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Message started by Greg_650 on 11/01/04 at 06:05:25

Title: That "mysterious" electrical system
Post by Greg_650 on 11/01/04 at 06:05:25

The harness routing on a Savage looks like this....from the Suzuki Service Manual

http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/harnessweb.jpg

Title: Re: That "mysterious" electrical system
Post by Greg_650 on 11/01/04 at 06:07:44

And in a "real time" photo, it looks like this... ::)

I left the regulator on the fender...

http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/harness01web.jpg

Title: Re: That "mysterious" electrical system
Post by Greg_650 on 11/01/04 at 06:09:31

But if you want to chase a wire color though the harness, you'll need this....

http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/SavElectweb.jpg

Title: Re: That "mysterious" electrical system
Post by Greg_650 on 11/01/04 at 06:21:34

And Suzuki went through a lot of trouble to hide the safety switch "double" diode so that you can't bypass the side stand, nuetral, and clutch lever interlocks.  It is wrapped in tape.  The little blue wire going into the right side of your rear engine case near the clutch lever comes all the way to the tank....

The little bit of red that shows in that large electrical connector is where I bypassed the clutch lever switch  :o

http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/Harness02web.jpg

Also, while we're at it here is the nuetral light switch connector under the tank...
http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/BlueWire01web.jpg

Title: Re: That "mysterious" electrical system
Post by Greg_650 on 11/01/04 at 06:31:43

And if you wonder what's inside the starter unit or you need to change the brushes...it just takes 1 cable, 2 bolts to remove it and 2 bolts to open it up.

http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/Starter1web.jpg

Title: Re: That "mysterious" electrical system
Post by Greg_650 on 11/01/04 at 06:41:00

And the cables for the charging/ignition system go from under the seat...BETWEEN the battery and airbox...along the frame cradle...behind the front pulley cover...and end up here...not easy to get to on a stock bike.

http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/Stator01web.jpg

Title: Re: That "mysterious" electrical system
Post by Greg_650 on 11/01/04 at 06:53:11

And the moving parts of the charging/ignition system are nothing more than rotating magnets.  This is the rotor.  This induces the current flow in the alternator windings and also triggers the ignition pickup for a spark.

In blue is the painted mark at 3:00, which is when the engine is at TDC on the compression stroke.

http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/Rotor01web.jpg

Title: Re: That "mysterious" electrical system
Post by Greg_650 on 11/01/04 at 06:59:03

This is the timing mark with the cover in place.  Not really electrical, but it is related to timing...

http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/TDCMark01web.jpg

Title: Re: That "mysterious" electrical system
Post by Greg_650 on 11/01/04 at 07:05:14

And while we're on the subject...here is a crude tool that I made with scraps of metal for removing the plug to view the timing mark. †I've thought about patenting this †;D but the real reason I show this is that if you ever crack the plug by using a screwdriver and hammer...you'll wish you had this.

http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/Tool01web.jpg

Title: Re: That "mysterious" electrical system
Post by Greg_650 on 11/01/04 at 07:58:49

This is the voltage regulator/rectifier under the passenger seat...and there is brake light modulator too, which attaches with double sided tape.

http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/RegRectBackOffweb.jpg

Title: Re: That "mysterious" electrical system
Post by Greg_650 on 11/02/04 at 05:55:33


klx650sm2002 wrote:
Can the ignition pickup be unscrewed and slotted for more advance ?

Clive W  :D


Probably with a little machine work and ingenuity.  It could be moved experimentally, yes.  However the real problem is access while experimenting...the cover gasket also contains its own adhesive and can be installed only once.  Once heated, the gasket is ruined when removed.  There goes $20....

Having a mechanism for external adjustment would be much better.

Title: Re: That "mysterious" electrical system
Post by Greg_650 on 11/03/04 at 02:49:03


Sgt_Mike wrote:
Hey Greg;
What is the purpose of the brake modulator? I know what modulators are suppose to do, but why for the brake light? Also where is the best place to buy a shop/repair manual?. In the JC Whitney catalog I saw a small unit 1"X 2" that turns the brake light into a strobe light when the brakes are applied. A good idea?


There are many modulators for the brake light, and the one in JCW probably is similar.  The purpose is to be seen, especially if you are sitting behind another vehicle at a stop.  This causes the light to blink in different or irregular patterns...even some cars have this feature for the 3rd brake light.  There are even bulbs that plug into the socket that do the something similar (my spouse has that one).  The Back Off unit is probably the best known unit.

Manual?  A Clymer manual.  Amazon.com, Wal Mart, Barnes & Nobles, and the dealer.  But I have a Suzuki Service Manual that I bought from the dealer.

