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Message started by vroom1776 on 09/21/05 at 09:44:24

Title: What grade of gas?
Post by vroom1776 on 09/21/05 at 09:44:24

Hey folks,

Just wondering what grade of gas everyone is using...

I run 87 95% of the time, at 5000 feet in Colorado, and occcasionally 91 so I get more flame on the backfires...

I also run 87 in my V*, but may try 85... the manual recomends the lowest grade you can run as long as the bike doesn't run like garbage...

not that I'm not sure what type to run... just curious...

Title: Re: What grade of gas?
Post by DavidV on 09/21/05 at 09:49:30

87 seems to run fine. There's nothing lower around here. Tried the higher grades, but didn't notice a change. Savage is 8.5:1 compression, so low test should be fine, unless you've got pinging.

Title: Re: What grade of gas?
Post by vroom1776 on 09/21/05 at 09:59:58

run like garbage = pinging :D

Title: Re: What grade of gas?
Post by Savage_Rob on 09/21/05 at 11:31:36

vroom1776 wrote:

You should do a search. This topic has been covered quite a lot and fairly recently too. I'd bet if you set the wayback for 60 days and search on "octane", you come up with something good... like maybe What grade of gas do YOU run? (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=RubberSideDown;action=display;num=1124040780)

Title: Re: What grade of gas?
Post by vroom1776 on 09/21/05 at 11:38:23

Sorry... Didn't remeber seeing it...

:-[

Title: Re: What grade of gas?
Post by sluggo on 09/21/05 at 14:41:50

i get industrial strength gas, after eating mexican. :o

for fuel i use what's cheapest. ;D and lots of it.

Title: Re: What grade of gas?
Post by mikedasavage on 09/21/05 at 14:46:01

it costs an extra 2 bucks to fill up the tank with premium and the bike runs alot better. not even two bucks more like 1 dollar. the prices difference is like 50 cents a gallon.

Title: Re: What grade of gas?
Post by babbalou on 09/21/05 at 18:14:28

I've been running 87 octane. The only time I get pinging is after idling for a long time at a traffic light in the summer, when I take off sometimes I'll here a couple of pings if I lug it. Tried 91, ran the same but no pinging anytime. Same with 89.

Title: Re: What grade of gas?
Post by savage777 on 09/22/05 at 10:34:22

I ran 87 one time and I could tell a big difference in performance vs. 89 ....couldn't tell the diff. between 89 & 91 so I stick to mid grade or 89

Title: Re: What grade of gas?
Post by mpescatori on 09/22/05 at 16:02:32

Here in Italy we only have 94 and 99 octane, at 1.30Euro and 1.35Euro respectively, with Shell selling 100 octane at an obscene 1.45 Euro so only those with Shell coupons buy any.
My own experience with cars is that if you fill up an _empty_ tank with 99octane you spend 4% more and get 5-8% better mileage and performance.
So for the long runs I'll use 99 octane, for city commuting I'll settle 94.
87-85 octane we call "farmer's tractor" fuel, used to be issued to the Army in the '60s but that's long gone.
Anybody tried kerosene? :P

Maurizio

Title: Re: What grade of gas?
Post by vroom1776 on 09/23/05 at 07:57:16

I though kerosene was for old lamps and washing your hands after... uh well, you know, going fishing. ::)

Title: Re: What grade of gas?
Post by slavy on 09/23/05 at 08:07:39

I wanted to see will I feel a diff and tried this and that. I couldn't tell. The Savage is made for 87 and this is what I put in. It is not the money-3gal. tank X $0.20 per gal. diff is $0.60 per tank, wich is less than a doughnnut /no cofee/ , this is not an issue. If I find one good reason to switch to "Super" I'll do it in a hart beat.

Title: Re: What grade of gas?
Post by torque on 09/23/05 at 08:25:27

i have a 98 and in the manuel it says to use 93octane,but i perfer 100 octane it burns cleaner and u can feel the difference.kerosene is less refined than gas it would plug the jets ,it would probably phuck the whole engine up!

