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Message started by theikeman on 12/17/05 at 20:55:22

Title: Nitrogen in your tires
Post by theikeman on 12/17/05 at 20:55:22

There has been a lot of conversation about using nitrogen in tires. has been done in airplane tires forever:

In 7 million miles of truck tire testing, nitrogen inflated tires lasted longer.
Tire failures were reduced by 50%
Tread life was increased by 25-30%
Fuel economy was increased by 5-6%

Improves steering
Improves handling
Improves braking
Reduces chance of tire failure

Dramatically slows pressure loss from permeation
Stabilizes pressure and virtually eliminates pressure fluctuations due to temperature change
Reduces tire oxidation
Eliminates interior wheel corrosion
Reduces running temperatures
Decreases false alarms and activation of Tire Pressure Monitoring Systems

So... here is the question, if car and truck tires can get all these benefits, how about us Motorcycle guys???
Any thoughts or input?
Thanks
Ike

http://www.whynitrofill.com/benefits.htm

Title: Re: Nitrogen in your tires
Post by Steve530 on 12/17/05 at 23:12:15

That's interesting. Air is about 78% Nitrogen. I guess it's the 20.9% Oxygen that's supposed to be creating the problem by oxidizing the rubber.

Steve

Title: Re: Nitrogen in your tires
Post by sluggo on 12/17/05 at 23:31:22

the sprint car drivers at the track i announce at mostly use nitrigon, as well as some of the tourning glasses.

i've never even thought about it till you mentioned it. ummm. i'll follow this thread closely. MAX, your thoughts

Title: Re: Nitrogen in your tires
Post by Kropatchek on 12/18/05 at 04:23:57

theikeman wrote:

There has been a lot of conversation about using nitrogen in tires. has been done in airplane tires forever:

And made mandatory by the FAA in 1978.
Just FYI.

Greetz
Kropatchek ;D

Title: Re: Nitrogen in your tires
Post by SavageDude on 12/18/05 at 11:28:54

theikeman wrote:

In 7 million miles of truck tire testing, nitrogen inflated tires lasted longer.
Tire failures were reduced by 50%
Tread life was increased by 25-30%
Fuel economy was increased by 5-6%

Improves steering
Improves handling
Improves braking
Reduces chance of tire failure

http://www.whynitrofill.com/benefits.htm

Interesting numbers
:). However, this is for 7 millions of miles of truck tires. How much is the cost of having pure nitrogen? We, Savage bunch, don't get that much miles out of our tires; so the cost vs. benefits is insignificant!
As for improving tires' performance, I don't think so ??? 30 psi of air is the same as 30 psi of nitrogen. I do agree with reducing chance of tires' failure because nitrogen's property is more stable than air. It sounds like this report is trying to convince the truck industry to buy some company's nitrogen-making equipment :-/

Title: Re: Nitrogen in your tires
Post by sluggo on 12/18/05 at 21:38:36

with the sprint cars it's a matter of the tire not expanding with nitrogen vs air. knowing the tire won't expand makes it easier to set stagger.

Title: Re: Nitrogen in your tires
Post by TBeck2000 on 12/19/05 at 09:37:10

According to Boyle and Gay-Lussac, Nitrogen-filled tires will experience the same pressure fluctuations due to temperature change that any other tire would see.

http://www.eco4wd.com/newsletters/n0305Web.pdf

P1 / T1 = P2 / T2 works.

Title: Re: Nitrogen in your tires
Post by klx650sm2002 on 12/20/05 at 03:02:53

The reason for using nitrogen is that it is dry (no moisture) "dry" air would work just the same.

Clive W :D

Title: Re: Nitrogen in your tires
Post by threezukes on 12/20/05 at 04:05:15

The dealer that I bought my bike from uses nitrogen in all the bikes they sell. Nitrogen is also suppose to be less effected by temperature, so the tire pressure stays almost the same when its cold or hot.

Title: Re: Nitrogen in your tires
Post by Kropatchek on 12/20/05 at 04:20:50

klx650sm2002 wrote:

The reason for using nitrogen is that it is dry (no moisture) "dry" air would work just the same.

Clive W :D

That's not the reason nitrogen is mandatory in aircraft tires.
The oxygen content in (dry) air can be explosive and also support a possible fire.

Greetz
Kropatchek ;D

Title: Re: Nitrogen in your tires
Post by Savage_Rob on 12/20/05 at 06:02:15

Kropatchek wrote:

That's not the reason nitrogen is mandatory in aircraft tires.
The oxygen content in (dry) air can be explosive and also support a possible fire.

Greetz
Kropatchek ;D

That was what I'd read for the reason for doing it... though the reduced oxidation of the rubber might also lead to fewer failures. I realize that oxidation is one primary factor in deterioration of organic compounds - including natural rubber but I'm no chemist so I don't know whether or not nitrogen could have a similar effect on various natural or synthetic rubbers. I just use plain old compressed air (though my emergency tire repair kit has CO² cartridges).

