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Message started by Oldfeller2 on 05/18/07 at 10:09:02

Title: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 05/18/07 at 10:09:02

http://photos.gunloads.com/images/Oldfeller/stackedtires.jpg

First off -- this is a theoretical discussion with some silly-assed pictures.  Nobody is actually going to go do anything stupid here, so you don't need to go get all irate about it.  

Nobody is going to do anything with these pictures, it is for a theoretical discussion of alignments and 3-D spacing thoughts on putting 10 impossible pounds of tire into a 5 pound fender space while trying to dodge a 1" wide drive belt that wants to be right in there too.

So don't get bent -- it isn't for real and certainly isn't for serious anyway.  That there big 'ol thang ain't a gonna fit in the fenderwell, so ferget about thinking it's serious.

It is good discussion food for the cafe though, but only after drinking a six pack or two to lubricate your thinker a bit (yeah, lots and lots of good 'ol Budwiser tire lube would be needed for this one).  

So, let that be a requirement -- you have to have belted down at least two tall ones before thinking on it.  And you need to have 6 tall ones under your belt before typing your helpful comments.

And if you start to act all serious about it, we'll hoot at you.  Remember, it is over an inch too wide to go in, so don't be a' going there because it sure AIN'T.

And, if that weren't bad enough, it is a half inch too tall to boot.

The thing on the bottom is a $35 Nankang full-sized 165-15 steel belted radial tire intended for a VW Beetle -- 25.5" in diameter and 6.25" inches wide at the fat spot (which is right were the tread lead in edge starts).

The thing on top is a Dunlop CruiseMax 140/90r15 rear tire, cost about $110 retail and measures 5.00" wide at the fat spot and 25.15" tall at the tippy top of the crown.

One is good for 5,000 miles, the other has a 30,000 mile warranty (but likely will only make 2/3 of it in the real world).

<hee hee>

Drink up boys, what'cha think?

Oldfeller


Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Savage_Rob on 05/18/07 at 10:37:52

Now why would you want to put those Dunlops on a VW?

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 05/18/07 at 11:18:02

I dunno, it sounded like a good idea at the time?  

Wife got pissed off at me though, her new Dunnie front tires made her whole beetle lean over to the side when she was a' going round a turn and then the durn things WORE COMPLETELY OUT over just the nice summer months (they were all bald in the middle by winter time -- didn't do very good over the ice at all like that).

Heck, maybe it wasn't such a good idea after all.  

I shoulda stuck with the VW tires, them things went good through all sorts of weather and they lasted and lasted and lasted.

Oldfeller

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by verslagen1 on 05/18/07 at 11:24:14

What's the depth of tread?

Does that VW have the 5 bolt pattern of the 4?

Why is that dumlap staring at me?   ;D

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by skatnbnc on 05/18/07 at 11:32:56

Well if we jack the back up with a coupla washers under the seat, push the fender open with some scrap lumber, and add the cat to the sissy bar, I think it could work.

Mind you, we'd have to add mudflaps cause them treads is gonna throw some dirt, and that is going to piss off the cat.
:)

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Savage_Rob on 05/18/07 at 12:14:33

Remove the rear fender and mount the seat on the tank.  Convert to chain too, so the sprocket takes up less space.

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by sluggo on 05/18/07 at 12:53:48

drinkin and thinkn  isn't that kinda like, military intelligence, jumbo shrimp, humane ethunasia.

hey putting the m/c tyre on the vw.   that's a thought.

this after a few hours by the dumpster.

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by PerrydaSavage on 05/18/07 at 12:54:08

Over at intruderalert.com there's a few fellows running car tires (They call 'em "Darkside" tires) similar to that Nanking on the arse end of their Intruder 1500's, Valkeries and the like ... swear by 'em too, eventhough it's kinda frowned upon to wack a car tire on the back of a Bike ...

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Savage_Rob on 05/18/07 at 13:08:29


PerrydaSavage wrote:
Over at intruderalert.com there's a few fellows running car tires (They call 'em "Darkside" tires) similar to that Nanking on the arse end of their Intruder 1500's, Valkeries and the like ... swear by 'em too, eventhough it's kinda frowned upon to wack a car tire on the back of a Bike ...

At the risk of having too sober a thought, I'd think that's because cage tires aren't intended to operate at a lean.  Contact patch is flat only - no sidewall action wanted.

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 05/18/07 at 19:23:07

Didn't you ever watch Herbie the Luv Bug?  Heck fire, he could get up on the sides of his tires, pop wheelies and everythang a stunt bike can do now-a-days.

Besides, didn't you oggle at that there ChungFooie tire real good?  It has fine detailed tread thingies blending right up over the rounded edge of thangs and down to the very fattest part of the tire.  It has tread that goes all the way over the edge and down the sides, just like the Durnloop does.  As a s'matter of fact, it's tread ends exactly where the Dunloop laying on top of it ends, they match up exactly.

'Sides, I never lean my bike over any -- my goodness, I'd fall off.

Oldfeller

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 05/18/07 at 20:19:04

Ah, them top of the line Chungfooie tires come standard with a wei-shung good luck spirit (odd looking thing with them flame yellow eyes you see peeking over the top of things in the picture).  

Used to sell a brand of fire crackers that came with the same sorta thing, supposed to keep the underaged kiddies from blowing their little bitty fingers off.

Must'a worked even back then, I still got all my fingers.

How about you?

<grin>

Oldfeller

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by verslagen1 on 05/18/07 at 20:39:36

Well I don't think the 5 bolt Vdub tire will bolt to the savage hub, the pattern is just too wide.  But I think we can get the 4 bolt pattern on.   ;D

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Greg_650 on 05/18/07 at 21:30:45


sluggo wrote:
drinkin and thinkn  isn't that kinda like, military intelligence, jumbo shrimp, humane ethunasia.

hey putting the m/c tyre on the vw.   that's a thought.

this after a few hours by the dumpster.

I KNEW IT!
:D

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Greg_650 on 05/18/07 at 21:33:10

This late on Friday night, I definitely fit the requirements for this topic, but now I can't remember what it was.

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by WD on 05/18/07 at 22:41:00

I can make the car tire fit. Wonder where my wife hid the belt sander this time?  ;D
-WD

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 05/19/07 at 06:27:47

Synopsis of the Cafe crowd so far

Hell, we can do her!  Jack the fender up, bend her open some wid a pair of 2x4's, do a chain drive conversion and make up any remaining distance with a beltsander on the tire.

(might piss off the wie-shung guardian spirit cat-thing a might on that last one.  Pissing off things that keep razor blades on their toes and that shoot yellow fire out of their eyes might not be such a good idea.  Maybe if we give it a bowl of cream and politely explain we are respectfully increasing the cornering radius to save the lives of small dragons everywhere it might be merciful to us.  I sure don't want it riding around on my pillion seat all pissed off at me!)

:D

Oldfeller

PS -- this was really 'way too easy, you didn't even have to think about it very much to tell me how to go about doing it.  Now that somebody said "chain drive conversion" there is apparently a lot of extra room to play with as the chain takes up a lot less room than the belt and pullies did.  

Now I gotta go find a bigger tire to keep things interesting.  Sluggo and the bobber crew deserve nothing less than the very best efforts out of you guys.

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by thumperclone on 05/19/07 at 13:08:56

ANY beer BUT bud...

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 05/20/07 at 08:12:44

Hey, I got told off-line that I was an idjit and didn't know much about the history of VW tires.  Original VW tire fit on a wire spoked rim that they got from (get a load of this) the BMW sidecar works.  Man said he could prove it -- just go look at the bead structure of a motorcycle tire and a VW tire.

Now I don't know nuthin about internal bead structures but I sure can measure with a tape measure, cut paper templates and take out of focus pictures.

Motorcycle tire (Dunlop)
http://photos.gunloads.com/images/Oldfeller/dunlop.jpg


VW tire (Nankang)
http://photos.gunloads.com/images/Oldfeller/nankang.jpg

The tape says 15 inches right at the start of the bead curve on both tires.  I can't vouch for the origin story, but I can say there isn't any apparent or significant difference in the bead distance or bead shape between a motorcycle tire and a VW tire.  They smell very much the same-same.

Oldfeller


Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Roadie on 05/20/07 at 11:45:43

You know I always wondered hacks don't use car tires most of the time (some larger ones use car tires from what I can tell)...  Why is that?   I mean, not like a side car rig leans right?  I've never ridden one, so maybe someone can enlighten me on that.  If you never lean, why do you need motorcycle tires?

If you go with that theory then if you only run on the interstate, why not just put car tires on a regular cycle?

Or hows this to twist your noodle, there was a savage rigged a bit back on e-bay with tri-cycle wheels..  So why not just convert it over to car tires.  That "trike" ain't gonna lean.  Save money on tires to boot and they'd last years!

- Roadie.

BTW: Scary comp in the pics above.  Probably true!



Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 05/20/07 at 13:00:00

Darksiders "say" they use the bottom flat surface of the tire when going around a turn, that the sidewall of the tire flexes to allow the majority of the flat part of the tire to still remain engaged to the road.  

They also claim to run air pressures in the range of 17-25 pounds of pressure as the weight of the back half of the bike is so very very low compared to the load and pressure ratings that the wider car tire was intended to carry.