Title: Re: What grade of gas?
Post by savage777 on 09/23/05 at 10:18:53

you could run kerosene in the engine if it was a diesel engine because it has a glow plug .its pretty common here in corn alley to see a 85%diesel 15% kero mix in tractors in the late fall/winter to thin the mix. But if you put diesel into a gas fired engine I dont wanna be there to see the smoke show (that is if you could even get it to start.) hey DIESEL >>>>any comments on this subject?

Title: Re: What grade of gas?
Post by diesel on 09/23/05 at 22:30:34

you bet! trucking company I worked for in Pa. back in 60's, starting in Nov till Apr. used a 50/50 mix. kreo and fuel. filters would not "wax" in "0" weather. he!!. a diesel will run great on french fry oil. it's being done. exhaust smells a da## site better too. no joke, da## straight. the other way around, a diesel will not on gasoline, mix in a little fuel oil and she'll run, but really terriable. BIG difference between a spark ing. engine and compression ing. engine. cheech! it's starting to sound like one of my theroy classes. sorry. diesel

Title: Re: What grade of gas?
Post by Greg_650 on 09/24/05 at 08:29:44

Use low octane.

Title: Re: What grade of gas?
Post by Starlifter on 09/24/05 at 15:27:13

I run high octane and still got some gas with water and debris like rust flakes in it from a BP station! >:(
...I believe that JP4 (jet fuel) is kerosene.

Title: Re: What grade of gas?
Post by diesel on 09/24/05 at 20:46:53

it is.

Title: Re: What grade of gas?
Post by mpescatori on 09/26/05 at 12:02:20

;D ;D ;D
Sorry, guys, when I said "kerosene" I was actually kidding... seems a few have bit on my bait!
OK, 1st round on me the day I come and tour the US on my Savage (not too impossible, I hve enough airmiles to freight +/- Noah's Ark!
As for French fry oil, I'll be for real and stop the joking for a moment.
It's a really big issue in Europe.
Imagine only 20 years ago diesel was one third the price of gas, now it's risen to 90% of the price of gas. Where does this put the haulers and the little truckers?
Well, the BIG haulers simply jack up the fares. The little guys have to survive. One trick is to mix rapeseed oil to your diesel - the IRS (local) will prosecute you for this, but if the percentage is less than 30% the rapeseed oil qualifies as an additive, not as a fuel.
A few Armies have tested kerosene in their diesel vehicles, in order to verify the big IF... IF it is possible to switch from diesel to kerosens virtually overnight in order to simplify the logistics and buy only one type of fuel at DOD level; ships run on kerosene, planes fly on kerosene, tanks will pound away happily on it, so this leaves us the HumVees etc.

Back to motorcycles and gasoline. The more pure the fuel (higher RON) the better it burns and the less gums/tars/residues left behind. My car is a 2.0 liter with 110thou miles and runs like a beauty.
On 94RON in city, 99 on long hauls

Maurizio

Title: Re: What grade of gas?
Post by Savage_Rob on 09/27/05 at 05:25:25

You mean something like the M1030M1 (http://www.m1030.com/military.htm)?

Title: Re: What grade of gas?
Post by Reelthing on 09/27/05 at 05:38:17

mpescatori wrote:

Seems to me some compare was being done between (r+m)/2 fuel rates and simple RON only rates -

91,95,98 RON is 87,90,93 (r+m)/2 fuel

http://www.whnet.com/4x4/octane.html

Title: Re: What grade of gas?
Post by mpescatori on 09/27/05 at 10:34:56

Guys, you mean something like this?
http://uk.royalenfield.com/app/UK/trip.asp?sID=781
http://www.winni-the-pooh.de/auto/enfield.htm
http://www.f2motorcycles.co.uk/enfielddiesel.html

I've heard the sound and seen the video, I admit they must be slow and a bit smokey, but HEY! 300 mpg on a 7HP 400cc bike?
Let's see if I can post this... no, I can't
Anyway, try
http://www.winni-the-pooh.de/auto/enfield.htm

Click on the Werbe-Video Royal enfield Indien, it's the TV commercial, you can actually listen to the diesel single thump along
If you're a man, you can kick-start your big single, but it takes a MAN to kick-start a big single with 18:1 compression !!!

