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General Category >> Technical Documents/Reference >> Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
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Message started by Greg_650 on 10/31/04 at 04:54:55

Title: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Greg_650 on 10/31/04 at 04:54:55

Where does the leak start?

There is a plug/cap in the headcover/camshaft cover, that is right above this cylinder nut.

http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/CylinderNut01web.jpg

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Greg_650 on 10/31/04 at 04:59:03

The part that you want to get from the dealer is called a cap (but it plugs a hole).  It is for access to the front right head nut.  The picture at the dealership looks like this....

http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/CylinderHead01web.jpg

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Greg_650 on 10/31/04 at 05:05:38

To fix the leak, you will have to do this.  Remove the headcover....

Nope, this is not staged.  My spouse got her nails dirty and did this herself....I just held the camera.

http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/JMD04Repair01web.jpg

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Greg_650 on 10/31/04 at 05:09:27

To remove the headcover, you should use a manual because you will remove all these bolts.  They are different lengths and some have seals or "gaskets" under them.

If you can, print this on 8 1/2" X 11" paper and tape it to an empty box....

BTW - the L65 bolt + nut and the L70 bolt are ones you want to pay attention to when you remove the headcover.
 
http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/HeadPattern01web.jpg

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Greg_650 on 10/31/04 at 05:14:31

This is where you are going in the cylinder head.  This is what the seal (plug/cap) looks like all cleaned up.

There are 2 types of plug/cap on the dealer's parts shelves.  (In the last couple years a newer one has become available).  This is the older style one.

http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/HeadPlug01web.jpg

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Greg_650 on 10/31/04 at 05:25:47

These are the parts you MAY need.  There are gaskets under some bolts.  There is an o-ring, too.

You only need a thin layer if high temp silicone sealer, but you must clean the surface real well first.  No scraping or gouging either.

Poke holes in the box to keep your bolts organized.  

When reassembling the headcover to the head (with the fresh sealer) the L65 bolt + nut AND the L70 bolt should be in the headcover (they come off with it, and go on with it).  They cannot be installed after the headcover is on the head.  If not, you'll end up removing it, cleaning it again, and starting over.  So don't forget, like I did once  ::)

Also, don't forget the o-ring and the stainless screen in the oil breather....AND use a torque wrench on the bolts.

Total work time?  As little as 4 hours.  Good luck.

http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/HeadCovSeal01web.jpg

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Greg_650 on 11/01/04 at 05:09:00

Thanks Susan.

I forgot to add this one.  This is what I posted on a website in 2001, and no one could help me.  So I decided to learn how to fix it.

It also got me started on a few other mods :o

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/215/215131/folders/156030/1293140Why@6700web.jpg

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Sgt_Mike on 11/05/04 at 06:44:19

By the way. Does that mean that the new & improved plug has corrected the leak issue at that area? Also if this was/is a chronic complaint has Suzuki given assistance to correct this customer concern?

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Greg_650 on 11/06/04 at 04:08:14


Sgt_Mike wrote:
By the way. Does that mean that the new & improved plug has corrected the leak issue at that area? Also if this was/is a chronic complaint has Suzuki given assistance to correct this customer concern?


Well, I dunno....see, the head nuts are sort of located in 3 different ways.  The right rear stud is the longest and goes all the way up into the headcover.  The left ones are shorter and completely dry out by the spark plug.  So in trying to understand why they all aren't the same is a little difficult.  It has to with the design of the overhead cam and the cam chain tunnel, I guess.  But if they were all long, then you'd have to pull the engine to get to the head off.  This way, you don't, therefore a plug is needed over the right front nut.

I don't know if the new design plug is better or not.  I have a new one and my spouse has an old one, and neither are leaking.  However, the newer one does seem more robust.

Personally, I think they leak because of carelessness.  In the area of the plug there is usually a bunch of accumulated road crud around the nut.  It gets in that air passage around the nut, and anyone that's been there knows that it is just gritty and needs to be cleaned out.  This is where I think it starts.  People retorque the head nuts, don't clean the surfaces well, and just poke the plug back in the hole when they're done.

I also think that it starts with that first initial dealer service....at least that is what I believe caused both of ours to leak.  I'm not certain about mine, but I'm very certain about my spouse's.  When my spouse's leaked, and I went back in there, I found that her plug was only partially pushed in the hole.  In fact, it was c_o_c_ked on an angle and that tells me the leak was started by the dealer's mechanic.

Also, on the 3 different engines that I've repaired, none ever had any sealer on the plug.  Why not?  The headcover gets sealer, so why not the plug too?  So with that I always use a bit of sealer around the plug when I replace it.....and altogether, I guess that I've removed the Savage headcover about 8 times for different reasons on different bikes.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Kropatchek on 11/06/04 at 05:47:32

Why is't there any sealant on the plug??  :-[

It's NOT in the Suzuki workshop manual.


That's why the dealer mechanics don't apply it.


We know better!!

greetz
Kropatchek


Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Greg_650 on 11/06/04 at 07:10:25


Kropatchek wrote:
Why is't there any sealant on the plug??  :-[

It's NOT in the Suzuki workshop manual.


That's why the dealer mechanics don't apply it.


We know better!!

greetz
Kropatchek


That's true.  It tells you to seal the headcover, but not the plug.  Of course, if you don't correctly install the plug it's gonna leak anyway.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by khill on 04/07/05 at 13:17:46

Thanks for this thread Greg -- I am planning to dive in this weekend and try to fix my leak.  My manual specifies 'Three Bond No. 1216' to seal the cylinder head cover -- but I am having some trouble locating it.  Is this what people are using, or is there an equivalent?

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Savage_Rob on 04/07/05 at 14:15:40

I was planning to use Permatex/RTV Gray.  Is that appropriate?

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Reelthing on 04/08/05 at 23:41:31

The permatex I used was high temp - red I think

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Paladin on 04/09/05 at 01:47:34

On the 460 Ford we used Permatex Aviation form-a-gasket sealant.  I figure if it is good enough for an air-cooled aircraft engine it should be fine on a air-cooled bike.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Greg_650 on 04/09/05 at 07:29:10


Paladin wrote:
On the 460 Ford we used Permatex Aviation form-a-gasket sealant.  I figure if it is good enough for an air-cooled aircraft engine it should be fine on a air-cooled bike.


Is that the old Permatex that I used for sealing cork valve cover gaskets, years ago?  The kind that turns hard?