Me and the bike's weight, divided by two tires is about 300 pounds total load per tire.  The Nankung is rated for 1,201 lbs load at 35 pounds of MAX PRESSURE.  Playing the math factor game, the tire would carry the needed 300 lb. load all the way down to 10 pounds of air pressure, so I guess what the darksiders are doing is kosher as far as being well inside the air pressure / load rating range.  

Remember, it's the air pressure that carries the load, not the rubber itself.  The rubber just contains the air pressure and gives a friction surface for the drive and braking forces to act through.

Dunlop's rounded half circle (sideways oval) contact patch is small compared to the contact area available on the VW tire.  (1-2" wide vs 5" wide)   Even if only half the VW tire's width remained engaged on a real steep turn it would still have more contact patch area than a motorcycle tire would.  Since the VW tire will be running softer (lower pressure) the length of the car tire's contact patch would likely be longer too.

Dunlop has a very hard tire carcass, you can't make it give any with hand pressure at all.  On the VW car tire your hand and arm pressure applied to the tire at a 45% angle makes a "conformed" contact patch that is 4" long and about 3.5 inches wide.   The Dunlop's "conformed" contact patch is like 1-2 inches either direction no matter how hard you push with your hands and arms.  This small contact patch is why the Dunlop rubber must be so bubble gum soft -- to get the needed grip in such a small contact area.

It's nearly 4:00 Sunday afternoon -- time to start drinking again.

Oldfeller


Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by PerrydaSavage on 05/20/07 at 14:07:10

Alright!! ... it's 6:30pm NST here (5:00pm EST) and I've already got a couple of Faxe 10% Danish brewskis in (Holiday weekend here in Kanuckistan ... toast to the Queen!) ... been following the Darkside Tire saga on Intruderalert.com for awhile now and find it very interesting ... some of the earliest Bobbers used car tires on the rear ... and as I said, some Alerters swear by 'em ...
If any intrepid Savagers decide to experiment with the Darkside ... please document your experiences for all here!

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 05/21/07 at 04:18:28

Ah, don't be silly.  Us motorcycle riders are the most conservative people on the planet -- we believe in tradition and doing things the right way.  

Nobody is ever going to convince us that that darksider stuff can work, them thangs is FLAT on the bottom and righteous motorcycle tires are properly rounded, just like 'ol Mother Earth.

This here is just for a funny, not for serious.  Besides, we done been tolt them different shaped beads would pop off in the middle of a turn and KILL us daid.  Me, I don't wanna be daid.

Besides, it's too big -- ain't a gonna fit in the fenderwell any nohow.

Besides, it's work changing motorcycle tires -- I'd rather be drinking than sweating.

Oldfeller


Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Greg_650 on 05/22/07 at 08:06:46


Oldfeller2 wrote:
-- I'd rather be drinking than sweating.

Oldfeller

Yeah, but if I'm sweatin', I'd rather be drinkin' ;D


Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by verslagen1 on 05/22/07 at 09:02:04

Just think of all the sweat you'd be saving if you went to the darkside... got a flat? any gas station can fix you up with a new Vdub tire.  You could probably get on of them solid mag's from a junk yard with big dent in it.  Part off the rim and bolt on a car rim.

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Phelonius on 05/22/07 at 14:26:55

I been thinking of an automotive tire for mine when it comes time to change. I don't lean that much in the corners anyway, unless I'm flying the chair.

Phelonius

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Greg_650 on 05/22/07 at 14:48:30


Phelonius wrote:
I been thinking of an automotive tire for mine when it comes time to change. I don't lean that much in the corners anyway, unless I'm flying the chair.

Phelonius

Oh, but you just gotta imagine how the handling works when you get the bike up on that "square" edge when you lean even a little bit.  Yeehaw.


Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 05/22/07 at 15:00:28

Yeah, I kinda wonder what strange sounding "bump steer" stuff really means.  Curiosity has always been a failing of mine, so this weekend I may just wrassle with a VW tire a bit and go find out.  

Iffen I don't like it, I always have the Dunlop to fall back on.

Oldfeller

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 05/25/07 at 09:27:21

It's the weekend.  

I just ordered a Sigma bike computer from LL Bean for a whopping big $18.95 shipped to my door (just so I won't be fooled by any rear wheel size changes that might take place).

I'm going to shift this thing over into a tech section post on "Using oversized tires" and point it simply at how to clear the obstructions to larger tires inside the fender well itself.

This way the information works for those who want to put 190 or bigger size bike tires on their scooter as well as the nameless crazy idiots who might get tempted to do something stupid -- not that they ever should be so silly.  

And no, I've got a bagger style stock bike that covers up my rear tire almost completely and I will NEVER admit to what's under there (assuming it actually fits in there and actually stays there more than an hour or so).

;D

Oldfeller

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by verslagen1 on 05/25/07 at 11:18:14


Oldfeller2 wrote:
Iffen I don't like it, I always have the Dunlop to fall back on.


A pile of dunlop's is good to fall back on, especially if you're drinking   ;D

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 05/25/07 at 16:23:43

http://photos.gunloads.com/images/Oldfeller/stackotires.jpg

I only got two rear Dunlops to fall back on, but I got me a pair of Chen Shin fronts to lay over the top of them to make it all cushion-like and cuddly.

I likes to have my replacement parts all on deck when the time comes.  Saves all them separate shipping costs and long downtime waiting for parts to get here.

<grin>

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 05/28/07 at 04:17:22

http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/mounted.jpg

Some comments on mounting an oversized tire.  

You may try to reuse your old tube, but you may find that it has residual damage from being removed/installed that causes you to have a air leak.  If you get a new tube, get a 150/90-15 sized tube (largest one).

Since you are deflecting the sides of a larger tire "inwards" to go down to a small rim width (changing the bead engagement angle of the sidewall to the thread) expect to have to put a lot of extra pressure in the tire to get the bead to seat properly.  

Note: my tire actually reduced its outside diameter slightly during mounting -- it is now exactly 25" in diameter at 35 psi mounted on the rim.  See how small the deflated IRC is now (of course it is completely worn out and lost nearly an inch of diameter off the crown in doing that).

Use lots of extra slick bead slickum to aid in the bead going to the fully seated position, this will reduce the pressure needed to get a full bead seat.  

90-100 psi was what the 165-15 Nanchung VW tire required originally to go to fully seated on the bead.  I deflated pressure while the bead soap was still nice and gooshy to see what would happen and at 10 psi the bead popped down the shoulder again.  Reseating the bead only took 70 pounds, so I might theorize the bead stretches a bit to go into a fully seated position but retains part of that stretch once it has done it the first time.

I used straight dishwashing soap as my bead lube the second time around.  It was heavy enough and slick enough to get the job done and it will eventually dry and be partially absorbed by the bead rubber itself (soaps and waxes are actually components of rubber, BTW)

I intend to use the full 35 psi "max rated" pressure during fit up to  make sure a max bulged tire gets the correct amount of clearance to bolt heads inside the fender well.

Don't forget to balance your now slightly heavier wheel assembly.  

Also, take a stiff brush and scrub & rinse the soap residues off the sides of your newly mounted tire (it will rain sometime when you are riding and that's SOAP caked on the sides of your tire)

We shall now see how it fits in the hole.

Oldfeller

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 05/28/07 at 20:17:23

http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/bolts.jpg

When you look under your fender you see that the available real estate has been encroached by some large protruding fasteners.  You can remove some of them and replace them with stainless steel flat head and pan head socket type fasteners from:


www.boltdepot.com/product.aspx?cc=25&cs=82&cm=19&cd=1318

The list of possible replacement fasteners goes like this:

 Item # C
 Product #6698
 Metric socket flat head screws, Stainless A-2,   8mm x 1.25 x 16mm
 Quantity: 4 pieces
 Price: $0.54
 Subtotal: $2.16

 Item # B
 Product #6702
 Metric socket flat head screws, Stainless A-2,   8mm x 1.25 x 35mm
 Quantity: 4 pieces
 Price: $0.73
 Subtotal: $2.92

 Item #A
 Product #6657
 Metric socket button head screws, Stainless A-2,  8mm x 1.25 x 25mm
 Quantity: 4 pieces
 Price: $0.96
 Subtotal: $3.84

 Item #D  Welded Nut
 Shorten slightly with 4" grinder
 Overmold (blend a hump) with JB Weld Epoxy
 Paint with silver touch up paint

 Item #E  (not shown) Mounting bolt for Right Buddy Peg
 Shorten slightly with 4" grinder
 Paint with black touch up paint

You will need to buy a HSS countersink to countersink the flat headed screws to be nearly flush to the sheet metal that they will retain.  Close to flush, but not completely flush.  You do want some metal there to clamp up to, right?

Go slowly here == making the countersink too deep & large means you won't hold the sheet metal in place and that is a classic "bad thing" when trying to hold stuff together with flat headed fasteners.

The main fender mounting bolts get replaced with shallow pan head fasteners instead of flat heads.  Why pan heads?  You got these protector bumps in the sheet metal and all you really need to do is get shorter than the bumps.  Pan heads are stronger than flat heads and the fender is a structural element that sees strong vertical vibrational forces and potential tire/fender impact forces.  It needs more fastener strength than the horizontal mounted gingerbread stuff that we flat headed for width clearance.  

