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Message started by allan on 02/11/07 at 07:31:13

Title: Cam chain problem again??
Post by allan on 02/11/07 at 07:31:13

pulled the engine yesterday to replace clutch & inspect the cam chain, adjuster was out 17mm, So I went and replaced cam chain, after setting it all up again, would you believe adjuster was at 15mm, so yes some wear in chain, but on closer inspection and comparing with another rear slider the angle on the bracket at the bottom was different (the part that fastens to the adjuster) the one in my hand was stepped at 45 degrees on both angles whereas the one on the bike was more like 38, so it came apart again and put in the replacement slider (not new) set it all up again now have 4mm on adjuster, point I'm making it may not always be the chain as a check with the 21 link method and it is well within limits,

Greg 650 if you could do the honors with some pics.

Modds : if you think this should be in tech go for it.

allan.

Title: Re: Cam chain problem again??
Post by Greg_650 on 02/11/07 at 08:24:25

Ya know...sometimes the censors/filters on this site can be a real pain in the butt. I have spent 30 minutes trying to link my photo but it wouldn't appear. THEN the light came on! My filename included the standard abbreviation for for the word a_s_s_embly or a_s_s_y. Go figure.

This is the best that I have; with the tensioner removed.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/gmdinusa/ClutchAsy01.jpg

Title: Re: Cam chain problem again??
Post by Greg_650 on 02/11/07 at 08:37:14

Probably too late to ask, but can you put some mics or calipers on the chain guides and get a measurement?

Title: Re: Cam chain problem again??
Post by Kropatchek on 02/12/07 at 08:08:28

allan wrote:

Very usefull information.
As some of you know I'm reading the German forum frequently.
There's a lot of info on the camchain, too much to tanslate it all.
One of the things is that the measurement as mentioned in the WHB is rubbish; the chain is longer than the limit of 128.9 mm ( 5.07") and still with a new chain the tensioner is less out after replacement. Believe the wear takes place on the inside ( the side that touches the gears) and the rear slider.
Check also the following threads:

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=RubberSideDown;action=display;num=1168881604

And

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=RubberSideDown;action=display;num=1168956104

I'm still waiting for my kit from Germany.
But if you look at the German thread's pictures some smarta$$ ( no offense) can figure out how it works.

Greetz
Kropatchek ;D

Title: Re: Cam chain problem again??
Post by verslagen1 on 02/12/07 at 09:07:13

I think we're all guessing at what wears and the German tensioner mod fixes the problem, but does resolve the real issue.

allan said he changed guides and it went from 17mm to 4mm. And that there was a change in angle.

So, from this I take it that if the chain is over spec., then replace it. If not, then replace the guide.

I think the guide is not strong enough. And may need a better attachment to the tensioner.

Title: Re: Cam chain problem again??
Post by slavy on 02/12/07 at 10:17:24

I made some mod. to my tensioner- just made the part that slides out longer /welded about 1" extension/ and drilleed a new hole 12 mm ftom the old one . Now the cam chain tensioner is almost all the way IN. And No, I did not check how does it work, because the engine is still on the bench, waiting for a proper paper work for the bike where it will go.
If somebody wants a picture, just send me an e-mail and I'll send You back a picture.

Title: Re: Cam chain problem again??
Post by allan on 02/12/07 at 12:39:58

Greg_650 wrote:

Probably too late to ask, but can you put some mics or calipers on the chain guides and get a measurement?

sorry greg back in bike running again,
I have several rear sliders and apart from the one I put in the bike I have one other at 45 degree all the others are 30 something, jap enginerring definatly not precision.

Thanks for the pic.

allan.

Title: Re: Cam chain problem again??
Post by franch on 02/12/07 at 17:04:10

i have to admit i am not following this angle thing.

i know that on my 98 with 28k the rear guide had numerous cracks that allowed it to " flex" foreward too much.

Title: Re: Cam chain problem again??
Post by Greg_650 on 02/13/07 at 13:01:43

So, have we determined that the guides, and not the chain, are the primary reason for the incorrect tensioner length?

And the tensioner material becomes brittle?

I may have to open mine up and check. It's been a couple years, anyway.

Title: Re: Cam chain problem again??
Post by verslagen1 on 02/13/07 at 15:00:45

I'm thinking that if we at least add a guide (a pin in a slot) between the chain guide and the tensioner we will at least prevent the side load the causes the tensioner oval out its hole at end of stroke. And prevent the premature extension of the tensioner.

Several posts have claimed that replacement of the chain yielded the same (or little change) extension of the tensioner. and replacement of the guide fixes that.

I like the Idea of welding an additional material to the end of the tensioner and drilling a new hole. If we have to open the case to make the adjustment anyway, this is easy and economical. ;D

J. engineering is not bad, it's the dam bean counters we have to look out for.

Title: Re: Cam chain problem again??
Post by franch on 02/14/07 at 09:21:00

how much material would you add to the end of the tensioner ? or how much longer would you make it ?
this is an interesting concept.

Title: Re: Cam chain problem again??
Post by verslagen1 on 02/14/07 at 10:56:16

18mm is .708"

I'd consider adding about 1.5" with holes every .375"
And pinning the tensioner so couldn't come out.

But this depends on the clearance with the return run of chain amoung other things.

Then chain noise would mean it's time to adjust just like every other bike. Rather than engine stop :o

Title: Re: Cam chain problem again??
Post by Greg_650 on 02/14/07 at 13:22:35

I'm convinced. Not doing much right now.

I'm going in...