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Message started by Rockin_John on 01/12/07 at 00:17:44

Title: Sportster Seat Blues
Post by Rockin_John on 01/12/07 at 00:17:44

Well, I've been bolting things on here and there, and it looked like time to finally do the seat riser, and Sportster seat job. (The seat has been laying around here a few weeks awaiting it's turn).

(In the following paragraphs I describe a highly technicially prototyping technique called "bubble gumming.") ;D It means: To temporarily position things where your "think" they might be best suited, and build around them until you are ready to commit to their position on the final assembly.

So... I removed the old stock seat, and sit the Sportster seat on the bike with some rags etc.. supporting the front part of the seat in approx. the position it would be with the inch longer bolts and rubber bushings I bought to jack up the front bracket. Looks pretty good I'm thinking: (left click photo and select 'view immage' to see bigger picture)

http://www.catoosatrading.com/images/vehicles/cycles/my_ls650/P1100005.JPG

And though the new seat and position feels like it would be a considerable improvement over the torture that is the stock seat, it is still far from an ideal riding position for me. I'm about 5' 11" and 250 pounds of whoop azz ::) That's why the poor little Savage is named Ox, kind of like Mongo's ride in Blazing Saddles ;)

Anyone interested might notice the addition of fat pull-back risers, O-ring pegs, and a stock sissy bar- sans pad, since the Ox was last posted for viewing here. But please ignore the recently worsening oil leak at the cap-plug, and little puddle on the floor :(

I've stopped the installation process to think things over a bit before carrying on. I stepped back from the situation, and reconsidered earlier thoughts of going with a solo seat; since the wife has no desire to ride in any capacity any longer. Then I jacked the original seat up to a position where it felt like I needed to be, and this is where it was:

http://www.catoosatrading.com/images/vehicles/cycles/my_ls650/P1100003.JPG

That is about 3" up at the front, and 2" at the back. Part of the extreme height of the front is due to the "cupped" shape of the stock seat. If I could find a well padded solo seat (no ball busters) that sat more level, the position woudln't have to be so extreme I think. Also, I have an old musician buddy that I haven't talked to in years, who was in the auto upholstery buisness, and I was thinking maybe he could do something with the stock pan to make it into an acceptable seat.

One way, I end up with a chopper/bobber seat mounted up on springs, which makes me have to hide lots of wires etc... The other way, I'll end up on top of a very tall pad of stiff upholstery foam rubber...

Decisions, decisions... I may just have a Spotster seat for sale in the near future, maybe a stock one too...

Any helpful suggestions would be greatly appreciated... But no thanks, I don't want the controlls mounted farther forward, I'm not real happy about having forward controls in the first place.

Hmmm.....???

Title: Re: Sportster Seat Blues
Post by Island_Biker on 01/12/07 at 07:06:32

Person, from the pic, I kinda like the look of the raised stock seat.

Drop the rear seat & the back-rest and you've got a unique look there. You could also put springs under the stock seat and once you've got that part designed, you could create something like a small box to hide the wires.

I'm sure folks here who have really been creative with their seats will have better and more practical advice.

Title: Re: Sportster Seat Blues
Post by Island_Biker on 01/12/07 at 07:17:25

Just after I replied to this, I read
Pillion removal and fender cleanup (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=RubberSideDown;action=display;num=1168546546) which discusses solo seats.

Title: Re: Sportster Seat Blues
Post by verslagen1 on 01/12/07 at 09:11:16

I posted the last one in the series.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1161011205

I ended up with a higher seat position then stock.
I used the stock clip in the back to hold down the back, so I didn't alter the rear light and didn't need to move anything else.

Title: Re: Sportster Seat Blues
Post by Rockin_John on 01/12/07 at 09:33:51

Island_Biker wrote:

Just after I replied to this, I read
Pillion removal and fender cleanup (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=RubberSideDown;action=display;num=1168546546) which discusses solo seats.

Thanks for the link. Even though I'd used the search last night for ideas, that one didn't come up somehow.

Title: Re: Sportster Seat Blues
Post by Rockin_John on 01/12/07 at 10:03:17

verslagen1 wrote:

Thanks for the response. I found that post in my research last night, but I didn't fully understand what you'd done. Now I see that the Tee-bracket is a commercial item and not custom made. I'm liking the looks of the seat height for my purpose. I have 'many' questions about your install...