Note that the item #A fender mounting holes here aren't simple holes, they are slots.  If you need to shift the fender a bit to avoid a rub this is the time to do it.

Now, do you REALLY need to do all this removal and replacement of fasteners?  It depends on how big your oversize tire is and where it runs when installed on your rim.  

If you were rational and picked a 150/80 bike tire you likely won't have to do much at all.  If you were moderate and picked a 145-15 VW tire you wouldn't have to do near as much.  If you plan to put a 175/65R15 Continental on as your next experimental tire after you do yourself a chain conversion -- heck, you may need to flush mount everything you can possibly flush mount.

As always, this information is for theoretical discussion only -- nobody is actually ever going to do any of this silly stuff.  We all got better sense that that, naturally.   ::)

Oldfeller

PS   Buy the type of countersink with a single straight cutting edge that is easily resharpened with a standard bench grinder -- you will likely have to resharpen your countersink edge at least once while removing all that metal.

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by PerrydaSavage on 05/29/07 at 00:26:02

;D Oldfellar, this is GREAT stuff!! Keep 'er comin' ... can't wait to see the finished product! Of course this is all theoretical  ;)

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by MMRanch on 05/30/07 at 22:18:38

Hay
These dard side tires or nothing new. what do you think the original bikes had?  
I have  VW. tire on the back of mine now and love it.  its a Mitchelin 145xr/15 from Coker Tire.  I'll send a picture if i can put it together.  The first thing I did was lay the bike down in the grass all the way to the crash bar.  Its imposible to make it get onto the sidewall.  I've got about 1,000 miles on it now and the rearend drift is so predicable and sweet I cant help do curves faster than i should, its plain FUN.
Has anybody else done this yet  get back me

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 05/31/07 at 20:57:24

"Nothing new is under the sun" said Solomon back some 3,000 years or so ago.   History does repeat itself, you know.

Since 15" VW tires have been pretty commonly available (and fairly cheaply too) since the 1950's I'd be pretty durn surprised if one hadn't crept on to the back end of a bike before now.

MMRanch, how wide does your 145-15 Michelin sit on your rim, how tall is it diameter-wise after mounting and how does it track for clearance to the bolt heads inside your Savage's fender well?  How about clearance to the belt guard?

I'm curious because I opted for a size bigger at the 165-15 tire size and am now having to provide the bolt head running clearance space for it and may find me having a bit of a belt guard clearance issue too.  

How many pounds of air pressure do you currently run in your 145-15 Michelin and how does your wear pattern out at the radius corners do at that air pressure?  Do you see any center wear compared to the rest of the surface yet at  1,000 miles on your tire?

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 06/03/07 at 14:19:31

http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/fattire.jpg

Here is a fully functional 165-15 FAT TIRE mounted on a stock Savage bagger using the standard drive belt arrangement.  Extra clearance for the big tire was created in the fender well by removing the protruding bolt heads that Suzuki uses to clutter up the fender well on both sides.

There is ample clearance to the top.  There is lots of clearance to the left side.  There is clearance to the belt (but not much).  There is clearance to the belt guard (which is easily told to move over using a flat crowbar,  BTW).

Clearance to the right is very slim to none and needs some more work.  I will be changing the axle spacers to shift the tire over to the left to become more centered in the fender well.  The rear pulley (and the small belt clearance) will move along with the tire as the tire shifts, but the belt guard will likely require more adjusting with the flat crowbar after the shift is made.

So far handling on the fatter tire is not drastically different.  You can still drag a peg if you want to and braking ability in the wet has not declined to any noticeable degree.  You can skid the back tire if you get on the brakes really really hard (but you could do that with the stock IRC tire, too).

Best running pressure seems to be between 22 and 27 pounds of air.  Below 22 and things begin to feel mushy.  Get up to 27 and hard edges begin to be felt when leaning the bike over in a turn.

Does it feel different?   Yes, there is a whole lot more tire back there now and I am still learning how to use it to best advantage.  Taking a steep bank turn and hitting the gas as you exit the turn seems to make the tire want to dig in deeper which is new to me.  

Since I am managing my air pressure in the sweet zone I don't have the hard edges that so many have complained about.  I keep adjusting the pressure but the sweet zone is becoming more defined for me and seems to be heading towards 24-25 pounds.

I would say this mod is certainly doable, but I would also say is not for a beginner rider as you have to use good judgment as you make any modifications to the handling characteristics of your ride.

Your butt is 100% riding on your good judgment here, you know.  There is serious experimentation going on at the adjusting/riding stages now and I won't take the bike out into heavy street traffic until I get more miles on her and know more about how the new tire reacts to various hard braking and harsh movement scenarios.  

Oldfeller


Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Rockin_John on 06/04/07 at 12:51:06

That close-up looks good. More pictures to follow I hope. Maybe from a step or two back? Interesting stuff Oldfeller...

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 06/04/07 at 13:52:36

http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/axle.jpg

Now, how do you adjust the centering of a wheel assembly inside a fender well?   Especially if you need to shift the tire from right of center (Suzuki standard location) over to the left to get more room for a good bit bigger tire?

Answer, get 3 each of a 17mm I.D. plated steel washer and stack them all up and measure them as a total.  Cut the same total amount off the left side axle spacer (the fat one with the bearing seal riding on it that goes on the outside of the drive pulley).

Now you can move your wheel assembly around by a single washer's distance as you put the varying count of washers on the side that needs to be "thicker" to make the position of the tire be where you want it to be.  The total width of spacers and all 3 washers always remains the same, but the tire assembly moves back and forth at will by "one washer" increments.

That's how you fine tune your rear end "left to right" to make it perfect for whatever fat tire you have mounted on her this time around.

A point to be aware of if you have to get extreme with the tire lateral motion --- as you move left you decrease the amount of the female engagement of the brake drum assembly slot on to the male portion on the swing arm rib.  You can only go so far before you promote a divorce on these critical parts, so if you see the engagement getting a mite slim you might want to back off some on your tire shift.  

Your choices to go further left will need to include an extender plate on the brake drum assembly to reach out the slot to find the rib on the swing arm.  When you go to make such a thing, be aware that a 10-24 flat head socket screw will just span the gap on the inside of the hollow part of the casting such that the threads will sink in on both sides giving you more length of engagement.  The head of a 10-24 flat head just fits flush to the edge of the slot too.

http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/spacer.jpg

http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/spacercloseup.jpg

So now you have all the tricks needed to fit a 165-15 OR BIGGER tire.  You can center your tire in the cleaned out fender well and you have just a tiny bit of clearance on all sides.  And what is neat is you didn't have to put a chain drive conversion on your Savage to do the mod either.

Oldfeller

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 06/04/07 at 18:54:26

Riding the Howling Squirrel

====================

Ok, I admit to having an off the wall sense of humor.  I have been known to do the outrageous simply because it is fun.

I have a $34.95 Chungfooie throwaway VW tire on the back of my bike that could theoretically last me 15,000-20,000 miles of somewhat sane usage.  I have flogged it real good now and know what it will do in most situations.  I find I am not using the tire conservatively at all as it is dirt cheap and I'm simply having too much fun with it.

This is what it will do well (very well).  It will change drift in fine increments (make minute upright inside lane shifts with small inputs of body english).  It will bite and accelerate ferociously when you wick the throttle hard.  It will stop ferociously when you mash the brake petal hard.  

And, glory of all glories, it will intimidate the pure tee living sh-t out of a cager if you chose to break it free with a hard jab of the rear brake petal and lock her up a bit on purpose.  The sound the tire makes when you abuse it is the terrible full bore tire screeching howl of a cager getting ready to plow into someone.   Really loud, too -- that big ol' tire is a sound magnifying acoustical chamber I guess.

The sound is reverberating and is possibly louder than the horn -- certainly gets more attention than the horn does.

(hee hee hee)

Hey cut me off will you -- where's that mack truck that you just though was going to plow into the back of your mini-van you coke drinking cell phone chatting inattentive soccer mom you.  What, poor baby -- you dropped your phone on the floor and spilled your coke all over your lap grabbing on to your steering wheel for dear life like that -- well now, if you spent your driving time driving instead of chatting and drinking you'd probably do a better job of it.

The temptation is just too much for me.  Socially acceptable comeuppance on the bike killer soccer moms at last.

 (hee hee hee)


Things I still don't like.  What used to be seamless roll over into a turn now has 3 little mini parts and I am simply not used to that yet.  It still seems strange to have a 3 part change in feel when making a curve but it makes sense if you think about it some.  

This is the squirrely part of the howling squirrel nick-name, the three part harmony of making a hard lean turn.

Funny part is that I still have little abraded rubber thingies sticking out all over the tire -- I thought they'd all be gone by now.  

Oldfeller


P.S.  if you feel tempted to get a howling squirrel of your very own please do get the 145-15 size tire.  It is slightly shorter/narrower in the places that shorter and narrower are nice to have.  It's gotta be a lot less trouble than fitting the wider-fatter-taller 165 size VW tire.


Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by PerrydaSavage on 06/05/07 at 02:11:17

8) Oldfellar ... I'm really diggin your Darkside Tire mod on the LS! Gutsy, rebellious and slightly obnoxious! Way cool on all counts!  8)

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by klx650sm2002 on 06/05/07 at 04:01:16

Nice one Oldfeller, you've got balls that's for sure.

Clive W  :D

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by skatnbnc on 06/05/07 at 06:17:28

Oldfeller - when are you going to add the little golden eyed, sabre clawed banshee to the mix?

What good is a squirrel bike without a mascot!?  ;D

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 06/05/07 at 15:29:58

Hey, you don't think I'd get away with all this stuff without the shung-fuie spirit riding pillion behind me keeping all the evil soccer mom demons at bay do you?

;D

Oldfeller

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by barry68v10 on 06/06/07 at 16:03:11

Hey Oldfeller2, I'll be trying the 135 x 15 when the time comes.  I have a 17/43 chain conversion and don't need the extra height or the extra width on the already too skinny rim.  The strange thing is, I've got 3500 miles on the stock IRC and it's showing no signs of wear yet...

Perplexing!

Oh well, guess I'll have to rack up miles faster!   ;D

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 06/06/07 at 21:36:57

Yeah, rear tire wear is a function of wheel alignment, correct air pressure and your right wrist and foot habits.

Sluggo kills tires quicker than just about anybody -- just ask him what he does to the poor things to get just a summer a tire out of them.

Me, I brake hard and often.  Unfortunately, I now do even worst things than Suggo does, sometimes on purpose even.

Some quantity of folks have gotten 8,000 miles out of their IRC rear tire, I think one dude laid claim to over 10,000 miles on his IRC rear.  I got 5,369 miles out of mine.  My bad braking habits showing themselves, no doubt.

Watch out for them 135-15 tires, some of the ones out there are 145 carcasses with a smaller tread section plopped on top.   These would be of no advantage to you, you'd still have to deal with the 145 body size.

I don't think you'd have problems with a 145 body size, but you will likely still have to lose your bolt heads inside the right side of your fender well no matter what fatter tire size you fit.

Some hassle does come with the turf, you just don't have to sign up for a heaping plate full of it with a 165-15.

Oldfeller


Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 06/08/07 at 03:54:53

Phelonius just did his rear end with a 135-15.  


============ cutscene ==========

Luke, Obiwan and Yoda


Luke, I sense a disturbance in the force --- something large and powerful is moving in the Galaxy and we must be ready to deal with it.

Gasp!  It howls!  It growls!  It is harder to kill than any other of its kind and yet it is cheap and multiplies freely.  It is everywhere and we cannot hold it off!

Master Yoda, can you sense exactly what it is?  Or where it is so we can go fight it?

No, young Paduwan -- it is not out there, it is in here -- within our Jedi ranks.  Someone has changed the order of the universe and things that were not possible are now possible.  Some of us good Jedi are seeking the extra life force that comes with this new change.

Yoda, I sense the change itself can be good or bad -- depending on how it is used.  It was said this new thing came originally from the darkside, but obviously it can be used for good.  

Master, only if you are very wise as you approach it.  Oh Master, (gasp) -- the foolish may bleed however, because they will not use it wisely.

Yes, Obiwan -- learn more about this change we must from anyone who has embraced it.   We must spread the wisdom and fight the foolishness wherever we find it.

Master, I think I too sense something -- pressure is important to this thing.  Too much makes it hard and too little makes it mushy and uncontrollable -- there is a middle path though in the center of the pressure that leads to both long life and great success.

Go, young Paduwan, and seek out the truth.

Yes Luke, go quickly -- and report back frequently.


======================================

PS

Yoda is one cheap ol' hand puppet and he doesn't believe in paying Michelin prices for a tire that isn't going to see but maybe a 20% of a rated car load during its whole motorcycle lifetime.  

How do I know Yoda's a cheapie?  Come on, he lives in a dung-heated mud hut in a stinkin' swamp -- he's that durn cheap.

Yoda recommends you check out a 145-15 (or 135 if you are totally chicken) here at BFY because they cost less'n 1/2 what a Dunlop cycle tire would cost and could last 3-4 times longer.  Yoda says that is his kind of "wise Jedi tire spending".  Stay away from the 165-15 -- it is too much durn trouble to get it to fit into the fender well.

http://www.bfyobsoleteparts.com/Tires-c-338.html

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 06/10/07 at 11:19:56

Ok, I moved the serious part of this discussion over to the Technical Page as an instruction on fitting MUCH larger tires.  Didn't say much else over there -- ain't the place for a discussion anyhow.

I referred back to this here ongoing discussion for information on cheap tire sources and tips on adjusting pressure and riding tips.  Gotta give them serious folks instructions in how to ride their Howling Squirrel once they get her all mounted up.

Now, here is an interesting statement I am going to make that is going to go counter to most of the "drink rings on the table" common knowledge that always prevails here in the Cafe.

============================

Quote:  "I haven't got any wear marks on my new tire that show I ever get up on the side of it to any degree at all."

============================

To help this little discussion along I paint stick marked the edge of my wear pattern so I can take pictures periodically to help prove/disprove this item.

http://photos.gunloads.com/images/Oldfeller/tread.jpg

You can see some roughening of the edge zone where I blended the edge a bit with a power planer (I never said I wanted any durn sharp edges, now did I?) but I don't see any pavement wear that even went that far round the edge.

Them flatsiders MAY have been telling the truth when they say they use the flat side of the tire in a corner when their air pressure is adjusted correctly.  

We shall see, won't we?   I may have wasted that nice clean sharp edge on my planer blade for nothing.

Oldfeller



Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Savage_Rob on 06/10/07 at 11:44:55

For the images in the Tech Ref thread, I downloaded your images, cropped off the gunloads.com tag, and have them hosted locally.

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 06/10/07 at 11:52:27

Hey, I appreciate that.  Putting pics up anywhere for a long term teaching item is iffy because you come back one day and it's all gone.

Gunloads would be slow to do that because they'd be killing things I had done for them in my previous life as a gun-nut show'n how to do it person that they might want to keep (that's why I have server space with them in the first place).

But they might trim all the motorcycle stuff (yep, I could see them doing that).

It's better that you host the cycle stuff so it won't be disappearing on you.

Oldfeller

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by tuxedo on 06/10/07 at 17:40:26

after i wear out the tire on glenn, i'm definitely going to an automotive tire.  mainly for the looks.  partly for the economic value.

being raised as a cabinetmaker, i already have plans on a jig for the tire to run it against a vertical belt sander at various angles to remove the sharp 90 on the edges.

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 06/10/07 at 17:59:39

Bump Steer Types

Mild Bump Steer =  when you are going around a turn and hit a spot where they ran a pipe across the road and then they fixed the road afterwards leaving a little dip in the pavement.  The dip makes a mild bump which briefly compresses and conforms your tire a bit more which changes your feel momentarily and that feedback is interpreted by your middle ear and brain stem hindbrain (where all your bike riding balance stuff is constantly being processed) as an "Oh Sh-t !!" sensation.  

You learn to get over the periodic mild bump steer sensations as they happen fairly frequently and actually mean very little.  Practice that same spot a bit until you understand it better (reprogram your hindbrain some).

====================================

HUGE Pot Hole Bump Steer = during a strong leaning curve when your bigger tire gets driven up into the fender strongly by a VERY BIG BUMP.  The sudden braking force and noise from the tire/fender contact does indeed give you a very real alarm sensation.  Your hindbrain instantly instructs you to soil your shorts a bit and you vow not to run over any more potholes in a turn if you can possibly avoid it.  

You get this exact same sensation with a bike tire when you do the same thing.  Your front tire doesn't like it one little bit either.

Tensing up when a bump steer event takes place is a bad thing.   When you tense up you straighten up, this causes you to tend to go straight for a bit.  This is bad news in a turn.  This is the exact same stuff that happens to new riders which causes them to go off the road (generally at Deal's Gap at the exact same place Killboy likes to snap all his "flying Ducati" pictures).

================================

VERY HIGH SPEED Bump Steer =  when you are trying to break the Ton with your new tire and the centripital forces cause the tire to grow in the middle until something rubs somewhere.  See hindbrain reaction to HUGE Pothole Bump Steer -- go home and change your underwear.  Increase the air pressure slightly before making your next attempt.

Note:  if you had put on a 145-15 you would get about the same mileage on the tire and you would get a lot more miles between your underwear changes.  That 165-15 is simply just too durn tall.

                    :o

Oldfeller

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 06/12/07 at 04:01:37

More Sensational Fun !!!

High Speed "Swim" or "rumba" = a very high speed thing that takes place at 90 mph and up.  You are going so fast you are going over little pavement changes at an increased rate.  The tiny bump steer events that take place between the slabs on the superslab highway can strike up a beat with your bike's suspension and you start to feel like you are mounted on a rumba dancer's butt while you are going way too fast anyway.

Slow down, hit the next exit and put some more air in your rear tire.  Superslab doesn't involve a lot of curves and more air pressure equals greater stability for the high speed straight line stuff.

I have migrated up in normal pressure to 27 pounds now -- the issues associated with soft conformance are balancing out with the edge issues and I find I can tolerate more edge anyway now that I am getting used to it.  

