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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Technical Documents/Reference >> LS650 Parts that have changed '86 to Present /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1098969517 Message started by Greg_650 on 08/24/04 at 15:12:20 |
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Title: LS650 Parts that have changed '86 to Present Post by Greg_650 on 08/24/04 at 15:12:20 Without any detailed research, I'll throw out the first one. The speedo changed before '92 I believe, but it is interchangeable. |
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Title: Re: Savage Parts that have changed '86 to '05 Post by Kropatchek on 08/24/04 at 15:29:53 Greg, you beat me on that first post. Removed my entry so here is the 2nd post: Lets start what I have found out about differences in parts of the engine. 1996 Introduction of improved starter clutch. One of the 2 idle gears now has a limiter. the gear is wider in dimension so the inside of the alternator cover has a reworked axle bearing Ceck out the picture in this forum: http://www.ls-650.de/community/forum/YaBB.pl/YaBB.pl?board=Allgemein;act ion=display;num=1091041354;start=45#45 That's it for now, will post more when I discover. greetz Kropatchek |
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Title: Re: Savage Parts that have changed '86 to '05 Post by Susan on 08/24/04 at 21:23:17 Just to get all the info into the same topic, this is a repost of 2004 details. The changes made between 2003 and 2004 were very minor and not mechanical. Here is the list of what was new for 2004 in "Suzuki marketing speak": FEATURE LIST: Suzuki 2004 Savage® 650 (LS650P) New
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Title: Re: Savage Parts that have changed '86 to '05 Post by Susan on 08/24/04 at 21:35:41 I'll give it a go for the 2005 but Jon should chime in here since he has one! Here's what I pulled off a dealer site that looks new to me (again in Suzuki marketing speak):
Other things:
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Title: Re: Savage Parts that have changed '86 to '05 Post by Susan on 08/24/04 at 21:38:46 A few random things I remember reading that need to be nailed down:
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Title: Re: Savage Parts that have changed '86 to '05 Post by Mr 650 on 08/25/04 at 03:08:19 1986-1988 - 4 speed years ratios: 1st- 2.214 2nd-1.500 3rd- 1.095 4th- .875 1995-2005 - 5 speed ratios; 1st- 2.333 2nd-1.578 3rd-1.142 4th-.956 5th-.884 drive belt all years -133 teeth Not sure,but I think the LS was still built, just not sold in U.S. 89-94. |
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Title: Re: Savage Parts that have changed '86 to '05 Post by Susan on 08/25/04 at 08:21:56 I seem to remember reading somewhere that the plug had been changed in later years which helped with the plug leak issue but am not sure. Anyone know? |
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Title: Re: Savage Parts that have changed '86 to '05 Post by jendesigner on 08/25/04 at 08:31:07 I believe the plug was new in 2004. I had mine replaced this year with the new designed plug. So far so good. |
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Title: Re: Savage Parts that have changed '86 to '05 Post by Jon on 08/25/04 at 12:22:52 About the tranny... > 4 speed to 5 speed when? The 86, 87 and 88 bikes were 4-speed. The bike was dropped from the USA line after 88 to reappear again in (I think) 96 with a 5-speed. Btw, the 80's bikes had a louder pipe, and my 88 'felt' faster than my 96 and S40 (although top speed seems about the same). The 4-speed was more fun to ride, too, because of the gear spacing and richer jetting--the engine seemed to have more roll-on throttle response (more torque) at low revs. The 5-speed allowed Suzuki engineers to lower emissions output and keep the EPA happy. By adding another gear and shortening up the ratios between 1st and 5th, the engine is kept on the boil more which helps keep the revs out of the low RPM polluting zone. Revs create heat in the top end which improves combustion efficiency. |
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Title: Re: Savage Parts that have changed '86 to '05 Post by Kropatchek on 08/27/04 at 17:06:39 The 5 speed gerbox was introduced in 1991. The headcover plug in 1996 but regardless what you install, the old or new plug still requires sealant which is still NOT in the Suzuki WSM. greetz Kropatchek |
