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Message started by greenft on 09/14/07 at 08:12:32

Title: Improved Running
Post by greenft on 09/14/07 at 08:12:32

Hi All, 2004, all stock. After new plug, clean carb twice, change oil and filter, adjust valves still ran like crap at low speed range. Okay at higher RPM. New pilot jet, 55. better but not good. Pulled plug to adjust idle jet. It was turned in all the way. Took a bit of force to back it out. Set it at 1 1/2 out. Better but still sluggish on smooth acceleration from low speeds. Took out the doughnut thingy on the needle and replaced with a shim/washer 2/3 thickness of original doughnut thingy. Runs perfect now. My thanks to all who post on this board. Probably would not have done the doughnut thingy. By the way, the plug over the idle jet is the same diameter as the doughnut thingy. When you drill the hole to use a sheet metal screw to remove the plug use a bit the same diameter as the needle. Just luck that I did. Again thanks to this board.

Greenft

Title: Re: Improved Running
Post by LANCER on 09/14/07 at 08:56:03

An excellent start dude, well done.

Title: Re: Improved Running
Post by islandwahine on 09/14/07 at 10:12:27

greenft wrote:

By the way, the plug over the idle jet is the same diameter as the doughnut thingy. When you drill the hole to use a sheet metal screw to remove the plug use a bit the same diameter as the needle. Just luck that I did. Again thanks to this board.

Greenft

Are you telling me the only way to get the plug out is by drilling? OY!
I hadn't heard about having to do that, I'm dangerous with a drill!

Title: Re: Improved Running
Post by bill67 on 09/14/07 at 10:56:31

drill a small hold then screw in a sheet metal screw the n pull the screw out with a pliers

Title: Re: Improved Running
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/14/07 at 11:29:11

Once the drill has gone deep enough to have the oputside edge below the surface, decrease the pressure, also, if you will wrap the bit with a few layers of tape, it will stop the drillbit from slamming thru & wrecking the pilot screw( brass) behind the plug

Title: Re: Improved Running
Post by thumperclone on 09/14/07 at 17:05:26

islandwahine wrote:

Are you telling me the only way to get the plug out is by drilling? OY!
I hadn't heard about having to do that, I'm dangerous with a drill!

you DONT have to drill..small framing screw for metal studs/track is what i used they have a phillips head on them screw driver in easy 1-2 1/4 turns till it grabs(not TOO far or you hit the pilot head) or the plug spins(easier on newer bikes)pull out by gripping screw head with good pliers/vice grips... home despot has them but you have to buy 1000 at a time!!!some hardware stores have them by the piece..

Title: Re: Improved Running
Post by islandwahine on 09/14/07 at 19:38:28

Thanks! what a relief!
I'm pretty triggerhappy with drills, which most of the time is what you need (especially with carpentry). I'm glad to know it's only the pilot that I will hit if I go too far, I'm putting in a new one anyway. Think I'll go see if Lancer got them in yet!

Title: Re: Improved Running
Post by SteveRocket on 09/14/07 at 20:08:10

"I'm glad to know it's only the pilot that I will hit if I go too far, I'm putting in a new one anyway. "
I believe you are getting the pilot jet which is inside the carb and pilot mixture screw which is hidden behind the plug mixed up. Those who know more may correct me but I am pretty sure they are two different things in two different places
Steve

Title: Re: Improved Running
Post by LANCER on 09/14/07 at 21:20:25

islandwahine wrote:

Just got em this afternoon...will go out tomorrow morning

Title: Re: Improved Running
Post by islandwahine on 09/14/07 at 22:44:13

SteveRocket wrote:

Now you tell me!
I wonder if I might need to replace that one too??

Title: Re: Improved Running
Post by islandwahine on 09/14/07 at 22:45:35

LANCER wrote:

Just got em this afternoon...will go out tomorrow morning

HI Lancer, say are there two different pilot thingies in the jet set?
SteveRocket just mentioned there might be another one in there.

Title: Re: Improved Running
Post by LANCER on 09/15/07 at 05:22:01

I put in 1 pilot and 3 mains

#55 pilot jet
#150, 152.5, 155 main jets

Title: Re: Improved Running
Post by Dr_Jim on 09/15/07 at 08:03:31

Title: Re: Improved Running
Post by skrapiron on 09/15/07 at 08:07:48

I had my Savage dialed in very well, doing the same mods you did.

After I installed my K&N cone filter, all I had to do was raise my needle valve a bit more.

It's running better than ever!