For Superslab interstate travel I have run 30-32 pounds in the big tire with no rumba issues at any speed I can reach with my Savage.  I have not had any tire growth at the higher air pressures either (more miles between unexpected underwear changes).

Oldfeller

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 06/12/07 at 16:29:46

One more minor refinement in the search for "fit" around a really big tall tire.  

I needed another washer thickness worth (1/8") of extra clearance on the left side to resolve some occasional rub issues between the chain guard mount arm and the outside of the big pulley.  

Problem was that the space simply didn't exist.  There was no extra space available to take from Peter to give to Paul by moving a washer.  I was out of room completely between the swingarm posts.  I was packed tight -- no room to move anything.

So I put a small scissors jack between the two parallel arms and deflected them outwards a tad (bent the "U" open a bit at the mouth in other words).

It worked to create an extra quarter inch of total installed space that didn't exist before.  Now with the extra washer the total of the parts in the location they need to be in works out with enough clearance not to rub into each other.  The tightening of the axle put the free clearance to the new stackup back to the normal amount free slop, so any extra leftovers from a bend job is reclaimed when the axle is tightened and loosened again.

Question now arises -- this dirty trick worked fairly easily, so just how far could you open your "U" up before you actually damaged something?

It's mild steel pipe.  It bends fairly easily.

Not that anyone would ever PLAN to do something like that -- we all have better sense than to modify our swingarms and change the geometric characteristics of our rides.

           ::)

Oldfeller


Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by tuxedo on 06/12/07 at 16:33:18

Well, at that point a sane person MIGHT be worried about shock alignment and all....but they might also view that as a good opportunity to open up a whole new world of fat rear tires for the savage.

Conjecture, of course, but if a fatter rim could be laced up, a crazy person might think thoughts.

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 06/12/07 at 16:40:24

Yeah, but only after drinking a six pack or two first .....

Oldfeller

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by cowboyupdjcarl on 06/12/07 at 20:11:47

My 1400 Intruder on a darkside tire.

The 165R15 is the tire the local cheapo stores can order or keep in stock just for the few local VW's in the area.

Michelin has an expensive 175/15 but does not compute to fit in the swing arm.

Check out the pics...

http://www.intruderalert.com/cafe/index.cfm?page=topic&topicID=102202&start=lastpage

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 06/13/07 at 03:42:09

What rim size do they have on a 1400 Intruder?  The Savage says it is a DOT 2.75" wide rim.

What air pressure do you run?  How many miles so far?

Same size tire on a Savage is a bit of a pain to fit, but it will go into the fender well after you empty it out and center it up.

Oldfeller

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by cowboyupdjcarl on 06/13/07 at 19:15:00

Not sure the width of my rim right now.

The size used is because it fits the swing arm.

The ONLY 175 I found was a Michelin for about $100
THAT defeated the purpose of the cheaper tire.
Then the 175 had the possibility of rubbing the swing arm.

I have over 2,000 miles and I am running a hefty 30psi.

I am experimenting with dropping the pressure a little.

Others on the board have been through a tire or 2 and have had no problems. Sealing the rim and going tubeless is the way to go if you have the time. That makes it a $3 walmart plug kit in the saddle bag AND/OR fix-a-flat or the new slime stuff!

I am looking at doing this on the wifes Savage!
I have not found any 15" tires in a smaller width than the 165.

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 06/14/07 at 02:09:44

Try looking here for inexpensive 145-15 tires.

http://www.bfyobsoleteparts.com/Tires-c-338.html

So far the quality of tire is acceptable, but then so is the price.  These folks charge you what it cost to make the shipment to you, nothing more.

Oldfeller

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by MMRanch on 06/14/07 at 13:35:17

Master Yoda would be hard pressed to come up with a better idea that car tires on bikes.  Makes me wonder how we got  stuck with all those gum-ball tires in the first place...probley somebody won a race sometime.   Well the Gold mine of short life tires is closed as far a I"m concerned.

The width of the 145sr15 mounted is just under 5 inches and the height is real close to 23.5.

I had a hard time getting it to pop-out on the rim.  I'll use dish soap next time, this time i used Grease and never did make it pop-out.  So I made a knife blade out of an old jig saw plade and "Just took off a measured and marked 1/8 inch strip in the middle.  It is still so tight it will probley be cut off  when and if it wears out.

I'm trying the nanking next time.

Keep on Thumping!

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 06/15/07 at 15:00:58

Let's have a little fun.

Here is a pic with me holding the bike over at an angle and pushing down on the pillion seat to make the tire conform like it will do when leaned over at an angle.

http://photos.gunloads.com/images/Oldfeller/conformancepatch.jpg


Notice the white paint stick marks -- if you blow up on the picture you can see that the edge of the pavement wear never leaves the flat part of the tire even after a week of hard use.  This is because the tire does keep the tread relatively flat on the road even when cornering hard.  

Notice how the sidewall flexes to make it work, not you rolling the contact patch around the circumference of a rounded motorcycle tire like on a Dunlop.

======================================

Now this next picture is a puzzlement quizz for the newcomers and an answer to an older mod that I said I'd hold off on saying it worked until I had confirmation that it continued to work properly over time.  

Hint: it isn't a custom wrench holder.

http://photos.gunloads.com/images/Oldfeller/customwrenchholder.jpg

Now that's what I call still working strong.

;D

Oldfeller


Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Savage_Rob on 06/15/07 at 15:27:54


Oldfeller2 wrote:


Now this next picture is a puzzlement quizz for the newcomers and an answer to an older mod that I said I'd hold off on saying it worked until I had confirmation that it continued to work properly over time.  

Hint: it isn't a custom wrench holder.

http://photos.gunloads.com/images/Oldfeller/customwrenchholder.jpg

Now that's what I call still working strong.

;D

Oldfeller

Cool!  You got the rare earth installed!

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 06/15/07 at 18:29:44

Yeah, she's been in place for nearly 1,000 miles now and seems to have lost nothing significant in her magnetic strength due to the engine heat.  I snapped this pic at first oil change after putting her in several months ago.  

We know it didn't come apart because it isn't on the oil plug magnet (nothing was on the oil plug magnet, absolutely nothing at all -- not even sludge).  The oil was remarkably clean looking for dingy dark oil, probably because there are no micro-bits of metal in it at all.

This is the big honker magnet, I still have one of the small ones sitting on the refrigerator agravating my wife (she knows its a refrigerator magnet but her fingers aren't strong enough to pull it off to put a note under it).

I'll post a "How to" with pics when I take it down for the filter change this fall.

Oldfeller

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 06/18/07 at 19:50:18

New types of Bump Steer


Old Interstate wagon rut wallow
================

When they have paved over some old concrete and the asphalt gives a little where all the car and truck tires run making a small depression or rut in the asphalt pavement.

Get in that rut and you wallow from one side to the other with your micro bump steer sending you "down the sides" from one side to the other and back again.

Solution = get out of the stupid wagon rut and run on the crown area in the middle between the two ruts.

;)

Oldfeller

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by LANCER on 06/18/07 at 21:43:00


Quote:
Cool!  You got the rare earth installed!


Where do you get the thing?
How much are they?

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Savage_Rob on 06/19/07 at 05:44:26

Topic: $10 Supermagnet on the oil filter (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=RubberSideDown;action=display;num=1175727064)

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by barry68v10 on 06/19/07 at 16:03:40


Quote:
Get in that rut and you wallow from one side to the other with your micro bump steer sending you "down the sides" from one side to the other and back again.


But that would let you kick back and read a book while you ride assuming you have cruise control!   ;D

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 06/19/07 at 17:40:30

I ain't that laid back, really, plus if it did the wallow long enough you'd get all sea-sick from the rolling road.

Oldfeller

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by barry68v10 on 06/19/07 at 18:16:46

LOL!  Roger that!  Just checking to see the level of your "laid backedness."  As I said before, as soon as I wear out this tire (I'm cheap) I'll let you know how the smaller darkside tire thing goes...with the agreement that this is all just "theoretical" anyhow!

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 06/21/07 at 17:20:46

Ok, I got 500 miles on the VW 165-15 rear tire now.  It is tuned in as good as can be using the standard belt drive and it is good to go now for a total wear-out run.  

I've reprogrammed my hindbrain now and don't notice the small bump steer event stuff any more.  High speed bump steer stuff still gets my attention, but I just move over some to get it to stop.

The tire size change caused a "full speed" 5 mph shift compared to the calibrated Sigma 506 electronic speedo.  Some of that 5 mph is due to the standard Suzuki speedo error we all know we have, but you simply can't quantify until you get yourself a calibrated digtal speedo.

I struggle to break 90 mph now where I used to struggle to break 85 mph -- big deal.   I am running 28-29 pounds of air pressure and I find it funny that this air pressure is what Suzuki recommends for the rear tire anyway.  

(at least I think it's funny - ain't much standard about the rear end of the bike anymore but it still likes the OEM recommended air pressure)

Had a cager slam on her brakes in front of me tonight to keep from running a camera watched yellow light (it was a woman in a Honda Civic).  I had to do a full panic stop, screaming howling squirrel sounds and all.  I stopped easily shorter than she did despite her getting a jump on her braking and I was going faster than she was too.  

Braking is OK.  Noisy, but OK.

