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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Shifting Chatter 1st to 2nd
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Message started by Clark Zellmer on 05/09/05 at 10:25:29

Title: Shifting Chatter 1st to 2nd
Post by Clark Zellmer on 05/09/05 at 10:25:29

I have had a Savage for three months now. It is my first bike. While I love the bike, the one thing that bother's me lately is the shifting from first to second and back. When I go from 1st to 2nd, it does not always go into 2nd on the first try. About 20% of the time I end up in neutral. It takes a really firm lift on the foot to get it to go into 2nd and often there is a chattering or ratcheting sound. Down shifting often gives the same affect of chattering and I cannot get it into 1st at all until I stop. Once stopped, I can usually get it into 1st, but not always without a real hard stomp down and rocking the bike fore and aft. Sometimes even then I am still in second when I start out again.

I began to think it was just my inexperience and lousy shifting ability until last Friday. I had the privilege to ride a Victory Vegas for 50 miles. There were multiple stops and starts due to the roads taken and it shift like magic. No false starts and no issue getting it into first, second, etc. Downshifting was easy and quite

Clark

Title: Re: Shifting Chatter 1st to 2nd
Post by RadarORiley on 05/09/05 at 10:29:30

I had this problem the first few times I rode my Savage and daughter says the same, changed to soft top boots for a few rides so I could "feel" the shifting and no longer have the trouble finding the gears. You have to think with your foot sort of. Don't know about the clatter though, neither one of ours do that.

Title: Re: Shifting Chatter 1st to 2nd
Post by Savage_Rob on 05/09/05 at 10:51:43

Clark Zellmer wrote:

Once stopped, I can usually get it into 1st, but not always without a real hard stomp down and rocking the bike fore and aft. Sometimes even then I am still in second when I start out again.

When you're stopped, if it won't easily downshift, let off the clutch a bit to allow it to partly engage/move and the pull the clutch back in and try downshifting again. Never stomp on it in this situation because you will bend your linkage and make downshifting more and more difficult until it becomes nearly impossible. I know because I did it. I have since replaced mine and carry a spare just in case. You may want to take a peek at yours to see if it has been bent yet.

Title: Re: Shifting Chatter 1st to 2nd
Post by Mr 650 on 05/09/05 at 11:00:34

Amen, Stomping = bending. :'(
01 650's shift linkage is Jap mystery/pot metal.
Down shift while in motion.
Been there done that. ::)
Got a spare now. 8)
PS: the early 86-87 linkage is bigger.

Savage_Rob wrote:

Title: Re: Shifting Chatter 1st to 2nd
Post by Clark Zellmer on 05/09/05 at 15:43:08

Thanks for the input.

The problem with down shifting in motion is that many times the ratcheting/chatter going from second to first is so bad that I don't want to force it. That is why I am waiting until stopped to shift to first. It almost sounds like I am griding the gears on down shift from 2 to 1. The other gears do not do this.

Clark

Title: Re: Shifting Chatter 1st to 2nd
Post by Mr 650 on 05/09/05 at 16:28:00

Hmmm the noise does not sound good.
Is this a new bike?

My bike's tranny was sorta stiff at 1st.
Your original post described similar condition on my bike. For the 1st 2k miles the 4-5 upshift was higher effort, but now w/ 5K+ (and switch to Mobil1 oil?) this problem is reduced such that I don't notice and perhaps the tranny has loosened up. It never crunched or chattered though, just required higher effort to fully click it.
Perhaps you are not getting good disengagement.
Hopefully you only need to adjust the clutch lever, if not the noise may require service.

Title: Re: Shifting Chatter 1st to 2nd
Post by Ed_L. on 05/09/05 at 16:39:43

What weight motor oil are you running, a thicker oil will help with the gears when downshifting. Check the clutch cable, they streach and will cause shifting problems. Baby the shifter, don't stomp on it. It is easier to drop the bike into 1st when rolling instead of when stopped. Ed L.

Title: Re: Shifting Chatter 1st to 2nd
Post by Clark Zellmer on 05/09/05 at 19:39:14

The bike is a 2001 with 2,600 miles. I bought it from a dealer that did an engine oil change so I do not know the weight of oil they used there. I assume the tranmission oil is separate and not changed. Is this true? What you everyone suggest for oil type and weight for the tranny.

Thanks

Clark

Title: Re: Shifting Chatter 1st to 2nd
Post by Reelthing on 05/09/05 at 19:45:35

The oil is shared between the engine, clutch, and gear box - you might want to give 20w-50 a go - you know thinking about - mine will clatter some time if i don't firmly shift it - not talking about stomping it just a solid, firm push and it doesn't

Title: Re: Shifting Chatter 1st to 2nd
Post by William E. Curry on 05/09/05 at 21:23:26

try preloading shift lever with a little pressure befor declutching.only way to shift old beemers,works quite well on wings,too. force of habit, I shift the Savage that way too, Savage shifts slick like that. does not have the clunk the wings have. especially 1-2 up shifts.

Title: Re: Shifting Chatter 1st to 2nd
Post by slavy on 05/09/05 at 22:23:41

Sounds to me like a clutch problem.The bike has low miles, otherwise I was going to suggest grooved clutch basket.

Title: Re: Shifting Chatter 1st to 2nd
Post by WD on 05/09/05 at 22:43:04

Too thin of oil. Never let a dealership "mechanic" service the machine again. They tend to be overfilled with the cheapest 10W40 the dealer has on hand. Trust me on that one, I work in an independent bike salvage/sales, parts store.

The "mystery metal" was used in 98 as well, my shift linkage snapped in the middle of a 2-3 upshift. >:(

Adjust your clutch cable, you are running with too much slack. I always adjust mine 1/32 of an inch TIGHTER than the book says to. Have only had to adjust the cable three times in 8 years, and those were in the first year only. The aftermarket/factory service manuals DON'T give ANY specs properly. They're close, but still not close enough.
-WD

Title: Re: Shifting Chatter 1st to 2nd
Post by Mr 650 on 05/10/05 at 14:51:36

I hammered my link straight and my bud TIG welded around it, then ground it back round.
It is still on there and now I got a spare.

WD wrote:

The "mystery metal" was used in 98 as well, my shift linkage snapped in the middle of a 2-3 upshift. >:(

-WD

Title: Re: Shifting Chatter 1st to 2nd
Post by red2k1 on 05/10/05 at 17:33:35

Agree completely with WD -- I have had the same experience.

Title: Re: Shifting Chatter 1st to 2nd
Post by Savage_Rob on 05/11/05 at 05:46:42

Mr 650 wrote:

I hammered my link straight and my bud TIG welded around it, then ground it back round.
It is still on there and now I got a spare.

While waiting for my replacement, I hammered mine back straight and slipped a small piece of steel tubing over it to strengthen it. If I'd had a torch, I would've brazed it in place. Since I didn't, I used plumbing epoxy putty and it is one strong bastard. I keep it the new one on the bike and the "rebuilt" one as an emergency spare.

Title: Re: Shifting Chatter 1st to 2nd
Post by yamawho on 05/12/05 at 16:43:46

I bought mine used from a dealer and had issues going from 2nd to 1st. I changed to Mobil 1 red cap last year and I also find it easier to shift while moving.