You want to use the RTV Silicone Rubber type.  And you use it very very sparingly.  The head cover surface is supposed to be very flat since it is actually 1/2 of the cam shaft bearings too.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Paladin on 04/09/05 at 10:49:53

As far as I know the Avaition grade does not turn hard.  The mechanic who worked on the 460 prior used silicone, which leaked.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Reelthing on 04/10/05 at 22:18:16


Reelthing wrote:
The permatex I used was high temp - red I think

It's not red it's copper color
Permatex Ultra Copper high temp rtv silicone
http://www.permatex.com/products/prodidx.asp?automotive=yes&f_call=get_item&item_no=81878

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Savage_Rob on 04/11/05 at 06:07:41


Reelthing wrote:

It's not red it's copper color.
Permatex Ultra Copper high temp rtv silicone (http://www.permatex.com/products/prodidx.asp?automotive=yes&f_call=get_item&item_no=81878)

Both exist.  I actually have three types at home - all three are high temp.  Red, gray (http://www.permatex.com/auto/autouh.asp?automotive=yes&f_call=get_item&item_no=82194) and ultra copper (http://www.permatex.com/auto/autouh.asp?automotive=yes&f_call=get_item&item_no=81878) (kind of a rust orange in color).  I was actually planning on using the gray because when reading the labels, I noted that certain types are recommended by different manufacturers.  It seems like I remember the gray (http://www.permatex.com/auto/autouh.asp?automotive=yes&f_call=get_item&item_no=82194) as having the Suzuki endorsement.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Savage_Rob on 04/22/05 at 17:36:31

I used the gray Permatex, which was actually the color of the original sealant on the valve cover anyway.  The whole process was pretty straightforward except for the end when the bolt broke off in the cylinder head.  However, I think the bolt was pre-stressed and is hopefully not a normal occurrence.  That's another story in progress though.  Greg's suggestion to print out the bolt layout and taping it to a cardboard box is excellent advice.  I would not do it any other way.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Oklahoma_Mike on 05/28/05 at 23:25:45

Just wanted to say thank you Greg and all. This thread helped me fix the oil leak I had. IF anyone needs it the new plug part number is 11145-41b01  8)

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Savage_Rob on 06/02/05 at 11:20:36

I didn't see it in any of the instructions above (and if I just missed it, my bad) but be sure you set the engine to TDCC before removing the cylinder head cover.  This is not the same as a valve cover; the rockers are built onto it.  You need to have the pressure removed before removing it.  I know I didn't even give it a thought.  I was thinking about replacing a plug - not messing with the valves. I appear to have been lucky but it's not good to have to rely on luck.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Clark on 07/03/05 at 20:39:27

What should the torque be on the bolts for the headcover?

I have the Clymers manual and a print out of this thread.  I tried fixing the leak today.  I must have misread the table in the book because I twisted off two bolts torquing them to what I thought was the correct values.  I may have also stripped several of the others as I was trying to get to the correct values.

I have a torque wrench and was using it for the operation.

My hope is that I can remove the headcover again and get to the broken bolts without removing more of the engine.  I may have to get the mechanic at work to put helicoils in .

I have new bolts on order and will replace all initially.

I need the proper torque values before I go farther.

Thanks

Clark


Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Reelthing on 07/04/05 at 20:51:23

6 to 8 lbs but I'd bet 5lbs would do - it doesn't take much - I use small stuff 1/4 in drive and a 3 inch 10mm boxend - be sure your at tdcc

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Savage_Rob on 07/05/05 at 06:51:04

That may not be as uncommon as you'd normally think.  I twisted one off myself while using a torque wrench set at 7 lbs. before it reached that torque.  Luckily, after removing the cover, there was about 2mm of bolt protruding.  That was just enough to barely grab with longnose vise-grips and turn it out a bit at a time.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by bentwheel on 01/04/06 at 14:44:05

I want to add a couple of more tips when replacing your cap/plug. Once the head cover is removed, take several Q Tips and clean the threads. Some of the wells may be filled with oil, so you have to remove the oil to prevent a hydraulic lock later when you torque the bolts. On some of the deeper wells, use a pipe cleaner. It is also preferred to have dry threads so you can get an accurate reading on your torque wrench.
When you apply the Permatex, use it in a very thin line. The majority of the sealant will be squished out when you seat the cover and torque the bolts. I loaded Permatex into a syringe (without the needle) I got at a pharmacy. The syringe allows you easier leverage on the plunger and is quite accurate for getting into tight areas of the head.

http://www.bikepics.com/pics/pics/suzuki-savage-86-bikepics-495268.jpg

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by rokrover on 01/05/06 at 08:42:51

 
And just one more tip - be careful with the O-ring in the head cover.  If you clean the recess and use a new one it easily falls out so should be "glued" in place with a little tacky gasket cement.  That way it will stay put when fitting the cover back on.  


Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by MacAttack on 05/24/06 at 08:57:42

I used grey Permatex. Biggest thing I missed the first time was Have the motor at TDC on compression, so there's no tension on any valves. Otherwise, the bolts go in fine, but they feel tight when they're not.  Also make sure the oil screen is all the way inside the head cover - I pinched mine a bit.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by w6k on 10/25/06 at 22:21:52



       I always use a product called Never sieze on the head bolts. It allows them to torque down without binding and makes them easier to remove also. Much less likely to break one off.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by djpennin on 03/01/07 at 11:09:02

I did this FIX about 4 years ago.  Then i sold my savage, bought a custom harley chopper, bought a buell, sold the chopper, and now just bought another savage... funny full circle.  

here is my documentation from my 1996 that i did.  

