Only half the required length is exposed, but you can count out 11 pins and measure that if you're accurate. i.e. use a caliper not a yard stick. Then just half the requirement. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by KenGLong on 07/01/09 at 06:09:08 Just one more data point. I'm (finally) replacing the cam chain, adjuster and guides in my 2002. I bought the bike with about 12k and it has a bit over 22k now. I think I'm the second owner but not sure. I've always used dino oil and have no idea what the PO did. The old chain measures 127.6mm as per the SSM (128.9 is the service limit). I'll be installing a verslavy adjuster. (Verslagen: I'll be sending you my old adjuster. It was out pretty far when I disassembled but I'm not sure if the plunger had beveled out the opening yet. If you can re-use it, great.) |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by verslagen1 on 07/01/09 at 06:35:11 Great Ken, I need those spares. If nothing else I can get ahead on plungers, as they take the most time. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by Digger on 07/09/09 at 20:57:24 Here are my data: Year: 2001 Mileage: 10,100 miles Old or new adjuster: The original adjuster was in there when I first opened it up. I replaced it with a Verslavy 2-holer. The original adjuster that was in the bike was the new-style adjuster, not the old-style adjuster. Plunger extension: 14.5 mm Chain stretch: Not inspected Indications: None. I opened it up to inspect the adjuster. Repair action: There was no damage. I replaced the adjuster with a Verslavy Type of Oil: Dino (Mobil Clean 5000, 10W-40) Rider Type: Conservative to Moderate Where do you ride the most: Around town exclusively, with short spurts on the freeway or other fast roads around town Number of previous owners: I bought the bike from the original owner when it had 50 miles on it. So, for all intents and purposes, I'm the original owner. Both tensioner guides looked fine, as far as I could tell, I left them in there. Both were original. I set the Verslavy to the first hole, I could not quite reach the second hole yet. There is about 3.5 mm of pin travel before the pin reaches the edge of the adjuster body cut-out. I left the original cam chain in there. Ver, if you need any more info, plz let me know! Here is what the old adjuster looked like when I removed the clutch cover: http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/OEMCamChainTensionerE.jpg 14.5 mm of plunger extension. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by PTRider on 07/10/09 at 08:51:46 755856565443310 wrote:
I suggest you consider using a more robust oil for reduced wear of your engine parts. If you're in moderate summer temperatures and don't have a lot of idling or very slow running with poor airflow over the engine, among 40 wt oils are: Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 (http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/NAUSE2CVLMOMobil_Delvac_1300_Super.asp) Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 (http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/NAXXENCVLMOMobil_Delvac_1_5W-40.asp) Mobil 1 Motorcycle 10W-40 (http://mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil1_Racing_4T_10W-40.aspx) If you do ride in very hot conditions, consider a 50 wt: Mobil 1 Motorcycle 20W-50 (http://mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_V-Twin_20W-50.aspx) I listed Mobil's oils because that's what you are presently using; all major brands are just about equally good. I don't like any automotive 10W-40. Among "racing" oils we must be sure the oil is labeled for motorcycles, and Mobil's are proscribed for wet clutches. Dual-rated diesel & gasoline engine oils are widely used in motorcycles with good results. While ExxonMobil's line up is as good as any, my current preference is the new 15W-40 from Conoco/Phillips/76/Kendall with their "Liquid Titanium (http://www.jobbersworld.com/november%2018%202008.htm)" additive which does seem to be something new and useful. The oil is probably only available in gallon jugs from truck supply stores and truck stops. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by verslagen1 on 07/10/09 at 09:14:38 153836363423510 wrote:
I'm guessing that newer bikes are shipping with 9 or 10 mm plunger extention. The 1st couple of mm's of wear will be fast due to high spot removal on the guides. Leaving around 3 mm of wear for the 1st 10k miles. Not bad. You'll be switching to the second hole around 20k miles. Dino or syn, that's good mileage. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by Digger on 07/10/09 at 10:46:00 203324253A3731333867560 wrote:
I'm guessing that newer bikes are shipping with 9 or 10 mm plunger extention. The 1st couple of mm's of wear will be fast due to high spot removal on the guides. Leaving around 3 mm of wear for the 1st 10k miles. Not bad. You'll be switching to the second hole around 20k miles. Dino or syn, that's good mileage.[/quote] Ver, I forgot to mention that I was quite impressed with the quality of the Verslavy adjuster....nice work! Thanks again for making these available. Question: About how much pin travel do you figure I will have left on the first hole when I'm first able to switch to the second hole (I've currently got 3.5 mm of pin travel left on the first hole and could not make the second hole work yet)? TIA! |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by verslagen1 on 07/10/09 at 11:42:38 002D23232136440 wrote:
Thanks Answer... don't worry about it. You have the worry free version. When the plunger hits the end of travel it will stop and your chain will begin to rattle. A loose chain isn't a problem. It will take tens of thousands of miles to wear the guides to the point that the chain will jump. If you look at the FSSNOC site, there's a thumper that they replace the auto cam chain adjuster with a manual one, externally accessable. Adjustment procedure is to take it up tight and back off a little. They advise this to get the max mileage out of the chain. So having the chain a little loose for awhile should not be an issue. I wouldn't change it untill it hits end of travel because it will increase spring tension which causes acceleration wear. You'll note that one of the things that was changed with the latest adjuster is increased spring tension. And we are experiencing accelerated wear over the old style spring. Some feel it's low quality chains, others it's the oil. All contribute. To answer your question directly, about 10k miles. Also note that in the adjuster check post, I recommend checking every 5k miles. If you record the plunger extention at these inspection points, you'll be able to calculate when it will hit the end of travel. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by verslagen1 on 03/17/10 at 22:29:59 the chart on page 1 is now updated. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by jabman on 03/18/10 at 00:56:59 1993 12.5k miles old 18mm did not check chain noisy sound replaced rear guide synth moderate ride everywhere 11 previous owners :o (yer i kno) |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by mark_k on 04/03/10 at 13:07:30 Verslagen Here's My data if we are still tracking: Year: 2002 Mileage: 9,643 miles Old or new adjuster: Original adjuster (probably new style) just got replaced with a Verslavy with extended tab. Plunger extension: 16 mm Chain stretch: Didn't remove Indications: Some Noise - Opened it up to inspect the adjuster. Repair action: No damage. I replaced the adjuster with a Verslavy Type of Oil: Synthetic after breakin Rider Type: Moderate Where do you ride the most: 50/50 mix of town and superslab. Number of previous owners: 1st PO had it for 1500 miles. Tensioner guides original and looked good. Installed Verslavy to the second hole, fit fine without forcing the tensioner. If we are starting with about 9 mm extension from the factory, then it looks like we get ( on the safe side) approx 1200 - 1500 miles per mm of plunger. Does that sound about what everyone else is getting? |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by Digger on 05/31/10 at 21:52:34 7E726178787D7C6363130 wrote:
I had 14.5 mm of extension with 10,100 miles showing on the clock. That comes to just over 1800 miles/mm. Two questions: 1. Where did the "9 mm from the factory" figure come from? 2. Is linear wear over the miles a valid assumption? TIA! :) |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by verslagen1 on 05/31/10 at 22:26:21 My current thinking is large amount of wear is caused by over tensioning during the thermal cycle. The pawl will click over during the hottest (or coldest) part of the cycle, when it cools down (or heats up) wear will occur until it's at a medium tension. So, regardless of the tensioner tension wear will occur nearly linear through the miles. 6 to 9mm is my guess how it comes from the factory. When I did the 1st conversion, it was 9mm out. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by verslagen1 on 06/22/10 at 21:16:37 chart updated, thanks for the info guys. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by verslagen1 on 11/14/10 at 07:28:23 We have 2 high mileage champs, one with a 2002 (35k miles) and another with a 2000 (50k miles). Based on discussions, I think thermal cycling is responsible for accelerated wear then oil. If you can, review your chart data and give me an estimate of your average trip length. And I'd count a trip with many short stops as one trip if you get back on it before if cools off. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by Digger on 11/16/10 at 21:47:09 514255544B4640424916270 wrote:
Hi Ver, Mine is an urban warrior. Average trip length is 10 miles. I ride year 'round here in Colorado Springs, so sometimes I'm sure the engine never gets fully warm when I take it out for just a short hop. Also, for my chart data, the indication was None and I use 10W40 motor oil. IHTH! |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by ralfyguy on 11/18/10 at 04:48:15 My trip to work is about a little over a mile each way. I ride year around also. Mine is an '06 with 14,000 miles. Modified plunger done at 11,000. I bought the bike at 3,000 miles and the adjuster was out 17mm already. At 11,000 it was at 20.5mm, so I put Verslagen's modified plunger in. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by buttgoat1 on 11/18/10 at 09:33:59 hmmmm, we have always been told that most wear occurred at startup, and figuring in the heat cycle as a tangent off of that. Your theory does make sense. That being said, most of my trips were 25+ to work with a good bit of miles put on just beating around. 100 or 2 in a day stopping, but never really letting it cool down much. The PO had a much longer commute to work (50+) if I recall correctly, for the first 4500 miles or so. That seems counter to the amount of stretch on Betties chain. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by BurnPgh on 11/19/10 at 20:42:56 quick acceleration definatively plays a role. I havent accually measured yet, but when replacing my clutch plates i took note that my essentally brand new chain (about 3k mi) was signifcantly "stretched". Id say 14-15mm out from an unused measurement of 8 or 9. Those 3k mi followed my performance mods and needless to say I gun it quite a bit...as in pretty much always. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by running-it-stock on 06/26/13 at 22:51:18 2007 11,7xx mi new adjuster 17.02mm chain stretch don' know? concerned before long trip/ self assurance nothing since 5k mi -mobil 1 Full Syn. 10w-40. Changed to Rotella @10k mi Rider type- gentle where do you ride the most -freeways Number of Previous Owners? 1 |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by SALB on 07/15/13 at 12:06:25 Replace tensioner with verslavy this weekend. 2007 10800 miles tensioner at 17mm did not measure chain, sliders seemed good checked for peace of mind, and it was due by mileage installed is second hole oil - delo dino 15/40 moderate to aggressive rider local and highway 2nd owner??? |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by keith on 07/15/13 at 18:29:23 2007 12152 Original just about out of the bore. Opened it because of hearing the problem with it here. atleast 3 other owners. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by running-it-stock on 10/26/14 at 19:12:39 3F3D38243126540 wrote:
Finally got around to changing the cam chain tensioner with verslagan mod. 13216 mi (got a burgman so didn't ride much the last couple years) 18.02 mm Picture below. http://i60.tinypic.com/ay2bmx.jpg |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by Wake51 on 08/08/16 at 10:00:29 2001 14,5XX Miles (2nd Owner Since 5,0XX Miles) 17.5mm Extension, Intend to Install Verslavvy once available Stock Adjuster Oil: Rotella T Since Acquired Riding: Short Commutes During College Years (5-10 mi) Otherwise Lettered Highway and Interstate on 10+ mi trips (65-75mph) Aggressiveness: Moderate while ringing it out every few rides My ride seems to be on the mark for reinforcing inspecting the tensioner at 15k, I inspected at 14.5k and I'm sitting .5k short of the recommended 18 mm limit. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/08/16 at 10:49:15 332437222423243728450 wrote:
WEAR, at start-up is attributed to oil pressure Not being there to protect rotating and sliding parts. The chain gets tensioned when the cylinder gets taller from heat. If your tensioner just grabbed a tooth on the ratchet then when the cylinder gets hot and grows afew thousandths of an inch it pulls hard on the chain. That's why the new modification of the added spring that lets the entire tensioner assembly scoot away from the crankshaft a bit helps. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by cheapnewb24 on 08/08/16 at 22:30:03 I just checked mine today, and it's between 18 and 19.5 mm out, and I have 18k or so. I'll post some pictures in the morning. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by Martin K on 09/22/18 at 18:20:51 I know it's been a while since any updates on here, but I figured I'd add my 2 cents. 1995 22K miles (probably more, speedo cable was gone when I bought it) Tensioner at 18mm, seems to be stock Chain & Sliders are in good shape Unsure of oil type or riding style. I don't know the previous owner, got the bike through my usual mechanic. Figured I'd check it out while the bike was apart, rather than be surprised a few thousand miles from now. Martin K |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by IslandRoad on 12/20/18 at 01:32:38 Year: 2015 Mileage: 16,659 Old or new adjuster: Original Plunger extension: 14.5mm Chain stretch: Didn't check Indications: No indicators - checked the tensioner during oil and filter change Repair action taken (what did you replace): Oil and filter Type of Oil? I was using a Motorex synthetic bike oil. I ran the oil low (it took 400mm to top it up) because I skipped a couple of services - long story. I am now using a Penrite product MC-4ST 10W-40 (100% PAO & ESTER) Rider type: I accelerate hard and then cruise at the speed limit. Where do you ride the most: Mixed; local jaunts, twisties, and highway. I ran the bike hard while re-jetting - testing acceleration, top speed etc. Number of Previous Owners? 2; I bought the bike with 1500 kms on it. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by batman on 12/23/18 at 19:54:23 1995 19,000 to tensioner extension 35,xxx at present old 19 127.6 60,000(2mm extension from 19,000 to 35,000) orig self-vs type extension,pawl spring removed to stop chain stretch orig cam chain dino oil 15w-40 aggr -all- but less city riding 0 drive train stock except 130/90/15 tire, tuned intake, tuned carb, and Dyna muffler. top speed 90mph. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/23/18 at 20:18:38 Batman, that's like playing Pick up Sticks with boiled spaghetti. Fukktup as a soup sandwich. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by batman on 12/24/18 at 08:21:11 JOG, Eminent disaster, using the tensioner as a spring shock, was predicted by many , I have been waiting about 4 years and 16,000 miles for that to occur(I 'm not holding my breath at this time). |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/24/18 at 10:07:45 Oh, I know your setup works. I was just commenting on what it felt like reading that post. I'm absolutely thrilled someone decided to just see what happens without the pawl. I don't see why the chain wouldn't go fifty thousand miles or more now. I still think a spring in the mount end of the tensioner, using a slightly oblong hole, would keep a warming up engine from stretching the chain, but yanking your pawl is so much easier. |
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Title: Re: Cam Chain Adjuster Life Post by batman on 12/24/18 at 23:07:31 JOG , That's an idea that is a very difficult /if not impossible challenge. If the spring is to soft it goes hard ,if it is to strong it doesn't move ,either way it doesn't work .The fact that you need to work with two very different size springs, and trying to find a perfect working balance between them, doesn't help matters. Even if you found springs with the nearly the same tension , they won't be for long as the chain stretches under normal wear ,or even if it doesn't, what have you gained? Nothing. I think the whole idea may be flawed. What I did may not be ideal,the spring may suffer over time (weaken) ,but if it does ,it should give some notice ( valve or chain noise). |
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