Maurizio

Title: Re: What grade of gas?
Post by oatmeal on 09/28/05 at 08:01:38

I went looking for this info the other day. This is the best answer I found by FAR.

Quote:

Dear Cecil:

In this time of high gasoline prices, the Teeming Millions need your guidance (well, at least I do). What is the difference between premium and regular gas, and is this difference worth the extra money? I normally put premium gas into my car because I don't mind paying two or three extra dollars at the pump. Am I being scammed by the gas stations, or is the benefit to my car worth it? --Jeff, via e-mail

Cecil replies:

Not to introduce a radical concept, Jeff, but have you tried reading your owner's manual? If it says to use premium, my advice is to use premium. If it says regular, use regular. The fact that your note indicates no acquaintance with such matters suggests that you may in fact be a scam victim, assuming by this you mean "someone who believes what he hears in commercials." I have a hard time working up much outrage over this deception, since discovering the facts requires so little effort. If you don't mind paying the extra money for no reason, don't expect the oil companies to suffer any pangs accepting it.

In most of the U.S., regular gas has an octane rating of 87, midgrade gas is 89, and premium is 91 or 92. (Octane ratings are lower in the mountain west due to the effects of thin air on internal combustion.) Contrary to widespread belief, the octane rating doesn't indicate how much power the fuel delivers; all grades of gasoline contain roughly the same amount of heat energy. Rather, a higher octane rating means the fuel is less likely to cause your engine to knock or ping. Knock, also known as detonation, occurs when part of the fuel-air mixture in one or more of your car's cylinders ignites spontaneously due to compression, independent of the combustion initiated by the spark plug. (The ideal gas law tells us that a gas heats up when compressed.) Instead of a controlled burn, you get what amounts to an explosion--not a good thing for your engine. To avoid this, high-octane gas is formulated to burn slower than regular, making it less likely to ignite without benefit of spark.

The majority of cars are designed to run on regular gas, and that's what the manuals tell the owners to use. Higher-performance cars often require midgrade or premium gas because their engines are designed for higher compression (higher compression = more power), and regular gas may cause knock. If your car needs high-octane gas, the manual will say so.

Using high-octane gas in a car designed for regular accomplishes little except more rapid combustion of your money. Some refuse to believe this, claiming, for example, that premium gives the family Toyota better mileage or more power. These people are on drugs. Others say premium is purer or contains detergents that will cleanse your engine of uncouth deposits. Likewise misguided thinking--government regulations require detergents in all grades of gasoline. (BP Amoco, I notice, asserts that its premium gasoline contains more detergents than legally required; if you think that's worth 20 extra cents a gallon, be my guest.) Some automotive types claim that using premium in a car designed for regular will make the engine dirtier--something about deposits on the back side of the intake valves. I've also heard that slower-burning high-octane gas produces less power when used in ordinary cars. Believe what you like; the point is, don't assume "premium" means "better."

Occasionally you get some genius who takes the opposite tack--he spends an extra 10 or 20 grand buying a high-performance car, then decides he's going to save three bucks per tankful using regular instead of premium as specified. He figures as long as the engine doesn't knock he's OK. Wrong, carbon monoxide brain. Car engines nowadays contain knock sensors that detect detonation and automatically retard the spark to compensate. The delay means maximum gas expansion occurs when the piston is farther along in its downstroke and thus there's more room in the cylinder head. This reduces peak cylinder pressure, eliminating knock but also giving you less power and poorer mileage.

You may ask: Don't knock sensors make it hard to tell when an old car needs higher-octane gas? Years ago, when your beater started pinging on grades or under acceleration, that was the sign that carbon had built up in the cylinders, increasing compression, and it was time to switch to high-test. Now the knock sensors compensate, which seemingly might conceal the problem. Don't fret--today's fuel injection systems precisely meter the fuel-air mix, resulting in fewer unburned hydrocarbons and less carbon buildup. If you're still concerned, I'd say it makes more sense to spend $6 on a bottle of carbon clean-out juice than an extra $150 a year on high-priced gas.

--CECIL ADAMS

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/041008.html

Thanks, Cecil. That's some good information, I'm glad to have found it. (And to have been able to share it :) )