I had me a white smoke throwing rubber stinking rear tire though (been a while since I really smoked a tire braking it, generally the IRC eraser just abraded away quietly with no smoke and no noise).   I also did me a nice little butt end squiggle and I had to manage the front brake to keep from going sideways -- with these car tires you go back all the way to controlling braking skids which is something the youngsters amongst us may have never have had to do before.

Tire has finally worn off the nubbies but has not completely worn away the mold parting-line mark in the middle of the tire.  At 500 miles the tire is just now "broken in" good.

You got 0.2665" of tread depth available at the dead center of the tire and to be on line to wear out like the IRC did at 5,536 miles I would have to have scrubbed off around 1/32" of tread depth by now.  

I haven't got nearly that much wear yet despite all the howling squirrels I've pulled.

How I hold the caliper is vital for me to say I have any real wear at all at this stage of things -- so the VW tire at least looks to have potential to last a good bit longer than the IRC rear tire did.

I will dig this up to post if I come up with any more unique rolling antics that the squirrel shows to me, otherwise I'm done here.  

It ain't news any more.   Old hat stuff now.

Good riding to you all,

Oldfeller


Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by PerrydaSavage on 06/22/07 at 01:13:18

8) Splendid Oldfellar! You are a definite credit to your species!  ;D 8)
Happy Riding!

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by tuxedo on 07/10/07 at 18:31:11

any cool, high performance tires in those sizes?  i'm going to be running a kenda k761 enduro tire up front and i want something really nifty in the way of a super high performance street tire.  dunno if i'll get close at all with vw tires.

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Phelonius on 07/11/07 at 16:39:06

just for the record, the Michilin, or however that is spelled, has been on for more than 1500 miles now. T'werks real good. Bigger contact patch for braking, steers good, and milage went up by 5 mpg.
Outside circumference went from 76 and 3/8ths to 75 and 3/8ths inches. That is only about one and one half percent smaller, or in other words, about a one mile per hour difference at Highway speeds and one mile per gallon error in distance computations.

I expect it wil last a lot longer than the original tire too.

Phelonius

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Phelonius on 07/11/07 at 16:41:58


Oldfeller2 wrote:
Yeah, she's been in place for nearly 1,000 miles now and seems to have lost nothing significant in her magnetic strength due to the engine heat.  I snapped this pic at first oil change after putting her in several months ago.  

We know it didn't come apart because it isn't on the oil plug magnet (nothing was on the oil plug magnet, absolutely nothing at all -- not even sludge).  The oil was remarkably clean looking for dingy dark oil, probably because there are no micro-bits of metal in it at all.

This is the big honker magnet, I still have one of the small ones sitting on the refrigerator agravating my wife (she knows its a refrigerator magnet but her fingers aren't strong enough to pull it off to put a note under it).

I'll post a "How to" with pics when I take it down for the filter change this fall.

Oldfeller


I can see that it makes for a handy way to carry the thing you throw at tailgaters!

Phelonius

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 07/14/07 at 11:04:06

MATH QUIZZ

Original depth of thread at 5,350 miles was .2665" when I put on the VW tire.  I've put 1,301 miles on the rear tire since I put it on.  It has worn .009" off the center of the tire.

Tread depth of the legal wear bar is .062".   The total tread height to bottom of center groove is .2580" right now.  

I tend to wear tires until they are bald in the center.  How many miles do I have until my tire is bald?  

How many miles will I be riding around breaking the wear limit law?

If you put a brand new IRC on your bike at the same instant my wear bars showed on the VW tire, which one of us would go bald in the center first?

Makes you think, doesn't it?

<grin>

Oldfeller



Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by ThumpinSquid on 09/19/07 at 10:41:15

Oldfeller!

Just got done sticking a 165R15 in my Savage and a few things to add.

EDIT>>I forgot to mention, mounting the tire is not for those with strong survival instincts. I don't know what pressure will rupture a beetle tire, but my 150psi compressor was about maxed out getting the tire to seat on the bead, and when it did seat, it slammed to rim so hard it sounded like a gun shot and blew dishsoap bubbles  a good twenty feet away. I thought I burst the tube at first, because the air between the tube and tire was being pushed out of the bead and making bubbles in the dish soap "slickum" as you call it. End Edit.

After using a scissor jack to spread the swing arm open, and then using ratchet straps to close it back together a little since I went overboard with the spreading, I didn't need any spacers on either side of the wheel. Also, the belt will not track correctly.

After widgetting the adjusters until the belt tracked the center of the pully and not rubbing either side, I stepped back, good and proud of what a good job I'd done and saw my rear tire was so caddy-wompus that if I'd taken it out on a ride it'd look like I was riding sidways.

I readjusted the tire so it's back in line with the bike, and adjusted the belt tension to a 90* bend with three fingers and took another look at the pulley. The belt rubs the inside of the pully when in engages, and rubs the outside of the pulley at the back, and then rubs the inside again where it leaves to go back to the drive pulley. Not to an extreme, I'm still gonna ride it like that, but it doesn't give me a warm fuzzy. I'm sure I'll get away with this for a few hundred miles, but without shimming out the front pulley or milling in the rear pulley, I don't think the 165 really legitimately fits without doing the chain drive conversion.

On a side note, all you guys suck because I'd have been just dandy with my perfectly stock Savage until you guys got me! It started with the innocent little "My butt hurts after 2 hours so I raised the front of the seat like this..." so I did it too, and then "My hands get tired so I turned my handlebars like this" and then I got mini 'apes. Then it was "My Savage sounds like the farting room at a gerbil convention" so got a Triumph Dunstall megaphone. Then it was cut the white space and drill out the plug and order a dial-a-jet and now a beetle tire is greased up and shoe-horned into my tiny little scooters fender. I sure hope  I never decide to sell this bike, only an idiot would want it now! Guess that says what I am ;D

Here's some pics. My editing program died in a recent battle of wits between me and this stupid flickering thinkin' box, so if someone wants to lighten or sharpen the pics, it won't hurt my feelings:

Here's an ugly dark picture of the 165 in there:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v406/Wagothing/S5300069.jpg


Here's the only tight spot after all the bending and rebending, about 1/8" between tire and swingarm:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v406/Wagothing/S5300071.jpg

Here's a pic showing the complete lack of washers, even though I bought a whole box of the things:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v406/Wagothing/S5300072.jpg

And here's on just to show how nice my scoot is sitting in front of a Sportster I fixed for one of my riding buddies who crashed, well, because he's a stereotypical "got the money, bought a harley" guy. Whatyagonnado:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v406/Wagothing/S5300070.jpg

Sorry I haven't posted a lot in the last, oh, say year. But I'm still really really mad at all you freeks for not taking resposnibility for my actions. :P ;D

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by islandwahine on 09/19/07 at 12:12:09

And here I thought my carport was a mess!  ;D

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by ThumpinSquid on 09/19/07 at 12:50:04

Yeah, I'm blaming you guys for that too! :P ;D

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Rockin_John on 09/20/07 at 07:45:44

Umm... putting a car tire on is one thing, but bending on a swingarm is maybe not the best idea I've heard today. Potential stress cracking and what-not.

Oh, and who told you those apehangers were "mini?" ;)

But seriously, how do you like the sound of the pseudo-Dunstall? Have you run it without the baffle installed? 8)

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by ThumpinSquid on 09/20/07 at 08:48:14

The only baffle is really more of a spark arrester. It's about a foot long, 2" diameter with gratuitous perferrations 3/16" big. The megaphone cones back down to 2" before evacuating the exhaust gases, it's not just a plate stuck on the end with a 2" hole in it. The sound is awesome! Another Harley friend of mine has leaf-blower shorty pipes that always sounded great, up until I pull along side and get on it! Makes his bike sound like a lawn mower, and makes mine sound like someone's about to fire a pi$$ed off gremlin out of a cannon! Although my favorite thing about this pipe, is that when I let off the throttle at speed and the bike starts backfiring while it winds down, my exhaust looks like the afterburner on an F-16, even in daylight! of course, all that backfiring has already started to blue the pipe, right about where the spark arrester is, so I've started fiddling with the carb to cut back on it some. All in all, I'm super happy with the $60 Dunstall type pipe, I'd recommend it to anyone willing to fiddle with there carb afterwards! ;)

Oh, for my own butt-coverage, I'm not recommending anyone bend their swing arm! But it's just mild steel, You can bend it with slow steady pressure all day long and not cause any kind of measurable damage. It's not heat treated or tempered in any way, and you only have to bend it about 1/2" so that you gain a little over 1/8" after it springs back.

I must stress, just like Oldfeller, don't do anything you're not comfortable with! I know I'm not paying anyone else's hospital bills just because they hurt themselves doing what I did! Use your own common sense! :)

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 11/02/07 at 21:15:39

And I done told you several times that a 165-15 was a pain in the ass and to stick with the 145-15 (as it just plain dodged some of them spacing issues) but oh no, you had to go for the whole enchalada, didn't you?

Only good news is that when you get it working right you are out of the rear tire fiddling business for YEARS, literally.  Long enough to forget all about it and go on to other things.  

Long enough to forget you even have a rear tire back there.

I just went out and measured mine again and dug up my spreadsheet (with the prediction math all built into it).  I've worn of 0.029" of rubber in 3,276 miles which translates in to well over 20,000 miles left on the tire (and over two years yet to go to get there).

