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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Clymers vs Official
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Message started by noshow on 04/11/07 at 11:54:56

Title: Clymers vs Official
Post by noshow on 04/11/07 at 11:54:56

I am looking into buying a guide for my 2006 s40.

What is the difference between the official guide and the Clymer guide.

The Clymer's book seems to be cheaper by about half the price so does that mean it contains a lot less info?

Also I have seen another forum that had corrected info that the Clymer's may have messed up on....typos or whatever.

I am hoping to use one of them for just regular oil changes and small upgrades. Nothing fancy...unless later down the road I need to do my own repairs of some kind.

The Clymers website: $34.95

http://clymer.com/products.asp?Type=Motorcycle

And the official: $64.95

http://www.repairmanual.com/motorcycles/2006/62/0/18035/13577

Title: Re: Clymers vs Official
Post by Savage_Rob on 04/11/07 at 12:19:48

In my opinion, the Clymer is meant as a general maintenance handbook. For the purposes you've described, it's great (depending on the repairs down the road). As you've stated, it does contain errors. One of the worst is the direction of rotation to use when setting TDCC. It is definitely cheaper and it does not contain as much information as the SSM. Personally, I prefer the SSM but sometimes compare illustrations between the two books.

Title: Re: Clymers vs Official
Post by BOWDIER on 04/11/07 at 12:34:22

when are they going to update the Clymers, they only go to 2004, is there much difference in the 2004 vs 2006 savage.

Title: Re: Clymers vs Official
Post by Reelthing on 04/11/07 at 12:51:11

Sounds like the Clymers would fit the need you describe - you can find them around $25 includes ship on ebay and perhaps amazon

Title: Re: Clymers vs Official
Post by noshow on 04/11/07 at 12:55:40

I have an 06 but haven't seen any other model first hand.

What I can tell by reading this forum :

There is a passing function on the left handlebar of the 06 that the older bikes do not have.

Also the electrical might be a tad bit different. Such as a relay on the main headlight while starting up. (It doesn't turn on while cranking the engine.)

I believe I have read other slight differences but don't recall them right now.

All in all, maybe 4 or 5 things may have changed but all very low key. Such as the cushion on the seats....or maybe even the rails on the rear fender?

I had been making mental notes when I ran across something that seemed different....but now I forget.

They are still the same bikes outside of the name change of Savage to S40.

Title: Re: Clymers vs Official
Post by praetorian on 04/11/07 at 12:58:14

I got my Savage after sitting in a backyard shed for 5 years half torn apart.

Using a Clymer manual and NO experience, I was able to completely tear down and rebuild the entire bike....head, carb, electrical system, brake system, transmission, belt drive.....everything.

In my opinion, Clymer is the ONLY way to go. I haven't seen the "official" manual, but I can't imagine that it has anything that the Clymer doesn't.

Title: Re: Clymers vs Official
Post by georgekathe on 04/11/07 at 17:31:26

I have the Clymers - as was originally pointed out by another - Amazon sells it for about $25 - don't forget to take the free freight option @ checkout to save $3.50! I think the Suzuki manual, judging by other workshop ones, is more for the technically inclined - the Clymers works for me with every bike I've owned (or Haynes - the Clymers equivalent manual in England)

but like someone else says a mistake is the direction they tell you to turn over the bike to get TDC!

Title: Re: Clymers vs Official
Post by T140V on 04/11/07 at 18:02:00

The only time I by a Clymers guide is when I can't find an official service manual. The Clymers guide is good for someone who is just learning and knows nothing about the basics of turning a wrench or the machine they are working on. It's a very good book in my opinion if you fall into that catagory. However as a certified mechanic I just can't find what I need to do the job without an official service manual.

My certafication was in the mid 70's so my knowledge of emission controls is self taught. It is at times when I am working around these devices that I find having both manuals helps me a lot. The illustrations in the Clymers are very helpful but the technical data is sometimes missing or difficult to find.

The people on this web site seem to be packed with information so the Clymer's and this site will probably be enough for you.

P.S. I'm still a fan of the official service manual.

Title: Re: Clymers vs Official
Post by Greg_650 on 04/11/07 at 21:24:51

You mentioned this but I forgot to answer. What differences are you worried about if you can't get an '06 manual yet? A couple of wires colors are about all the differences that you'll find for your changes.

Either way, the Clymer won't be any more up to date than the SSM at this time...there is always a time lag in any manual.

If you don't plan to go into any depth with an engine rebuild, then get the Clymer. You'll save $15-20. On the other hand, (though I haven't confirmed it) if you get the SSM, you are supposed to be able to get updates for new pages as the are released. That is why the SSM comes in a hard cover 7 ring binder with removable pages.

More money or more info? The choice is still yours...

PS - get the Clymer :)

Title: Re: Clymers vs Official
Post by T140V on 04/11/07 at 23:12:26

I guess I should have mentioned I have an 06' Suzuki LS650 service manual and I own an 07' bike. The bar code on this manual is 99500-36087-03E. That's the code they used in the dealer's service and part's department. I don't see any real differences between 05' and 06' at a glance. :)

Title: Re: Clymers vs Official
Post by praetorian on 04/12/07 at 04:29:09

Like I said above, I just finished a complete tear apart and rebuild with the Clymer and it showed me everything I needed.

I must admit that I was a little offended with the statement that the Clymer manual is for someone who
T140V wrote:

is just learning and knows nothing about the basics of turning a wrench or the machine they are working on.

