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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Time to buy? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1114723614 Message started by TVRacer on 04/28/05 at 14:26:53 |
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Title: Time to buy? Post by TVRacer on 04/28/05 at 14:26:53 The bike I have been looking at is now in my price range and I need your opinions before I pull the trigger :) It's an '87, not in the best condition, with corrosion on the engine covers. There may be a spot of rust or so on the front shocks. I asked the owner if it leaked/burned oil. He said only after it was hot out some breather tube. He also said "it doesn't burn oil unless you ride it 75mph and then it gets hot and burns oil, but that is normal". Come on, that can't be so??? He'll take $700. Is this just fine, knowing I'll have to put in another $800 or so? Or is this not fine? Just realize that I want to restore the thing and repaint. I do not mind the work. I do not want to spend more than an additional $800-$900. I am mechanically inclined, although have never had one of these engines apart. I can do the painting myself. I am concerned about any rust on the front shocks. I know little about shocks. I don't know if I can repair this, replace parts myself, or if this is strictly for someone with the proper tools. Am I wasting my time with such an old bike? Tom |
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Title: Re: Time to buy? Post by Paladin on 04/28/05 at 17:45:55 That's the one from CycleTrader in Gilroy. This is where we differ -- I would just take care of the internals and leave the externals ratty. Have you looked at the Bike? There's a Savage on eBay in San Francisco (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4545847707&category=6027), 45 hours to go, $1200 start, no bids. A 5-speed '97 with <12K miles. |
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Title: Re: Time to buy? Post by Lee on 04/28/05 at 18:26:46 [ There may be a spot of rust or so on the front shocks.] Assuming that you're talking about rust on the fork tubes, just be aware that rust pitting will continue to wear away at fork oil seals over time. Lee |
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Title: Re: Time to buy? Post by TVRacer on 04/28/05 at 18:42:06 Paladin, I am not in a position at this time $ wise to pay a possible $1200+ on eBay for a bike I won't have seen. I have not seen the Gilroy bike yet, but would before I was to buy. It is important to me to have the internals and the externals restored :) Is it better to buy an '87 for $700 or to pay $1200 for a '97? Lee, so my question would be, what would need to be done to repair or replace the rusted shock? Is it just a matter of going to Suzuki or eBay, buying another shock and installing with normal tools? And what would the cost be? Tom |
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Title: Re: Time to buy? Post by Lee on 04/28/05 at 19:42:44 [Lee, so my question would be, what would need to be done to repair or replace the rusted shock? Is it just a matter of going to Suzuki or eBay, buying another shock and installing with normal tools? And what would the cost be?] Hey, Tom. I don't know what the cost would be to replace the tubes themselves, but I just wanted you to be aware of the potential problem with fork pitting, etc. . If it's minimal, you may be able to get by with some judicious use of rust removal, AKA, naval jelly, etc. and 0000 steel wool. But if it's heavy rust or pittting, replacement of the tubes is the only way to avoid premature wear of the seals. Fork gaitors are a good idea as well, to avoid future wear and tear on the fork tubes! I kind of like the old school look of gaitors look, myself. Lee |
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Title: Re: Time to buy? Post by Oklahoma_Mike on 04/28/05 at 19:48:36 TVRacer wrote:
How many miles on the bike? 8) |
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Title: Re: Time to buy? Post by bobo383 on 04/28/05 at 20:39:37 People ask me this all the time, and it comes down to this: Do you like to wrench on stuff? If you like to wrench on things and work on the bike yourself, it's worth $700. I would buy it as I am in this category. If you are going to take it to a shop to have it fixed, you'll be better off passing on it. You will easily shell out more money than if you bought a decent on to start with. My neighbors are in this category. |