Is the Tee-brkt a house framing item or what? Where you get one? May I also ask for your source on the speed pins?

The rear tab is the front tab of the Sportster seat bent up and turned around right? Did you bend the D-ring on the fender down as others have done, or were you able to leave it original (high)?

Your Sportster seat looks to be the exact model as mine. I don't see that you made any allowance for the rectifier. You moved nothing? Your seat isn't down tight at the very back is it?

Removal of seat with yout install just requires pulling the pins and flexing the seat right? Then you have to bend the seat to get it back on correct?

I like your install the best of any I've seen, and if I do go ahead and use the Sportster seat, I'd like to copy it I think, so I'd appreciate any further help.

Thanks,

John

Title: Re: Sportster Seat Blues
Post by Rockin_John on 01/12/07 at 10:18:35

Island_Biker wrote:

Yeah, I'm thinking I'll eventually end up with a sprung solo seat. As you said, maybe based on the original seat pan. But the sissy bar has to stay, as I have plans for attaching something top-secret to it. (Que "Secret Agent Man" music!) Double Naught spy stuff don't cha know. ::)

But in the meanwhile, I may go ahead with the Sporty seat. It's here, and obviously more comfortable than being wracked on that torture device Suzuki calls a seat. The solo will requre more thought and parts searching/buying. Maybe even a Mongo seat recover for the stock pan, then I could have my YES/NO stitched on the back of "Ox" just like on Blazing Saddles ;)

Title: Re: Sportster Seat Blues
Post by Ed_L. on 01/12/07 at 11:36:28

I tried the '05 one piece classic gel seat from Suzuki to help the comfort level. Was a bit disapointed with it even with 1 1/2 inches lift on the front. Seemed the seat had a real saddle shape to it so I couldn't slide my butt back for more room. Just got a gel seat pad, think it was made by Pro-Master, which seems to fill in most of the low saddle shape. Tried a 100 mile ride and did notice a big improvement, of course it could of been because my wallet was $100.00 thinner, did I say I got it at the stealership?. :-/. Maybe sometype of a gel seat pad would help.

Title: Re: Sportster Seat Blues
Post by verslagen1 on 01/12/07 at 11:53:37

The Tee bracket is house construction standard from Home Depot. About 12" x 12". You'll need the 12" high, but you'll narrow up the T when you're through.

In front it rests on top of the standard tank bracket. Since this is a long, 1 piece seat I'm not worried about it lifting up. Besides there's no way my butt will grip the seat.

In back I used the bracket from the harley seat. Cut off 1 hole, mounted it on the seat pointed forwards, then cut the part hanging down so it does dig in the fender. And wrap with tape so it doesn't rattle on the fender loop or D-ring. I would have bent it only to tighten up the fit.

My seat had a recess almost perfect for the rectifier. During my bubble gumming, I put cut outs in the seat to match the frame and rectifier. Although I think I wasted a lot of time for naught as the seat sits higher. Make a trial fit, and use a router or dremel with a router bit to remove the interference in the seat. I ended up with 4 holes about the size of a 50 cent piece each.

Since I only rest on top in the front, removal is pull the pins, lift and push backward on the seat. Installation is hook the back, align the side tabs while lowering the front into place, reinsert the pins. Easy on/off.

The pins shown were stolen from my hobbie cat. I've since replaced them with surplus pins from C&H surplus in Pasadena. They had a listing on ebay for a selection of Pins. Knowing where it was, I ran down there and picked out what I wanted for a buck a piece. They're going to close in a couple of months. They have 2 different ones that will work along with sizes that could go from one side to the other. I going to use the black L handles ones, 1/4" dia x 1" pins but the grip is only 1/2". That's enough to lock on the tabs of the seat and still engage with the holes I drilled in the frame. I'll pick you up some if you want. Can't beat a buck plus shipping. Send me your email and I'll let you know how much and pay with paypall.

The seat doesn't sit real tight, but looks good with no visual gaps. As the pictures shows, everything is still hidden. I'll be glad to help anyway I can. If you need anymore info, I'll revise the website for all to see. I need to add the seat cutout pict's anyway. I could sketch out the bracket and add it too.

I haven't done a lot of riding lately, but it does feel good.