Title: Re: Nitrogen in your tires
Post by Max_Morley on 12/20/05 at 11:34:04

From the little I've studied it. Major reasons are less permation with resulting better tire life as they tend to not get low as often and less corrosion of the wheel. FWIW, on my M-I-L Sable the rim corrosion is causing problems with slow rim leaks. Would not apply to our tube type savages. From a safety stand point, I think it is better to take a look at the tire condition and check the tire pressure frequently on our bikes. Costco says they are using nitrogen on their tire fills now. So far Les Schwab, probably the biggest tire dealer in the PNW isn't using it yet, but who knows if they may start soon. Max Good news my B-I-L now owns an 88 Savage I brought back for him from Lopez Island, sold by Matt Cotten. It has one of Lancer's carbs on it and a echo can from a Sportster and seems quick the little I drove it.

Title: Re: Nitrogen in your tires
Post by Steve530 on 12/21/05 at 16:59:09

Kropatchek wrote:

That's not the reason nitrogen is mandatory in aircraft tires.
The oxygen content in (dry) air can be explosive and also support a possible fire.

Greetz
Kropatchek ;D

Oxygen is not explosive. It is, however, an excellent oxidizer. :)

Title: Re: Nitrogen in your tires
Post by sluggo on 12/21/05 at 17:56:37

i don't know much about nitrogen, but i do know that

ALL THE IRON IN MY BLOOD HAS TURNED TO LEAD IN MY ARSE. :o

Title: Re: Nitrogen in your tires
Post by Savage_Rob on 12/22/05 at 11:14:33

Steve530 wrote:

Oxygen is not explosive. It is, however, an excellent oxidizer. :)

Umm, try striking up a match in a room full of pure oxygen. Just let the rest of us get a block away first.

Title: Re: Nitrogen in your tires
Post by sluggo on 12/22/05 at 11:53:56

Steve530 wrote:

not explosive. It is, however, an excellent oxidizer. :)

i've tried that line on the wife after i've passed gas, that's my story and i'm sticking to it. ;D

Title: Re: Nitrogen in your tires
Post by Hammy211 on 12/22/05 at 12:54:20

Savage_Rob wrote:

Umm, try striking up a match in a room full of pure oxygen. Just let the rest of us get a block away first.

What would probably happen is the match would burn so quickly that it would catch the box you struck it on and you on fire. Then you would go up in a huge fireball as quickly as the match.

Title: Re: Nitrogen in your tires
Post by Savage_Rob on 12/22/05 at 13:08:05

Hammy211 wrote:

What would probably happen is the match would burn so quickly that it would catch the box you struck it on and you on fire. Then you would go up in a huge fireball as quickly as the match.

That's kinda my point. Oxygen is far from inert.

Title: Re: Nitrogen in your tires
Post by Steve530 on 12/23/05 at 18:06:06

Savage_Rob wrote:

That's kinda my point. Oxygen is far from inert.

Oxygen is far from inert, but not explosive.

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/mar2000/954424482.Ch.r.html

Title: Re: Nitrogen in your tires
Post by Savage_Rob on 12/23/05 at 22:54:34

Steve530 wrote:

Oxygen is far from inert, but not explosive.

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/mar2000/954424482.Ch.r.html

I'll buy that, though the rubber the tires are made from is likely a petroleum derivative. I really don't think the fire risk is that dire from a normal compressed air mix. If they were pumping tires full of pure oxygen, I'd think there was at least a greater risk of adding fuel to the flame of any other mishap. In any case, the oxidation factor is interesting. I wonder how much practical difference it'd make to us. I would think it's more important to tubeless installations as it would also tend to oxidize the metal of the rim.

Title: Re: Nitrogen in your tires
Post by Steve530 on 12/24/05 at 00:00:20

Yep. You need three things for combustion: fuel, heat, and oxygen. Air is about 20.9% oxygen. If you have an oxygen enriched atmosphere, then combustion happens more easily and more quickly than it would with just air.

I'm no chemist, but I don't understand why nitorgen would be better than air in tires. The nitrogen would probably have less water in it because of the way it's produced. Maybe that's the key.

Title: Re: Nitrogen in your tires
Post by lancer on 12/24/05 at 03:10:37

sluggo wrote:

i don't know much about nitrogen, but i do know that

ALL THE IRON IN MY BLOOD HAS TURNED TO LEAD IN MY ARSE. :o

I seem to have experienced the very same fate!

Title: Re: Nitrogen in your tires
Post by slavy on 12/24/05 at 08:01:01

If I have FREE AND EASY access to N I'd use it. It is dry, inert and almost doesn't react to temp. diff. These are the reasons to use it in the rear shocks of the bikes. The key point is FREE AND EASY. Untill then I am sticking with the poluted humid and not so perfect air. I just keep the correct tire pressure in the tires.