Pictures that go along with the instructions are at:

http://photos.yahoo.com/djpennin

Instructions on how to change the head seal plug
Approx time: 2-3hrs (that's how long it took me, and i'm a newbie)

PICTURES are at:

http://photos.yahoo.com/djpennin


-remove seat
-unscrew 10mm bolt on left side
-unscrew 10mm bolt on right side
-pull seat off
-remove left side cover
-remove screw
-pull off cover
-disconnect negative battery lead
-remove screw
-turn gas petcock off
-remove gas line from tank
-remove speedo cable
-unscrew from engine
-pull out speedo cable
-remove breather tube
-pull off tube from carb on right side of bike
-remove rear two 10mm bolts from rear of tank
-pull tank up and back and disconnect electrical plug
-remove left side chrome cover
-unscrew 10mm bolt from back
-unscrew 10mm bolt from front
-use needlenose pliers to hold nut through fins
-remove cable that goes to solenoid
-loosen nuts that hold cable
-pull off cable from head
-remove spark plug wire from plug
-remove right side chrome cover
-unscrew 10mm bolt from back
-unscrew 10mm bolt from front
-slide right side chrome cover back and remove tube
-remove chrome cover
-unscrew solenoid left side 10mm bolt
-slide solenoid up then replace bolt to hole solenoid up
-this gets the solenoid just far enough out of the way to reach screws below
-disconnect solenoid plug
-remove 10mm bolts from head cover
-DO NOT REMOVE THE BOLT that is on the right side
closest to where you removed the big tube
-remove the bolts in a orderly fasion from one side
to the other to even the stress on the head cover
-dont forget the 10mm bolt that are under the valve timing cover
-dont forget the other 10mm bolt under the other cover as well
-remove the engine mount
-unscrew the three 12mm bolts
-remove cover
-pull off head cover
-clean any sealant that is on head cover
-REPLACE your HEAD SEAL !!!!!!!!!!!!!
-apply sealant to your head cover
-NOTE when putting the head cover back on be sure and place that bolt that is
upside down into the head, and also that very center bolt. I place those
bolts on the head cover and taped them on so they wouldnt fall out as I
put the head cover back on.
-now do everything in reverse to put it all back together
-ENJOY


Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Greg_650 on 03/21/07 at 13:25:48


w6k wrote:


       I always use a product called Never sieze on the head bolts. It allows them to torque down without binding and makes them easier to remove also. Much less likely to break one off.

Have you ever seen the instructions in the SSM?  I was surprised when I read it...

They tell you to use a drop of oil on each stud when torquing the nuts.  It works too.  The idea is to lube the nut and copper washer so they will sort of "settle" into place without galling when torqued.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Kropatchek on 03/22/07 at 08:12:16

Yep, tha's called "wet" torque as oposed to "dry" torque.
Wet gives you a more precise torque value as the frixtion of the thread and washers is less.

From the B757 MM. :D

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Savage_Greg on 11/13/07 at 15:02:15

I'm adding this note to this topic as a warning.

I know that we are often tempted to use different sealants, but Do Not Use the "MotoSeal® 1 Ultimate Gasket Maker Grey" sealant when installing the headcover.  
 
I picked up this stuff at Shucks Auto Supply (Parts America) and may be available at Auto Zone, etc too.  It claims to be specifically designed for bikes and watercraft.

I tried this stuff as an experiment because it is easy to apply.  It may work on engine cover gaskets, but it will not seal the headcover.  It becomes hard and begins leaking fairly soon.  

Using the High Temp RTV (or Suzuki Bond) is still the best sealer to use.

PS - Rob has informed me that the Permatex® Ultra Grey® Rigid High-Torque RTV Silicone Gasket Maker works just fine, so don't confuse the 2 sealants because the names are similar.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Reelthing on 11/15/07 at 12:37:32

"MotoSeal® 1 Ultimate Gasket Maker Grey"  
 
It's claim to fame is being gasoline proof once cured - say on the older carbs where the drain plug removes - if you strip that out this will do a reasonable job sealing it up.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Savage_Greg on 11/16/07 at 09:18:34


Reelthing wrote:
"MotoSeal® 1 Ultimate Gasket Maker Grey"  
 
It's claim to fame is being gasoline proof once cured - say on the older carbs where the drain plug removes - if you strip that out this will do a reasonable job sealing it up.


Maybe, but not on the headcover.  Every bit of mine began leaking all the way around (I had all kinds of oil woes, didn't I?)...it is also harder to remove than the RTV type.


Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Digger on 06/25/08 at 20:04:55

I also would not recommend ThreeBond Liquid Gasket 1104.

It seals good (the guy at the Suzuki dealer recommeded it), but it's a real bear to remove.

I have had good luck with the Permatex Ultra Copper (http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_makers/auto_Permatex_Ultra_Copper_Maximum_Temperature_RTV_Silicone_Gasket_Maker.htm)

It's never let me down!

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Savage_Greg on 07/30/08 at 09:18:51

I'm happy to say that I've got about 2K on my last rebuild (new piston, rings, etc) and I just changed to a synthetic oil with the new break-in, too.  

I used a high temp RTV sealer that was black this time.  The entire head cover and plug are dry.  Not a drop...

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Savage_Amusement on 04/08/09 at 17:41:17

While in doing this is it also a good time to get a new cam chain and install it? Or does it need to be torn down further yet?

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by verslagen1 on 04/08/09 at 17:58:08

All you got to do is take the primary gear off (one big ass bolt)
and the cam sprocket off (2 little bolts)
to get the chain from here.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by matt_savage on 04/20/09 at 11:13:02

I just did this fix hoping that it was my plug cap that was leaking.  Got all the bolts out no problem and the head cover came off with minimal prying.  Sure enough, the plug cap was the old style-like a cup and came was just sitting there over the hole.  It was sort of thingy-eyed and I could even see the head cap nut under it next to the exhaust port by looking down!!  Needless to say, I put a layer of silicone sealer on the new one and hammered it into place w/ my trusty rubber mallet.  That thing AINT leaking anymore!  Everything went back on correctly but I still need to do a valve adjustment and adjust the decomp solenoid before I fire it up.  

p.s.  Best piece of advice I could give anyone attempting this fix is to just go for it and be thorough!  The paper template of the bolts on the head cover taped to a cardboard box worked perfectly and none were mixed up going back in.  I didnt see any signs of bolts snapping off, mainly cuz it looks as this was the first time the head cover had EVER been removed from my bike!  It also helps to have small hands and my rather large hands made getting a few of the bolts in and out kinda difficult, but got it done none the less.