Title: Re: Improved Running
Post by Max_Morley on 09/15/07 at 10:36:21

Max says, I hate to rain on the parade, but, I believe the idle mixture screw, AKA pilot air screw, controls primarily fuel + or - rather than air although there is usually some air bubbles in the mixture at this point. When you turn it in(clockwise) it decreases the fuel in the idle A/F mixture to the point many engines die for lack of fuel. When you turn it out (CCW) the engine runs richer (more fuel than air for correct operation) and the engine gets an uneven idle and usually some black exhaust. There has been units that use the air for idle adjustment, but as the A/F ratio by volume is very large that passage and tapered adjustment screw has to be very large to be effective. From the retired auto shop teacher.

Title: Re: Improved Running
Post by Hell, Billy on 09/15/07 at 10:56:30

Ahhh, here we go again w/ the pilot screw thing...I`m gonna get out some carb lit and check myself. I respectfully suggest when we do actually agree/determine which kinda pilot screw it is, we then carve it in stone somewhere in the tech section.

I thought counterclockwise was `richen' but now I just gotta know fo` sure, wild things.......

Bill

Title: Re: Improved Running
Post by serowbot on 09/15/07 at 11:02:24

CCW is richer, allow more gas to be pulled up by engine vacuum. CW closes the passage, restricting gas flow.

On some carbs the air/fuel mix screw does adjust air, not this one, it adjusts fuel.

Title: Re: Improved Running
Post by Hell, Billy on 09/15/07 at 11:05:55

Ayer`s fische lists the screw as an AIR screw......

B

Title: Re: Improved Running
Post by serowbot on 09/15/07 at 11:07:57

What they call, and what it does, are not the same thing. Crazy huh!

Title: Re: Improved Running
Post by islandwahine on 09/15/07 at 11:19:43

Dr_Jim wrote:

Island -

I'd be tempted to do the main jet and white spacer modification, then uncap the pilot air screw and see how well the bike performs before installing the pilot jet.

Jim

Aloha Jim,
What do you mean uncap the pilot jet?
If you are talking about taking the cap that hides it off so you can turn the screw behind it, that has been done.
I even tried to follow lancers carb instructions...to no avail there was absolutely no difference.
I even removed the float bowl and checked out the main jet and pilot jet. The main is fine, the pilot I couldn't get out because the flathead notch was pretty shredded. Whoever messed with the carb before damaged it.
So that's why I'm overhauling the carb.

Title: Re: Improved Running
Post by Dr_Jim on 09/15/07 at 13:44:39

Title: Re: Improved Running
Post by rokrover on 09/15/07 at 14:19:17

Really interesting, Dr_Jim. Perhaps that's why this screw doesn't have the usual idle-speed sensitivity when turned. When the idle screw is indeed an air adjustment then a half turn either side of optimum gives a noticeable drop in idle speed. Not so on my LS650 - a full turn either side of 2 out has little noticeable effect. So I just leave it at 2 out. Also did the white spacer mod today; shaved down from 2.85mm to 1.85mm with a carbide wheel on my hand dremel tool (a fine mini machine shop). Hard part was holding the spacer normal to the wheel so it wasn't ground down at an angle. Now the stumble off idle when cold is completely gone.

Title: Re: Improved Running
Post by Hell, Billy on 09/15/07 at 14:56:29

Some fun.

According to; Chilton`s Motorcycle and ATV Repair Manual, 1945-85 [Greg you need this book it`s the Bible of old bike books, alas, no LS650s, but almost everything else, inc most excellent general info & an amazing troubleshooting section -2 copies on Amazon for $20-move quick];

pilot air screws are on the intake side and pilot fuel screws are between the slide and the manifold.....fuel screws turn OUT[CCW] for enrichening.

And Doc you are correct about the mix -up [ha ha can`t help myself sometimes], yes it is confusing ....so are we all in agreement?

CCW= RICH.......CW=LEAN

I`ll chisel it, if you hold the granite.

B

ps, it`s easier to thin that spacer by loosely placing a blunt pencil [anything with a bit of taper will do] in the hole and rubbing it in circles on a sheet of sandpaper on something flat, hold the pencil like you were writing and check frequently, it rubs thin fast.

Title: Re: Improved Running
Post by islandwahine on 09/15/07 at 18:16:00

rokrover wrote:

I think I'm gonna take the easy way out and do what greenft did:

Quote:

Took out the doughnut thingy on the needle and replaced with a shim/washer 2/3 thickness of original doughnut thingy.

Title: Re: Improved Running
Post by islandwahine on 09/15/07 at 18:17:40

I sure hope Clymer's refers to the Mikune carb, otherwise I'm gonna be in trouble reassembling the darn thing!