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Title: Re: Savage Parts that have changed '86 to '05 Post by Greg_650 on 08/28/04 at 06:28:34 Kropatchek wrote:
Yep, I still used a small amount of silicone rubber on mine. You can see it in the photo in the other topic. |
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Title: Re: Savage Parts that have changed '86 to '05 Post by Greg_650 on 08/29/04 at 06:39:57 I was able to finally sum up the Suzuki Service Manual with regard to the changes to the carb. The biggest changes form '86 to '04 to the carb are the Main jet, Pilot jet, Needle jet and the Throttle valve. You will also notice that after '95 some jets are not listed because they became non-changeable. Also, there are some European and Canadian models listed but I can't be sure without the "model number" on the carb. http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/215/215131/folders/156326/1207632CarbSpecs01web.jpg |
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Title: Re: Savage Parts that have changed '86 to '05 Post by Savage_Rob on 08/29/04 at 06:48:34 Quote:
I think I know which one this is, Susan. I just did my first oil and filter change on my 98 Savage yesterday and found the drain plug was a 14mm instead of the 17mm that both the owner's manual and the Clymer's claimed it should have been. I wasn't sure if that was a design change or if the previous owner made a substitution though. |
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Title: Re: Savage Parts that have changed '86 to '05 Post by Greg_650 on 08/29/04 at 06:58:14 I know that our '00 and '01 need a 14 MM wrench. |
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Title: Re: Savage Parts that have changed '86 to '05 Post by Kropatchek on 09/12/04 at 03:12:16 Another difference: The brake reservoir on the "pulled-back"and "straight" handle bar are different. The pulled-back handle bar has the connection on the side , while the other one has the connection on the front. Greetz kropatchek |
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Title: Re: Savage Parts that have changed '86 to '05 Post by Greg_650 on 09/12/04 at 03:31:37 Kropatchek wrote:
Cool. I never noticed that and no one that has changed bars has mentioned it. Is it a functional thing or just a simple difference? And let's not forget that you discovered that after 1996 the starter gears were changed too. Here's the pic, again. http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/215/215131/folders/156030/1291272Startergears1web.jpg |
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Title: Re: Savage Parts that have changed '86 to '05 Post by Kropatchek on 09/13/04 at 07:29:27 BTW the brake reservoir, difference only to run the brake line in a fluent maner, i think. ::) Greetz Kropatchek |
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Title: Re: Savage Parts that have changed '86 to '05 Post by Mr 650 on 09/22/04 at 16:20:34 5C16 jet needle: 3 e-clip grooves (late model LS650)specs: 0.118"- in diameter from the c-clip to the start of the taper. 1.450"- length from start of taper to the smallest diameter- 0.100" - in dia. at the little end of taper (base of the cone that forms the point) and the point is about .050" from the point back up to it's base. 2.269 overall lenght from tip to tip/ 0.087-white spacer thickness 5C17 (1986 parts) needle jet specs one e-clip groove 0.118"- in diameter from the c-clip to the start of the taper. 1.450"- length from start of taper to the smallest diameter- 0.100" - in dia. at the little end of taper (base of the cone that After close inspection (under a magnifier and reading glasses), The business end below the c-clip appears to be the same all the way to the tip. The only difference appears to be that the 5C16 has three grooves and the 5C17 only one. The center groove on the 5C16 is in the same location as the 5C17. I have no means to check the i.d. of the X-6 or X-7 needle jets (emulsion tubes) but they appear to be the same piece. |
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Title: Re: Savage Parts that have changed '86 to '05 Post by Greg_650 on 09/24/04 at 02:47:31 klx650sm2002 wrote:
Yes. The '86 -'88 models had a Primary reduction ratio of 1.88 with the gears of 68 and 36. After that the ratio was changed to 1.81 with the gears 67 and 37. Of course the transmission ratios were changed too. http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/215/215131/folders/156030/1243491ClutchAssy01web.jpg |