-Matt

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Savage_Amusement on 04/20/09 at 13:41:22

Also another quick piece of advise may be to give the reassembly a couple of dry runs before you put any sealer on it. That way you will know which bolts will need to be installed before you put it back on. (meaning if your doing it while the motor is still on the bike) There is one in the middle on the top that is long and it has to be in there before you put it back on or there isn't enough room.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by matt_savage on 04/20/09 at 14:05:39

Yup, that bolt in the middle has to be in there before you put the cover back on the head or else it wont fit.  I made the mistake of forgetting to put the oil breather screen in the cover when I put it back on the first time.  The sealant got a little smeared when I pulled it back off but I think it sealed it up fine when I torqued it down after putting the screen back in.  Another trick is to use a nickel along with a pair of vice grips to get the timing plug out of the left side stator cover.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by MikeG on 06/21/09 at 17:18:46

So I did not bother with TDC because I was not touching the timing chain or any of the valves, right? So I replaced the plug w/sealer and put everything back together.  Now, when I try and start the bike the starter turns the motor over but will not say run by itself.  I engine is getting fuel as far as I can tell (I pried it).  Any thoughts, or am I better just trying again? thanks

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Digger on 06/21/09 at 22:15:33

FYI:

Here is the P/N of the new style plug:


http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/HeadCap-1E.jpg


Here is a top view of the new plug:


http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/HeadCap-2E.jpg



Here is a bottom view of the new plug:



http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/HeadCap-3E.jpg

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Digger on 07/09/09 at 20:42:23

Just for comparison's sake, here is what the old-style plug looks like (the plug in the photos is used, and has some residual copper-colored gasket sealant on it):


http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/HeadCapOldE-1.jpg



http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/HeadCapOldE-2.jpg


IHTH someone!

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Digger on 07/16/09 at 19:15:57

When installing the cylinder head cover, the FSM says to tighten the cylinder head bolts "diagonally."  Clymers says the same thing, but adds to tighten the bolts in the middle of the cylinder head cover first.

With this vague guidance in mind, here is the bolt tightening order I've arrived at after removing and installing the cylinder head cover a few times (loosening order (e.g. when removing the cylinder head) will be the reverse of the tightening order):


http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/HeadCoverBoltTorqueOrder-1E.jpg


http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/HeadCoverBoltTorqueOrder-2E.jpg


My methodology was to start with the inner-most bolts and move diagonally as much as possible.  This is just the pattern I have been using.  Your way most likely will be better, please share if so.

I torque these bolts using a 0-200 in-lb beam torque wrench in three stages (snug, half-torque, full-torque).

IHTH!

Title: A Variation on Head Cover Bolt Torque Order
Post by Digger on 05/15/10 at 17:18:48

You may have noticed that, in the above post, I did not consider torquing the bolt that goes in the top left hole in the pictures.

This is because that bolt is also used to secure the left decorative chrome head cover.  With that cover in place, some of the other head cover bolts would be hard to access.

However, if you don't mind going through a little extra trouble, you can torque the head cover in a more complete fashion.

Here is what I used to take the place of the decorative head cover - a stack of washers:


http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/LS650/HeadCoverSpacerE.jpg


I just placed a bunch of washers on the bolt.  This allowed me to torque the bolt down properly.

After the gasket sealant used on the head cover was cured, I removed the washers and installed the left decorative chrome head cover.


Here is the torque order I used with the extra bolt in play:


http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/LS650/HeadCoverBoltTorqueOrder-4E.jpg


IHTH someone!

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by verslagen1 on 09/12/10 at 18:39:37

the number refers to the length
"C"  are for the chrome covers, install later.
l65+nut is the one that's installed upside down
* gets a rubberized sealing washer.
the L70 gets installed before putting the cover on if you're installing in the frame.
http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/HeadPattern01web.jpg

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Digger on 10/16/10 at 20:40:49


617265647B7670727926170 wrote:
the number refers to the length
"C"  are for the chrome covers, install later.
l65+nut is the one that's installed upside down
* gets a rubberized sealing washer.
the L70 gets installed before putting the cover on if you're installing in the frame.
http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/HeadPattern01web.jpg



Ver,

Re that diagram:  I've always wondered what they mean by "Yellow bolt" in the text on the right.

Also, in that same text area, is "L75 : Chroming bolt."  Try as I might, I can't find a 75mm-long bolt in the diagram.

Ideas?

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by verslagen1 on 10/16/10 at 21:15:24

The only clue I see to chroming bolt is as I said, for attaching the chrome covers later.  Which are 3 sizes, 20,25 & 65.  so I assume it's a typo.

Yellow bolt may be a special bolt to match thermal growth in that location.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Rocket on 01/18/13 at 06:40:27

I am trying to renew the head gasket and the gaskets under the head cover as well as this plug cap to stop leakage down the left cylinder fins.  

Was hoping to be able to do without taking entire engine out of the frame, but am having trouble getting the head cover off the head due to low frame clearance.  I'm thinking that if I loosen and remove the bottom front three frame bots, that might allow me to let the engine swing down and inch or so between the frame,and give me the extra inch I need to slide the head cover off the valve train.  Anyone tried this as an alternative to pulling the engine?  (By the way, my frame is more basic, as this is a Ryca Cafe conversion)

:-/

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by verslagen1 on 01/18/13 at 06:57:32

If you're gonna take the head off... bite the bullet and take the engine out.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Rocket on 01/18/13 at 08:50:39

Thanks for the frank advice.  You know I didn't want to hear that!  The engine has been out before, when I did the Ryca conversion.  It is hard to get out of the frame without scraping the frame, and that is my primary reason for not wanting to remove it, I have a nice new paint job on the frame.  Second, I find it really annoying that they'd make a single cylinder motorcycle that wont'd allow the head to come off without pulling the engine.   Rocket  

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Rocket on 03/07/13 at 09:07:42

I'm doing a head gasket and replacing the cap.  With a new head gasket, at what milage will the head need to be retorqued?  (Pain in the you-know-what, as most of the work is in gettting down to and removing that head cover!)

Advice appreciated.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Dave on 08/27/13 at 13:17:50

[split] [splithere] (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1377625598)[splithere_end]

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by terpfan1980 on 10/06/13 at 17:23:05

Possibly stupid question, but hopefully not.  My 1998 LS650 continues to have this issue.  I'd like to get it fixed once and for all and probably can with some help from my dad, but it requires getting all of the right parts, etc.

In the picture of the head cover that is held up by the spousal unit (above), it appears that there's a gasket under the head cover.  I can't seem to figure out what part that is when looking over the diagrams.  Suggestions/recommendations on what that part is called or is it even an orderable part?

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Dave on 10/08/13 at 08:04:39


4051464452555A050D0C04340 wrote:
In the picture of the head cover that is held up by the spousal unit (above), it appears that there's a gasket under the head cover.  I can't seem to figure out what part that is when looking over the diagrams.  Suggestions/recommendations on what that part is called or is it even an orderable part?