Then I read about folks who just went on a long summer trip on their Savage and had to stop and put two (2) rear tires on it during the trip .....  yikes -- I'm just too lazy to go there.

And too cheap too -- mine is a $34.99 tire.  Folks are popping down a hundred plus dollars a bike tire (mounted) every stinkin' summer, year in and year out.

Do de math, boys and girls -- dem bike tires suck.  

Oldfeller

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by PerrydaSavage on 11/03/07 at 03:03:43

Great stuff b'ys! ;D i really enjoy reading about the wild mods you fellows are doing to the good 'ol LS! Wicked! Would love to see a few more pics of those "Darkside" tires mounted on your Savages! 8)

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Savage_Greg on 11/03/07 at 06:12:45


Rockin_John wrote:


Oh, and who told you those apehangers were "mini?" ;)



Yeah, and from the looks of it, you, John, could probably play us a tune on the clutch and brake cables ;D




Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Savage_Greg on 11/03/07 at 06:26:33


ThumpinSquid wrote:


Oh, for my own butt-coverage, I'm not recommending anyone bend their swing arm! But it's just mild steel, You can bend it with slow steady pressure all day long and not cause any kind of measurable damage. It's not heat treated or tempered in any way, and you only have to bend it about 1/2" so that you gain a little over 1/8" after it springs back.



But 2 questions....  

How do you know that the swingarm welding didn't involve some kind of designed pre-stressing.  Just because it is mild steel doesn't mean that you can't crack a weld.

When you spread it apart with a scissors jack, only the weaker side will move...or only one side will move until both sides are stressed the same.  How do you know which side gave you the 1/8" clearance that you were seeking, or do you just assume that you got 1/16" on each side equally?


Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Savage_Greg on 11/03/07 at 06:32:54


PerrydaSavage wrote:
Great stuff b'ys! ;D i really enjoy reading about the wild mods you fellows are doing to the good 'ol LS! Wicked! Would love to see a few more pics of those "Darkside" tires mounted on your Savages! 8)


Yeah, I will admit, there be some creative genius running rampant in this topic.  I wish I'd been there for those flying "slick-um" bubbles too.  That must have been a hoot.

Okay.  Now, who's gonna be the first to mount a steering wheel on their Savage?


Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 11/03/07 at 07:05:56

Opinion -- my left side is what moved, mostly.  But since I was only looking for an eight of an inch of increase I didn't move anything very much so I really can't say for sure.

Squid moved his a lot, way more than me, enough to shift his centering all by itself.  This means he moved his left side out and then moved his right back pretty much to where it started from.  

I ain't that bold, I cut my left spacer and used washers to move my centering around and only needed a tiny bit of extra space to clear my stock belt guard to the tire.

The swingarm pipe is mild steel that is gusseted and welded up at the bend area to a fair-thee-well, so the weld area isn't what is moving.  It is the pipe itself, most likely where it exits the gusset area.

Bending mild steel ain't that hard.  I am planning to put my sporty muffler in a big vise at work and clamp her up tight on a piece of sturdy pipe and bend my offset angle right into the muffler itself.

Muffler steel is well annealed stuff, all them hot and cold cycles have drawn it totally and totally destressed it.  It will bend pretty easy I am guessing.  

Supporting the can without denting it will be the hard part so I will have to cast me a cloth-coated quikcrete gripper block to hold the muffler can with.

Something to do this winter when it finally gets too cold to ride.

Oldfeller


Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Savage_Greg on 11/03/07 at 08:11:20

Here's my old swingarm photo.  I had the footpeg mounts welded up...

I bet that with the swingarm mounted to the frame that just about all of the bending occurred in the area after the footpeg mounts.  Not that long of a distance.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/SwingArm1web.jpg

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Phelonius on 01/14/08 at 10:01:19

I've been re-reading some of this thread about automotive tires on bikes.
If you rememberback to last early summer, I put a michlin 135X15 on my machine. My original tire was down to bald spots at less than 3,000 miles. Sidecar wears a tire faster than solo, especially the rear tire.
My rig now has just less than 12,000 miles on it. Thats 9,000 miles on the rear tire. It still handles very well and brakes better and shows very little signs of wear. The 135 width is physically about one RCH narrower than the original but because of the flatter profile of the tread, puts a larger footprint on the ground. Hence the better braking.
Since it is a true radial, the rolling friction is less thus my milage is better. I tape measured both tires with air in them and found that there was only a tiny bit less than 3/4 inch difference in circumference.
That is circumference, not diameter.
Since the tire is about the same outside width as the original, measured at the sidewall it is actually a smidgeon less, no swingarm modification was needed.
Wider tires generally need more power to carry you at the same speed. This is one of the reason I chose the 135 instead of wider. The other is that no problems in fender clearance were detected either.
At the rate of inspected wear, I expect to get at least 10,000 more miles from this tire on this sidecar rig.
BTW, front tire problems were eliminated by mounting an Avon sidecar special tire up there. It too is a flatter profile at the tread and so I get much the same benifits.
Just a bit more info for you to use when choosing an automotive tire.

Phelonius

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by YonuhAdisi on 01/14/08 at 12:55:01

I don't drink, but you got me to think that I might just be willing to try this particular mod.

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by YonuhAdisi on 01/14/08 at 13:21:20

What is the full size of that VW tire. 145 is the hight, 15 is the rim size, but what is the width size according to the tire? A car tire has three numbers that indicate its size such as 165\65\15 What is the middle number on the VW tire?

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller on 01/14/08 at 13:34:02

Nope, the old VW nomeclature was simplistic -- 145 is the width, the height was set by VW and should be relational to the width.  All VW tires are silent 80s so it is 145/80-15 if you wanted it stated in new-speak.

You will also note that xx/75R15 tires would also fit the envelope if you can find them thin enough on the width.  Your fender gets tight at 7.0 inches so you really can't go swinging past a very few 175 tires that spec out at 6.9" wide (Pirelli 3000 series is about it).  All the rest spec out at 7.2 inches wide which would be real iffy to go inside the fender.

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by demin on 01/14/08 at 15:14:57

Yon:bike tires also have three numbers.Lets say 145/65/15
145 width in mm.
65 (aspect ratio)means the tire is 65% tall as it is wide.In terms if you had a 5"wide tire it should have a 3.25" tall sidewall.
15 means the rim diameter.

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by YonuhAdisi on 01/14/08 at 17:37:22

I've been looking on-line for a tire and the biggest diameter they have is for a 10 inch wheel. I KNOW they make them for a 15 because after all, y'all have them.

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Phelonius on 01/14/08 at 20:17:48


4F7978637E57727F657F160 wrote:
I've been looking on-line for a tire and the biggest diameter they have is for a 10 inch wheel. I KNOW they make them for a 15 because after all, y'all have them.


I went to Les Schwab for mine.

Phelonius

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller on 01/15/08 at 04:06:49

These folks were a lot cheaper when I did it, but they still have and will ship you a tire.  Any car tire place will order you one, just ask them.

http://www.bfyobsoleteparts.com/Tires-c-338.html

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller2 on 01/21/08 at 10:07:04

And if you want the MAXIMUM width tire that will go in your 7.0" fender well (will require full hardware replacement with flush mounted bevel headed screws as listed up thread) this is the one.  Size is 175/65R15,  costs $90 (twice as much as a VW tire from the cheapie place).

Note it has rounded corners so you won't have bump steer issues to the same degree as a square shouldered tire would have.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Pirelli&tireModel=P3000E&vehicleSearch=false&partnum=765HR53000E&fromCompare1=yes&place=1

Go here for the Tire Rack listing -- you will have to tell Tire Rack you own a Mini Cooper Convertible when they ask you what sort of car you plan to mount the tire on.  Tell them your girl friend wants a full size spare for her car and you have bought a stock Mini Cooper rim from a junkyard to put it on.  Tire Rack is VERY tiresome about all their questions to make sure the tire they sell you is a legal match to the vehicle ...

http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/pirelli/pi_p3000e_ci2_l.jpg

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by barry68v10 on 05/04/08 at 14:27:15

155/80-15 is a more common size than 145R-15 and can be order just about anywhere including tirerack and walmart last time I checked.

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller on 05/05/08 at 13:36:47

Here is the BF Goodrich 155/80R-15 from Tire Rack.  This $69 tire gets pretty good reviews (80,000 mile tire life reported on larger versions of the same tire) and it would be easier to install in a Savage fender well than the wider Perelli tire shown above.  This will likely be my next tire in a few years when I need to replace the $34.99 Ching-Fooie that is on there now.

Wal-Mart will order this tire for you for $79 -- this is actually cheaper than Tire Rack as Wal-Mart does not charge you for shipping as it comes on their standard weekly truck shipment.

This tire is "best fit" for what you can get easily from a local store -- you will still have to do some of the width mods listed above on both sides of your fender well.    The 145-15 tire size would likely require the bolt head mod on the left side only.  

Phelonius gives us the 135-15 tire size (same as stock tire) which does not require any fender bolt mods at all.  You pick the level of complexity you want to deal with when you pick your tire size, just remember we are seeing tire life on the order of 2-3 years out of these tires so you certainly won't have to mess with picking tires very often.