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Title: Re: Time to buy? Post by TVRacer on 04/28/05 at 22:27:25 Lee, thanks, very good info! Mike, 11,000 miles. bobo, yes I like to wrench on stuff. I like to take poorly maintained stuff and create something nice out of it. But sometimes, the parts alone cost more than it's worth. That's why I am trying to get an idea of some of the things I may encounter, like: 1) cost to replace front shocks 2) parts cost for top end. Are any of you concerned about the burning of oil the owner claims only occurs at higher speeds? Are any of you concerned about the fact it is an '87? Tom |
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Title: Re: Time to buy? Post by bobo383 on 04/29/05 at 04:38:33 I would buy it and watch eBay for the parts to come up cheap. I would not buy new for an 87. You could get other forks and front end from a totally different bike, like Londonthing has done. I'm with you on buying old stuff that needs work. That's my main source of enjoyment in life. HEY - can you take pictures and post 'em? |
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Title: Re: Time to buy? Post by Oklahoma_Mike on 04/29/05 at 04:51:46 TVRacer wrote:
My bike is a 86 and I haven't had it that long so I have no problems buying older stuff in decent shape on the burning oil thing is it visible at the clamed high speeds? I am just wondering how he knows it only happens at high speeds. ps mine doesn't burn oil at 70-75-or 80 miles an hour sustained 8) |
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Title: Measured the fork for ya Post by bobo383 on 04/29/05 at 05:26:15 The top tube of the fork where it goes into the triple clamp on my 98 Savage -- 38mm I think. I measured 1.492" with my dial calipers, which is 37.9mm by my Palm's conversion program. That should correspond to 38mm fork size. NOT the same as any other bke in my garage, but a quick ebay search gave me tons of cheap options - mostly dirt bike forks, but also Ducati, marzocchi, etc..... Ditto on the age - I would not worry about the age of the bike as long as it runs and drives, provided you like to work on stuff. I'm considering a $5000 1979 LowRider Shovelhead I found yesterday - runs, but needs cosmetic attention.. |
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Title: Re: Time to buy? Post by slavy on 04/29/05 at 08:48:36 About the oil consumption- yes it is truth. But if You need a bike to ride constantly with over 70mph- the Savage is not Your bike. 11000 miles are nor a reason to rebuild the top end. If You see the brearher tube routed out, not plugged in the air box- this is not good, but again You will decide is it worthed to rebuild. If it is me- I'd buy the bike, if everything is working will just ride it and fix the things "on the go". When the winter comes I'd start doing the bigger stuff. To rebuild the top end- piston kit /about $100/ , cam chain if it rattles /about $70/, 2 valve guide seals /between $2 and $ 7 /piece /, rubber cap /about $10 with the new prices/, clutch cover gasket /$13 /, head gasket/ i don't know the price, because I always reuse mine/. You will determine do You need an oversize piston with a bore job, or just change the existing one with "normal size". About the front forks- depending on the place of the rust it might or might be not a problem. If the rust is above the travel of the aluminum tubes- don't worry. If the rust is where the seals go You will probably have a leak. Good used forks are about $150 on eBay. If You buy the bike and You can not find forks, I have a pair of forks with new seals and oil, sitting and waiting for me to get in trouble. There are couple of other things- Is the bike running now and how often the owner is riding it? - what is the overall appearance?- the resale price is determined mostly by the outside - What is the condition of the inside of the gas tank?- this might be an issue in a long run. |
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Title: Re: Time to buy? Post by TVRacer on 04/29/05 at 09:39:52 You guys are soooo helpful, especially the pricing. I'm in a hurry as I need to leave for the day out of town, but just wanted to say thanks for all the help and any more opinions would be welcome. I'll reply to all your replies when I get back. I guess my only other thing I can think of is: what are the drawbacks of an '87 versus a newer model? Tom |
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Title: Re: Time to buy? Post by Paladin on 04/29/05 at 12:02:07 Check this message. (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1098969517;start=12#12) Your main drawbacks on the '87 versus a '97 would be not having to meet '97 smog requirements, a richer stock carb, a louder more open stock exhaust.... these are drawbacks, right? |