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Title: Re: Savage Parts that have changed '86 to '05 Post by Greg_650 on 10/12/04 at 03:09:40 I see another change (without going to the showroom). The license plate lamp is black, and there is a Suzuki decal on what used to be a plain fender. I guess that since they removed the backrest, Suzuki wanted to put it "somewhere" Also, notice that the reflector is gone, but it looks like the bracket is unchanged...holes. Why did they do that? http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/215/215131/folders/156030/126658305Different.jpg |
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Title: Re: Savage Parts that have changed '86 to '05 Post by cphilip on 10/13/04 at 08:41:57 Yea more bullet light shaped. Not only are the bars different but the Riser is as well. Sort of a dull finished Aluminum. Appears clear coated over. I think taller riders are going to like these bars. They felt a tad to forward to me. But would have to ride it. Liked the looks of them. And the switches have changed slightly. A passing switch on the right side is there and relocations of size and functions and graphics on them and such on the left. The tank trim all appear stuck on surface. Not reset into the tanks surface and under the clear coat kinda decals like before. Chrome applicaide tank ones and like clear jewels stuck on the side covers. All look removable to me. Not certain. There are some black plastic trim thingies on the front forks. I have not these on my 2001. There is a small Suzuki symbol on the triple tree. The seat looks a tad wider. Not certain if thats for certain or not. It looks rather stunning in the Pearl White. |
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Title: Re: Savage Parts that have changed '86 to '05 Post by cphilip on 10/15/04 at 18:23:49 cphilip wrote:
It was told to me that these are lower fork seal shield. Designed to keep bugs and road grime/grit off the leading edge of those seals so they will not get dragged into the seal when the fork compresses and chew em up. Apparently a major cause of lower fork seal leaks. A simple plastic shroud is now there to help that issue and prevent seal damage. Keep you fork tubes clean folks! Wipe em down after each run.... |
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Title: Re: Savage Parts that have changed '86 to '05 Post by woodworker on 03/02/05 at 07:16:04 Greg_650 wrote:
The original Savages have the decompression solenoid and lever |
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Title: Re: Savage Parts that have changed '86 to '05 Post by slavy on 03/08/05 at 07:07:42 Also the "Old style - pre 95" and the "new style-after 95" bikes have different el. components. Even if the color coding and the # of wires is the same, the plugs don't fit. Yes, the pre95 bikes have decompressor solenoid. If You pish the starter button and You hear a knock and a second latter the bike cranks , the first thing You hear is the solenoid , retracting the decompressor cable. Also all the 4 gear Suzukis, that I had and worked on, had a slipping clutch problem, so I had to change the plates and for the pease of mind to shim the springs/more preload/. |
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Title: Re: Savage Parts that have changed '86 to '05 Post by bentwheel on 04/02/05 at 15:41:57 The 1986 model has only 4 shock spring preload settings as opposed to the more common 5 settings. |
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Title: Re: Savage Parts that have changed '86 to '05 Post by Pascal on 05/03/06 at 02:18:01 Greg_650 wrote:
Is it possible to install the new startergears in an old crankcase? I read somewhere that the kickback can damage not only the gears but also the crankcase (then the engine is total loss I suppose). As a preventive measure I would like to "upgrade" to the new gears (which seem to have some clutch mechanism to avoid overstress on the gears). Has anybody done this? or even considered it? Pascal |
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Title: Re: Savage Parts that have changed '86 to '05 Post by Kropatchek on 05/03/06 at 02:28:01 It has been done before. Check the German forum http://www.ls-650.de. Search for "anti-klack". What I recall is that the generator cover has a different partnumber. Check the illustrations at http://www.ronayers.com When you use the "old" , pre 1996 generator cover it has to be reworked. One of the bosses that support the axle has to be made 13mm shorter. I have installed an electronic device that operates the decompression solenoid at shut-off. Can sent you the wiringdiagram if you're interested . Greetz Kropatchek ;D |