That red color is the sealant that has not yet been cleaned off after the head cover was removed.  The sealer needs to be removed, the parts cleaned, and new sealler applied before assembly.  I recommend you buy the correct Suzukibond...but others have used RTV gasket products succesfully and saved a few bucks.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by terpfan1980 on 10/08/13 at 15:34:21


6D565B4C5D514A4C575F524D3E0 wrote:
[quote author=4051464452555A050D0C04340 link=1099227295/45#55 date=1381105385]
In the picture of the head cover that is held up by the spousal unit (above), it appears that there's a gasket under the head cover.  I can't seem to figure out what part that is when looking over the diagrams.  Suggestions/recommendations on what that part is called or is it even an orderable part?


That red color is the sealant that has not yet been cleaned off after the head cover was removed.  The sealer needs to be removed, the parts cleaned, and new sealler applied before assembly.  I recommend you buy the correct Suzukibond...but others have used RTV gasket products succesfully and saved a few bucks.[/quote]
Thanks for the clarification. One last clarification, I assume that when it's being applied it just needs to have a bead around the same places it was previously (or as seen in the picture).  In other words, don't be stupid when applying it, just use enough to do the job and no more  (asking from the point of view of someone that was never good at soldering because well, more is always better, right? ;) )

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Dave on 10/09/13 at 05:30:51

A very thin bead is all that is required.  If you looked at the factory job, you saw very little had squeezed out.  The sealing is done by the mating of the surfaces.....not by the goo that squeezes out.  You put in too much sealer and you can also squeeze out stuff into the internal oil passages that feed oil to the cam......and then it will fail.

Nothing screams....."I have been worked on by an amateur" as much as a glob of orange or blue goo sticking out of the seams does.  Don't do this:

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Dave on 10/09/13 at 05:36:45

When applying the sealant you can't do a good job squeezing a bulky tube.  I squeeze the sealant into a plastic disposable syringe, then use the syringe to applly a nice thin bead about the size of a pencil lead.  You can get the syringe at any drug store or medical supply place.  You want one about the size of a cigarette - the barrel should be about the size of the spout on the tube so you can squeeze the sealant in easily.


Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by terpfan1980 on 10/10/13 at 14:47:19


556E6374656972746F676A75060 wrote:
When applying the sealant you can't do a good job squeezing a bulky tube.  I squeeze the sealant into a plastic disposable syringe, then use the syringe to applly a nice thin bead about the size of a pencil lead.  You can get the syringe at any drug store or medical supply place.  You want one about the size of a cigarette - the barrel should be about the size of the spout on the tube so you can squeeze the sealant in easily.

That's a pretty sweet tip and a great way to do the job I would think.  Thanks very much for the suggestion.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Digger on 11/09/13 at 19:06:00


7061767462656A353D3C34040 wrote:
[quote author=556E6374656972746F676A75060 link=1099227295/45#59 date=1381322205]When applying the sealant you can't do a good job squeezing a bulky tube.  I squeeze the sealant into a plastic disposable syringe, then use the syringe to applly a nice thin bead about the size of a pencil lead.  You can get the syringe at any drug store or medical supply place.  You want one about the size of a cigarette - the barrel should be about the size of the spout on the tube so you can squeeze the sealant in easily.

That's a pretty sweet tip and a great way to do the job I would think.  Thanks very much for the suggestion.[/quote]


FYI, lots of RTV products come with a screw-on tip that can be cut to size.  I generally buy Permatex stuff and they come with these tips:


http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/Garage/StrangeTool-RTVEjector1E.jpg

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Serowbot on 11/11/13 at 09:03:50

I'm a naturally messy person... I squeeze a dab onto my finger and spread it...
:-?...

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Henrik on 11/11/13 at 11:38:44

I have just removed the head cover and the plug was realy loose, not so strange that my bike wasleaking oil. But iam wondering if it is best to apply the sealant to the head cover or the head when reinstalling it? Or both? Also iam a bit insecure about how to apply sealant whitout getting it to close to cam bearings, any tips would be great.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Digger on 11/11/13 at 19:21:40


072A213D26241D4F0 wrote:
I have just removed the head cover and the plug was realy loose, not so strange that my bike wasleaking oil. But iam wondering if it is best to apply the sealant to the head cover or the head when reinstalling it? Or both? Also iam a bit insecure about how to apply sealant whitout getting it to close to cam bearings, any tips would be great.


I apply it to the head.  If you apply it to the head cover, you run a chance of getting some goop on the cam chain, etc., as you position said head cover into place.

Apply sparingly and you'll be fine....

IHTH!

Title: Number/Date confusion on the plug
Post by kuri77 on 12/13/13 at 10:45:04

I have already contacted Digger ( who I am not questioning just relating the info for those who want to check the pic facts) who in post 43/44 says that 11145-41B01 is the new plug and shows a new unused one in the bag.  He has a pic of the old one that I presume came from his bike when he replaced it.  This is part 11145-37401.  However, I ordered a plug from a dealer without giving the part number and only the year, 2011.  They gave me the 37401.  I called them on it since Digger and several others including a Suzuki dealer told me that the B model was the newer one.  They said no so I went down there and sure enough the microfiche and the Suzuki EPC listing showed the one they gave me came out for the 2005 or 8 model (can't remember which) and the B model had been on the books for years.  I called another dealer who said they've replaced many over the years and the new one is the B model.  Can anyone clear this up definitively?  From what I gather there are people with both types happily riding leak-free all the time.  Suzuki presumably updated to the non-B model for a reason and I would like to put in the one that has the best chance of me not needing to go in and replace it someday.  Probably both work if put in correctly with the right sealant but since I haven't started the job yet...............

Title: Re: Number/Date confusion on the plug
Post by Digger on 12/17/13 at 21:28:45


534D4A510F0F380 wrote:
I have already contacted Digger ( who I am not questioning just relating the info for those who want to check the pic facts) who in post 43/44 says that 11145-41B01 is the new plug and shows a new unused one in the bag.  He has a pic of the old one that I presume came from his bike when he replaced it.  This is part 11145-37401.  However, I ordered a plug from a dealer without giving the part number and only the year, 2011.  They gave me the 37401.  I called them on it since Digger and several others including a Suzuki dealer told me that the B model was the newer one.  They said no so I went down there and sure enough the microfiche and the Suzuki EPC listing showed the one they gave me came out for the 2005 or 8 model (can't remember which) and the B model had been on the books for years.  I called another dealer who said they've replaced many over the years and the new one is the B model.  Can anyone clear this up definitively?  From what I gather there are people with both types happily riding leak-free all the time.  Suzuki presumably updated to the non-B model for a reason and I would like to put in the one that has the best chance of me not needing to go in and replace it someday.  Probably both work if put in correctly with the right sealant but since I haven't started the job yet...............


kuri,

I've tried 'em both and I've had better luck with the new-style (solid, vice cup-shaped) plug.