Title: Re: That "mysterious" electrical system
Post by Sgt_Mike on 11/03/04 at 05:08:55

Greg;
Great display and super info. Thanks for taking the time my friend.
Does the Suzuki manual include diagnotics and trouble shooting of the electrical system? Do the after market manuals offer a comprehensive diagnosis as good as the Suzuki manual? Thanks. Have a good day.

Title: Re: That "mysterious" electrical system
Post by Greg_650 on 11/03/04 at 05:51:34

The Suzuki Service Manual is a real shop manual designed for the trained motorcycle mechanic.  So the info is complete, but probably not the "lead you by the hand" kind of manual as the Clymer.  The manual is technically detailed for all Savage years, but for example, when it explains how to do the complete engine teardown, it sort of assumes that you'll know how to do the reverse operation and put it back together.  So, it isn't for beginners.

It is also a 7 ring loose leaf binder type manual so you can remove or add pages and costs about twice what the Clymer does.  Since there are 2 Savages in our stable, I chose this manual.

Title: Re: That "mysterious" electrical system
Post by Greg_650 on 11/03/04 at 13:28:57


slopoke wrote:
Greg, I'm a real novice when it comes to mechanics, so forgive me if this is stupid.....
but, WHY do you take apart your bike every winter????

Slopoke


Not stupid, and most people think that I'm the one with the problem anway.  

Why?  Don't know, it's just a hobby.  I've been taking things apart all my life.  I used to take things apart on my Dad's car and hope he'd never find out.  It didn't matter what.  An old appliance, an old stereo, or an old engine. Just to see how it works, and I've always been challenged by the idea of putting it back together in working order too.

Another example....My clothes dryer died not long ago.  I was sure it was a broken belt, but I had never ever been inside a dryer before...let alone one that was 18 years old.  I couldn't see the broken belt but I had a hunch what it looked like.  I found a replacement belt at an appliance store...it took me one hour start to finish and my dryer is running fine now.  Cost me $15.  No experience, no book, just what I like to do.

But getting back to bikes...if I can't really enjoy riding my bike in bad weather, then what I really enjoy is wrenching my bike in bad weather....and when I take it apart, my little mind is going "What if"?

Simple enough?  ;D

Title: Re: That "mysterious" electrical system
Post by Greg_650 on 11/03/04 at 15:42:00


rkutzner wrote:
My S40 Factory Service Manual is on order.  If it is ANYTHING like my Z400 manual, you will find it a TON more complete than any Clymer or Chilton type could ever be (in the last 20 years I have used them, they have usually left me wanting more information during a project).  And the pictures in my Z400 FSM are INCREDIBLE.  I found it a non issue to tear the top of my engine apart and put in a high compression piston and intake cam in my Z cause the manual was so complete.  

Same goes for my 2001 Jeep Service manual and 1992 Ford Mustang FSM, no Chilton or Clymer can touch them.

As ALWAYS, you get what you pay for, get the FSM !!!  ....and a good torque wrench, always torque everything to spec.


Your exactly right...for people like you and I.  I do plan to "pop the top" on 2 Savages this winter....

But that is what I try to explain to people because most riders only want to know how to do their own maintenance, but not their own overhauls.  They would like to understand the engine better, but have no intention of putting a micrometer on their conrod journal.  I understand that, and so I tend to try to dissuade them from the SSM at it's higher price and consider the Clymer instead.

That way they won't blame me for money spent incorrectly.  Then if they decide that the need to know more, they also know their options.  Besides, I understand that Clymer recently updated their manual, so it might even be better.

Title: Re: That "mysterious" electrical system
Post by Greg_650 on 12/11/05 at 07:34:29

 
Yep, wiring harnesses can be a head scratcher, but the best tool is just a simple digital multimeter. †That combined with a little bit of basic DC theory, and it can be figured out. †At least for testing a component like a switch or bulb.

I guess the challenge is for something like a rectifier, because then you need a schematic since it is actually a "source" of power. †Without one, those harnesses are a real pain because wires go in, and you have to know where they "come out".

Title: Re: That "mysterious" electrical system
Post by Eclipse on 08/18/17 at 20:44:38

Hello I'm new here could someone email me that savage wire diagram above the page please to omar_derr@hotmail.com

Title: Re: That "mysterious" electrical system
Post by verslagen1 on 08/18/17 at 22:01:57

there's 1 available currently, the rest are being held hostage.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1294779818

Title: Re: That "mysterious" electrical system
Post by Sad Savage on 09/17/17 at 10:01:47

Hi Greg,
This is what I am facex with, and figure if's my first step to get this baby running again.  Thanks for the diagrams, they will definitely be a help!  For more info on this bike read the introduction for Sad Savage.  Any recommendations on where to start or what not to do will be greatly appreciated!  Thanks in advance.