Title: Re: Sportster Seat Blues
Post by Rockin_John on 01/12/07 at 19:41:16

Ed_L. wrote:

Yeah, I found your and other's posts from back in 95(?) about several of you ordering classic and pillow gel seats from oneida Suzuki. I had been meaning to ask some of you for a long term report on the pillow seat with the buttons. It seemd a bit less curved down than the classic. But then I decided that was just a deception in the pictures I'd seen, and that probably neither of them had the shape I really needed. That was a dissappointment. A good shape, position, AND gel, might be a real blessing. I've looked at some of the add-on gel pads, and so far I haven't seen one that really attracted me. However, your reply and suggestions are appreciated!

Thanks,
John

Title: Re: Sportster Seat Blues
Post by Rockin_John on 01/18/07 at 11:15:27

verslagen1 wrote:

The extra instructions along with the pictures of your installation should get me through mine just fine. I've located some speed pins at a nearby hardware store, and the Home Depot here should have the same framing bracket as yours.

The only thing different I see that I might do, is that I already bought parts for a seat rise mod, and I may go ahead and raise the front bracket a half inch and then stick the framing bracket under there to have the seat hooked down on all four sides.

I much appreciate your taking time to further explain what you'd done. I'll probably document my install too for other's to see.

Thanks,

John

Title: Re: Sportster Seat Blues
Post by TVR on 01/18/07 at 11:42:34

Must be a see through seat. Pics are gone.

Title: Re: Sportster Seat Blues
Post by Rockin_John on 01/18/07 at 12:43:14

TVR wrote:

Must be a see through seat. Pics are gone.

His link still comes up with pictures for me:

http://hometown.aol.com/managwa/index.html

Title: Re: Sportster Seat Blues
Post by Rockin_John on 01/18/07 at 13:14:18

Well here's a bummer... The Home Despots in my area don't carry the 12" x 12" Tee Framing Bracket... Seems they may only be available is certain parts of the country... Like Hurricane areas! Gee we only get little old category 4-5 Tornadoes around here! So we only rate 8” framing brackets. ;)

So... I may need help getting the bracket.

verslagen1 ... I'm going to PM you about helping me with the parts here, since I know wherever you are they have them available. I’m good to go on PayPal to take care of $$$

Or you could just email me. My addy link over on the left is the real thing. Just put Savage in the subject in case it gets caught in my spam trap I'll notice it and fish it out.

Title: Re: Sportster Seat Blues
Post by justin_o_guy on 01/20/07 at 02:21:13

John, when I went to work on copiers my background was oilfield, where we "tore down & rebuilt" big pumps. After a few weeks of work orders for customers he told me in the copier bidniss it was "Disassemble, troublehoot, repair, reassemble"

Now, the "Bubblegum" works fine for me, but some folks might think more of your project if ya went with, ohh say,, "Mockup" or is that too close to what the result may be?
I don't know what a 12" Framing Bracket is, but if you tell me I have Lowes, Home depot, Tractor Supply, Sears. Harbor Freight, all in town. I'll see if I can find what ya need,

Title: Re: Sportster Seat Blues
Post by Rockin_John on 01/20/07 at 16:32:31

justin_o_guy wrote:

Thanks for the offer, but Verslagen has contacted me, and is already on the mission to gather and ship parts for me.

I also went from oilfield equipment then to heavy mining equipment and then to electronics tech and computer/network tech over my long working career. My term "Bubblegumming " was a Joke, though we did actually use the term while I worked as an engineering tech (working flunky/wrench for the degreed engineers).

During decades of working in shop and field, I took lots of college classes in 'spare time' and during lay-offs; eventually ending up with several computer, engineering and networking certifications and degrees. Hence, my writing style that can jump from the junkyard vernacular to laboratory geek-speak. I enjoy the ability to apply either terminology, though it is sometimes confusing to others.

Title: Re: Sportster Seat Blues
Post by justin_o_guy on 01/20/07 at 21:44:58

Heck, I fully intend on swiping "Bubblegumming" & using it during some of my projects,

Title: Re: Sportster Seat Blues
Post by verslagen1 on 01/20/07 at 23:07:00

Ditto, bandied about properly, it may knock some of the starch out of the a-holes. Besides, what kind of airs are we trying to put on here? I did visit the mud pie room before the bull dozer scrape it right off the map.