Good luck!

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by kuri77 on 12/19/13 at 17:09:21

Guess I'm going with you and the Suzuki dealer then.  41B01 it is.  Thanks, let you know how it turns out.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Jsud04 on 01/01/14 at 12:57:11

I am still trying to wrap my head around the need to remove the bolt that holds the decompression solenoid rocker arm... In every photo it is removed but it doesn't hold the head cover in place and it doesn't interfere with removal. Am I missing something?  

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by verslagen1 on 01/01/14 at 13:00:18


281117060710115256620 wrote:
I am still trying to wrap my head around the need to remove the bolt that holds the decompression solenoid rocker arm... In every photo it is removed but it doesn't hold the head cover in place and it doesn't interfere with removal. Am I missing something?  

I don't remove it.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by NEHokiePokie on 01/15/14 at 16:45:12

I just tried this fix myself and it went really well overall until I reached the reassembly, when one of the bolts snapped while tightening everything down. I roughly followed the tightening pattern posted earlier in this thread, just till all the bolts were snug. I then borrowed one of those click type torque wrenches from Autozone and set it to about half the recommended torque value (so right around 35 in-lbs or just under 3 ft-lbs). I went to tighten one of them down and "snap" it went, maybe cause of the cold or just that it was old. Anyways, I already received the replacement for it.

Here's the problem, I went to remove the broken bolt but it looks like it broke way down in the cylinder head. When looking at Savage_Greg's bolt diagram, the one that I broke is the top left L60 bolt. It also goes down through what I think is one of the case alignment pins. It looks like it's too deep to use an extractor/easy-out. I'm looking for any suggestions as to how to handle this. I don't really want to have to drill it out. Think it would be fine if I just left that bolt out when I put it back together?

I also wasn't sure how much sealant to apply so I took a couple pics before reassembly, hoping that someone could give some insight as to whether it was too much or too little. Since I broke the bolt I have to redo it anyways, let this be a lesson to all.

Thanks for any insight, help, comments, or just plain criticism.

Like I said, hopefully this will also help others who have similar questions/concerns down the road.


http://https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1/1531536_10152599527618298_1568650022_n.jpg

http://https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1512527_10152599527603298_811665035_n.jpg

http://https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/1000265_10152599527613298_1425493962_n.jpg

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by verslagen1 on 01/15/14 at 19:24:30

hard to tell if it's enough, pretty close, if you had left it to set up, then you could tell.  but I certainly would circle every bolt hole to seal it.

I think you're gonna have to remove the head to get at that bolt.  and then you might be able tap it out.  tap with a center punch at what's left of the threads to twist it out.  of course this means a new head gasket.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by yetimeister on 09/02/14 at 15:15:57

torque spec for bolts?

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Dave on 09/03/14 at 07:12:28


5C40514C48404C56514057250 wrote:
torque spec for bolts?


http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1098848534

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Philmh on 12/07/14 at 11:06:44

Ok. So I am ready to replace everything, head bolts all torque down, and I dry fit the plug and it wiggles in the hole.  No good, even with sealant.  My best bet is to spend 5 bucks and buy a new plug so I don't have to do this again.

When I read this thread, a member posted a pic of the part number for the NEW plug yet later on another member goes on about two different plugs and the part numbers without definitively giving the correct part number and seemingly contradicting the prior post for the correct part number for the NEW plug style.

So readers, moderators, and everyone else..... can we correctly define the part number of the new plug and the old plug laid out clearly?  I would like to lay this to rest once and for all.

The part numbers I have are.

11145-41B01. New?

11145-37401.  Old?

Is this correct?

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by HondaLavis on 12/07/14 at 16:38:21

Yes, you are correct.  The "B" part number is the new style.  Improved success is usually found through the newer style plug - it definitely was for me.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by verslagen1 on 12/07/14 at 11:21:31

simply put, both fit and will work.

I would prefer the newer plug because when the old one loosens up it vibrates up and down wearing a groove in the head cover.

of course, if you're not convinced...
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1412889755
http://www.savageriders.com/verslagen/Plug/NewHeadPlug.jpg

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Philmh on 12/25/14 at 12:36:42

So I am FINALLY all ready to put the head cover back on. (Thanks in part to Verslagen and his aftermarket plug. More on that to come at http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1412889755)

I was curious when I am applying my gasket sealant, do I install the plug (the one that is between the head and head cover, not the one that is covering the headbolt access) and then sealant over it or should I put sealant all the way around the plug, then slide it into its groove, and then sealant the head, then assemble?

Another question.  If I am not putting the chrome covers back on.  How important is it to get the pressure from the chroming bolt to hold the head together?  It appears that from the two bolts next to it, that should be enough, but I have never done this before and I am looking for a consensus.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by verslagen1 on 12/25/14 at 13:28:08

Yes apply rtv around the OEM plug and put in place. It's Better to put a bolt there as it's a long way to the next hole

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by verslagen1 on 08/25/15 at 15:13:36

L55 should go right in, or do you mean L70?
http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/HeadPattern01web.jpg

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by ghryx on 01/31/16 at 14:57:59

Ok, feeling like a total noob here (mebbe 'cause I am) - I'm attempting this repair, got the left cover off and went to do the decompression cable and I find myself confused about exactly what I'm supposed to be removing.  The manual says the two philips screws that hold the assembly to the head, but even a cautious attempt is starting to strip the philips socket.  I can't find any specifics on what to do here, in most images/posts it just says 'remove it'.   Before I do something stupid I thought I'd check and make sure I'm understanding this part of the process. Please advise, I feel like I'm missing the painfully obvious.  Dang it. I thought I'd knock this out and take advantage of the crazy 68 degree Cincinnati Feb. 1st.   :P

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by verslagen1 on 01/31/16 at 15:30:42

Although, it might be easier to take the screws off, I don't because when I first did it I didn't have an impact driver.