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Title: Re: LS650 Parts that have changed '86 to Present Post by steelwolf on 06/15/06 at 18:39:49 The mirror rods from the old flat bar are longer/flatter than the mirror rods on the buckhorns I believe. The Savage on the front of the Clymer manual has the flat bar and the mirrors are way out towards the ends of the bars. I put my mirrors and mounts from my 96 on a stock flat bar and they are mostly up rather than out. I can hardly even see behind me. |
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Title: Re: LS650 Parts that have changed '86 to Present Post by iceracer on 03/14/12 at 12:38:25 What year did they introduce the quick cancling turn signial sw. ?? |
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Title: Re: LS650 Parts that have changed '86 to Present Post by verslagen1 on 03/14/12 at 14:34:19 If you mean the push in to cancell feature... my '96 has it, my '88 doesn't. |
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Title: Re: LS650 Parts that have changed '86 to Present Post by slickiverson on 02/11/14 at 17:58:49 Has there been any changes on the starter clutch gear (the big one) over the years? |
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Title: Re: LS650 Parts that have changed '86 to Present Post by verslagen1 on 02/11/14 at 20:36:59 6A75707A72706F7C6B6A7677190 wrote:
2012...12600-24831 2000...12600-24831 1996...12600-24831 1986... Appears to have been changed in '96 but is interchangeable. |
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Title: Re: LS650 Parts that have changed '86 to Present Post by slickiverson on 02/12/14 at 19:40:31 Dont you mean '86? I bought a starter clutch gear on ebay. It said in the sales ad that it would fit my LS650 '87. Part no. 12600-24831 I received the gear last week, but it is smaller than the old gear in my engine. 564552534C4147454E11200 wrote:
2012...12600-24831 2000...12600-24831 1996...12600-24831 1986... Appears to have been changed in '96 but is interchangeable.[/quote] |
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Title: Re: LS650 Parts that have changed '86 to Present Post by verslagen1 on 02/12/14 at 20:03:28 5D42474D4547584B5C5D41402E0 wrote:
The fishe showed it only as an assembly, meaning that part number is several parts. The outside would have to be the same to be interchangeable. And all years from '86 to '95 showed the same number. So was it the inside that was different? You only bought the big gear and it didn't fit? |
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Title: Re: LS650 Parts that have changed '86 to Present Post by slickiverson on 02/12/14 at 20:55:09 This is the sales ad: http://www.ebay.com/itm/380768946437?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649 I haven't got hold of the flywheel puller yet, so it is difficult to measure. I don't know if it fits on the shaft, but the old starter clutch gear is about 50mm (give or take) bigger in perimeter than the new starter clutch gear. Old starter clutch gear - 80 teeth New starter clutch gear - 73 teeth 33203736292422202B74450 wrote:
The fishe showed it only as an assembly, meaning that part number is several parts. The outside would have to be the same to be interchangeable. And all years from '86 to '95 showed the same number. So was it the inside that was different? You only bought the big gear and it didn't fit?[/quote] |
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Title: Re: LS650 Parts that have changed '86 to Present Post by verslagen1 on 02/13/14 at 12:11:14 736C69636B69766572736F6E000 wrote:
While not certain, I would have to suspect they sent you the wrong part. The change in gear size would require a change in location of the pinion gear. And I don't think the parts fishe would indicate it's possible by striking out the old p/n and listing the new next to it. One thing to note is that 12600-24831 is a generic p/n rather than a bike specific p/n. I've noticed in the bay of fleas, that quite often burgman parts are captured in my search net. |
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Title: Re: LS650 Parts that have changed '86 to Present Post by S-P on 02/13/14 at 19:24:46 5A495E5F404D4B49421D2C0 wrote:
Yep. I ordered a complete set of head bolts for an Savage 650 on Ebay and got a set of Kawasaki 650 head bolts. It will cost more to ship them back than they cost to buy. :( |
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