(addendum "we are seeing tire life on the order of 4-6 years out of these tires .... once broken in they don't wear as fast")

Oldfeller

http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/bfg/bf_radial_ta.jpg

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by barry68v10 on 05/06/08 at 14:42:30

Good lookin' tread pattern, too!   ;D

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller on 09/09/08 at 15:52:53

DO NOT PUT A CAR TIRE ON A BIKE RIM.  IT IS TOO DANGEROUS.

============================================

barry68v10 PUT A TA 155/80r15 ON THE BACK OF HIS BIKE, DROVE IT A COUPLE OF MILES TO A SERVICE STATION AND BLEW IT UP (that's exploded it for you who haven't heard yet) AT 175 PSI TRYING TO GET THE BEAD TO SEAT.  HE HAD SPRAYED TRUCK BED LINER ON HIS SPOKES TO SEAL THEM AND GOT SOME ON THE BEAD AREA.

HE DID DAMAGE TO HIS HEARING AND SHREDDED HIS SADDLE BAGS.

DO NOT TRY THIS MOD.

IT IS FORMALLY UNAPPROVED FOR LIST MEMBERS TO DO.

I FORMALLY RECANT THIS MOD AS IT IS TOO DANGEROUS TO YOU AND YOUR EARS AND YOUR HANDS AND YOUR EYES (AND TO YOUR SADDLE BAGS).


(signed)

Oldfeller

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller on 09/09/08 at 15:54:46

Now, there is some debate as to if Barry68v10 is pulling our collective legs since he magically threw away his saddle bags and stripped his shredded tire off his rim within the first hour of posting about his adventure and he cannot/won't provide a picture of either the shredded tire or the eat up saddle bags.  

Personally, I think he really blew it up like he said -- but you believe what you want to.

But his story jives with some interesting points which are available which cause me not to want to recommend that Joe Ordinary List member be messing with high air pressures when mounting tires.

This is from a legal reference source:

============================

"BEAD FAILURES:

Tire bead failure explosions usually occur during the tire mounting process as a result of a latent design defect present in passenger and light truck tires. Most light truck and passenger tires employ a .037 inch weftless bead configuration which is subject to failure at pressures as low as 38 pounds per square inch. Low pressure explosions most often occur if the splice of the bead wire becomes impeded during inflation of the tire. This is commonly referred to as bead hang-up and has been documented in the patent literature, industry documents, and litigation since the mid 1950s."

============================

You will note that Barry REALLY REALLY hung his bead up with too low a pressure at initial mounting, then let it sit overnight to firmly cement that hung up condition in place then actually put the tire on his bike and rode it several miles to find a place with 125-175 pound air pressure available outside to users (kinda dangerous, don't you think to give Joe Ordinary access to 175 psi air when tires really can blow up at those pressures -- what were THEY thinking ??)

Barry's tire certainly meets the bead hang up requirement for a low pressure bead failure as he didn't unseat the bead, relubricate it and try afresh to pressure seat it in one continuous motion with sufficient volume & pressure.

===========================

Next, Alcoa Aluminum builds mag wheels and offers us some mounting hints to AVOID EXPLOSIONS.

"Do not use flammable solutions for tire and bead grease. Flammable grease could cause the tire to explode during inflation or driving, causing possible death or serious injury. Use proper tire mounting and inflation equipment.

An inflated tire can separate from the wheel and explode, resulting in death or serious injury. Use a safety cage for inflating tires."

===========================

Remember, Barry says he sprayed truck bed liner compound all over the the spoke heads on the inside of his rim trying to air seal them.  He admits some sticky bed liner overspray may have gotten involved in the rim area.

Not only did he cement his mis-seated hung up bead in place with an adhesive, he provided it with a volatile flammable gas source as well.  The solvent used in spray bed liner stuff uses propane and other very flammable items that are supposed to cure out in the open air.  Barry trapped this stuff inside his partially seated tire and gave it some time to migrate out of the solid black goo and intermix with the high pressure air trapped in his spoke sealed rim.  Then he jacked the pressure up and up and up and up and up and up and up.

              Pop goes the weasel ....

Now, why do I no longer recommend anything about tires to anybody?

Folks like Barry is why I don't make recommendations any more.

Even if Barry really is kidding us, there really are folks like "Barry" out there.

How dumb are people?  There are documented cases of people shooting ethyl either (starting fluid) into big truck tires that had lost their bead seal and flipping a match at them.  

               Pop goes the weasel ....


Don't play with them nasty tire irons, folks -- you could hurty yourself.


Oldfeller

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/09/08 at 16:30:49

I've seen them on TV, with a Biggo wheel & tire, squirt the ether in it & flip a match & Whammo, tire is on the rim. I've also heard of people messing with 18 wheeler wheels using the split rims & getting killed, because they didnt put it in a cage to air it up.
Every time my tire fails to climb the rim & seat fully, I let it sit a while, remove the Schrader valve, unseat the bead thats on & lube it up & try again. I start getting pretty worried at 60 PSI..I really dont like that much pressure.

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller on 09/10/08 at 03:29:58

The darkside guys follow a similar pattern on a tight tire, they air it up no more than 80-90 and if it won't go on they relax it by pulling the schrader valve (center valve in the air stem) and busting the bead seating connection all the way around the tire on both sides and relubing it grossly.  Then they try again.

The intent for the breaking free and relubing is that the slack that does exist in the bead fit-up has to be able to move around freely as the tire tries to seat the entire circumference of the bead -- if the bead seizes tight in any one location prematurely then the slack is not free to move and the tire won't seat.

This is the "hung bead" referred to in the post above.

It is not unusual for several air up/down, break bead, relube and try again cycles to be required as some tires are "tight" due to mgf variances simply stacking up the wrong way.  The bead stretches and conforms a little more each time until it finally slips on.





DO NOT PUT A CAR TIRE ON A BIKE RIM.  IT IS TOO DANGEROUS.

============================================

barry68v10 PUT A TA 155/80r15 ON THE BACK OF HIS BIKE, DROVE IT A COUPLE OF MILES TO A SERVICE STATION AND BLEW IT UP (that's exploded it for you who haven't heard yet) AT 175 PSI TRYING TO GET THE BEAD TO SEAT.  HE HAD SPRAYED TRUCK BED LINER ON HIS SPOKES TO SEAL THEM AND GOT SOME ON THE BEAD AREA.

HE DID DAMAGE TO HIS HEARING AND SHREDDED HIS SADDLE BAGS.

DO NOT TRY THIS MOD.

IT IS FORMALLY UNAPPROVED FOR LIST MEMBERS TO DO.

I FORMALLY RECANT THIS MOD AS IT IS TOO DANGEROUS TO YOU AND YOUR EARS AND YOUR HANDS AND YOUR EYES (AND TO YOUR SADDLE BAGS).


(signed)

Oldfeller

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by dropoutjohn on 09/10/08 at 14:47:59

now if you could get some MC spoked rims on a bug i would be IMPRESSED! just for cruising at the hot rod shows of course.

bobber style with no front brakes and drums on the back! (abunai!)

Title: Re: Drinkin' & thinkn'
Post by Oldfeller on 12/07/08 at 00:11:38

(for historical preservation since it will likely get trashed having been posted in the tech section and all)

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Tire goodrich 155/80-15
12/03/08 at 04:03:10 Alert Board Moderator about this Post! Quote
It's posible !  I just put a 155/80-15 GOODRICH  RADIAL TA   on the back of my savage.  No mods nessary...It seated at 76 psi  with half and half dishwashing soap, water.  I did bring it up to 50 psi to day befor and left it sit overnight to stretch a little.  If it were any bigger it would catch the bolt heads holding the crome things on the side of the fender.  There is about a half inch clearence on the belt side and three fourths on the high side,  there is almost an inch to the middle of the swing arm.  The only delima is "what about one side being raised white letter and the other side black letters?"
Though ya'll might use this information.  

The mitchlin 145r-15 I replaced needed over a 100 psi (guage only goes to 100) to seat and latter developed a BUBBLE  in the side wall.
Back to top      


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Re: Tire goodrich 155/80-15
Reply #1 - Yesterday at 22:08:08 Alert Board Moderator about this Post! Quote Modify Remove
Gasp!  Oh my goodness!

That's a car tire!  On the back of a motorcycle no less!  

Don't you know that isn't safe, that you will slide over on that thing just as soon as you try to go around a corner?

Grin   Grin   Grin

===========

Give us a ride report, oh you young fledgling Darksider you.  You must tell the story of "getting your hindbrain used to it" and the story of what a full lock emergency sliding stop sounds like.

Leaving your pressure jacked up over 35 psi can do some internal damage to a tire if it is left that way for very long.  50 lbs it certainly too much to leave that way for very long.

Don't forget to write down the date and your odometer mileage on the inside of your fender with a sharpie pen so you can eventually report how long and how many miles you got.

And for the rest of you, you who are going to put yet another expensive bike tire on the back of your Savage this summer, I have a special message for you from the founding father of the Darkside Boys

      yeah, ol' dangerous Freddy's singing to you again ......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMenB9Ywh2Q&feature=PlayList&p=4BF32CB8D7FA620F&index=0




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