So loosen the adjustment nuts and back off the bottom one till it comes off the barrow.  Then slip the 10mm wrench under the decomp lever and pry up and pull the cable with the other hand till the barrow comes out of the bracket.  then slip it to the slide to get the cable out.  then disengage the cable from the lever and you're done.

If you leave the top nut alone then it easy to put back together and have the right adjustment.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by buster6315 on 08/21/17 at 21:02:44

Well, the spirit moved me & I replaced the plug (old style).  Thanks to this site, it went pretty well.  Of course now I have to see a chiropractor about my sore right shoulder!  Guess my wrench turning days are coming to an end.  I took it for a ride today after I cleaned up the oily mess on the head & cylinder.  I haven't noticed any leaks, knock-on-wood.  Just a sweet light bike.  My Sportster feels like a real 'hog' after riding the Savage.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Tim12 on 08/26/19 at 10:20:06

Hello everyone complete newb at this so ill do my best to explain what ai did so hopefully someone can so me where i may have gone wrong. so i recently did the plug cap replacement and i thought that everything had gone pretty smoothly until a couple days later I tried to start the bike and nothing happened turns out i had blown a fuse. The yellow number 20 under the seat on the inside... I replaced the fuse tried again and blew it again... so here’s a few things that after reading the whole topic (which I’m now realizing i should have done in the first place) i think i may have done wrong, i never set the bike to TDC, i was following the list and pictures which someone posted and it didn’t mention anything, or could i have adjusted the solenoid when taking it off??  

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Dave on 08/26/19 at 11:16:20

Tim12:

Most likely you pinched and shorted a wire out somewhere.....that would be my guess.

Dave

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Trench781 on 04/29/20 at 23:31:32

[quote author=5A6F787A422B282D1D0 link=1099227295/0#0 date=1099227295]Where does the leak start?

There is a plug/cap in the headcover/camshaft cover, that is right above this cylinder nut.

Okay friends I am about to change this cap to stop the oil leak that is driving me insane. Is there any updated recomendations on which sealant to use for the head cover??

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by andrewmanzano on 06/14/20 at 20:59:12

Which O ring are you referring to?

Also can anyone explain how the stainless screen fits in?

Thanks

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by Roadster on 01/29/21 at 12:26:09

Hi Team Suzuki Savage!

As a newbie here, I just rejoice for being able to do something with the famous head plug leak without dropping the engine down in frame and opening the top and investing on time and new gaskets and also avoiding the associated bloody knuckles and hurting back. The following folk remedy is presented without a whiff of any kind of responsibility from my side - this is just what I did, your circumstances and success will be different. I hope this helps someone - kindly comment anyway!  

In short: I turned the engine so that the exhaust valves were fully open in order to gain some workspace for this job. I replaced the S30* -bolt (see the cylinder head top diagram a couple of pages back in this posting) with M6x60 full-thread bolt and a Nyloc (R) nut and dropped one OD about 20mm washer on the bottom of the famous plug's 'cup' and on top of that, I dropped three OD 20.1mm washers. This washer pile is necessary to re-enforce the otherwise flimsy plug so it stays in form. Then, I tightened the replacement M6x60 bolt down so it now squeezes the plug down to the level of the bottom edge of the plug hole.

This stopped the leak - for now - on my 2004 650LS. Details are here, use of this home remedy is granted on your own discretion and risk:

The fix for this yakuza-supplied plug which nobody in Hamamatsu dared to glue in properly in these thirty years, is well documented and Verslagen's replacement is the way to go.  However, I was reluctant to open the valve top when I took a look at my 2004 head plug with only 3000 miles on the clock. The plug had clearly crawled (as I kind of learned later during the process) about one and a half mm up and there was a very small amount of oil when I wiped the hole plug's area over the forward right cylinder pin bolt. There must be some vacuum up in valve chamber and also maybe the heating - cooling -cycle makes the plug swell and shrink and move up.

My first home remedy idea was to bluntly drill a 5.0mm hole over the leaky plug's center from up and thread a M6x60 etc. bolt there to hold the plug in place but controlling the aluminum chips and dust from drilling and tapping is not quite viable and I would have needed the engine drop and gaskets anyways)

Enter the excellent 'Motorcyle Handyman' -CD files, made available for free here! Thank you very much Mr. DuBois!

By looking at the cylinder valve top cover, I noticed that the hole marked S30* for the exhaust rocker shaft lock is rather close to the famous plug. I could see the edge of the plug after removing the bolt 'S30*' from the top (The rocker shaft seems to stay put with the bolt removed - good news!)

If I can just find a long enough M6 bolt, this may be able to hold the plug down when I turn the bolt down, pushing the plug to be tight? Yes. it looks like this is possible.

Material:

- One 1mm thick washer, with about 20mm outer diameter
- Two or three 1mm thick washers with  ID of 9.2 (and not a hair bigger) and 22.1mm (22.2mm or even 22.3mm I think would work also? I have not tested these - not so hard to test I think if these are what you have - the hole diameter is critical - the washer(s) can of course be blind also without any holes. Old valve shims? 1st one small.
- One M6x60mm bolt with full thread (any hardness, really, mine is regular 4.6 - no markings) You may get away with a M5x50 bolt sans the nyloc nut - you can always file the bolt down in lenth - I just had this M6x60 bolt and wanted to keep things safe for alternatives...
- One M6 Nyloc (R) nut with 1mm thread pitch - the most usual one. See above. Not so hard to try different bolts after the washers are in?
- Original M6 gasket washer from original S30* bolt's neck (to control leaking of oil above the S30* -hole  - may a dab of need silicone if this leaks - mine does not leak - yet)
- Tweezers and / or long-nose pliers
- Some thin cotton? Nylon? thread on long loop may be helpful if you are of the belt-and suspenders -type - or use a pick-up magnet in telescopic arm if you anyway drop the washer in a wrong place.  The valve chamber is quite safe area for parts this big but anyway. You are on your own.
- Long fingers and ob-gyn -hobby helps - the plug hole is quite far from both the valve lash adjustment hole and cylinder head's forward edge.
- Cellphone camera for before, during and after - And don't push the plug too far down; only to the edge of the hole. Mine has a very small threshold: I can just feel the edge of the hole. See the pic.