Title: Re: That "mysterious" electrical system
Post by danyboy on 04/24/22 at 06:02:17


7144535169000306360 wrote:
And in a "real time" photo, it looks like this... ::)

I left the regulator on the fender...

http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/harness01web.jpg

According to your photo, looks like I'm missing this Decomp controller which is dead center in the middle of you harness picture, little black box connected to the white connector. I tried zooming in but not sure how many wires and their color.

Title: Re: That "mysterious" electrical system
Post by ThumperPaul on 11/12/23 at 17:44:35

Hi Greg.  Awesome job detailing and describing everything.  I'm waiting for my Clymer's manual, but I think you've got it beat with your photos.  I sold my manual when I sold my last S40 and wish I didn't.  While I wait, I have a question.  

My 2005 S40 is leaking oil from where the wires come out of the case from the stator/magneto.  Does that space normally have oil in it?  I remember when I opened the timing plug to do a valve lash and I seam to remember a little oil.

I'm trying to solve my oil leak where the wires come out.  Can I just replace the "plug or grommet" or whatever, or is my leak coming from more internal?  Thanks in advance if you get this!  I see this topic is almost 20 years old.  I'm probably supposed to put this in "rubber side down".

Title: Re: That "mysterious" electrical system
Post by verslagen1 on 11/12/23 at 18:21:16


1C203D25382D3A18293D24480 wrote:
My 2005 S40 is leaking oil from where the wires come out of the case from the stator/magneto. †Does that space normally have oil in it? †I remember when I opened the timing plug to do a valve lash and I seam to remember a little oil.

yes, there's oil usually up to the hole while on the kickstand.

Quote:
I'm trying to solve my oil leak where the wires come out. †Can I just replace the "plug or grommet" or whatever, or is my leak coming from more internal?

the plug/grommet is molded or the wires are passed thru before the connectors are attached.
usually the wires are pretty tight and don't leak there.
you probably have to pull the cover and apply rtv on the plug.

Title: Re: That "mysterious" electrical system
Post by ThumperPaul on 11/12/23 at 18:57:34

Thank Greg.  The prior owner tried to bandage it with some kind of silicon or  rtv.  It failed.  I didnít think there was that much oil passing through that area with the stator and magneto.  It seems like the stator would drown.  Iíll probably end up pulling off the cover and exploring.  Thanks again!  Appreciate your time to reply!

Title: Re: That "mysterious" electrical system
Post by DragBikeMike on 11/13/23 at 19:21:53

Some of the aftermarket stators have some sort of funky insulation that splits easy and doesn't like any sort of sealant. †I suspect its Teflon. †Once the insulation splits, oil runs through the stranded conductor and leaks like crazy. †I haven't figured out how to fix it. †One of these days I'm gonna mess around with it and see if I can replace the wires without wrecking the stator.

This one only had about 4K miles when it bit the dust. †:'( †

Title: Re: That "mysterious" electrical system
Post by ThumperPaul on 11/14/23 at 06:46:08

Great pic and description, Mike!  Thanks.  Mine is a mess.  After cleaning up in the area, it appears my leak is at the bottom from the generator gasket.  That said, my stator wires have a big wad of silicone or rtv doped up in there.

I think whatís really puzzling me is the volume of oil behind the generator case.  I thought that was a relatively dry area.

Title: Re: That "mysterious" electrical system
Post by verslagen1 on 11/14/23 at 08:30:54

the starter also has a drain hole above the pulley.
anything that drips on the starter will drain there.

Title: Re: That "mysterious" electrical system
Post by ThumperPaul on 11/14/23 at 12:40:30


687B6C6D727F797B702F1E0 wrote:
the starter also has a drain hole above the pulley.
anything that drips on the starter will drain there.


Anything the drips ďon the starterĒ.   The bike recently had the starter replaced.  Is it possible that if incorrectly installed, it would cause a larger volume of oil in there?  The oil drip has virtually stopped now that the bike has just been sitting and not running.

Title: Re: That "mysterious" electrical system
Post by verslagen1 on 11/14/23 at 15:18:19


3F3338500 wrote:
Just installed a 35mm ID x 3.5mm thick x 42mm OD o-ring. Fit very snug, had to tap the starter in with a hammer, I'm sure it won't let any oil through. Will ride the bike in the next few days and update this.

This is McMaster part number 1302N604. They are sold in packs of 25 pieces, so if anyone runs into the same trouble, let me know, I'll mail you an o-ring. I have 24 pieces left. †;D


Title: Re: That "mysterious" electrical system
Post by ThumperPaul on 11/14/23 at 15:37:12

Starter possibly missing o-ring?  Hmmm.  Thanks for the pointer.

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