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Title: Re: Time to buy? Post by lancer on 04/29/05 at 16:34:16 Slavy, I'm sorry man, but I cannot disagree more about the Savage not being the bike to ride if you want to go more than 70 mph. As long as the bike is functioning properly there is no reason at all that it should not function at highway speeds plus. If it is bone stock then you will no doubt be limited to about 80-85, but if just a little has been done, like K&N filter/rejet/muffler, then it will cruise at 75-80 quite easily. Mine does. And since I had a few other things done it will cruise at 85+ easily. A 650 is not a LITTLE motorcycle. Keep in mind that the HUGE motors of today have not been around all that long. Anyway, don't sell the Savage short...it is a good motorcycle. |
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Title: Re: Time to buy? Post by Oklahoma_Mike on 04/29/05 at 17:47:52 TVRacer wrote:
My only real complant about having a 86 is the darn 4 speed. I think this bike is more comfortable with the 5 speed. My opition my preferance. I haven't riddin a 5 speed but an savy enough to tell the gearing is not ideal 8) |
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Title: Re: Time to buy? Post by lancer on 04/29/05 at 18:27:29 Actually, the Savage is just fine with a 4 speed since it produces plenty of torque. When they brought the Savage back in 95 the only reason they changed the trans to a 5 speed is for marketing. 1st gears, and the 4th on a 4 speed and 5th on a 5 speed are virtually identical. The gears in between are just an exercise in shifting. |
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Title: Re: Time to buy? Post by Oklahoma_Mike on 04/29/05 at 20:15:05 lancer wrote:
Lancer your bike is peped up from stock When I got mine a few months ago it was TOTAL stock and the 4 speed lugged with low to mid throttle the gears are a LITTLE to far apart for my taste as I said that is my opition and I am entitled to it. I almost did not buy this bike because of it. On the Plus side of it this bike has a broad torque curve that helps a great deal. I said that the gearing was not ideal and I don’t think it is. That doesn’t mean that it is horrible. Don’t read too much into it I am just saying I think I would like a 5 speed more, more options and options are good. 8) |
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Title: Re: Time to buy? Post by Greg_650 on 04/30/05 at 07:33:32 TVRacer wrote:
It seems like your price range is really more like $1500 (700 + 800) and if the bike needs that much work and you have doubts, wouldn't be better to buy one that won't require as much work? It also sounds like $700 might be too high....I think that I'd keep looking. Just my thought... |
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Title: Re: Time to buy? Post by TVRacer on 04/30/05 at 08:30:50 Hi, I'm back! Yesterday was a longgggg day, so I thought I'd wait until today to reply. bobo, should I get the bike, you bet I will post photos! Mike, the question about how he knows it only happens at high speeds is a very good one. I can't answer that, but my solution is simple...my extra $ to put into the bike will include at least a top end. Of course, I also have to ride the bike to check it out. Slavvy, most of my riding will be at 60-65mph. That's the info I was looking for regarding the prices. I will let you know about the forks! Paladin, helpful as always :) Lancer, :) Regarding Mike talking about his "d**n 4 speed" :D , can someone post the gear ratios for the 4 versus the 5 speed? Greg, great point re: the $. Here's the deal. I race Formula Vee. My car has been in the shop for close to a year (supposed to come home this next week so I can get it ready for the track), getting new rollbars and a whole bunch of other stuff. That's where my "fun" $ has been going. I do some extra "fun" work for my brother to pay for the motorcycle, otherwise I would not be able to buy one for another year. So: 1) I don't have the $1500 right now 2) I want to tear the bike down and restore 3) I want to refinish each piece, one at a time in my spare of spare time. :) So I can get the bike now, take my time and get it back to top condition, painted the way I want it, and end up in the end paying $1500+, or I can wait a year, then buy a bike for $1500+, and STILL have to put more $ into it since it will also be used. Now here's the key, if I do buy a bike that's in great shape from the get-go, I won't take it apart and I won't end up painting it the color I really want it to be. For me, there are 3 parts of joy to having a motorcycle: 1) riding, 2) restoring/customizing (I don't mean full-out customizing, I mean making the bike just the way I like it) 3) sharing the whole experience with others. If one of the parts is missing, it takes away from the whole experience. I contacted the owner last night and if he contacts me back, I will go to buy :) One more point Greg, after looking at prices for older Savages, it seems to be a fair price, perhaps a tad too much, but since the bike is in my area and that saves me ALOT of time (which = $ to me), that saves me enough $ to bring the cost down to what I think is the correct price. PS. My brother (Hi Bro!) likes to buy vehicles in great operating condition, and doesn't enjoy having to do repairs to bring it up to good condition. I do enjoy that, as I can tell some of you here live for that experience, others of you don't :) Tom |
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Title: Re: Time to buy? Post by Greg_650 on 04/30/05 at 13:17:23 TVRacer wrote:
Ah, just the Devil's Advocate here. I understand. After all, I just came in from 5 hours of wiring on a bike that I have totally disassembled and redone. Though I bought it new, I'm changing everything with the exception of the tank and color....for example, there are no plugin connectors under my seat anymore. The only connectors are on the devices themselves....the entire wiring harness has been redone with new wires and cable wrap and all connections are soldered with heat shrink tubing. I also know that in these forums, I've heard a lot of people having difficulties with a bike that was used and abused. But then the average rider isn't nearly as mechanically inclined as you, so therefore this may be just the project bike you need. I was just offering the caution....Go for it. |
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Title: Re: Time to buy? Post by bentwheel on 04/30/05 at 13:31:18 TVRacer, this sounds like the perfect bike for you. $700 is a good price IMHO. You gotta get it. |
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Title: Re: Time to buy? Post by shawn_b on 04/30/05 at 14:35:35 Hey man that so cool that your buying a savage 8) I have a 2000 and i love it ::)Good luck shawn |
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Title: Re: Time to buy? Post by WD on 04/30/05 at 16:33:27 I bought my 98 brand new. Within a couple months of purchase, I was modifying it. If you love to tinker, a used Savage is a good toy to play with. -WD |
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Title: Re: Time to buy? Post by TVRacer on 04/30/05 at 20:11:18 Thanks guys! We'll see how it goes! I will report. Sounds like most everyone here is an equal-opportunity Savage owner, meaning '86, '03, S40, they're all OK! PS. Greg, a devil's advocate is a good thing in this case :) Tom |
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Title: Re: Time to buy? Post by TVRacer on 05/11/05 at 19:23:38 Well, I was all excited early this morning as I couldn't wait to take a picture of my "new" bike on my trailer on the way home. But I was just dreaming, as I went to take a look at the '87 today and it needed wayyyyy too much attention, so I turned it down :( Paladin, yep, the one in Gilroy that was for sale for $999 or $995. The seller said he would take $700. So if anyone is looking for a fixer-upper that needs almost all the chrome replaced and all the aluminum needs extreme attention, let me know and I'll get the seller's # to you. Oh, Gilroy is in California, for those who are not in this state. Tom |
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Title: Re: Time to buy? Post by Paladin on 05/11/05 at 19:47:38 Horridly weathered, looked to be missing the left driver peg, but how did it run? Would it make a good beater bike? |
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Title: Re: Time to buy? Post by TVRacer on 05/11/05 at 21:45:44 The kid who's selling it had it on consignment at the Gilroy Cycle Center, but decided to take it off consignment as it wasn't selling at the higher price. But the bike is being kept there at the shop. It hadn't been started in some time. The mechanic at the Gilroy C. C. charged up the battery and it didn't take too long to start up. Sounded nice, quieter than I thought. That's all I can say about how it ran. I didn't ride it (and here I have been looking for one to ride) as I felt badly enough about getting the kid's hopes up without adding a ride to it and THEN telling him no. Beater bike, I'd say yes. But if you are serious, we can talk and I can tell you all the things that need to be done. The belt was fine, the tires were SHOT! Tom |
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