The plug is just a rubberized metal pressing (in my 2004 at least) with rather flimsy construction. I re-tightened the rocker shaft bolt and turned the crankshaft so that the exhaust valves opened fully.
Now I had some space and I could see into the plug, at least enough to try the idea of just piling some washers in it thus making the plug's cup bottom a bit stronger. I reasoned that the plug's 'cup' is rounded from its bottom like any USPH pot as the picture I took up from near the exhaust pipe seems to suggest this. I tied some thin thread over a 20mm O/D galvanized washer (I have a small telescoping magnet picker, just in case) and by using tweezers, I guided the washer down. By using the loose thread loop, I was able to pull it back out - thus a reversible procedure. The loose thread loop was easy to get rid of after the washers were all in. If the noose had been tight, the removal would not have been so easy. I just wanted to avoid the dropping of the engine and the gasket kit cost and wanted to be careful and able to reverse my dirty deeds - this is a budget build of a well-rusted bike with very nice sounding, low miles engine...
The actual diameter of the plug cup's 'straight' walls I estimated to be 22-23mm. Maybe the hole diameter is 25mm? I found three 1mm thick, galvanized washers with 20.1mm outer diameter and 9.6mm inner diameter. This seemed to be quite close to the actual 'cup's diameter and also with wide enough rim so that the M6 bolt would hit it. I piled three of these 1mm thick washers over the one 1mm thick 20mm washer. This filled the plug's cup and made it suitably stiff to take the push.

I threaded a nyloc-nut high up on my M6x60mm (Thread length 57mm) and added the original washer from S30* -bolt with its rubber gasket in. The gasket surface is not perfert as the thread can leak oil but this seems to work and all is dry - up and down. A M6x50mm screw may work also - this is not so hard to check?
I turned the M6x60 bolt until it reached the washer pile. By carefully turning it, I observed the pile moving down in a straight manner. Good. Now, I reached down to the hole from front of the cylinder top and drove the plug further down. When I passed the edge, there was some oil that seeped through. I was very lucky with this as the plug nicely reversed itself when I loosened the M6x60 bolt up. The plug has shoulders to prevent it from falling down into the hole and this was my advantage. I adjusted the plug's bottom to be just a hair above the hole's edge and locked the bolt in place by tightening the neck nut.

All appears to be tight and dry after several heat-cool -cycles. Watch this space - I will call my bluff if it leaks - then I need the Verslagen plug.

This may very well not be an all-encompassing home remedy for every leaky plug there - If the plug is already too high up to follow the hole'e edges straight with this off-center force, this home-smitheroo will certainly not work but it will only destroy the plug by distorting it. There may also be dirt or deposits between the plug and its hole so that the operation is not possible. But I think that if the plug is not far up, then this would be worth considering in conjunction with the next valve lash check / adjustment?
I suggest that the crankshaft should not be moved without some kind of bolt in the  S30* -hole - things may get hairy with the exhaust rocker out of alignment.

I have had several heat-cool cycles on this home remedy and so far everything is dry above and below. Your mileage may wary as they say.

Please comment!

Cheers!
JJ

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by LS650THUMPER on 03/23/21 at 17:18:51

when replacing the Bolts in the cover, has  anyone replaced the bolt gaskets - o rings, think there are 4 or can the bolts simply go where they are supposed to go .

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by verslagen1 on 03/23/21 at 20:30:10


041B7E7D781C001D05180D1A480 wrote:
when replacing the Bolts in the cover, has  anyone replaced the bolt gaskets - o rings, think there are 4 or can the bolts simply go where they are supposed to go .

there are 6. I'd replace them if they leak.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by LS650THUMPER on 03/24/21 at 15:28:48

ty, looking into fixing leak, I have the 'plug'  , of course parts guy at dealer, only asks if i need anything else,, figured he'd recommend   the 6 for the bolts... 'time to buy parts elsewhere' !!!

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by buster6315 on 07/06/21 at 12:09:22

I looked at a 2009 S40 with 4800 miles.  No mention of this leak.  Is this leak a concern with this year S40?  Thank you!

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by LS650THUMPER on 07/06/21 at 16:27:14

any savage /s40 can get leak, at any miles from what i've seen, bullet proof bike, easy to work on . I've had a 2009 s40 with 34640 miles , had leak, just rode it and sold it after 9 years of riding it ,  and recently had my 02 savage leak sealed at dealer, and which lost the exhaust valve a few weeks later, had bike since 2018 had 31260 miles, just sold whole as is for 100 bucks #noRegrets

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by buster6315 on 07/06/21 at 21:09:49

Thanks for the info!

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by bfone on 10/25/21 at 13:25:30

This is on my 2003 LS650. Started blowing oil into air filter. (lots of oil) Pulled valve cover to find the notorious Plug/Cap. Valve cover was full of oil. Is there a way to tell if cap is bad by looking? How do you remove it? Just pry it out? Just looking it does not appear to be unseated or cracked.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by verslagen1 on 10/25/21 at 14:03:15

Valve cover is supposed to be full of oil.
Blowing oil into the air filter can be from over filling or flooding gas into the crankcase from a bad petcock.
The plug should be tight, if it's leaking oil you'll see it everywhere.
Pry it out or grab it with a pair of channel locks.
I pry it from underneath with a bent metal rod.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by bfone on 10/25/21 at 19:01:52

Thanks for the quick response. A little history. Bike had set for a couple of years. It turned over ok so added gas, charged battery and it started right up. Idled for several minutes and then rode it. About a mile down the road started smelling oil. By time got it back to garage had oil running out of the air filter box and all down left side of engine. Hoping to find a cracked or leaking oil cap. I hope it does not have broken piston ring. Do you know if I can get to piston without removing engine from bike.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by verslagen1 on 10/25/21 at 20:07:23

bad head plug is not going to have oil coming out of the airbox.
if its flowing out of the airbox, then it came from the breather.
which means either you over filled it with oil or gas got in the crankcase.
a bad petcock will flow gas into the cylinder thru the vac line
or you have a bad float valve and the carb flooded.

Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by ThumperPaul on 09/21/22 at 12:19:22

What is the dang purpose of this stupid plug?  It reminds me of a freeze plug.  I noticed mine is leaking today.  I really don’t feel up to the task.  I’ll probably screw something up.  Argh.


Title: Re: Savage "Plug/Cap" Leak
Post by buster6315 on 09/21/22 at 19:30:25

Isn't there a bolt beneath it?  If there is, it's for access to that bolt.

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