I'm not a certified mechanic, but I definately know my way around a shop and I sure do know how to turn a wrench.

Title: Re: Clymers vs Official
Post by Greg_650 on 04/12/07 at 07:07:54

praetorian wrote:

Of course. A good mechanic can use a Clymer as well. I think that what he meant is that an inexperienced mechanic shouldn't get the SSM. The SSM assumes that you have training.

My only "certification" is lots and lots of busted knuckles :P

Title: Re: Clymers vs Official
Post by T140V on 04/12/07 at 10:18:19

Greg_650 is right. I certainly didn't mean any offense praetorian. Since you are an accomplished mechanic the Clymers guide made it easy for you. A service manual would benefit a person such as yourself. If noshow wants to learn something about working on a " motorcycle" the Clymers Guide {and that's just what it is, a guide} would be a good starter book.

The Clymers guide will tell you how to find things such as crankshaft runout in a step by step descripion. The service manual will assume you already know how to do that and will only give you a measurement. I think it's really great you rebuilt that bike useing the Clymer's Guide. I'm just saying it would take me twice as long to read through the Clymers as it would to use the service manual. Sometimes the Clymers will put the technical data in with the discription and you have to go back and forth looking for the information you need at hand.

I have 5 or 6 Clymers/ Chilton guide's in my collection but I prefer the service manuals for quick referance. The LS650 service manual cost me $82.00 with the tax. I expected it to cost about that. The manual for my Ford pickup cost me $150.00, it has 5 books and is 6 inches thick. I wouldn't expect someone who is inexperienced to be able to use it. However the Clymers would be much thinner and involve one book. The Clymers can be very incomplete and sometimes down right wrong on their information.

Title: Re: Clymers vs Official
Post by Reelthing on 04/12/07 at 10:30:13

keep an eye on ebay as well for the Suzuki SSM - picked one up a clean for less that $20

Title: Re: Clymers vs Official
Post by Greg_650 on 04/12/07 at 10:31:29

$82.00 for the SSM? What parts am I missing?

Mine cost $42.00 in 2000. $40.00 is a big difference...

Title: Re: Clymers vs Official
Post by Reelthing on 04/12/07 at 10:38:40

and of course I don't get the updates on the used one but how many updates have happened in say the last 12 years :) not many

Maybe the extra $40 is for the update service?

Title: Re: Clymers vs Official
Post by Greg_650 on 04/12/07 at 10:55:05

Updates would at least include a spec. sheet in the back section for each year...I think.

I feel incomplete now >:(

Title: Re: Clymers vs Official
Post by praetorian on 04/12/07 at 11:09:37

T140V wrote:

I see what you mean now. I CAN say that there were definately times when I had to fight thru droning descriptions to get to the little bit of info that I needed in the clymer. I may have to keep an eye out for a SSM for my '96 Savage.

Title: Re: Clymers vs Official
Post by Reelthing on 04/12/07 at 13:51:53

Greg_650 wrote:

Updates would at least include a spec. sheet in the back section for each year...I think.

I feel incomplete now >:(

for the first time?

Title: Re: Clymers vs Official
Post by Rockin_John on 04/12/07 at 14:25:05

Just a side-bar, as the pos/neg of the Clymer's vs SSM have already been well covered... Someone else mentioned Haynes Manuals. Given my preference, I wish they had one out on the Savage.

I like Chilton's manuals for complete instructions and data.

The MSM (Master Service Manual) for anything is always nice; because it contains ALL the data.

Clymer's, as mentioned, is good for beginner maintenance, or those that only need a few tips here and there.

But I love Haynes manuals. They show and tell it all in both shade-tree and master mechanic readability levels. And the tech data is usually shown in more than one location: As you read through; or inset illustrative text box and/or pictures; or in addendum. Not only that, they often assume that you are working without factory tool#- @#$ - %&@#*!!!$$$ and they will show a way to complete the job without special tools. I've even seen cases where they show how to make your own substitute tools. Now THAT'S how a service manual for all levels should be written.

It was mentioned that Haynes manuals are from England. But I think maybe some are written and edited down-under, or from South Africa, as they show the kind of ingenuity and common sense once found in the U.S.A. (many decades ago).

Title: Re: Clymers vs Official
Post by Greg_650 on 04/12/07 at 14:26:49

Reelthing wrote:

for the first time?

Best I can remember :P

Title: Re: Clymers vs Official
Post by T140V on 04/12/07 at 22:51:37

$75.00 plus tax is the going price around here for the manual so I bought it from the dealer where I took it in for it's first service. The manual for my Triumph was $67.00 plus tax in 2004 and is a much bigger book. The updates are a quarter inch thick for the Savage. Unfortunatly I couldn't find an official service manual on ebay, all they had were Clymers.

The warranty is most critical on that first service. They are supposed to tighten every bolt on the bike. Funny thing is the exhaust bolts were loose when I came home. Sure am glad I have that book, the bike won't be going to anymore service departments accept my garage. ;)

Title: Re: Clymers vs Official
Post by sparkett on 04/13/07 at 07:57:24

I have both ;D the only difference i found is that the service manual has a better layout. The clymer's is good, but read the whole section FIRST!, they some times will walk you through and then say "dont forget to....." :o argggg, take it apart and add that step, then continue. not a problem, unless you waited 6 weeks for the gaskets. and bugger one up trying to back up a few steps!! :'(